IT IS A CRIME. PERIOD. A VERY SERIOUS CRIME!

[Skraxx]

A slew of news organizations have now confirmed that this morning President Trump called Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) and asked him to convince the state legislature to overturn the results of the election. Kemp refused. (Trump makes weird heroes.) We need to understand that these are literally crimes. I don’t mean moral lapses or things that are wrong. They’re crimes. If I call up someone at the Board of Elections in New York and try to convince them to change the vote numbers or throw away ballots, that’s a crime. I would certainly be charged with a crime. Their saying no doesn’t absolve me of the crime. It’s no defense. The higher up you are on the totem pole the graver a crime it becomes because your chances of success are far greater. Again, these are crimes.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/this-is-a-crime

This is a very serious, very clear crime. There's no "maybe". There's no "bordering" on criminal conduct. It's clearly, seriously criminal and it needs to be shouted from the rooftops by anyone with any voice.

[malaise]

1. Get thee to the greatest page

I am still in a state of stunned incredulity at the way in which this is not being discussed as such - it is a very serious crime.
Lock him up!

[BigmanPigman]

73. Keith Olbermann did his show about this today.

Keep committing more state crimes, fucking moron. No self pardons will help you out there. Same goes for Lindsey.

[malaise]

74. KO nailed it

[superpatriotman]

2. There's plenty of crimes surrounding hair furor

But no one to do any goddamn thing about them

[DENVERPOPS]

35. They are all acting like

they have already won the election, and running it like the Tyranny they have been striving to establish.
Screw the Constitution, Screw the Rule of Law, Screw the Democracy, Screw the citizens.............

And we still have what?, 50 days to go????????

[Cha]

38. Because of the GD Senate.. that needs to

Change.

[MyOwnPeace]

67. You got THAT right, Cha!

"MITCH the BITCH" gotta' go! I've said SO many times that HE is the man behind the curtain pulling the strings - HE is "da' MAN," not IQ45. On his nod BunkerBoy would be out of OUR White House so fast, and if he was really stewing in his shell, all of IQ45's spawn would already be in jail.

DAMN HIM!!!!!

[DENVERPOPS]

70. Putin is having the time of his life

You know those kids trucks that they operated with their little remote control box?

Putin has one of those transmitter boxes, and he has shoved receivers up Trump and McConnell's butts and he is just using the joy stick on it to get them to do whatever he thinks will complicate things so he can destroy the U.S. and Democracy.........

Neither Trump or McConnell have anywhere near the IQ it would take to run this hourly shit show 24/7/365.

By the way, has anyone, since Trump's election, heard word one from Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc???????? Strangely Quiet don't you think?????

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. It is a crime. Apparently in a post here, it noted Harry Reid couldn't bring himself to call it so.

We are in an odd period where the words should be used (lies, crimes) are watered down so as to "not upset the other side or make us look partisan".

Well, FUCK THAT. Call it what it is.

[Skraxx]

4. I Know, I Saw That, And I Love Harry

But as I said in that thread, he's being way to generous and kind here. The ONLY way to push back on this is to call it what it is. Blatant, serious, criminal conduct in broad daylight.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. these long time congresspeople served at a different time. They can't seem to take their minds to

where we now find ourselves at....at all of our peril.

[BComplex]

69. You nailed it. They played nice for so long that we've lost our damned democracy!!

[OldBaldy1701E]

77. Yet another reason why

we have to enact term limits. A 'career congressperson' is just another way of saying 'new nobility'. No one should be able to entrench themselves in our government like some of these people have. No one should be able to create and run a cabal while 'serving their country'. And, no one should be able to get richer while holding such offices. We let this happen. We need to stop it. NOW. Term limits. NOW.

[c-rational]

34. +1 Agreed.

[malaise]

48. THIS

It is a crime

[wnylib]

65. I just read an article at Salon

that says that avoiding the appearance of partisanship right now is exactly what we should NOT be doing.

The article was an interview with Ruth Ben-Ghiat, professor of history and Italian studies at NYU. She was discussing her book about how authoritarians gain control in democracies and destroy them. The book title is Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present. She says that Italians in government did the same thing in regard to avoiding partisanship and trying to stay above the fray, which Mussolini took advantage of to gain power.

According to Ben-Ghiat, instead of waiting for Republicans to denounce Trump's behavior, Dem leaders need to go public in calling out Trump for what he is doing. Not in a complaining way, but firmly and strongly. They need to state bluntly that Trump's pressure on governors to overturn the votes in their states is illegal, unAmerican, anti democracy, and amounts to an authoritarian coup attempt.

[Nexus2]

68. At this point, it does seem like Trump could shoot someone in middle of Main Str. at noon

and not only wouldn't lose any supporters, it wouldn't even be called a murder but, at worst, something like a preemptive execution.

[Hoyt]

5. Suspect it is a crime, but probably one of those like Mueller let

trump’s boys and Kush off because they were too stupid to possess the requisite intent.

[thenelm1]

25. This fool is surrounded by lawyers and if he's too stupid to listen to them and take their advice,

then ignoring same is done at his own peril.

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" or something along those lines. This is something I've heard throughout my life, particularly as regards traffic laws - and likely applies to any and all laws. Being an arrogant, dumb SOB isn't and should never be an excuse for breaking the law. Particularly for a president. It's the in the frikkin oath he swore to for Pete's sake.

[BadgerMom]

32. Would Obama have been treated leniently?

We know he would not have been. If excuses are being made, let them be by others. I’ll shout from the rooftops that it is a crime.

[Newest Reality]

6. I am...

I am flummoxed by the carte blanche this President is being given in every respect. He knows or thinks he can get away with it, period.

If he didn't then he either would be more secretive, (which I believe may be the case already) or would be far more limited in his range of actions.

Why this is is a mystery, the Senate aside.

[onethatcares]

8. man, do I agree with you

How can almost 40 percent of the country cheers the ass on. Is it drugs? hypnotism? genetics? FFS, it's insane.

[Newest Reality]

9. I am going to assume:

All the above

There is something to "trance" induction, as well. Some people are very susceptible to it and I think he found them.

[Skraxx]

10. Yup, It's Mass Trance State

It is a death cult. For real. It's how cults work, it's how Nazism worked. The leader taps deeply into the subconscious of his followers and through certain trigger words/symbols/icons can trigger a mass trance state. The followers are easily manipulated into the state through the manipulation of deep seeded trauma that was never resolved. These people are ALL traumatized by abuse and can be induced into a trance state by their chosen leader.

[onethatcares]

14. it's definitely some

weird shit, whatever it may be.

[Skraxx]

15. It's How Cult's Work

It's how Nazism worked. The leader taps deeply into the subconscious of his followers and through certain trigger words/symbols/icons can trigger a mass trance state. The followers are easily manipulated into the state through the manipulation of deep seeded trauma that was never resolved. These people are ALL traumatized by abuse and can be induced into a trance state by their chosen leader.

[onethatcares]

21. thank you

but wrapping my head around 70 million people having been abused and then throwing themselves to an autoritarian blows my mind but along with the reduction in education/critical thinking/and parenting it's pretty obvious.

[fierywoman]

36. This.

[Skraxx]

51. Yes, It's Difficult To Wrap You're Mind Around, In Fact, It's a Mindblowing Realization!

It really is. It blows my mind to see it happening, real time. But this is what's happening and we need to realize it, because you have to name it, and know what it is, and understand what's truly happening, before you can actually fight it.

[summer_in_TX]

72. A Trump follower who attended a rally

was ecstatic afterwards, describing an amazing physical rush. She took that feeling as a confirmation that Trump was special.

[thenelm1]

31. Utter rank stupidity and ignorance - it's the only rational explanation I can think of.

All those years of book learnin' didn't make a dent or even leave a scratch, apparently, for way too many of these folks.

[Skraxx]

52. It's Actually A Deeper Phenomenon based in Psychosocial Dynamics

Yes, ignorance is a part of it, but it's more than that. It is an induced, mass hypnotic state the circumvents the part of the mind that deals with rational thought. It's a short circuit that triggers subconscious motives, immune to reason in traumatized psyches. Think PTSD on a shared, mass scale that triggers a mass hypnotic state.

[Newest Reality]

55. Plus...

We tend to paint with a broad brush based on images and stories the media presents.

I bet, like me, you may have a "picture" that comes to mind for MAGAts et al. Of course, the numbers of really loyal followers are probably only a portion of the people who voted for Trump.

I think there are other issues that people voted on, believe it or not and not all of those people are even aware of anything beyond the superficial issues they see presented on the media that they watch.

Also, as a side note, what used to be called propaganda with its negative connotations we now tend to call conspiracy theories and there is not much difference except now we do have a term that gives us a handle on the phenomena.

[Skraxx]

62. That's True Too, To a Degree, A Large Portion of the Truly Uninformed

Treat politics like a sport and vote accordingly. My dad was a GOP fan, so I'm a GOP fan and that's it. They can do no wrong.

[steve2470]

75. he knows he can get away with it for 4 reasons

1- He knows we Democrats won't impeach him with only 46 days left in his term.

2- His good buddy Barr runs the DOJ, who would bring any federal charges

3- His buddy Kemp runs the state of GA, who might bring any state charges

4- There is a good possibility that Biden's DOJ will not pursue this, citing the almost-mythical "need to move on"

[dalton99a]

7. Along with all the other shit he has done since his impeachment.

[ashredux]

12. Yes....that's all...just Yes...

[11 Bravo]

13. Barr will get right on it.

I fear that the abject criminality of the Trump administration may take decades to eradicate.
And it starts with the "Don't indict him, let us heal the country" crew.

[Lock him up.]

60. The House should do something, but...

... it seems we have more urgent things to do (pandemic relief) and we can't chew gum and walk at the same time.

Go figure.

Or we're now numb to the hair furor's long, never ending crime spree? (I heard nobody mention the Hatch Act violations for months!)

[mushroomhunter]

78. emoluments ?

self-dealing enrichment - Maybe Scotland will get him for something, we can only hope.

[Blue Owl]

16. Let's see some heads rolling

We must set an example otherwise every future election could be muddied up the same way... please let's not set that pattern...

[Ferrets are Cool]

17. And yes, NOTHING will be done to this criminal for this crime...

I am hopeful that he will be convicted of crimes after he is out of office and sent to jail, but to be honest, I will not hold my breath.

[William Seger]

18. If it *wasn't* a crime, we really need to fix that

... and a lot of other things that Trump's corruption has exposed.

[Kablooie]

19. But he will pardon himself so expects to be able to get away with it.

And it will be one more case of the deep state frustrating his efforts to regain a free and fair election which he obviously won.
More propaganda fodder to drown his followers in.

[bluestarone]

41. THAT is the problem as i see it! (i believe the crime IS a federal crime so yea he can be pardoned)

Somehow it has to be stopped BUT HOW? (without the senate rethugs we have nothing)

[shanti]

47. Exactly

He has no limits now, with a pardon pending, even if he doesn't do it himself, and has Pence do it. He can and will do ANYTHING.

[kentuck]

20. There is no need to sit up. waiting for the Republicans to ask for him to be impeached.

That likely is not going to happen.

[Marie Marie]

22. At this point, has he done anything of note that didn't border on or cross the

line into criminal? This man is a walking, talking crime.

[demigoddess]

23. everyone knows he commits many crimes because he can pardon himself for the

rest of his life. All he has to do is write it out and sign it until the day he dies. presidents can do that, right?

[Karadeniz]

28. Nope.

[Bayard]

42. Not according to Constitutional scholar, Lawrence Tribe

"Laurence Tribe, a Harvard Law School constitutional professor; Richard Painter, a White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush; and Norman Eisen, a White House ethics lawyer under President Barack Obama agreed with Justice Department guidelines.

They said that the Constitution gives the president the power to act as a judge in another person's criminal case as he sees fit. It also allows him to pardon anyone at anytime, as long as the crime is a federal offense. But it does not give him the power to make such decisions regarding his own actions.

"The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment or removal," they wrote in a 2017 Washington Post op-ed. "It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision makes no sense if the president could pardon himself."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/02/can-trump-pardon-himself-can-pardons-reversed-power-explained/3792550001/

Also on Lawrence last night:
https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/tribe-any-argument-that-trump-can-pardon-himself-would-be-incompatible-with-the-constitution-97099845712

[demigoddess]

83. forgot

[regnaD kciN]

24. Technically, I'm not sure...

It may be outrageous, and an offense against the spirit of democracy, like so much else Trump and the Republicans have done, but is it strictly illegal? Encouraging or extorting someone to commit a crime is, likewise, a crime in and of itself, but it appears that the governor of Georgia has the right to call the legislature back into session for that purpose. Similarly, whether the state legislature can vote at this time to award electors regardless of the prior election result is an open question that would likely have to be decided by the SCOTUS (and, even if they decided in favor of it, that decision could still be disregarded by Congress in its certification), but it is clearly not "illegal" in the sense of being against written law. In this case, the "remedy" would be for the courts to rule that the naming of Trump electors was not valid, but not that the legislators should face prosecution for doing so.

OTOH, there remains the matter of bribery. Even if the act isn't illegal in itself, bribing an official to make a legal decision in one's favor is a crime. However, for that to be prosecuted, there needs to be clear evidence of an offer of a concrete benefit in exchange for the decision. And that would require that Trump be stupid enough to come out and make such an undeniable offer (and, although Trump isn't very smart, he's unlikely to be that dumb), and for Kemp to have recorded the conversation or held it via speakerphone in front of witnesses, which I very much doubt happened. There's a reason why bribery is so hard to prosecute; you really need solid evidence that most perpetrators are careful enough to not provide.

[kentuck]

29. Also, wouldn't it matter whether or not the evidence was factual?

If the reason was justified, then the Governor could call back the Legislature, I suppose? But not just for anything, without factual evidence, could they? They can't say all the fraudulent voters had mustard on their neckties so there, they had to be disqualified? There would need to be credible evidence to do something so drastic, I would think?

I have not yet seen any evidence from the Trump side? It's a clown show.

[SayItLoud]

26. Federal crime; he will be pardoned. State crime? NT.

[Karadeniz]

27. Joyce Vance was on this morning, saying it doesn't look good, but we can't rush to judgment. I think

After all the GA election interference, rushing doesn't apply.

[0rganism]

30. time for impeachment #2

at this point i don't care what the senate does
impeachment is the only remedy for what happened here

[yaesu]

44. This needs to happen ASAP &, though the law is murky on Senate participation,

I think being under another impeachment would stop him from issuing pardons.

[Wawannabe]

33. Most especially!

Since
1) He is the pResident of the US
And
2) He is the LOSING candidate!

WTAFF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Brainfodder]

37. Slap it on the mighty big list of naughty things he is guilty AF of?

Comes overdue I dunno, 1/21/21?

Santa or was it Satan is not pleased?

[napi21]

39. It IS definitely a serious crime! Severe penalties! DT, Rudy, et al can commiserate in

their adjoining cells!

[crimycarny]

40. It's a con

Look at the timing...right before Trump’s rally. The sole purpose of that call was MONEY. Trump knows Kemp can’t overturn the election, he made the call KNOWING it would get a lot of media attention. Red meat for his base right before the rally which means donations flowing into his “election fraud” PACs.

Trump knows the GOP won’t hold him accountable so he had no worries about the call to Kemp being made public, in fact that was his intent. And he is laughing all the way to the bank while our Democracy and faith in our elections get trashed underfoot.

[Poiuyt]

43. Isn't this similar to what Lindsey Graham tried to do?

[DENVERPOPS]

71. Exactly

around a month and a half more of this extreme shit show. What's next.........

[Kid Berwyn]

45. It's called treason.

He is not doing what a President is supposed to do:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

He is breaking that oath, which is not just dereliction of duty and criminal incompetence, he betrays the Constitution willfully. That is treason.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

46. And he knows he can get away with it.. because we won't do anything

[Kid Berwyn]

49. That's how bullies get too big for their britches.

And turn into dictators.

This ass clown is so far past being held to account, he thinks he can get the rest of the world to go along.

He can issue all the pardons he can Sharpie, he is exposed for the traitorous crazy shithouse rat he is.

[samsingh]

50. i completely agree

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

53. Isn't it a state crime?

If so, just send the sheriff over to his rally and arrest his fat ass. The protections he enjoys are due to a federal memo; they shouldn't limit actions enforcing state laws.

[brooklynite]

54. I have do doubt about Trump's ethics but...how is it a crime?

The State Legislature is vested by the US Constitution with deciding how to appoint GA's Elector's. Unless the GA Constitution says something about it, the Legislature would have the legal ability (pending the Governor's signature) to change that process at any time.

[Boogiemack]

56. It will take a class action civil case to find him guilty of unpardonable crimes

And either jail him or totally bankrupt him. Surely someone's rights have been violated and the trauma caused by his dereliction of duty with respect to COVID19 ought to mean something.

[spooky3]

57. Isn't Lindsey Graham responsible for the same thing? Nt

[Hotler]

58. I agree. And may I add, an attempted coup is also a crime. It's been awhile

since I heard the phrase;"No one is above the law.". And I have yet to hear Joe say it since the election.

[riversedge]

59. k and R

[sarchasm]

61. k-n-r

[BobTheSubgenius]

63. If a person soliciting such election crimes is high up the totem pole,

not only is the chance of success probably greater, but said solicitor is also talking to more and more powerful people, who could effect greater and greater results.

[lordsummerisle]

64. k&r n/t

[speaknow]

66. Well the answer is simple

The Dems in Congress don't yell enough. Ask yourself this
how can a criminal pardon a criminal That POS raised
207 mil when nobody has money? Where did that money come
from?

[Hotler]

79. They better bring on some junkyard dog bark and bite or,

we going to continue to get our asses handed to us. And I'm tired of playing nice.

[uponit7771]

76. What exact state or federal law did Putin's Whore break this time?

[Smackdown2019]

80. King Donald Funking Dump

Dictators rule by threats.

Kings rule by having support of their people; if that support of the people erodes, monarchs may end like the Russian revolution.

Democratic leaders are selected by the people, where the people put their trust into the candidates they back. If people vote a elected official out, people spoke.

[TigressDem]

81. LOCK HIM UP. Our turn to say that, right? LOCK HIM UP!!

BUY IT ON ETSY

https://images.app.goo.gl/rBaPE9oPHevQui3Y9


OR ALAMY

https://images.app.goo.gl/3yB996jf3xm7DVkY8



CAFE EXPRESS

https://images.app.goo.gl/UMx4w2MpdbkFkUyFA

[UCmeNdc]

82. This is a very serious, very clear crime. There's no "maybe". Donald Trump broke the law.

Trump called Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) and asked him to convince the state legislature to overturn the results of the election. Donald Trump broke the law.