The media has done what we've been saying it would do to create a horse race out of a slaughter.

[porphyrian]

Stop. Freaking. Out.

There were two candidates on stage last night. One appeared to be a smirking, condescending, disrespectful asshole. The other appeared to be a President of the United States of America.

Chill. We got this motherfucker.

[graham4anything]

1. YUP!

Plus a zillion.

[porphyrian]

24. Thanks. n/t

[bigtree]

2. so many judgments being made about esoterics and style

___________________

. . . damn right, critics on the left are buying into the media's desire to make a horse race out of a slaughter; all based on superficial and non-substantive judgments about both candidates' performances. Either the substance was important enough for critics to either reject or defend; either highlight or ignore; or they should just come out and say that there's something ultimate redeeming and worth defending about Romney's presentation. All that loyal dems can do is point to the superficial; lest they give credence to Romney's bullshit. It's a fine line, though between declaring the President a failure and elevating something or the other that Romney represented in that debate.

[porphyrian]

4. I think the President's response was likely genius. It will become more apparent in the coming days.

What bothered me was the number of Democrats who had given up on the President before the debate even began. It felt like they wanted him to lose and for no one to enjoy our success to date. They can give up their hope, but they can't have mine.

[bigtree]

8. 'They can give up their hope, but they can't have mine.'

I like that, porphyrian. Don't you let them take away your hope. You own it.

[oldbanjo]

25. Your right, I watched Msnbc

and didn't like what I was seeing, only the "Rev" was on Obama's side after the debate and his comments were correct.

[porphyrian]

27. I'm wondering if this is maybe a race thing white people don't get.

I'm white, but I grew up in Florida. I didn't have a whole lot of black friends, but half the people I worked with were black, so I always got the black side of issues. White people outside of the South don't, for the most part. I'm not saying that they are racist (necessarily), just that they are not sensitive to things that black people are always thinking about, like the race baiting before the debate and the attempt to make President Obama look like an angry black man during it. I don't know.

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

51. Ditto all of that

[treestar]

31. Yes. Rmoney did not follow procedure and he said things that were inaccurate or inconsistent

How can that be "winning?" The pundits are a disgrace.

[LondonReign2]

62. You can blame pundits all you want

but VOTERS are the ones repsonding to spot polls saying the President had a poor night.

Fortunately he still has control of the race and I have no doubt he will close this thing out. But last night's performance was not helpful.

[treestar]

63. Those polls mean nothing

The swing state polls are hardly going to reverse overnight due to the perceptions of the constantly picky and dissatisfied. Being a good liar should not be stated to be a good thing. These pundits are an absolute disgrace. Hopefully nobody listens to them after this. They've shown their true values.

[Tigress DEM]

3. Robme. Your Presidential nominee. Do we really need a crack head in the White House?

OK, so he was probably on speed. Or just so completely full of himself that he's buying his own lies and propaganda.

[porphyrian]

6. I'm sorry, what? I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or insulting me. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

13. A lot of people wondered if Robme was drugged up. No one thought that about Obama.

It's like when someone's crazy relative just goes off, how do you expect the sane people in the room to hold an intelligent discourse?

[porphyrian]

15. Ah, OK, right. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

18. Sorry if it seemed weird. I hate liars with a passion and I'm still punchy.

[porphyrian]

20. It's all good. I'm still drinking coffee.

[WI_DEM]

5. I know your point is a good one, but Obama really didn't help.

It could be said that the MSM would have called Romney the winner anyway, but a tougher Obama taking on Romney could have changed a lot of the narrative we are hearing today from DEMOCRATS.

[gkhouston]

7. A "tougher" Obama would have been pigeonholed as Angry Black Man. n/t

[porphyrian]

16. My thought. n/t

[treestar]

32. Amen. The so called leftist pundits could have spent the evening

attacking Rmoney. No, they attacked Obama instead.

[porphyrian]

9. Contrary to what the media has been saying, everything has not been riding on this debate.

Record numbers of votes have already been cast. Romney's team has been setting the President up to look like an angry black man and he consciously denied them that. How many people are really going to change their vote based on that debate? You? I would say almost no one. The undecideds left didn't even watch it, they will wait and see what others say about it. Every clip of Romney has him looking like the guy everyone hated in school, but didn't want to challenge because of how rich he was. The President did not do what many of us would have done, but most of us are not qualified to be President.

[plethoro]

14. A tougher Obama may have spurred racial tensions for him being too

disrespectful of a white man (sic). Obama was doing reconnaissance, and could not do that in the middle of a shouting match. Obama did lose, but that loss was partially accomplished by Jim Lehr not being much of a debate moderator. But who got swayed to the other side? Not many I would guess. However, should this be repeated, it may give a few people second thoughts. What bothers me the most is not the debate, but that I am not hearing more outrage this morning about some of the things Romney suggested last night. Cutting deductions, leaving military spending untouched, destroying the poor and elderly... Also, I do not agree that Obama should not have used the 47 per cent Romney mistake last night because it had already been "chewed on".

[porphyrian]

17. I'm not convinced that President Obama lost that debate.

He was the only one who looked like a President on that stage.

[plethoro]

22. It will take a couple of days to see what the aftereffect of the debate is. Challengers usually win

the first debate.

[durablend]

42. How many debates did Kerry win

Look where that went...

[porphyrian]

43. Another good point. Very few minds were changed on who to vote for by this debate. n/t

[Mc Mike]

48. Agreed. It's all viewed through the corporate mass-media filter.

TPM did 2 pieces of analysis of CNN's debate take. They covered CNN's John Berman 'fact-checking' Romney's $5 trillion dollars in 'closed-loopholes' claim, where Berman 'checks' by saying 'if you take him (Romney) at his word', he has a way to pay for his tax cuts for the rich, so the claim that Romney has no way to pay for the $5 trillion tax cut is false. And TPM linked to CNN's 'snap poll' of the debate, which 'showed viewers think Romney won', where the sampling appears to be devoid of anyone who isn't a Southern white person over 50 years old.

The debate tape compilation of Romney continually talking over Lehrer, refusing to shut up or concede that his time is up, shows mass media's magic debate moderation deference. The repug candidate, who answered a total of 3 questions to his press pool during his disastrous 'foreign policy tour', is taking it to the press (the debate moderator), playing smash-mouth on the media for the edification of his yahoo followers. He usually is afraid to answer questions from the media, is much more comfortable telling millionaire backers what he truly thinks. But media must maintain debate decorum, unlike the typically weak repug candidate. The same 'level playing field' that promoted appearances of competence and competitiveness for Reagan, Poppy, Quayle, Perot, Stockdale, Shrub, McCain, Palin, is now being used for lame and lyin romney-ryan.

He gets caught telling the truth to his rich buddies, then debate media lets him tell simplistic lies aggressively for his rank-and-file followers, who understand power-dynamics in a way that even toddlers do. Then those unwashed masses proudly crow about their candidate's performance, and CNN will do a poll that shows the repugs' craven candidate 'dominated the debate'. Those rank-and-file fools will now be encouraged to loudly let us know their one-line take aways from this debate. That prospect isn't too intimidating for our rank-and-file, and the campaign is long used to executing triple-bank shots in the media to get around media's systemic problems.

Re Syria and Turkey, Turkey's military propensity to roll over international borders can't have escaped the attention of Syria's gov or the amorphous armed groups that are trying to overthrow it. Someone in Syria fired first anyway, wonder who it was.

[porphyrian]

50. Agreed, and I wonder, too. n/t

[Mc Mike]

57. GOP SOB's SOP. n t.

[porphyrian]

59. Ha! n/t

[Mc Mike]

60. Cribbed from Franken.

[Selatius]

10. Of course the media would do that. They get higher ratings in a close race.

And the higher the ratings, the greater the profit margins. There is a self-interest in ensuring the whole contest doesn't flat line as far as profitability goes.

If that means going soft on Romney's lies, then so be it. The board of directors want their profit margins and bonus checks.

Having said that, if Obama wants to win over the mushy middle, he NEEDS to at least appear as decisive as he is right. Romney got decisive and aggressive nailed down. He just had to abandon the truth to get that goal accomplished.

[porphyrian]

11. The President didn't look weak or indecisive, he just didn't meet everyone's expectations of...

...taking Romney out. I believe there are a number of reasons for it; he was being set up to appear to be an angry black man and he was being baited by Romney all night. I think the genius of the President's performance will be seen in the coming days.

The news just said Turkey has attacked Syria, so we should see the President acting very Presidential any minute now.

[Selatius]

12. I didn't think Obama came off as too weak.

You're right on Obama not taking Romney into the woodshed in the first ten minutes.

I think a lot of people were expecting that. That's a very high threshold to meet, and admittedly, Obama didn't meet that goal, but you're never supposed to fight in the arena your enemy sets up for you.

However, I still think Obama is in the better position. He still has command of the truth. Romney lost that like a cowboy giving up on breaking a bronco.

I just think he might wanna tweak how decisive he may appear by being on guard for Romney's aggressive style and at least just defend one's toes from being stepped on. He disrespected Obama and the moderator by talking over them. Something could be done to prevent that or at least mitigate any perceived loss out of that.

[porphyrian]

19. Well, I think the next Presidential debate may go a little differently than this one.

The Obama team has been pretty damn clever so far. I'm betting on them still.

[treestar]

33. IMO people set themselves up

By demanding unreasonable acts that would constitute "taking out" Rmoney. Things no President is going to do. Things they would do if they were there, but that's why they aren't holding political office.

It was the same with McCain.

[porphyrian]

36. Agreed. This was a Presidential debate, not an MMA match. n/t

[durablend]

45. Yup

For some of these people, nothing short of Obama having laid Romney out on the floor KO'ed would suffice.

[Tippy]

21. Obama was off his game ....but he has two more debates

What happened was unfortunate but no real damage done....Romney head is growing ....but not his brain..

[porphyrian]

23. He was playing defense and he succeeded. People believe he failed because they...

...expected him to behave differently. As things play out, people will realize that the President acted correctly.

[truebrit71]

26. THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone said it...

...Willard is getting called out on his mountains of lies and the President stood calmly by and watched a desperate man sling more and more crap...Someone once said that when your enemy is busy self-destructing you don't rush in to stop them...

The Prez looked calm, focused and, well, Presidential...Mittens looked like a wild-eyed, desperate bully that was willing to contradict everything he has said before, and even contradict himself in the same debate...

If President Obama had come out in the first debate and kicked Rmoney's whiney ass all over the stage he would have been called a bully, so instead he stood there, listened to the lies, took note of them, and then made his own points in a clear and concise manner...

The M$M would have NOTHING to talk about for the next 33 days if Obama had beaten the snot out of that rich, entitled prick last night...

I have a sneaking hunch that the Prez will have a slightly different demeanor for the next two debates...

[porphyrian]

28. That was my thought, too. n/t

[Tippy]

29. You got it right....thanks

[treestar]

34. The Obama campaign has been brilliant both times

There's no reason to believe they are suddenly incompetent. Exactly. They know how to handle this.

IMO the people that DU should be disappointed in are the so-called "liberal" pundits. Last night made crystal clear that they are in it for the horse race, too.

[oliverrams1]

47. I can't say it enough

What happened with MSNBC. I agree with you treestar. I am disappointed in the liberal pundits. Ed , Chris. I thought they would have been waiting to call Romney out on his lying performance instead they were waiting to throw the book at the POTUS for not rolling in the dirt with Romney. As a voter I want to hear the truth not lies in a pretty package.

[treestar]

61. Exactly oliverrams

It would have provided a great deal more satisfaction for the pundits to roll around in the mud over it - they should know better, candidates in POTUS debates cannot make an entertaining roll in the mud spectacle. (If they did, the pundits would be on them for that).

Welcome to DU!

[porphyrian]

64. I think the pundits are just performing theater. They are smarter than that.

This is professional wrestling to them. They have already booked venues and charged advertisers for another month of drama and they intend to deliver it no matter what that makes them say to get there. The votes are the real part of this election and most people have already decided who gets theirs. Meanwhile, they have to narrate at least an hour a piece each day so that attorneys can tell you who to sue for your failing vaginal mesh in-between million dollar political attack ads.

[treestar]

66. lol

so true!

[madokie]

30. No doubt

[porphyrian]

37. Things will become more clear as the alcohol wears off and the story unfolds. n/t

[Tsiyu]

35. +1111111

The wailing and gnashing of teeth is ridiculous...

[porphyrian]

38. Thanks. I think so. n/t

[Tsiyu]

39. It was one night

And Rmoney is DESPERATE and it showed. No matter how anyone tries to spin it.

Romney was out of control, both in his behavior and in his outright willingness to change his story.

He basically mimicked everything Obama said, so he's suddenly embracing all of Obama's ideas????

But: already, there are new Obama ads ripping Mittsy's lies to shreds.

There are weeks left to go in this campaign, and after one bump in the road, I see the babies start screaming.

Jeez....have some confidence, some of you

[littlemissmartypants]

40. porphyrian I want to believe you

but I meet so many angry idiots out here when I try to talk to them...one man scared me so bad I feared for my personal safety... so I quickly go away from him...You HAVE TO BE RIGHT... WE HAVE TO WIN.

[porphyrian]

41. Arithmetic.

The crazy idiots were already voting for Romney and this debate didn't change their mind. Obama supporters didn't change their minds, either. If we all vote and all the votes are counted, the President will win this election.

[wtmusic]

44. The media has been mostly successful at the conversion of slaughters to horse races

Take reelections out of the picture, and elections have been getting closer since the advent of television. There would have been a President Kerry were there not for a relentless FOX PR assault in 2004.

No...this motherfucker is disturbingly close.

[porphyrian]

46. I don't agree with your last statement.

More people have been voting early than ever before and, if I'm not mistaken, the number of "undecideds" is demonstrably small and not enough to save Romney unless a significant number of Obama voters change their minds. I don't think that debate changed enough minds. I suppose we'll find out.

[wtmusic]

53. Didn't know...

thanks for that bit of good news.

Sometimes there should be a bloody rout, dammit. I'll humbly request an exemption from Godwin's Rule to suggest that, were Hitler running for president, we might see CNN crawls like:

The Jewish Problem - a Look at Hitler's Controversial Stance
Nazi Claims to be the 'Responsible Representatives of European Culture and Civilization' - Do They Hold Water?

etc etc etc

[porphyrian]

55. I would love to see those two in a cage match, but that won't happen.

The stakes are too high for the President to start off with a bloody rout when Romney was asking for one. The VP debate may be another story, however, and Obama and Romney aren't done debating yet (though I would argue that Romney is done in general).

[reeds2012]

49. I agree. The only thing I wondered about while watching the debate...

is why Obama was not more assertive / aggressive. He seemed a lot less positive and lacking energy. Usually he fires up a crowd, and not that the crowd was allowed to react and participate, but Obama's usual passion was missing.

There's no way Obama threw that debate just for the ratings the media needs over the next 2 debates?

[porphyrian]

52. President Obama turned the tables on Romney.

Republicans have been setting up a race-baiting attempt to make the President lose his temper on camera and appear to be the angry black man. Instead, he seemed passive. Romney took the bait and attacked him relentlessly, but with lies and buzzwords rather than any real answers. Romney came across as someone who is difficult to like and who is not presidential. Mission accomplished.

I predict the next debates will go a little differently.

[reeds2012]

54. I got the feeling Obama was being lackluster on purpose.

I've probably watched 90% of the speeches he has given over the past 4 years. The Whitehouse website has them all in full and in beautiful HD. This was not the normal Obama.

Other than the lies, did you happen to catch Romney displaying any tics (the smug smacking lips for example, etc)?

[porphyrian]

56. If you watched the President closely, he was seething at times.

You could tell he wanted to rip Romney's throat out, but he maintained control. Obama is a President.

Romney was speed-talking, blinking and lip-smacking whenever he wasn't smirking belligerently, on the other hand. Not a President.

[reeds2012]

58. Ok thanks! Good eye.

[porphyrian]

65. This is what Romney looked like...

[porphyrian]

67. . n/t

[porphyrian]

68. . n/t

[porphyrian]

69. . n/t