MI SoS Benson says armed individuals have surrounded her home to chant obscenities at her.

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Jan Wolfe
@JanNWolfe
Michigan’s top election official says armed individuals have surrounded her home to chant obscenities at her. She has a 4 year old son.

Jocelyn Benson
@JocelynBenson
The individuals gathered outside my home targeted me as Michigan’s Chief Election officer. But their threats were actually aimed at the 5.5million Michigan citizens who voted in this fall’s election, seeking to overturn their will. They will not succeed in doing so. My statement:
Image

[FoxNewsSucks]

1. I thought "disturbing the peace"

or "disorderly conduct" was against the law.

[drray23]

2. its all good if you are a white supremacist.nt.

[certainot]

80. what is amazing is that 18 limbaugh stations creating this bullshit depend on MSU and UofM to

keep broadcasting sports on them

it's really fucking stupid that the michigan dem party doesn't pressure those two unis to look for apolitical alternatives instead of attracting advertisers to those limbaugh stations to pay for selling this trumpian bullshit, along with lead in the water's not so bad, etc

more than 87 unis do the same shit

really fucking stupid

[questionseverything]

82. As carlin would say,"that's how the owners want it "

[Hortensis]

83. So this is the Democrats' fault, that DEMOCRATS

could have avoided the rise of this increasingly archconservative RW fascist movement but were, what are we all saying here?, too corrupt and/or just too negligent to send the other half of the nation to time out until they were ready to behave?

Or perhaps did you just do what I sometimes do, forget to read what you wrote and delete instead of sending?

[ahoysrcsm]

85. Negligent sounds about right...

I don't know who bank rolls them, but the poster you replied to constantly points out the 2 Billion in free advertising on hate radio for the RW agenda.

It's really too bad the Soros boogie man isn't bankrolling the Democrats. We really could use some push back to Rush, Hannity, Levin, Bongino, Savage, Shapiro, Carlson, Ingram, O'Reilly, Pirro. I'm sure I have missed many many parrots on the other side.

[certainot]

93. closer to $4.6 B/year! $90M/week free for them for the next 4 weeks to Jan 5

i rounded it to $1000/hr x 15 hrs/day avg x 1200 stations

dem/progressive leadership should be able to do that simple math, i would think

in business school i never went to don't they call that not doing due diligence, or something like that ?

[certainot]

92. at least liberals can handle constructive criticism. it is irresponsible for democratic and

progressive leadership to have ignored rw radio for 30 years. a huge mistake but since most of that leadership lives in cities it's probably understandable. it gives headaches to thinking people who do, so they listen to music. the dem base has ignored it too. probably the biggest political mistake in history

luckily with AI very fast and accurate transcription is down to $1.50/hr with otter.ai for instance - so there is no excuse for not digitizing talk radio so it can be analyzed and we won't have to keep playing catch up. all the national blowhards and local ga blowhards in georgia are talking about dem voter fraud and attacking warnock and ossoff. there is no excuse for that relevant talk radio not to be getting digitized and analyzed and responded to.

limbbaugh on 21 or 22 stations in ga is all out on voter fraud 'proof' etc and just readd a story about a dominion voting machine in michigan being tested with equal numbersz of bidden and trump votes but giving biden a 26% lead..... that shit is going to happen all day for as long as they want

here's

Paul Matzko, the author of “The Radio Right: How a Band of Broadcasters Took on the Federal Government and Built the Modern Conservative Movement.” In a NYT Oct. 9, 2020 op ed Talk Radio Is Turning Millions of Americans Into Conservatives. The medium is at the heart of Trumpism he writes:

Yet talk radio still somehow manages to fly below the national media radar. In large part, that is because media consumption patterns are segregated by class. If you visit a carpentry shop or factory floor, or hitch a ride with a long-haul truck driver, odds are that talk radio is a fixture of the aural landscape. But many white-collar workers, journalists included, struggle to understand the reach of talk radio because they don’t listen to it, and don’t know anyone who does.

Moreover, anyone who wants to make an effort to understand talk radio runs into a barrier immediately: Because of the ocean of content, one must listen to it at great length, a daunting task for anyone not already sympathetic with a host’s conservative views. The time commitment suggests the depth of listener loyalty.

[treestar]

90. And also that people have time for this because

they don't have jobs.

[spooky3]

3. I hope she called the police. nt

[0rganism]

44. betcha those *are* the police nt

[Mariana]

55. +1. nt.

[mountain grammy]

67. Very possible.

[Buckeyeblue]

4. Why haven't they been driven away with tear-gas? Oh, that's right, they are white.

[Cha]

5. Get the POLICE ON THOSE ASSHOLES!

[Kaleva]

7. Can't. They haven't broken any laws.

[Cha]

10. My bad.. I thought threatening,

public Harassment would be against the law. & her 4 year old son is with her.

I love Jocelyn Benson's Spirit!

[spooky3]

11. She said in her post she considered it threatening. And this may be illegal:

https://www.dgmoorelaw.com/blog/2018/02/just-a-threat-of-violence-could-land-you-in-jail/

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/12/armed-protesters-rally-outside-michigan-secretary-of-state-jocelyn-bensons-home.html


Cha

These assholes need to be stopped.

[Cha]

20. Yes, Threatening is in the

Eye of the Beholder.

Why take a chance with bona fide dangerous Idiots?

Mahalo, Spooky

[spooky3]

24. True, but see the link from the MI attorney - they would look at the context and circumstances.

In this case, it certainly appears that it could be reasonable to find people "threatening" if they are surrounding your house while carrying guns and shouting at you.

For someone here who is not an attorney to flatly declare that the protestors did nothing illegal seems ill-informed.

[Cha]

25. I agree.. if SOS Benson feels

threatened.. she most certainly is.

& who wouldn't be?

[Kaleva]

12. This isn't much different then people protesting outside the home of Mitch McConnell

On the plus side, there were only about 30-40 Trumpsters there and to me that's a sign that Trump's support isn't that great.

[spooky3]

14. Were they brandishing weapons outside Mitch's house? They were, at Benson's. nt

[Kaleva]

15. Open carry is legal in Michigan.

[spooky3]

16. Not when it is threatening. See the links in my earlier post. And, you didn't answer my question.

I'm sure open carry is allowed in Kentucky also - were protestors there brandishing weapons?

[Kaleva]

17. I don't think you know how Michigan defines "brandishing".

I certainly don't know how Kentucky defines it. Do you?

[spooky3]

19. You still did not answer my question. The answer is the protesters outside of Mitch's house

in September (per online reports) showed no weapons, other than wooden spoons that they banged on pans. Not the same as guns.

Did you read the Michigan attorney's post, which I linked?

Are you deliberately trying to miss the point, that when people brandish guns near an official's house while shouting words she considered threatening, this act COULD BE ILLEGAL?

[Kaleva]

26. You have failed to show or offer evidence that guns were "brandished" at the protest.

Open carry at a protest is not illegal in Michigan regardless if people who observe such feel threatened by it.

[spooky3]

30. Please do a modicum of research and you will find that you are wrong. Have a nice evening. nt

[Kaleva]

34. In the classes I took, this was covered.

I'm a Michigan resident with a CPL.

[kcr]

31. Really? Show where it's legal in Michigan to threaten someone with a gun

at a protest.

[Kaleva]

33. Who pointed a gun at SOS Benson or her child?

Was anyone observed to have done that? Please provide a link if you can.

[kcr]

39. Just because the police did nothing about it doesn't mean nothing happened

And you having a CPL and living in Michigan doesn't make you an expert in any capacity.

[Kaleva]

45. No but I'm probably more well versed regarding the laws then you are.

[relayerbob]

47. You are carefully avoiding answering the question

[Kaleva]

51. What question is that?

[relayerbob]

56. Were they brandishing weapons at this person's house? Were they brandishing them at McConnell's

There are three possible answers: yes, no (either of which can be followed up with evidence one way or the other), or I don't know.

[Kaleva]

61. As I said, I don't know how Kentucky defines "brandishing".

I asked the other person if he or she knew but they didn't reply.

As for Michigan:

"Michigan Compiled Laws §750.234e prohibits individuals from willfully and knowingly brandishing a firearm in public. According to MCL §750.222(c), the term "brandishing" as used in this statute refers to pointing, waving, or displaying a firearm with the intent to cause fear in another person."

https://www.baronedefensefirm.com/brandishing-a-firearm-in-public.html

Pointing a gun at someone shows clear intent. Waving it around in a threating manner could show intent. Just having a gun on your person, it is very hard to prove that the intent was to instill fear in another person. Michigan has a history of people showing up at protests armed and I have yet to hear of any armed person at those protests arrested for "brandishing".

[relayerbob]

68. Yes, I understand.... and you still refuse to answer the question

You are going around the question, so I will take that as you don't actually know. Which moots your earlier comment that they broke no law. It is better than the alternative that you support them carrying weapons and protesting in force outside *anyone's* house.

They clearly were attempting to "cause fear in another person" and the fact that they were carrying weapons *AT ALL* would then be in violation of that law. I would have the police arrive and I would then go out and get names while the cops were there, and they'd be seeing me in civil court if they weren't arrested. Or even if they were.

[Kaleva]

91. You are wrong

Your comment:

" I would have the police arrive and I would then go out and get names while the cops were there, "

Both Detroit and State police were there and they determined no laws were being broken and thus no arrests were made. Neither Michigan AG Nessel or Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy have called for their arrests even though both have the authority to do so.

Michigan gun laws are quirky. For instance, it's legal for me to walk around inside a public school with a gun. I have to have my CPL on me and the gun has to be open carried but it's legal. I would never do such a thing as I only keep my gun on my property except when I go to the shooting range to practice.

[kcr]

48. Seeing as you're blatantly ignoring the information given in this thread, probably not

[Kaleva]

57. Where has AG Nessel said that the protestors broke the law?

[kcr]

43. They were screaming obscenities at her and calling her a murderer

You can hear it in the video.

[Kaleva]

89. where is your evidence that they, under Michigan law, threatened anyone with a gun?

It is up to you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they intended to threaten SOS Benson and her son with their guns. They don't have to prove anything as they legally were allowed to have guns there.

[Cha]

79. You have Failed to make your case

comparing mitch's Protestors to those gun humpers surrounding MI SOS Benson's home.

[kcr]

27. If only there were a way to find out...

One quick google did the trick: https://www.baronedefensefirm.com/brandishing-a-firearm-in-public.html

Relevant section:

Michigan Compiled Laws §750.234e prohibits individuals from willfully and knowingly brandishing a firearm in public. According to MCL §750.222(c), the term "brandishing" as used in this statute refers to pointing, waving, or displaying a firearm with the intent to cause fear in another person.

[Kaleva]

29. The kicker is proving intent.

Pointing a gun at someone shows clear intent. Just having the gun on you don't prove intent to instill fear.

[kcr]

32. Because that's so hard to do

When people are usually waving their guns at someone to say, "I love you"

Oh, wait, they don't do that.

[Kaleva]

35. It is very hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Unless the person is actually pointing the gun at you or others.

[kcr]

40. They only brought the guns along because they're support guns

[Kaleva]

49. Most likely true.

[kcr]

50. Wow

So, do they have to wear little orange vests to distinguish themselves from the non-support guns?

[Kaleva]

54. Can you provdie a link to where the protesters "brandished" their guns at SOS Benson or her child

And can you provide a quote from the statemtent you posted from AG Nessel where she said the protesters broke a or some laws?

[kcr]

59. I already provided to you

Here, I will bold the relevant section:

Brandishing a Firearm in Public
In terms of gun-related actions taken without malice, Michigan law specifically distinguishes between possessing, brandishing, and aiming or pointing a firearm toward another person. All these offenses are misdemeanors, but they still may result in various jail sentences and fines.

You seem to think that the only definition is waggling it like a penis, when that isn't true.

From this link https://www.baronedefensefirm.com/brandishing-a-firearm-in-public.html'

Displaying the guns while surrounding her home and screaming threats counts.

[Kaleva]

62. Okay. where does AG Nessel say that laws were broken?

[kcr]

65. Yeah. She only stated the family was terrorized is all

And never mind the multiple links to Michigan laws posted in this thread.

[HUAJIAO]

58. Actually they are.. :))))

Where would they be psychologically without their cherished support guns..

[kcr]

60. That's my new name for them

[ahoysrcsm]

86. I know I'm late to the party, I just have to ask the following...

were they

displaying a firearm with the intent to cause fear in another person.

[Kaleva]

88. There is no way for me to prove that they were.

Open carry is legal in Michigan and they could say they were exercising their rights under the law and it'd be impossible for me to prove otherwise since the burden of proof rests entirely on me.

[ahoysrcsm]

94. I think they broke the law, but were not charged. Aint it great to be white in America.

1. Open carry.

displaying a firearm

2. They surrounded her house.

intent to cause fear in another person.

That part of the law is great, wish I were in Michigan, I would call 911 on all the Open carry bastards. Make them prove there was no intent in causing fear by displaying a firearm.

PS if there is a pic out there with their hand on the weapon... yep that would be intent.
PPS it takes a split second to ready a firearm.

[Kaleva]

95. You favor making people prove they are innocent then.

Like that black jogger in Georgia who couldn't prove that he wasn't a burglar and he ended up shot and killed.

[ahoysrcsm]

96. Switching the topic doesn't change reality.

I don't recall any of the Michigan SOS "protestors" were "ended up shot and killed." I guess we could give it a day or two, but I don't expect the police in your state taking names and presenting charges later, or "ended up shot and killed."

Do you?

[Kaleva]

98. The topic is the same. You prefer making the accused prove their innocence.

[ahoysrcsm]

97. PS to my last message...

check username, then check the PS. It helps to read the whole message including the PS.

[Kaleva]

99. In reply to your PS

"PS if there is a pic out there with their hand on the weapon... yep that would be intent."

Not in Michigan it doesn't. Odds are that the judge would toss the charges before the case went to trial.

[ahoysrcsm]

101. my point was read the whole message before replying...

do not take it out of context as you did.

The laws in your state suck if having your hand on a firearm is not intent. I sure would like to read a case that went to trial where the defendant was adjudicated, after having their hand on a firearm, and was then found not guilty. That would be a spectacle to say the least.

[Kaleva]

102. We can agree that the laws here leave a lot to be desired.

I think high capacity detachable magazines ought to be banned and I wouldn't care if semi-automatics were prohibited. Open carry, except on private property and during hunting season when actually out hunting, ought to also be banned.

Michigan being a gun friendly state, I doubt anything will change. So there isn't much anyone can do about armed protestors.

[pnwmom]

23. You just said it wasn't different from the protesters around McConnell's. But the D protestors

weren't carrying assault weapons and that is a huge difference, whether open carry is legal or not.

[Kaleva]

37. I the eyes of the law, there isn't much difference.

Both the state and local police were there and no arrests were made. The protestors left on their own accord..

"A few patrol units from the Detroit Police Department and the Michigan State Police later appeared, and the situation remained peaceful, MSP Lt. Mike Shaw said. "There wasn't much to it," Shaw said.

The protest posed no security issue to Benson, Shaw said. "I wouldn't even call it a demonstration, it was just a small event and nothing came of it.""

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/06/protesters-jocelyn-bensons-home-after-dark-oppose-certification/3850654001/

[pnwmom]

72. In the eyes of the 4 year old and his parents who were threatened by those people, there was a HUGE

difference.

[Cha]

28. I'm Not impressed with your analogy

with those protesting mitch & those crazy assholes threatening SOS Benson.

I don't give a shite if open carry is legal.

[spooky3]

36. He doesn't want to read what the law says, what a MI attorney said, or what the prosecutor and AG

have said.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/06/election-protesters-jocelyn-benson-home-detroit/3852783001/

"Attorney General Dana Nessel and Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy denounced the protest as "mob-like behavior" that is "an affront to basic morality and decency." At times, people in the crowd could be heard yelling "'you're murderers' within earshot of her child's bedroom."

"In a civil society, there are many ways to peaceably assemble and demonstrate," Nessel and Worthy said. "Anyone can air legitimate grievances to Secretary Benson’s office through civil and democratic means, but terrorizing children and families at their own homes is not activism."

"This disturbing behavior masquerading as protest should be called out for what it is and roundly condemned by citizens and public officials alike," they said."

[Kaleva]

42. apparently no laws were broken though if I read that right.

[ahoysrcsm]

87. Laws were broken, no arrests made.

FIFY.

[Cha]

78. & Kentucky has open carry too.. were

mitch's righteous protestors Carrying fucking GUNS!?

Thank you for your research on this, Spooky!

[Cha]

22. Oh did those people protesting mitch

have guns?

[blueinredohio]

41. There's a difference when you're armed and yelling obscenities.

[kcr]

13. lol

[world wide wally]

74. You must mean besides trespassing, disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct, and threatening,

[malaise]

6. When will they arrest the instigator

Killa Con?

This is madness

[LessAspin]

8. Disgusting

It's worth remembering that the election went off without a hitch thanks to Benson and her team..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Just a reminder too that this has been an organized effort that started election night..

Laura Cox, chair of the state party, began dialing prominent lawmakers, attorneys and activists, urging them to get down to the TCF Center .. Cox told them. It was time to flood the zone..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016277833

Link to tweet

'Security Guards Had To Escort Us Out' -- U-M Law Student Who Monitored Detroit Ballot Challenges

November 06, 2020, 11:20 AM

The writer, a third-year University of Michigan law student, posts Thursday night about experiences as a certified poll challenger at Detroit's absentee ballot processing center. Her 10-tweet thread is consolidated with slight editing for clarity.

By Julie Moroney

I was at the TCF Center in Detroit [Wednesday] as a nonpartisan poll challenger. ... At one point, [a Republican challenger] yelled that a ballot needed to be thrown out because it "looked sticky." Another time, she demanded that the poll workers stop what they were doing and back up all computers in case of power outage or tornado.

Just baseless, bad-faith challenges to slow the process.

And after Trump filed his lawsuit and Michigan was called for Biden, the GOP strategy shifted to challenge every single ballot. I know this because I overheard their organizers pass on the new message. They didn't even pretend to have a reason for doing so, just repeated: "I challenge this ballot; I challenge that ballot" over and over again as the poll workers tried to count.

At one point, my good friend and law school classmate Sumner Truax looked over at me and said: "This is not how democracy is supposed to work." It was so true, and so sad.

The optics of it all weren't lost on me either. Picture a huge space filled with predominantly Black poll workers just trying to do their jobs while white Michigan GOP challengers hovered over them, yelling at them that they're wrong, doing a bad job or committing crimes.


The harassment and intimidation — both from the GOP challengers in the room and the GOP supporters banging on the windows trying to get in — is seared onto my brain. Security guards had to escort us out a side entrance so we could leave the building safely.

One of the most jarring things was stepping outside of the building and seeing the sun set across the river in Canada. The juxtaposition of exiting an epicenter of "American democracy" that felt more like mob rule and seeing the Canadian flag gently flap in the wind a mile away, an example of a functioning democracy -- the irony was painful.

I left exhausted, but mostly just sad. I love America, but some of you make it so hard.

How did we get to a place where you challenge other people's ballots simply because you believe they voted for the other guy? How did we get to a place where you file a lawsuit claiming lack of access, when you have 100+ challengers in there fucking shit up? How did we get to a place where you're so deep into conspiracy theories that you claim ballots are coming out of thin air when you are there, witnessing the process, and doing everything in your power to impede it? ...

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/26584/security_guards_had_to_escort_us_out_--_u-m_law_student_who_monitored_detroit_ballot_challenges

and continues thanks to Trump and his minions in the Michigan legislature.

Link to tweet

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016278677

[LisaL]

9. Somebody should tell Melissa that covid is likely the most infectious

a couple of days before the symptoms manifest itself.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

21. Brain damaged and brainwashed. I don't much like Nazis, either.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. Maybe if there were an SNL skit about it, they would stop.

[Ligyron]

63. Ghouls has to be humiliated over his portrayal.

And yeah, he knows about it I’m sure.

The rest of his life he’ll hear strangers yell, “ Hey Ghouls, quit farting around, bwahaha!!”

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. That doesn't help the people getting death threats.

[Demsrule86]

38. Start photographing them. and then put it on social media. My daughter is Gay and

we had a rightie group that spied on her unity group..found out where they met and showed up with malicious signs, armed to the teeth. These are kids so next time parent showed up with cameras and started taking pictures...it ended very quickly. These people have jobs and maybe won't if they are caught acting like this.

The Dean after much parental concern back off the 'freedom of speech' crap and banned them....not that they ever came back but we wanted to be sure. My daughter took her facebook everything private , and they had security at the meetings.

[TomDaisy]

52. WHY DO WE KEEP LOSING THE MESSAGING WAR ABOUT "VIOLENT RADICAL MOBS"??

god I'm sick of this!

[CaptainTruth]

53. "Stand your ground" anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[sandensea]

64. The problem is, they'd mow her down - and then claim THEY were standing theirs

The case would go before some Bush/Cheeto judge - and they'd get off with some misdemeanor fine on account of one of their bullets hitting the neighbor's Dodge Durango.

[lindysalsagal]

66. Jesus would be so proud of his good christian followers.

THIS> IS> THE CHURCH>

[Nitram]

69. Where are the fucking police?

[Cerridwen]

70. picketing and shouting?

[Ferrets are Cool]

71. This is not America

[ailsagirl]

75. That this poor woman should be subjected to those hooligans is outrageous!!!!!!

I can't believe there is no LAW against this kind of persecution.

[JohnnyRingo]

76. I'm not sure you can terrorise someone without a permit.

Certainly the neighbors can't be happy either.
Should be more complaints than at the service desk of a Yugo dealership.

[BobTheSubgenius]

77. She should get armed protection.

Fearing for her life (although not exactly paralyzed by it, all kudos to her) for doing her job? It's outrageous.

And finally...a toddler is inside that house??? OK...maybe a 4 year old isn't a toddler any more, but still....

[Lucinda]

81. ❤️ ✿❧🌿❧✿ ❤️

[dlk]

84. Where is the national guard when you need them...?

[Kaleva]

100. Has anyone called AG Nessel's office demanding that the protesters' be arrested?

Or call Gov. Whitmer's office and demand that the National Guard be sent there.

I would think that the folks who say they are outraged by this would at least call.