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sinkingfeeling

(51,704 posts)
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:24 PM Dec 2020

Makes you ask why the hell we even bother.' Infectious disease experts face disillusionment as COVID

-19 pandemic worsens.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/12/04/nation/makes-you-ask-why-hell-we-even-bother-infectious-disease-experts-face-disillusionment-covid-19-pandemic-worsens/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

“At almost every step of this pandemic, we have failed magnificently as a country,” the Harvard scientist said Monday. “And in ways that we just really didn’t need to fail.”

The country, and in particular this city, are home to some of the greatest public health experts in the world, many of whom have spent their careers preparing for a crisis like the COVID-19 pandemic.

“I’m just astounded by the dysfunction, the willingness to just stay the course as hundreds of thousands of people die, and the unwillingness to innovate in literally any way,” said Mina, an assistant professor of epidemiology at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health, who has been advocating for widespread at-home rapid antigen testing since March, with little success. “I’ve realized that when we need to rise up as a country, we have truly no moral capacity to do it. It’s just the most mind-bending, complete “Twilight Zone” experience that makes you ask why the hell we even bother.”

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Makes you ask why the hell we even bother.' Infectious disease experts face disillusionment as COVID (Original Post) sinkingfeeling Dec 2020 OP
As soon as Trump decided this was a political issue instead of a public health issue gratuitous Dec 2020 #1
This had us fearful as soon as he gained the presidency eleny Dec 2020 #7
When this virus was first being mentioned openly in late January I all but panicked. herding cats Dec 2020 #17
You beat me by a month eleny Dec 2020 #30
+1000 smirkymonkey Dec 2020 #10
Exactly stated. joshcryer Dec 2020 #18
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2020 #40
and yet 74 million Americans wanted more of him Skittles Dec 2020 #49
It is. I am at the point of breaking the country in half, with a Blue_true Dec 2020 #54
K&R. Absolutely the best take on this horror show that I have seen Rhiannon12866 Dec 2020 #2
We had all the way anti-leadership. NCjack Dec 2020 #4
And it has caused nothing but trouble, the only reason we're in bad shape now Rhiannon12866 Dec 2020 #6
Sinkingfeeling certainly hits it on the head. Arne Dec 2020 #3
i've been following Mina on youtube barbtries Dec 2020 #5
Thanks for the Medcram link. Dr. Mina is on it. peacebuzzard Dec 2020 #31
thanks for checking it out peacebuzzard! barbtries Dec 2020 #32
I was lucky to catch your post; Mina has zeroed in on the problem. peacebuzzard Dec 2020 #35
totally. barbtries Dec 2020 #37
He is neglecting 1 thing. A certain percentage of the population who found out that they were LiberalArkie Dec 2020 #44
This is true in the town where I currently live, trying to ride out the pandemic. peacebuzzard Dec 2020 #46
Thank you Boston. sheshe2 Dec 2020 #8
So depressing Ohiogal Dec 2020 #9
Mine as well! samplegirl Dec 2020 #51
decades of hate-propaganda turned "Harvard" into a dirty word Blues Heron Dec 2020 #11
Haven't failed as a country . . . Aussie105 Dec 2020 #12
a Country is handmade34 Dec 2020 #13
So each person is supposed to fight a pandemic on their own? Rugged sinkingfeeling Dec 2020 #15
Rugged individualism has nothing to do with it. Aussie105 Dec 2020 #21
+1 uponit7771 Dec 2020 #43
We should start openly challenging the GOP as the party of personal responsibility. Volaris Dec 2020 #19
Agree and disagree Cosmocat Dec 2020 #38
Disagree, Trump never federated a response to a national disaster and openly left it "up to the ... uponit7771 Dec 2020 #42
Lack of leadership. When a real leader asks us, we can do great things. tclambert Dec 2020 #14
Can you imagine Trump facing a Pearl Harbour? Ligyron Dec 2020 #25
He'd blame it on the Democrats. Then call it a hoax. tclambert Dec 2020 #27
Then he'd bomb the shit out of Canada durablend Dec 2020 #47
If my grandparents had reacted to WWII the way Republicans reacted to Covid DBoon Dec 2020 #52
We're a nation that values capital over human life. Yavin4 Dec 2020 #16
+1 n/t area51 Dec 2020 #34
McConnell sure does. bdamomma Dec 2020 #36
+1000 llmart Dec 2020 #41
Every business owner who fights against lockdowns DBoon Dec 2020 #53
God forbid if we close down Appelbee's for 2 weeks. n/t Yavin4 Dec 2020 #55
K&R MustLoveBeagles Dec 2020 #20
I guess you have to find meaning in saving the people you can save. BobTheSubgenius Dec 2020 #22
Fauci said he expected three completely different pandemics to hit Arne Dec 2020 #24
Hey - welcome aboard! BobTheSubgenius Dec 2020 #39
It's fundamentally a lack of love that brought us to this place. patphil Dec 2020 #23
Kate McKinnon's SNL skit from 2016 was prophetic - Hwe Will Kill US All iluvtennis Dec 2020 #26
I was on a cruise to Hawaii, March 1-18. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2020 #28
"as a country, we have truly no moral capacity to do it" DallasNE Dec 2020 #29
Money and power are the only organizing principles in the conservative world. jayschool2013 Dec 2020 #33
Looks like two generations of the dumbassification of America has worked. ancianita Dec 2020 #45
As Dan Rather put it: ananda Dec 2020 #48
back door housecat Dec 2020 #50

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
1. As soon as Trump decided this was a political issue instead of a public health issue
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:31 PM
Dec 2020

There was no chance it was going to turn out any other way.

herding cats

(19,575 posts)
17. When this virus was first being mentioned openly in late January I all but panicked.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:48 AM
Dec 2020

Most of the US was still in deep denial about what it might evolve into then. Some in my non denial circle hoped he'd go the smart route and ride it to a humanitarian victory in late March back then. I was in the camp of those who never saw him doing anything other than politicizing it to our collective detriment. For a brief moment I hoped to be proven wrong, but his nature rose to the surface and here we are.

eleny

(46,166 posts)
30. You beat me by a month
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 11:07 AM
Dec 2020

I was in the supermarket near the end of February. I wanted to get 3 bottles of hand sani and some more Lysol wipes. The hand sani shelf was virtually empty. I got the last 3 bottles of it. The wipes shelf was half empty so I got about 4 tubs of that. A week later, March 1st, we were isolating.

No trust at all in how he would handle things. DU had been discussing his ineptitude for years. Now we talk about his enjoying death. No surprise there, either.

Take care!

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
54. It is. I am at the point of breaking the country in half, with a
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 10:47 PM
Dec 2020

common defense structure being in place for 3 decades, or if one can defend itself earlier, less than 3 decades. I honestly can’t envision the country that the 74+ million Trump voters want.

Rhiannon12866

(209,627 posts)
2. K&R. Absolutely the best take on this horror show that I have seen
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:32 PM
Dec 2020

Other countries with far fewer resources have done remarkably better. The difference is that we had no leadership.

Rhiannon12866

(209,627 posts)
6. And it has caused nothing but trouble, the only reason we're in bad shape now
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:42 PM
Dec 2020

Even those who are afflicted continue to deny that this pandemic is real if they believe Trump - who was briefed early on, but has spread the denial until this day.

barbtries

(28,877 posts)
5. i've been following Mina on youtube
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:41 PM
Dec 2020


He's been advocating for months for a cheap, simple home test for COVID. the technology is there, the ability is there to mass produce. The FDA is the problem.

MedCram is the best channel on youtube for good information on Covid and I recommend it to everyone, even my own doctor. They also have a website where professionals can get CE credits.

peacebuzzard

(5,200 posts)
31. Thanks for the Medcram link. Dr. Mina is on it.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 11:40 AM
Dec 2020

brilliant and simple explanation. very grateful for the info, barbtries.

barbtries

(28,877 posts)
32. thanks for checking it out peacebuzzard!
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 11:55 AM
Dec 2020

i've been sharing these links for months now. it could have been a total game changer but sadly trump is president.

peacebuzzard

(5,200 posts)
35. I was lucky to catch your post; Mina has zeroed in on the problem.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:21 PM
Dec 2020

This informative link is a game changer vs. the kitchen sink approach that has become the normal. I have had 3 tests with outcomes provided weeks or days later. The graph on the link's content was a detailed picture of the covid reality. I just subscribed to Medcram.
Most physicians I consult are unaware of the details or unable to discuss and educate their patients. We are on our own.

barbtries

(28,877 posts)
37. totally.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:33 PM
Dec 2020

I found MedCram on youtube months ago. Their COVID updates are really good. I'm really glad at least one person checked it out. it's like pulling teeth trying to get the word out. I can only imagine Dr Mina's frustration.

LiberalArkie

(15,769 posts)
44. He is neglecting 1 thing. A certain percentage of the population who found out that they were
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:57 PM
Dec 2020

would immediately run out and start spreading it.

peacebuzzard

(5,200 posts)
46. This is true in the town where I currently live, trying to ride out the pandemic.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:53 PM
Dec 2020

known cases have been reported in flagrant abuse of quarantine orders. Yikes.

sheshe2

(84,538 posts)
8. Thank you Boston.
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:51 PM
Dec 2020

You have been there for us every step of the way. You rushed to help us during the marathon bombing,

You saved my nephews life with a med flight a few years earlier. He would have died if not for you.

You are doing all to save us now.

Thank you.

Ohiogal

(32,567 posts)
9. So depressing
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:52 PM
Dec 2020

That scientists ... SCIENTISTS .... get death threats for working hard on their research and trying to help people through this pandemic, just because they speak the opposite of the most ignorant and loathsome creature on Earth. It just boggles my mind.

Blues Heron

(5,988 posts)
11. decades of hate-propaganda turned "Harvard" into a dirty word
Sun Dec 6, 2020, 11:55 PM
Dec 2020

Magats hate smart people, they'll prove it by doing the stupidest shit they can - like exposing themselves to a deadly virus

Aussie105

(5,658 posts)
12. Haven't failed as a country . . .
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:27 AM
Dec 2020

Failed as individuals.

Too many people ignored it all, and given the virus free breeding grounds.

Once a pandemic is out of control, like it is in many places in the US, it's up to the individual to do their best to protect themselves.


sinkingfeeling

(51,704 posts)
15. So each person is supposed to fight a pandemic on their own? Rugged
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:45 AM
Dec 2020

individualism is destroying democracy in the USA.

Aussie105

(5,658 posts)
21. Rugged individualism has nothing to do with it.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:58 AM
Dec 2020

More incompetence from those who lead, those who could have done something much earlier on. All the way from the POTUS on down.

But if others won't protect you, that only leaves one person. YOU. Pathetic and scary I know, but it's come down to that.
It shouldn't be that way.

Volaris

(10,330 posts)
19. We should start openly challenging the GOP as the party of personal responsibility.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:55 AM
Dec 2020

Because they've proven that their voters dont have any.

Cosmocat

(14,631 posts)
38. Agree and disagree
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:35 PM
Dec 2020

I take your point, but at the same time most of us have in fact taken this seriously.

Our failing on this is having indulged the republican party and "conservative movement" for many decades now.

1/3 of inject their bullshit in their veins like heroin, 1/3 of us have tried our best to fight it while 1/3 of us are in self righteous "THEY BOTH ARE THE SAME" high.

That is our country, it was LONG before Covid came to our shores. Not you and I, but "we" elected a complete sociopath president, "we" elected all these insane congressmen, senators, governors, state elected officials, "we" gave them the power to put total pychophants into positions of power overseeing our response to the pandemic, etc.

uponit7771

(90,437 posts)
42. Disagree, Trump never federated a response to a national disaster and openly left it "up to the ...
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:19 PM
Dec 2020

... states" to clusterfuck their way disparately through this

No, this the onus is not individual ... its a criminal act by Trump administration.

tclambert

(11,089 posts)
14. Lack of leadership. When a real leader asks us, we can do great things.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:40 AM
Dec 2020

Kennedy asked us to go to the Moon, and we did it, even though it was hard, even though it was expensive.

Roosevelt asked us to fight Germany and Japan. We sacrificed a lot, but won.

Lincoln asked us to fight to restore the Union and end slavery.

Ligyron

(7,700 posts)
25. Can you imagine Trump facing a Pearl Harbour?
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:34 AM
Dec 2020

In some ways we’ve been lucky nothing like that incident happened on his watch.

Can you imagine him even saying, “My fellow Americans”? To him and his rabble the enemy is us. There is no “we”.

tclambert

(11,089 posts)
27. He'd blame it on the Democrats. Then call it a hoax.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:50 AM
Dec 2020

He'd say there were good people on the Japanese (and German) side, IF he owed them money or wanted to make a business deal with them, which he probably would.

He'd probably praise Neville Chamberlain's appeasement efforts and vilify Churchill.

He would definitely complain that Russia and England weren't paying enough for the weapons we supplied them.

DBoon

(22,521 posts)
52. If my grandparents had reacted to WWII the way Republicans reacted to Covid
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 10:37 PM
Dec 2020

I would be living in a Japanese colony right now.

Could you imagine the reaction now to mandatory blackouts? rationing? military conscription? They would scream their precious liberties were being taken away and try to impeach FDR.

bdamomma

(64,152 posts)
36. McConnell sure does.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:27 PM
Dec 2020

He needs be ousted from Majority Leader in the Senate. Grim Reaper is quite correct.

DBoon

(22,521 posts)
53. Every business owner who fights against lockdowns
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 10:38 PM
Dec 2020

is willing to accept human death so they can make money

BobTheSubgenius

(11,615 posts)
22. I guess you have to find meaning in saving the people you can save.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:59 AM
Dec 2020

The people who have taken the information to heart and are doing their best to not get sick, or spread any virus they are unlucky enough to contract.

I don't want this to sound as judgemental as it's going to, but WTF? This is no more callous or cavalier than the anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers. Save the people that deserve to be saved.

Sorry.

Arne

(2,657 posts)
24. Fauci said he expected three completely different pandemics to hit
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:17 AM
Dec 2020

in the near future, this was only the beginning.

I have right now poisonous Cain toads in my back yard.
The gulf is messed up with something called Red Tide.
When are the hoards of locusts expected?

BobTheSubgenius

(11,615 posts)
39. Hey - welcome aboard!
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:15 PM
Dec 2020

Funny thing - I live not exactly "on" the Pacific, but "in" it. An island at the extreme SW part of BC. We used to have red tide alerts from time to time, but I can't remember hearing of one for years and years. Maybe the gulf is getting the share that used to be ours.

No locusts, so far, and our first-borns are doing OK, too.

patphil

(6,364 posts)
23. It's fundamentally a lack of love that brought us to this place.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 01:06 AM
Dec 2020

From a loveless leader and his loveless family, to a loveless Senate leader and his loveless minions in the Senate, to the 10's of millions of loveless, extremely selfish people across the country who weren't willing to do the work to keep their families, relatives, neighbors, friends...everyone they came into contact with safe.

They denied the pain, suffering, and death that was all around them. They echoed their leaders mantra of it all being fake; a Democrat plot to take away their freedoms.

These people are morally depraved, and spiritually bankrupt.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,000 posts)
28. I was on a cruise to Hawaii, March 1-18.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:09 AM
Dec 2020

It was a lovely bubble. On board we were reading about the growing pandemic, the small spike in deaths, especially in a nursing home near Seattle. We were very far removed. We did all of our cruise things, largely untouched by the pandemic. I'm happy we were untouched at the time.

I am beyond glad I took that cruise. For one thing it was a year and a half delayed 70th birthday present to myself. For another, it was a truly wonderful trip. San Diego to Hawaii, five days at sea. Then five days in the Hawaiian Islands. Then five days at sea back home. Among my treasured memories is the shopping director on board. His first cruise on his own, perhaps his last, given what has happened. He was finding his feet and I went with him to some of the shops in Honolulu that he'd be representing the passengers. I'm old. He was young enough to be my grandson, and clearly his mother raised him properly. When we were done with a couple of the shops, I proposed we get lunch, fully expecting to pay my own way. He generously bought me lunch, and while the dollar amount really wasn't that large, it was his respectful attention that even now holds me in awe.

The entire cruise was wonderful. As I said, I am so glad I took it. I returned to the pandemic, and my state, New Mexico, had shut down almost completely because of the pandemic.

And since then, I've been largely staying at home, more so in the past month. I don't often go out. I feel fortunate that I live alone, have no responsibilities to others, and can stay pretty much quarantined. I know it is not so easy for a lot of others.

DallasNE

(7,420 posts)
29. "as a country, we have truly no moral capacity to do it"
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:32 AM
Dec 2020

While this statement is absolutely true it didn't start that way. Trump had to make Covid a partisan issue because he knew that this could go bad and hurt his reelection chances so Trump kicked that off by calling this the "China virus", which is unfortunate - and possibly false anyway. We can establish pretty convincingly that the "no moral capacity" got its start from a single source -- Donald John Trump. Yes, there is no shortage of weak people out there to carry the torch but for some reason people are not willing to place blame so Mina blames the country as a whole when it is one man.

jayschool2013

(2,344 posts)
33. Money and power are the only organizing principles in the conservative world.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 12:04 PM
Dec 2020

To understand the conservative mind, you have to understand this premise — people choose professions because of money.

Health-care professionals? Those jobs pay well, right? (Never mind that most don't pay well.) So doctors and nurses are in it for themselves, not because of any altruism. So if conservatives become health-care professionals, they tend to embody this ethos — elective plastic surgeons, doctors to the stars, etc.

Teachers? Well, we know they don't get paid well, so they do it because they're lazy and don't want to work full-time jobs. Oh, the same with academics, plus they want to brainwash our kids into being lazy government-reliant sponges like them. Thus, many conservatives in academia or teaching tend to cluster in those subject areas that prepares students to be workers.

Journalists? They're doing it for the clicks, not to seek truth and report it. Thus, conservative "journalists" tend to be partisan hacks who really are just trying to prove their biases are correct.

Scientists? They're just in it for the grant money, so they choose the most politically correct topics they can and feed off that for their entire careers. Conservatives co-opt science to fund junk research that "proves" conservative talking points.

Politicians? They do it for the power and to make money after leaving the public sector, right? People like Eric Swalwell and Adam Schiff have to be corrupt because they're politicians. Thus, more conservative politicians than progressive tend to embody the corrupt and power-hungry models they envision.

Money and power are the only organizing principles in the conservative world.

ancianita

(36,537 posts)
45. Looks like two generations of the dumbassification of America has worked.
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 02:36 PM
Dec 2020

Use billboards everywhere people commute; near hospitals and dense areas.
Show dire photos of the last nine months.

Make people literally see the message:
They've been fighting COVID for NINE MONTHS! HELP THEM SAVE LIVES! WEAR A MASK!

The photos:










Scientists don’t want “everybody to stay indoors at home”.
Scientists do want everybody to “not go indoors at a job, workplace, restaurant, bar, shop, store, or school.”

Scientists don't want us to spend a prolonged time - as little as 5 minutes in close proximity - without masks breathing the air exhaled by strangers.
A total of 20 minutes spread out over an 8-hour day EVEN if only in short periods at a time has been shown to transmit the virus if the participants are not masked.

Scientists DO want us OUTDOORS, where everyone should be as much of the time as possible.
Frontline health workers and almost all scientists studying the virus have been telling you this for MANY MONTHS!





housecat

(3,130 posts)
50. back door
Mon Dec 7, 2020, 04:43 PM
Dec 2020

How about two lines to the hospital -- one for normal people who wear masks and another for insane covid deniers who don't wear masks (but are still going to the hospital). The first line gets treated, and the other one goes out the back door.

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