I now support essentially forming a coalition with reputable center right Republicans

[Tom Rinaldo]

That's not a statement I make lightly, nor is it an opinion that comes easily to me. When I scan the political spectrum I'm most naturally drawn toward include the likes of AOC and Bishop William J. Barber. I supported Bernie Sanders for President in 2016, and alternated between supporting him and Elizabeth Warren in 2020 (though in both years I fell in strongly behind our actual nominee for the general election.) I strongly believe that America needs to enact an unabashedly progressive policy agenda in order for the vast majority of Americans to prosper in coming decades. I support "Defund the Police" (though not that literal slogan) and know that there can't be a Green New Deal that is too large in scope given the crisis our planet now faces.

When it comes to policies I have very little in common with even the most moderate of Republicans, such as the Governors of Massachusetts and Maryland, let alone with Georgia's Secretary of State, but I stand ready to seek common ground with even the likes of him now in aneffort to preserve our Democracy. That is how serious I think it has become. When I use the term "reputable center right Republicans" I do not limit that to obvious Never Trumpers. I am open to having real dialog with even some recent Trump supporters if they recognize and openly oppose the threat that Donald Trump now poses to our democracy with his frontal assault on the legitimacy of our electoral system and his calls to have the courts, and/or state legislatures overturn the will of the people expressed through their free votes in an election for which he presents no evidence of any wide spread fraud.

If we retain our Democracy, we retain the ability to organize for and promote a progressive agenda for America, both now and in the future. If, however, our Democracy is subverted even our most fundamental liberties, let alone our ability to openly organize, will be seriously endangered. To be honest, even if Democrats don't form a common front with reputable Republicans, I think we can win the battle to preserve the America we had come to take for granted, one with warts aplenty, but one that at least loosely adhered to basic democratic principles, distorted as they often were. I think we could win, but that's not the same as being fully confident of that. Maybe I think the odds would be two to one in our favor, but those aren't bet your life on it odds. Too many generations, from Thomas Paine through Harriot Tubman through the Parkland High School students and Black Lives Matter activists, have fought too hard for too long to establish both liberty AND justice in this nation to have this epic experiment in self rule unravel on us now during our watch.

So if President Biden wants some "reputable Republicans" inside his government, then so be it. If that means negotiating some compromises on policies with "reputable Republicans" in the short term, in order to preserve our democracy in the long term, then so be it. The struggle against nativistic authoritarian forces in America is coming to a head now. We can defeat them within three years, if our resolve and alliances stay strong. I strongly believe that the future of a (small d) democratic America is destined to follow a progressive path. That is what the demographics indicate. But we have to reach that future first, with our democracy intact, before we can venture down that road.

[Lunabell]

1. Not unless they plan to go scorched earth on trump.

He not only needs to go, he needs to go to jail.

[regnaD kciN]

2. I support forming a coalition with real-life unicorns...

Hell, I’d include Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Monster, too.

All of which have as much existence as “reputable center-right Republicans.”

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. Do you find "The Lincoln Project" Republicans, for example, to be indistinguishable from

Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2020, 11:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Michael Flynn and Ted Cruz types? I don't. What I am deeming "reputable center-right Republicans" are a small minority of that Party, right now maybe up to ten percent, but with their active efforts perhaps another ten percent of current Republicans can be deprogrammed over the course of the next year. Tipping points, by definition, are finely balanced. Meaningful shifts don't always require massive numbers to make all the difference.

[OneGrassRoot]

8. Do they still identify as Republican?

Or simply conservative?

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. I think they vary on that.

And some started out still being Republicans but then bailed at some point. Then there are those like John Kasich who never denounced his Republican Party membership but who endorsed Joe Biden for President and spoke at the DNC.

[peggysue2]

34. A good portion of the LP members have left the Republican Party

They identify as conservatives. Others like Michael Steele still hold membership but admit the party is all but gone, fini.

So, it's a mixed bag but one thing they all agree on: Trumpism is a genuine, unique danger to our democratic Republic and must be wiped out through dumping any and all compliant/complicit Republicans through electoral processes. Root and branch, as McConnell is so fond of saying. Right down to dogcatcher level.

I'm 100% on board with that idea. LP is wiling to stick around until the job is done.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Where are they? Hanging out with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster?

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. A tenth of the Republicans elected to Congress now consider Joe Biden the President Elect

All of them may or may not ultimately stand against what Trump is trying to do to this nation, but there is some potential. Not quite as rare as Nellie.

[greenjar_01]

4. Agreed...Romney, Sasse, Murkowski

Maybe a few others.

[BGBD]

15. Romney and Murkowski

Could both win as independents. We should offer them both coveted leadership on committee to change affiliation and caucus with Democrats. That alone would give us the Senate regardless of GA.

It might be a steep price.

HELP may be the most powerful committee on the Hill and it may mean handing it to one of them to get it. Of course, Obama care was Romney care at one point, so he and Bidens positions aren't far apart. Murkowski is on that committee as well and has been public in support for keeping ACA.

If one of them chaired HELP then the other comittees that might work would be Foreign Relations for Romney and Energy/Natural Resources for Murkowski.

I know that would raise a fuss with some, but if it took he gavel out of McConnell hand I would take that trade all day.

[empedocles]

7. Tough sell here at DU

However, if we Dems want to do some things, . . .

[stillcool]

9. I have never felt any group of people...

deserve a broad brush of disdain. Until now. The GOP is a disciplined homogenous group, acting as one, with zero intent to do anything to better this country or the American people. The problem is they are like plug and play toys. They are the means to someone else's ends. I guess in that way they are merely human. If one, just one could acknowledge the incessant lying, cheating, and stealing it maybe could lend some authenticity to a possible meeting of minds. Without an agreed upon reality, what is the point?

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. No point with most of them, agreed.

Those who, like Cruz and Graham, have already spouted the Trump lies and called for elections to be overturned, are forever damned in regards to any allegiance to Democracy. Some of those who have remained silent so far could possibly still partially redeem themselves later by forcefully renouncing Trump's subversion of the Constitution. That is the minimum requirement for any authenticity in any meeting of minds. I will be curious if any elected Republicans choose to renounce Trump's continued obstruction after the Electoral College formally elects Biden PResident.

[abqtommy]

13. I totally agree. Over the last 50 years ALL the reTHUGS have showed us who they are.

Let's believe them and cut them completely off.

[ibegurpard]

12. Such as whom?

Who over the past 4 years had shown themselves to be anything other than a craven butt-sniffer or rabid fascist? Other than Romney on impeachment?

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. The bar is lower than that needed to actually earn respect

I am looking for Republicans and other conservatives who, when push comes to shove, will stand with the U.S. Constitution over the dictates of a "popular" authoritarian Party "leader". Some of the 27 Republicans in Congress who acknowledge that Biden won the election could fall within this group. Republican election officials in states like Arizona and Georgia, who defend the integrity of the November election and Biden's victory in it, possibly clear that bar, as do some of the Republican members in State legislatures who have refused to go along with schemes to have their legislatures attempt to appoint Trump supporting electors to the Electoral College. There are also Republicans like Jeff Flake and John Kasich who refused to support Trump's reelection. Any "coalition" with these sorts would be temporary, based on narrow grounds regarding defending the Constitution and the sanctity of the American people choosing their leaders through their cast ballots, until the real threat of authoritarianism starts to rtetreat.

[hatrack]

19. "27 Republicans in Congress who acknowledge that Biden won the election . . . "

Maybe you could expand the tent by selecting Republicans who acknowledge the Sun as the center of the Solar System, or members of the exclusive OW! STOVE!! HOT!! Caucus.

[Autumn]

16. I now support essentially forming a coalition with reputable aliens from Venus.

We would have a better chance finding one of those than a reputable center right Republican

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. By my working definition the Republican Secretary of State in Georgia is a "reputable Republican"

Thank God he is, even though he says he voted for Trump. No doubt he will face a primary next time he runs against a Republican who would not hesitate for a second to decertify state election results if a Trump like candidate (or Trump himself) claims that the Democrats "stole the election".

I think we are very close to losing our right to fair elections in America.

[Autumn]

22. Does that really make him reputable? This guy claims Stacy Abrams organization was registering dead

voters, including his son and claims Trump is following her playbook to the letter from when she claimed the election was stolen from her by Kemp. "

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-runs-the-stacey-abrams-playbook-11607295416

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/voter-group-founded-by-stacey-abrams-under-investigation-seeking-out-of-state-dead


I stand by my opinion. There are no reputable Republicans. There are no decent Republicans.

Fuck them all.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. I coined a shorthand adjective for the convenience of discussion.

There are plenty of people whose views I tend to despise who still basically believe in the U.S. Constitution (Chief Justice Roberts probably fits in that camp) and in honoring the true results of elections. That is what it has come down to.

Forget "reputable", forget "decent", call them anything you want. Joseph Stalin was certainly neither reputable or decent by most people's standards, but he was our temporary ally in the war against Nazi Germany.

[Autumn]

26. We are not at war. We are trying to get half of our elected government officials to consider

the needs of the of the people, obey the laws and do their jobs. Republicans don't want to do any of those things . In a war you use weapons, we can't bombs the bastard Republican into submission. Your so called allies that you want believe "well I think if we give these people who have no job some money they will get lazy, but hey, lets give some rich bastard a tax break, that might help, and we can't afford to take care of their health so we won't even consider it" . This is not a war. This is us in a train wreck , we are slowly bleeding to death. And depending on people who don't want to stop the hemorrhaging but are willing to stick a band aid on the wound is not going to save us.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. We are not at war the way that Germany was not at war in 1934 n/t

[Autumn]

30. Yet you think we should welcome and work with center right Republicans because

we had Stalin as an ally in the war against Nazi Germany. Which Republicans were our allies when we were trying to do good for all American on the ACA and which Republican has been an ally during this pandemic?

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. In my opinion you are conflating policy fights with basic support for Democratic institutions

If we can preserve our democracy we will continue to bitterly oppose Republicans on issues like the ACA. We will have to defeat them in elections, we will need to win firm majorities in Congress and in State Legislatures, as well as retain the presidency. All of that presupposes that the results of elections that Democrats win will be respected, and that the votes of millions of Americans will not be discarded by gerrymandered Republican State legislatures, or voided by future far right wing courts. That is increasingly no longer a safe assumption to make. It is rapidly becoming apparent seems that only a minority of Republicans now support basic American Democratic institutions. Most of those who still do oppose Democratic Party policies, but some are wiling to side with Democrats on preserving the rule of law, fair elections, and the American Constitution. Democrats and Republicans have diverged on policy positions for generations, but up until now we never had a State Republican Party, like Arizona's, ask citizens whether they were willing to literally die in opposing the results of a national election. Republican candidates for President previously conceded defeat to Democrats even if they continued to oppose Medicaid.

The Lincoln Project Republicans saw where this was all heading over a year ago, and they decided they needed to stand on the right side of history in preserving our democracy. We are tacitly in an alliance with Republicans like that on the issue of preserving our democratic institutions. It is the fight immediately before us.

[Autumn]

32. No I'm not conflating anything. There are no reputable republicans we can count on. Anything they

want is not what we need. Their goal is that we give in and give them what they want. My opinion is the Lincoln Project Republicans is one of the biggest reasons for Trump. They had no problem with the Tea Party, they had no problem with the SC and just because they don't like Trump and wanted him gone does not make them my allies. They are first and foremost Republicans, they like Republican policies and if Trump had been some asshole like Gym Jordan they would have fought like hell for him to have a second term. IMO the enemy of my enemy is not my friend or ally.

[BlueSpot]

17. Both the House and Senate had the opportunity to demonstrate integrity last December

They have shown us where they stand in that regard.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. So what I get from your last paragraph is that once again, everyone -- especially people on the

margins -- have to wait until the Democrats find some mythical nice Republicans who will pretend to work with them so we can feel good about ourselves. Yeah, no.

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. Who the hell said anything about "nice"?

Or fucking "feeling good about ourselves?" I'm not talking about people who make me feel warm and fuzzy. Do you really think Winston Churchill and FDR were on the same political page during WWII, let alone Joseph Stalin? They were all confronting Hitler, that was their common ground. Period.

There has been very little substantive discussion on this thread about how people feel about the extent of the threat now facing our democracy, let alone how to best face it. Maybe people don't see the threat being as serious as I do. But for those who do, how do you think we can defeat it?

Our democracy will begin to crumble in front of our eyes if 40% of the public is willing to believe that an election has been stolen without any shred of real proof for that assertion and plenty of evidence to disprove it. Right now Jim Jordon is positioned to possibly become the next Republican leader in the House, and he has vowed to oppose seating Joe Biden as our next president on the floor of the House. The next time someone like Donald Trump appoints Federal Judges he will be feel secure about his power to appoint anyone he wants to the federal bench, instead of following the recommendations of political hack like McConnell. Do you really believe that can go on much longer and still have the courts continue to throw out junk lawsuits to overturn the will of the people? Will the next Secretary of State of Georgia, or Arizona, refuse to certify an election that Democrats won?

We came to almost take the Lincoln Project for granted during the race for President. They are all current or recent Republicans, and most of them were not "all in" against Trump two years ago. Georgia's Secretary of State voted for Trump, but none the less he is adamant about honoring our Constitution, even while facing the full fury of Trump's core base of crazies. Yes, we need tho voice of Republicans like him on our side right now, that being the legitimate rule of law in opposition to a would be dictator. During the next Presidential election it could easily come down to whether there are enough Republican State legislators in some key Republican controlled State Chambers who will side with minority Democrats to prevent those state legislatures from awarding that State's electors to the Republican presidential candidate even though the Democrat won because we turned out in force in major urban areas.

McCarthy was brought down with the help of Republicans like Margaret Chase Smith. The John Birch Society was banashsed to the fringes of the Republican Party of the 60's by hard core Republican conservatives like William F. Buckley Jr.

[gratuitous]

23. As long as he's quiet and doesn't try to run things

I think the reputable center right Republican is welcome to sit in.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

24. There's only about 6 of them in the entire US,

but I suppose every little bit helps.

[Demsrule86]

27. I agree with you. I am closer to AOC ET AL than say Manchin but there are no red or purple places

on the electoral map where we need to win that AOC type politicians could win. Given the electoral college and our two senator for all states no matter their size system, we need moderates to win and to hold those areas. We have no choice. But the good news is as moderate policy is implemented (like the ACA) it can change how people feel about policy and move us further to the left. We can get a $15.00 minimum wage, infrastructure spending, green jobs spending (good for the planet ) and a keynesian stimulus which will save our economy through...we really do need the Georgia seats of course. Failing that we have to go the senate and save the house in 2022 by running against the do nothing senate and health care.

[peggysue2]

28. Bravo, Tom

Though it is an unsettling thought, I think you're absolutely correct. Regardless of where we are on the political spectrum, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to need every bit of help to repair the damage and hold on to our democratic Republic.

We've avoided the kill shot on this round but those looking to destroy everything are not going anywhere. They'll be on a fierce mission to consolidate and ramp up throughout Biden's tenure, throwing as many monkey wrenches into the gears as possible, hoping they can wiggle back into power in 2022, 2024 and beyond.

We need to make sure that doesn't happen which also means tapping allies wherever we can find them. Doesn't mean throwing out core principles but it may mean compromise around the edges.

I've been following the Lincoln Project people since last year, reading their twitter threads, listening to various podcasts. I know a lot of people at DU have problems with the group, fear they'll try to highjack the Democratic Party, demand things from the Biden Administration. Here's what I've learned, policy directions they would like to see:

A new Civil Right's Act
New Voting Right's legislation
New rules/laws to avoid runaway nepotism
Stronger rules pertaining to the emoluments clause
Another look at 'presidents can't be charged if they break the law' standard.

That doesn't sound terribly threatening. In fact, the group as a whole is less policy oriented than it is about shoring up democratic institutions in the now and heading forward.

Of course, there's always the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' argument and Republicans as a whole haven't inspired confidence in truth-telling or being beyond pulling fast, dirty tricks.

So, we need to be careful, alert. But not so careful that we turn our backs or refuse the help of like-minded Americans, people of all stripes who realize Trump and his minions are a genuine and continuing threat to democratic principles, without which there is no chance of repair or reform or even having a national future.

It's being pragmatic in order to survive, to fight another day.

Joe Biden's willingness to reach across the aisle has been mocked, criticized right from the start. But if he is able to enlist Republicans of goodwill, Republicans who believe the Republic is worth saving, then I say go for it. Once the danger has truly passed, we can all retreat back into our political trenches.

But we need to get to that point of safety and stability first.

Strange, dangerous times make for strange bedfellows.

And damn, if we haven't been dropped into one of those times!

[Dawson Leery]

33. The anti-Trump movement is in for the long haul.

They understand this nationalist threat is not going away with Trump's loss at the ballot box.

[kentuck]

35. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As much as we may despise Republicans, many of them are also victims of these fascist propagandists attempting to overthrow our democracy.

I agree with your comments.