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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI hope Rush Limbaugh is correct!
Rarely do I hope that Rush Limbaugh is right on anything; but in his broadcast yesterday he made the statement that he thinks that the 18 states who have filed suit with the SCOTUS to contest the election results of 2020 was the first step toward secession, I hope that he is proven correct.
Like a bad marriage where neither spouse wants to throw in the towel with the results being a downward spiral that makes both of them miserable, we have more than reached that point where it is long past time to end the dysfunction and misery. To continue to hold on will result in just more torment and despair. It has become obvious that there is no way to find accommodation with Red State Republicans when they have an entirely separate reality from us.
Im way past arguing whos right and whos wrong, what set of facts are truth and which are illusion. Its useless and a waste of time to try to reason with people who deny science and logic and whos daily goal is to stick it to the rest of us. I say let them go and dont let the door hit them in the ass on the way out! In the immortal words of Dylan, Then time will tell who has fell and whos been left behind when you go your way and I go mine. I dont love you anymore and I can no longer live with you. As a matter of fact I cant stand to you see your face (Rolling Stones).
With the brandishing of firearms and the constant threat of violence because they did not get their way, we need to be honest that the relationship has now gone beyond dysfunction and is now abusive. We must establish two households, so it is past time for both of us to move on.
Now is the time for us all to see the mediator and arrive at a mutual agreement and a split of property. A good place to start is you can keep the 18 states who have filed this action (see list below) while we get New England, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, DC, Puerto Rico and Hawaii.
You get Texas, Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia.
The remaining states can decide for themselves as to which household they want to live in.
You want Trump as your president then by all means hes entirely yours. Along with him you can have the rest of the Republican leadership. You want autocracy and a trickle down economy its all yours. You want your allies to be dictatorships such as Russia, Turkey and North Korea its all yours. You want a private for profit healthcare system its all yours. If you want a one party system its all yours.
We prefer Biden for the next four years. We prefer to start with the Democratic leadership.. We prefer democracy with one person one vote and the elimination of the electoral college. We prefer a bottom up economy with opportunity and minimum living standards for all. We prefer our traditional allies such as Germany, England and France. We prefer a public not for profit healthcare system. We prefer a two party system and will form a second political party that will probably be to the left of the present Democratic party.
It is long past time to end this dysfunctional and abusive relationship and to coexist in two separate houses. Best of luck to all of you!
patricia92243
(12,604 posts)augyboston
(193 posts)MOVE!
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)My husband is a tenured professor, not a lot of those jobs anywhere right now. I wish we could move, but it just isn't an option.
albacore
(2,407 posts)The refugee problem... political refugees, climate refugees, refugees from violence... is going to do nothing but increase in the coming years.
We need to start working now on the problem.
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)You MOVE!
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)couple of years that we turned BLUE!!
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)Nicely done AZ.
treestar
(82,383 posts)NC is getting there too.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)It's about time the pendulum swings the other way. tRump and the Republican party have done enough damage.
treestar
(82,383 posts)relocated to NC and people could keep the job if willing to relocate - I know a few people who moved there from here. President Obama did win it once!
Bettie
(16,130 posts)I am in Iowa and the people in the small town I live in suck.
I used to think I lived among relatively decent people, but Trump has shown me how utterly horrible so many of them are.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)I felt so isolated when I'd go for walks and see all the houses with tRump signs in front. It was lonely.
I tried really hard to find common ground with people, make friends despite political differences before giving up. I just can't relate to people who rigidly stand on the line of partisan politics and White privilege. They just seem to hate everyone that's not like them. It's not what we're meant to be as a nation.
Bettie
(16,130 posts)and it sucks.
We are hoping to move out of this town into a larger one soon or maybe hold out until the guy with the Southern Wisconsin territory retires and move there once our big kids are done with college.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)We've been living in a 55+ community and I'm just so weary of old White people in this (now formerly Red State).
Communities are like artwork, more layers make them more interesting and vibrant. Diversity in age, culture, beliefs, talents, gender, color....I miss that so much I can barely stand it.
Bettie
(16,130 posts)if your grandparents didn't live here, you are forever a "new" person and can never really be socially accepted.
Also, when I lived in Wisconsin, it was common to make friends with people and have people over for games or dinner or whatever.
Here, people are really, really weird about coming to someone's house. It seems that it might be an Iowa thing maybe.
This state is the first place we have ever had trouble making friends. Everywhere else we lived, we still have friends we communicate with regularly. Here? No close friends at all.
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)Of course in these Covid days it makes it all the more difficult.
North Shore Chicago
(3,333 posts)for the most part. The west burbs are potentially nasty, BUT.....Lauren Underwood beat Oberweis (horrible ice cream family) in Dupage county for a house seat, great news there!
NoRoadUntravelled
(2,626 posts)It will be well worth the winters to be in a more progressive and diverse area.
patricia92243
(12,604 posts)Clash City Rocker
(3,402 posts)What youre telling each of us in red states is: quit your job, sell your house, move to another state far away in the middle of a pandemic, and find somewhere to live that you can afford with no source of income. If youre too poor to do that, tough breaks, you can stay there and suffer, but secession is the best thing for augyboston and thats all that matters.
SouthernIrish
(512 posts)augyboston
(193 posts)Aid could be provided for those who need help to relocate to a blue state.
There are ways to get this done.
No one should be forced to live under an authoritarian form of government. Not me, not you. Unfortunately, the majority in Red states have embraced fascism and rejected true democracy.
Clash City Rocker
(3,402 posts)I mean, look how happy East Germany was to allow people to cross over to West Germany.
augyboston
(193 posts)The smart people know enough to leave before the door closes.
BTW, if you're living in a state where you think there's a real possibility of that state's leadership keeping you there against your will then why the hell are you hanging around?!?
Clash City Rocker
(3,402 posts)You seem so focused on how his would help you that you are ignoring the damage that would be done to others. Theres no point continuing the conversation. Goodbye.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Why are people waiting for secession?
Why aren't all the Democrats in red states packing up, and moving to California or New England right now?
Towlie
(5,328 posts)
?
All citizens would have equal influence on the government no matter where they live, and human rights would be identical throughout the country.
Dorian Gray
(13,503 posts)is highly unlikely. People are spouting and frustrated. I don't think people know what it would mean for liberals stuck in red states.
wryter2000
(46,083 posts)There are still lots of good people in those states. Maybe not enough to win state elections, but lots of good people, nevertheless.
A lot of DUers live in those states. What are they supposed to do?
dalton99a
(81,635 posts)Trailrider1951
(3,415 posts)People do. Here is a map that shows the actual population of those counties, and how the majority in each county voted:
Link to tweet
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Democratic Lives Matter.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)That, I think, may be the endgame.
We can still have special relations between the Red and Blue states, such as automatic citizenship for those that were born when the country was the US (pre 2021 or whenever we separate).
samnsara
(17,650 posts)..or charge a tariff. I was hoping Canada would buy the entire west coast.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)in those seceding states?
RainCaster
(10,926 posts)All those confederate flag waving pickup trucks, the GOP vote suppression, complete lack of economic opportunity. Can't be worth living in now. This Yankee scratches his head about that decision.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)have been moving to the south of their heritage because they want to be here. And it's certainly not because they're seeking "complete lack of economic opportunity." Ridiculous and intolerably insulting of all who are living good lives here.
They're real, empowered people, btw. Not just cardboard victim cutouts to use for arguments.
llashram
(6,265 posts)and a lot of intra-state bloodshed. African-Americans will shoot back this time. That's. a foregone conclusion
https://www.biography.com/news/billie-holiday-strange-fruit
https://soulmusic.com/article/songs-black-lives-matter-billie-holiday-strange-fruit
TheBlackAdder
(28,225 posts)judesedit
(4,443 posts)Freddie
(9,275 posts)Democratic ideas being passed into law, being implemented - like universal health care - and people LIKING these things. They are absolutely frantic that nothing good happens with the D name attached.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)Like Trump, you are willing to write off half of America, including millions of loyal Democrats. This kind of talk is divisive and not productive.
judesedit
(4,443 posts)intrepidity
(7,339 posts)this is the kind of talk that comes from decades of abuse at the hands of deplorables
Rorey
(8,445 posts)It's not feasible to expect that a lot of people are going to be able to pick up and relocate to another state, and they shouldn't have to even think about it.
That said, I'm all for those who truly want to secede picking up their possessions, along with their hateful attitudes, and exiting our country. Perhaps they could purchase South Georgia Island in the south Atlantic ocean.
intrepidity
(7,339 posts)It'd be better if they were all clustered together.
Crunchy Frog
(26,659 posts)for suggesting that the country breaking up is probably the least worst option, and probably inevitable in the end.
Good luck with this post.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It is getting really close to both sides thinking it now. Our country drifts further away from any sort of representative democracy.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)They can leave. Anyone who doesn't want to go with them can move out and live in the US. Anyone else who wants to go can move there and live in the Texan Caliphate.
We'll build our own wall to make sure there stay on their side. In a few years when they are a failed state we will just take that land back over.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)A lot of sane people will get hurt by such a move.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)will be hurt if this Republican party keeps on the track they are on.
MagickMuffin
(15,960 posts)Just pack up and move, easy peasy, right!
Just pack up and leave our lives behind, yep that'll do the trick and then build a huge trumpery wall to keep everyone in. Boy you are something else.
As a Texan I welcome your hatred!
BGBD
(3,282 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 12, 2020, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Your election leaders are the ones talking about seceding. I'm just saying I don't see a reason to fight to keep them.
MagickMuffin
(15,960 posts)We are trying extremely hard to change the system here. And when people like you tell us we should just move, then that shows your lack of compassion and awareness.
Not every Democrat in the state of Texas can just pack up and move away from the lives they created in whatever red state they live in.
I happen to like living in Texas, it has been my home for all my life. Do I like the current government, hell no. But this is fight I'll willing to fight.
And so far I've only heard about one Rep. Yahoo wanting to succeed.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)it's just one rep. The head of the state GOP is already openly calling for it.
KatyMan
(4,211 posts)than any state except California.
50 Shades Of Blue
(10,062 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)We can't have the new nation of Dumbfuckistan entirely dividing our two regions ...
davekriss
(4,628 posts)For health reasons, it would not be easy to move. Besides, Id expect the red-state fascists to close the borders.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)How long do you think it would take for an armed invasion.
Most Bases are in Red States.
Half of our Standing Military is an invite to many in the world who have been waiting for this.
Breaking us up is a Russian endgame like we did to the USSR. Putin has not forgotten.
OneBro
(1,159 posts)It wasnt just that they disagreed with Obama, they hated him and spewed non-ending bile at Michelle. It wasnt just that they embraced Trump, they willingly crowned him a king who could do no wrong.
When red states suffered, Obama never hesitated to help, but when California burned and Covid-19 was killing New York, Trump and his sycophants said fuck off.
Confederate states have been threatening secession since Booth killed Lincoln, and recent events have convinced me that its time to seriously consider giving them what they want. At some point we owe it to ourselves and to the next generation to finally put an end to the toxic relationship.
Under The Radar
(3,404 posts)Their economy cant survive without federal funding, 15% of their population will have no income that comes from the social safety net. Inflation will cripple the goods sold because of supply uncertainty, and Walmart wont accept Monopoly money.
tinrobot
(10,924 posts)Sure seems like it.
These are right-wing talking points.
JustGene
(421 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's a bad idea. I cannot support it. --- I would, however, support the idea of letting Trumpers move to another country that would have them. (Which one would have them?)
KWR65
(1,098 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Ilsa
(61,700 posts)Send them to Dubai, or Sudan, or Ethiopia, or somewhere else. Keep the US the United States.
KWR65
(1,098 posts)Ilsa
(61,700 posts)Half a million people died to keep this nation together. Another half million died fighting fascists. Fuck Putin. Fuck his orders to Trump.
The wealthy will push the poorest into the blue states, and still try to fuck them over.
People need a re-education. They may get one with a full-blown recession and depression, courtesy of trump. A re-education is possible, even if it takes time. They'll be able to see the fascism of the trump crowd clearly if he is allowed to nearly destroy the US per putin's orders.
On edit: my first comments needed to be edited. I was typing so fast, feeling so strongly, my fingers couldn't keep up with my brain.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)who want to leave the fascist states for the free states.
We could colonize Idaho, rural Nevada, Eastern California, Eastern Oregon, and Eastern Washington with these folks.
If we did this, there would be a large wall of blue states on We the People's coast., stretching from Canada to Mexico.
Paladin
(28,276 posts)You and all those who think as you do can go fuck yourselves.
stevil
(1,537 posts)Change a few words and you sound like a right winger.
MerryBlooms
(11,773 posts)tinrobot
(10,924 posts)Straight out of the Kremlin playbook.
Demsrule86
(68,703 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,493 posts)Oh boy.
Demonaut
(8,931 posts)ecdab
(930 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)although this might be better
denbot
(9,901 posts)Putin, his minion Shitler, and Shitlers own minions are not going to shit on that sacrifice.
Who do you really side with?
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)They are NOT the ones that would have to abandon their homes, leave their jobs, move all their shit, and start over.
They want tens of millions of other people to do that, so that their own lives will be a little bit better.
No thanks....I think I'll pass.
Dread Pirate Roberts
(1,896 posts)That's the kind of talk he hoped to foment. One of his biggest grievances is the role that the US played in the break up of the Soviet Union and he has been trying to incite this kind of division here as a measure of revenge. Trump was his perfect tool for this job. Stop trying to do his job. Do we have to list the number of Biden/Harris votes that came out of these "unacceptable" states? It's significant. (5.2 million in Texas) Political control does not equal unanimity.
Highway61
(2,568 posts)IF this should ever come to pass and that's how you feel, stay where you are. However, history told us that there were many in Germany that were very happy with their homes, businesses, jobs etc. Then the unthinkable happened. Those businesses and homes were burned to the ground, jobs became damn scarce and people started "disappearing". It was then that those very same content people couldn't get out of there fast enough! I think the poster was trying to share a thought provoking opinion. We were/are on the verge of perhaps losing our democracy as we know it. Good grief...Awareness works. Thinking of possible solutions is better than doing and preparing for nothing until it's too late. For me, it's always better to be prepared. Especially under this political climate. Let us remember...he's not gone yet and a LOT of boneheads voted for him. I don't know about you but I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop with this bunch.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Are you living in a red state, packing up, and leaving your life behind?
Or, are you staying right where you are and waiting for other Democrats to move to your state?
Highway61
(2,568 posts)I am doing the same as you. Nothing. That's because nothing like that is going to happen. It was a thought thrown out for discussion. Just discussion. That's what DU is right? Had Trump been elected (and he's not gone yet) we planned on selling what we have and leaving the country. We are not wealthy people. Yet, I have been around long enough to know what can happen to good people when bad people are in charge. That was our plan. Well thought out actually. Then the pandemic hit. Makes leaving a lot harder without getting sick. (flying) But desperate times call for desperate measures. Let's hope it all doesn't happen and we all stay put. Regardless...everyone should have a plan for the unthinkable. Maybe I'm just an old fart, but I believe in being somewhat prepared. Peace.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)control.
Little or no progress can be made in the face of fascist ignorance, cruelty, dishonesty, authoritarianism, and obstruction. I love where I live, except for the fascists, and if I could never encounter any of them again, wooohooo! Sign me up. Fascists do nothing that is good. They are a complete drain on all of our time, energy and resources. Fascists spread hate, poverty, disease, and wantonly destroy the environment. They deliberately instill ignorance, stupidity, and ludicrous delusions among the susceptible populace through their insidious, blatant lies and propaganda.
Imagine....
No Trump's, no Reagan's, no Bush's, no Nixon's, no McConnell's, no Graham's no Limbaugh's no Fox News, no lunatic Trump supporters/neo-Nazis/White Supremacists, etc ad nauseum
A democratic nation, completely free of fascists, would be a slice of utopia for all who lived there. Medicare for All, good wages, free higher education, no voter suppression (100% mail in ballots), a standardized national voting system, zero unemployment because of jobs produced by a Green New Deal, control over our own bodies, a well funded education system, no discrimination, clean air clean water etc, etc
Real freedom for everyone to have good, satisfying lives, and nice things. For me, the possibility of creating a country like this, far outweighs any sacrifices and inconveniences I might have to experience due to eliminating all vestiges of fascism from having any control over my life, and the lives of my fellow citizens.
"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..."
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)Think Mitch McConnell.
It appears that you have entirely misunderstood my post.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)I suggest you do the same.
I think we're arguing about two entirely different things.
SuprstitionAintthWay
(386 posts)...and the United States' aren't either. We're not that "exceptional." This large, evermore diverse, populous, and quarreling nation is going to partition at some point. The real questions are when, into what, and can it be a peaceful partitioning?
"Peaceful" is gonna be tough, admittedly, whenever it happens, given the gun nuts.
Many of the people who get offended at the very thought -- plenty of them always jump in with both feet when it comes up on DU, which of course is fine -- tend to express short-horizon, often very personal viewpoints.
Maybe take a step or two back from it. It isn't happening next year. It's not going to be on Rush Limbaugh's timetable. It's a ways off yet. My guess - obviously it's only a guess - is that by the end of the century the borders of the U.S. aren't going to be what they are now, that there will have been a significant fracture by then.
When it comes, of course the countries that result are going to be very imperfect, too. But I'm certain they'll at least be able to function better than the United States government is able to.
Also, we could even strive to do it as sensibly as possible. If it's into two nations, we'd need a decade or more of everyone having dual citizenship in both nations, and choosing one or the other after the extensive transition period.
And we have this thing, the internet, on which there would be home-swapping sites, and Reds in Blue country and Blues in Red country could peruse each other's property and talk about trades. Jobs of course are not as easily tradeable, but similar sites could at least enable people to compare them and ageee to file applications to swap.
Ultimately yes, there would still be Reds choosing to stay in in Blueland, and Blues in Redland. Nothing's ever going to be perfect, or even close to it.
But it will at least be better.
We'll be able to amend the Constitution again, among other things. Allocate representation in the Senate based on population. Abolish the Electoral College. Wipe away all the far right's current weapons for their imposition of their Minority Rule. Make many badly needed changes that otherwise are going to remain impossible.
If anyone has any more realistic, plausible solutions to the irreconcilable differences that exist and just keep worsening, I don't believe I've heard them. And I have been listening.
Mopar151
(10,002 posts)Slaver-Country must be allowed their privilege, their divine rights to cruelty and misery, inflicted as they see fit. Anything else is heresy!
Iggo
(47,574 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,342 posts)I've posted this before and when this topic came up on Facebook a month ago:
The big problem with secession/partition is that there are large numbers of people in the 'Red' states who don't share the political, religious, or cultural values of the people 'in control' in those states. Then there are those people with 'Red' state values in the 'Blue' states, though their situation would not approach in any fashion that of people with Blue state values in a Red state.
Secession/partition - call it what you will - throws a lot people 'under the bus', in a fairly awful way. Some people have ties to the area where they live: familial, business, sentimental, etc. Huge sacrifices are involved.
It's easy to say 'People can migrate', but it takes a lot to completely pull up your roots, get rid of everything, and start in a new place. Enormous numbers of people really don't have the resources, physically, financially, or psychologically, to do that.
Splitting the US up would end up causing far more harm than can be imagined. Think North and South Korea, India and Pakistan, Bosnia, Armenia, the first American Civil War, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
There would disputes over borders, water rights, licensing of products, air space, etc. And the 'Law of Unintended Consequences' would apply in ways that at this stage are not even being considered.
The US needs to be fixed. And there are mechanisms to fix it. It's just that at the moment those mechanisms need some serious adjusting. And there are a lot of people who have a vested interest in seeing that those adjustments aren't made.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Most cities have SWAT teams larger than the average hillbilly militia.
Any regions that attempt to actually take up arms and rebel against the United States will get General Sherman, the Sequel.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It's the red states who want to seceed. I am not sure that people in blue enclaves in those states can do anything to stop them if they decide to go through with it. Those of us in blue states don't really have a say.
I sometimes wonder how it turned out with the Balkanization of the former Yugoslavia. It would be interesting to hear from someone who is from there or has family from there and could tell us. That was not an easy split either and ended up being very violent. These areas were ethnically mixed before they split. Did people move or stay? I am curious to know how things ended up after all the turmoil.
augyboston
(193 posts)I never suggested that Blue states secede or that even Red states secede.
What I said was I would not try to stop Red states from seceding. The last time we did that it resulted in a bloody civil war and in my humble opinion it's not worth it to try to keep these boat anchor states from moving on.
I think we'd be better off without their obstruction and we'd certainly be better off without them taking our dollars.
Again; if they should decide to secede, goodbye and good riddance - don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!!!
oldsoftie
(12,623 posts)Thats that.
LymphocyteLover
(5,657 posts)red states are mostly red because they have more people in rural areas than urban
LymphocyteLover
(5,657 posts)especially Putin
Bengus81
(6,934 posts)Oh please, it's just Limbaugh spouting BS in between Chemo treatments. Hell I remember when Rick Perry was going to take Texas away from the USA about 15-20 years ago. Yeah...like that happened.
Big joke then,big joke now.
marie999
(3,334 posts)The Constitution Article IV Section 2 The Citizens of each state shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. And the 14th Amendment Section 1.