I like AOC and many of her ideas

[boston bean]

What I can’t stand is her attacks on members of our/her own party.

Same thing with Bernie. We do not need this division.

[William769]

1. I just don't like her period. nt

[Kahuna]

6. Same. nt

[R B Garr]

7. +1. How long do we have to coddle people who lose

elections. Of course Pelosi is not obligated to keep those losing campaign platforms going.

[liskddksil]

78. I think AOC won if I'm not mistaken nt

[R B Garr]

79. She's still pushing M4all and all of Bernie's platforms.

That lost twice with Democrats, which is why I mentioned Bernie’s name the first time. We all know her district is solid blue. Katie Porter won in a red area of Orange County.

[questionseverything]

105. Healthcare as a human right? Heaven forbid

[R B Garr]

107. These kinds of phony sidebars might be why

his two campaigns failed. People weren’t buying the insults.

[questionseverything]

111. How is,"healthcare is a human right " an insult?

🤨

[R B Garr]

112. LOL, it's obviously something you think is some kind

of gotcha.

[questionseverything]

113. Over 80 million people have no healthcare or healthcare they can't afford to use

That you find that funny is heartbreaking

[R B Garr]

116. Lame. Bernie lost twice.

No need to harass people with these twisted accusations.

[questionseverything]

118. Joe lost twice, third try was the charm

[R B Garr]

119. Joe didn't burn any bridges. nt

[questionseverything]

121. Joe's plan is lowering the medicare age

It’s a start

[betsuni]

114. Health care as a human right is a Democratic belief. Sanders was not the first to say it.

Some people think so, I don't know why. Here's Ted Kennedy in 1978 saying health care is a matter of right and not of privilege.

Sanders' version of the old Medicare for All plan is not the only "health care is a right" way to universal health care.

[questionseverything]

115. What we have is a path for insurance for all

Shrugs

[betsuni]

123. Regulated insurance is not unregulated insurance.

Republicans want unregulated insurance. Shrugs.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

127. Insurance companies suck

and need to go away.

I get it needs to be incremental, but fighting for universal/single payer seems like it something the Democratic Party should be behind.

[questionseverything]

129. Healthcare insurance companies make money by denying people care

They provide no service

[Cuthbert Allgood]

131. Right!? Just frustrating so see people saying it's great that so many people have insurance.

My spouse does Worker's Comp law and insurance companies are absolutely the worst. Oh, you think you blew your shoulder out by doing repetitive tasks above head level with weight above 10 pounds? No, it's because you go fishing once in a while.

[Green Line]

10. Same

[Codeine]

28. This.

She’s a very junior congressperson who wants the power and accolades of an experienced political figure. And I do not believe she’s anywhere near as intelligent as she believes herself to be.

That said, if her folks keep voting for her I’m sure she’ll grow into her role and develop a better attitude in time.

[NurseJackie]

59. ...

[Cha]

77. I sure as hell don't like

the Divisiveness.

The Democratic Party has been Fighting Fascism for 4 Bloody Years.. Thankfully we had a BLUE WAVE in 2018 with Nancy Pelosi & Dems on the Front Lines to save our Country. And, those House Members who Flipped red seats to BLUE were Moderates who won on Health Care. Do they get Appreciated enough?

Now we have Joe Biden & Kamala Harris who came through for us with a Landslide and a Mandate.. to Fight another 4 years.

Can we imagine if trump's Cheating with the USPS had worked and he got in for a second term?!

We need Uniters like Pete Buttigieg & Senator Amy Klobuchar, & Beto who put their country and Planet above themselves.

[JonLP24]

100. Do you have any idea what is going on?

The left is ripping AOC viciously because of Jimmy Dore. I know most people outside that bubble have no idea who he is but now progressives are ripping her to shreds because of Jimmy Dore.

Now instead of following Dore's strategy (which would get moderates to hate her even more) she agrees we need new leadership and she is being ripped here.

It is sad. I feel bad for AOC.

[Cha]

101. jimmy dore is a gaslighting asshole

what's his problem with AOC?

We're allowed to disagree with anyone if we don't agree with their statements.

[AmericanCanuck]

2. I wouldn't mind the attacks if there were accomplishments to back them up

Not a single legislative achievement and then those attacks seem like publicity stunts for the twitter fan club

[NurseJackie]

60. Thank you. You're correct.

[dustyscamp]

69. Looks like she did accomplish a handful of things

Link to tweet

[Deuce]

71. Thanks...

[LiberalLovinLug]

82. Thank you

[ahoysrcsm]

94. Hi, can you post the list for us Twitter impared?

Thanks.

[Me.]

3. Completely Agree

Give the guy a chance for heaven's sake, he hasn't even taken the oath yet and, as far as Nancy's concerned she has managed, against all odds, to keep the house intact. Rep. Clyburn has said, over and over, what put Dem House seats at risk si that we were lab led as those who wanted 'socialism' and to 'defund the police' which scared people. Many times Nancy was brilliant in her standing up to trump.

[MineralMan]

4. I like her OK, but she is hurting her chances

of becoming a party leader with that stuff.

Just as Bernie had no chance of being the Democratic nominee, she will have no chance of gaining power, unless she moderates her insistence on having it her way.

[comradebillyboy]

9. I doubt if she will ever be a leader in the Democratic Party.

Politics is a team sport and she's not a team player.

[Walleye]

11. Correct

[redstatebluegirl]

32. That seems to be what she is complaining about now.

She doesn't like the path to leadership.

[Walleye]

5. I'm not real big on constructive criticism. But if she does it it should not be in public.

We just hand the other side attack lines to use against us when she does that, Bernie too. Got a beef with the speaker? Talk to her. We don’t use Twitter to make policy.

[safeinOhio]

8. From the Left or the Right, I worry about

Populist.

[stopdiggin]

13. interesting point

the person that is always playing the crowd ....
often has a different agenda than policy ....

[zipplewrath]

12. She's the future

Maybe not her personally, but others will learn from her and probably perfect it. She sees the direction in which we need to move. The question is whether she can figure out how to get there.

[BComplex]

20. I like her a lot, and her ideas are definitely the future of the party.

She and Bernie stir things up, and help shed light on things that are obviously WRONG with what has become the status quo.

[Demsrule86]

29. Well I believe 'stirring things up' cause electoral losses. We need unity. We are on the cusp

of fascism. Consider if the pugs have the House and the Senate in 24 will they use the House to pick the president? They could if they held the entire Congress. Our situation is quite desperate.

[zipplewrath]

88. Short term

They are thinking long term. We've been here before, they aren't what will cause or prevent it.

[Demsrule86]

24. I don't see it. I like her and many of her ideas...but you can't go after the party and expect to

have leadership opportunities.

[zipplewrath]

89. Again

It may not be her personally, but her direction will be taken up by someone, possibly by those that will more expertly execute it.

[treestar]

30. Not if the party weakens

and becomes irrelevant. Watch the Republicans doing the same thing to themselves. We need to go where the People want to go, not where AOC or anyone else thinks. The voters will decide, not AOC. There are 434 other House members who are just as relevant.

[zipplewrath]

87. Short term/long term

I think long term ( 20 years) this is where the party will be. Current conflicts will not last long.

[Hortensis]

14. SINCE 2016's devastating outcome, they're both averaging on the side of

Last edited Wed Dec 16, 2020, 04:13 PM - Edit history (1)

democracy, problematic as her attempts are to please both Democratic voters in her district and the anti- Democratic types among her donors and followers. (Lots of disappointment and disillusionment surfacing among the latter with both.)

Far worse are those on the intractably hostile, extremist/populist left side of the schism currently dividing the socialist/populist left. Nina Turner, for instance, though expect her to use surrogates like Sirota, to continue her worst offenses and barrages of lies as she hides her teeth to try to get elected to congress by Democrats.

Their behaviors forced Sanders to pull back and apologize for them, and later cut them loose as he turned to fighting the fascism without them he and they'd helped unleash. Like their suggesting right before the Iowa election that Biden praised cuts to Social Security proposed by former House Speaker Paul Ryan (for just one among dozens), nothing's too viciously dishonest and potentially destructive for ruthless extremists on the wrong side of right.

"'Defund the police' is killing our party, and we've got to stop it. John Lewis and I were very concerned when these slogans came out about 'defund the police.' We sat together on the House floor and talked about how that slogan... could undermine the BLM movement, just as 'burn, baby, burn' destroyed our movement back in the '60s." James Clyburn speaking for himself and John Lewis.

“A lot of people in the progressive movement now are calling for defunding or abolishing the police. Do you —” to which Sanders responded, “Do I think we should not have police departments in America? No, I don’t. There’s no city in the world that does not have police departments.” Bernie Sanders

"That orientation toward reforms is precisely why he should publicly embrace the demand to defund the police." Attack dog Nina Turner, fully aware of the heartbreaking worries of Clyburn and Lewis, now criticizing Bernie Sanders for refusing to use the term "defund the police" against Democrats coming up to the November 3 GE.

.

[bigtree]

15. lol

...when people attack AOC complaining about the divisiveness... of attacks.

[jcgoldie]

18. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. Yep.

[treestar]

31. We're not allowed to push back on her attacks?

When did she last attack a Republican?

[Arazi]

38. She regularly attacks the GOP, last I checked an hour ago +/-

Perdue felt her lash just the other day (2 days ago?) as have MANY Rs who've now learned better than to provoke her

[ahoysrcsm]

95. I missed that one. Can you post the text for the Twitter Impared?

Thanks!

[Arazi]

102. Here's one attacking Marco Rubio an hour ago

Link to tweet

?s=19

The tweet attacking Republicans yesterday

Link to tweet

?s=19

Attacking David Perdue a couple days ago

Link to tweet

?s=19

I could go on but you get the gist. She calls out Rs almost daily - either specifically or in general

[aidbo]

44. Didn't like Arazi's answer?

[boston bean]

45. You found my comments to be an attack?

[questionseverything]

104. Very divisive

N/t

[Arazi]

108. +1

[boston bean]

110. Huh

[Voltaire2]

46. Ah yup.

[11 Bravo]

57. You do know that attacks delivered by anonymous posters to a political forum ...

don't carry quite the same weight or lead to the same level of divisiveness as attacks delivered by a member of congress, don't you?

Please tell me you understand that.

[Cha]

76. BRAVO! TY!!

[Autumn]

58. It's a golden oldie.

Guaranteed to please.

[LongtimeAZDem]

16. That's the problem; she doesn't really consider it to be her own party

[LiberalLovinLug]

17. The idea that there can be no internal criticism of the Democratic party is whack

There is only one other party I can think of that also circle the wagons and do not abide any alternate opinions.

In fact that is what I respect most about Democrats. That they have a big tent, and are open to diverse opinions from different cultures, orientations, minorities, and yes, even progressives.

And if leadership refuses listen to reason about listening to their own progressive base over never-Trumper Republicans, and how that is the way for success in future, I cannot blame her for going public if that is all that's left. She wants the party to succeed. She knows she has the public on her side with issues like M4A for instance, and her principles can't let her remain silent. Such a brave young woman. It would be so easy to fall in line, and shut up when she sees the party make mistakes, as she sees it.

Why don't Democrats for instance totally own the $1200 cheque? Go all in. Promote it. Campaign on it in Georgia. Many people are hurting there too. Instead, a Republican, Josh Hawley joins in with Democratic progressives to steal the limelight and defuse any PR the party could have used to promote Democratic = $1200. Warnock @ Ossoff = $!200. It may not be much, but its a taking point. Just the latest example that she is so right that the party does not have “core competencies” to run campaigns.

[Demsrule86]

25. They are campaigning on stimulus and healthcare in Georgia.

Secondly if you got to a journalist, and complain, it is not internal.

[Demsrule86]

27. MFA is not that popular...it was used against us down ballot along with defund the police.

The ACA with a public option is popular. This is why Biden who espoused the ACA won the primary and the election.

[treestar]

33. There's no point to it

It's just self indulgence. The party is people working together. Criticizing each other doesn't help make a difference. If people disagree with you, just criticizing them for it does not work. Why would it? It doesn't work on Republicans. It does not help in the opposition to Republicans gaining power.

[questionseverything]

35. You are doing a lot of criticizing considering you don't think it helps

The whole thread is abash the progressives festival

[LiberalLovinLug]

81. ha. Good point.

[treestar]

90. Why can't I do it if others are doing it?

I'm only making the point they are not helping.

[LiberalLovinLug]

80. Of course there is a point

And all the perpetual admonishments about "its not the right time".....well. this is absolutely the right time! Just as a new Democratic administration is being formed. This is the exact time that various factions and interests vie for Biden's attention and present their ideas and opinions. You can bet the corporate and conservative factions have been in his ear from the get go.

Obama turned to the right as soon as he was President. If you look at his appointments. A number of Wall Street insiders. Elizabeth Warren got nowhere near any influential financial position. And in 2010 Democrats paid for dismissing the "fucking retarded" liberals in the party as Obama's CoS put it. So you cannot blame progressives to be a little concerned and pro-active BEFORE his cabinet is set in stone.

I think some here freak out too much about party criticism. As if that isn't an integral part of democracy. Its how a party grows. Keep listening to newer younger members, (even if sometimes you think they are being rude) if nothing else to gauge how the next voting generation wants the country to move. I do not think that Joe Biden is as annoyed as some here. I'm sure he knows its just dialogue and discussion right now, and expects to hear from all sides of the party.

Somehow its okay for a Republican that votes against women's rights, gun control, workers rights , like Kasich to admonish Democrats to NOT swing progressive, but if an actual progressive Democratic rep dares to suggest they listen to a large and growing faction of Democratic party, she should shut up.

[treestar]

91. Well the voters are not going to vote D because of the criticism

In fact they are less likely to. Criticize the Republicans. I don't get why people think they will strengthen the Democrats with their criticism. Instead of working together, they want to snipe. That lets Republicans have an easier time winning. And Republicans can disproportionate power due to the Senate and the EC. Yet let's weaken the Democrats instead, for not being far left enough. Well, the voters are not far left enough and no one is trying to convince them.

[questionseverything]

103. In my opinion you are the one driving off democratic leaning voters

Shrugs

Aoc and the youth are our future, ignore and belittle them at our risk

[treestar]

134. That's just stating a platitude

and she does not represent every young person in the country. They have to consider and work with others, not just threaten us with Republican victories because they won't go along. How is that working together. Our risk? Why are we less than she? That's not how America sees itself. Equality, not certain people having more pull and able to put us at risk. That was what Drumpf was all about.

[redstatebluegirl]

19. Sorry I do not like her.

My grandpa used to say there are two places you start at the top digging a post hole and painting a barn. He started a bank in our small town that survived the depression. He said that we should take our first job, be confident, but for the first few years listen and learn. AOC could use the same advice. Now she thinks she should be speaker, what a total nightmare.

She is a gift to the GOP ad makers.

[melman]

21. "Now she thinks she should be speaker"

Can you show me where she said this? Thanks.

[ahoysrcsm]

96. According to news reports in the last 72 hours....

She doesn't think she is ready to be Speaker of the House, she is calling for Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Chuck Schumer to be replaced.

Should we really be replacing Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Chuck Schumer? Are they not up to the task of backing President Biden?

[PatSeg]

48. "For the first few years listen and learn"

I think we've all been new at a job, where we did a lot of observing and listening until we became confident and knowledgeable. Its just basic commonsense and it also saves us from a lot of unnecessary embarrassment.

Meanwhile, our focus should be on the senate races in Georgia. We need to win those seats, as well as see Biden and Harris sworn in on January 20th. We have plenty of time for these debates down the road.

[LiberalLovinLug]

83. I hope one day she is the speaker. She'd be awesome.

In fact, I hope one day to see a President Ocasio-Cortez!

[stillcool]

22. She is so smart, so quick, excellent at communicating...

and then there's the other side of things. What bothers me is the harsh commentary doesn't seem to serve any purpose, other than keeping her name in the news. Something about D.C. apparently makes ego's swell.

[DrToast]

26. Agree. It's frustrating because she's incredibly talented

But I don't know if they way she approaches things is the best way to get things done.

[AmericanCanuck]

70. Making sensational tweets to get headlines for the fan club

is not a sign of intelligence or of great communication skills.

A lot of her tweets are packaged into commercials that hurt the Democrats outside of her blue bubble.

[stillcool]

84. I wasn't speaking of tweets..

although she has put out some good ones. I appreciate a Democrat taking on the opposition as quickly and effectively as she does. She put out a great video, prior to the election about what people could do to help us win. It was informative, and positive, and inspiring. If one is human, there will always be material for commercials

[BootinUp]

34. Headlines seem to be important to her. Eom

[Warpy]

36. Of course, how very unladylike of her!

Sorry, lockstep is for that other party.

[AmyStrange]

124. Exactly!

-

I've found from talking to people, that many of the ones who are against M4All already have insurance, so screw the rest of us who are too poor to afford it.

Selfish assholes.
=======

[Lordquinton]

37. I like AOC and many of her ideas

That's it, that's all you needed to say. Everything past that is doing what you can't stand.

[usaf-vet]

39. AGREED! It doesn't help. It doesn't help Biden and Harris.

There is plenty of time to work out those grievances. AFTER January 20th.

[Mr.Bill]

40. Every Democrat needs to realize

that anything they say in public can get hung around the neck of every Democratic candidate in an election.

[PatSeg]

67. A good exercise might be to think first

and visualize what you are about to say being used as a republican talking point or as the object of a right-wing attack ad. Then decide if it still works or if perhaps it needs to be rephrased, clarified, or altered. It sucks to have to weigh every word, but considering the opposition and their political spin skills, it seems to be necessary.

Unfortunately, the majority of the people are not political junkies and don't study the issues. They rely on a few talking points and a superficial impression of the candidates.

[unblock]

41. this entire thread is so infuriating and disappointing.

aoc is a treasure. she can cut through the b.s. and reframe things in the right way and do so clearly and convincingly.

i am constantly saying "*yes*" when i hear her speak because she states things the way i see them and refuses to give in to the usual republican/washington framing.

so refreshing and inspiring.


as to her "criticizing" other democrats, mostly all i've heard that would fall under this category is her talking about wanting a replacement for pelosi who better reflects the more progressive wing of the party. i think it's ridiculous that for anyone to complain about an open discussion about that when the new congress is forming. hell, republicans have had near revolts over leadership, and usually they still manage to vote in lockstep. we can't even talk about possible change in leadership?

i mean personally, i think pelosi is doing an awesome job, she's quite possibly the best house speaker ever. so i'm inclined to keep her there for another two years. but i don't think we should insist there be zero discussion on the matter.


as for wanting her to be more politically pragmatic, there's room in any party for both pragmatists and ideologues/firebrands. so far, she seems to be going the firebrand direction. that's fine. really, all parties need a few people like that in their party. not necessarily as actual leadership, but as guideposts. someone to establish goals and ideals and direction for the party, even if in practice we'll never get there.


finally, it's her first term ffs! everyone makes mistakes during their first term, and very few first termers have any great "accomplishments" to speak of, other than maybe signing on to other representatives' bills. more first termers focus primarily on constituent services and doing what they can to solidify support for a long career in the house. then they start to think about what they can actually accomplish in the house. aoc is doing great on all fronts.

in time, we'll see which direction she wants to go. if she wants to get legislation passed, she'll probably need to learn to play the washington game and tone it down a bit and compromise. if she wants to stay a firebrand, she might not get as much passed with her name on it, but she may well help pull legislation in a more progressive direction. either way, i think she'll be highly effective.

but the point is, she'll learn. give her time. as for leadership, i think she understands that she's not going to be in an official party leadership position any time soon. that's the sort of thing you usually need to be re-elected at least 5 or 6 times for, minimum.

by then, she'll probably be a rather different politician.


oh, and as for republicans using her as a foil for raising money, gimme a break. i refuse to accept the argument that we only need to have every last democrat be absolutely 100% non-controversial and then republicans will finally not have anything bad to say about us. no. republicans will *always* be able to demonize someone on our side. they'll lie or fabricate quotes if they have to. guaranteed.

we should not let fear of republican fundraising have an influence over how we run our party.

consider that kaepernick kneeled, quietly and respectfully, to call attention to black people getting killed by police.
republicans turned that into a rallying point for their side based on the completely idiotic claim that he was somehow disrespecting the national anthem. they will *always* be able to contort even the great things we do into some fake outrage to let them raise money. we can't and shouldn't change our behavior with an eye toward stopping them. because it simply won't.

[DanieRains]

49. Thank You For Saying It For Me

Having someone unflinchingly stand up for the little guy every single time, and at the same time can destroy elephants with a single tweet is a great thing.

The future is the young, not people living in dust bowls already to stupid to know Republicans are lying to them, while their billionaire friends rob them, and their children, while de-regulating polluters so they will lose even more crops in the future.

"Their Side's Think Tanks" spend a $ billion dollars a year attacking the AOC's of the world and the rest of us progressives. Messaging affordable health care for everyone is "socialism" and we need to unleash "American Energy" etc. etc. etc. It sucks.

We need people not afraid of their "framing" and crush them with every tweet.

Why others lost their elections is not her fault.

Remember when we passed, and then ran away from Obamacare? Democrats were afraid to defend it, and in 2010 we got crushed. Believe me AOC wouldn't pretend she didn't vote for Obamacare.

I hope she keeps kicking ass.

[unblock]

51. the whole history of obamacare, great example.

obamacare originally came out of a *right-wing* think tank, the heritage foundation.

it was conceived of as a right-wing, market-based alternative to "hillarycare", or any big-government solution. and republican mitt romney was the first to implement it, at the state level as governor of massachusetts.

then obama, being a pragmatist, picked it up and ran with it, much the way bill clinton "triangulated" during his presidency.

republicans were briefly confused, hey, he's proposing our plan. what do we do?

they decided to criticize it as somehow both socialist and fascist at the same time, or somehow inexplicably bad or something.

their own plan, they demonized it simply because a democrat picked it up.


they will *always* be able to demonize us and our policies and our statements. hell, they even demonized al gore for his major efforts in helping to make the internet what it is today. they altered and twisted his words and pretended like he was trying to take credit for "inventing" the internet on an engineering level, when in fact what he was boasting about was having supported it in congress, which he certainly did, as well as as vice-president (he got teased mercilessly for calling it the "information superhighway" while getting every government agency to put reams of data online, then they slammed him for claiming to have had anything to do with it).

aoc could say everything perfectly and completely non-controversially, and they'll still find a way to demonize us and raise money.

it's just what they do.

[seaglass]

68. You forgot the little part that the MA healthcare plan would not have passed without Ted Kennedy.

Interesting story though.

[unblock]

74. It was quite the saga getting it passed, thanks to republicans refusing to vote for their own plan

They couldn't declare victory and help millions of people because they couldn't stand the thought of sharing credit with Obama. They could have said Obama had no ideas of his own he had to take a Republican idea, but they couldn't even do that.

Yeah, so we had to do some fancy parliamentary maneuvering to get it done, and yes, teddy was part of that.

[yaesu]

42. they are just messaging what majority of Dems want, don't hate the messenger. nt

[aidbo]

43. I like everything AOC does.

All of it.

[Voltaire2]

47. Whatever she's doing, she should do more of it.

[ancianita]

50. I do, too.

Last edited Wed Dec 16, 2020, 06:33 PM - Edit history (2)

And I don't take her tone as personal, but as passion. I'm glad she's on our side of the aisle.

I'm as old as anyone here, and I don't see this rep being about about division at all, or not willing to listen and study issues; she's as astute and well informed as anyone else in Congress.

No matter the content of her positions, she and Bernie are not about divisiveness, but about difference in vision and expertise that improves lives; that brings in new, technologically expert people and planning for the future, which is more than those who currently are behind, and just 'familiar' with both. (When I think that we have 27 House members with only a high school diploma... ugh ... can't find out the names of all of them, but we do know a few like Scott Walker, WI; Steve King IA; Rand Paul KY, most Republican)

Still. We have the Congress we have. It's my opinion that it could always use an infusion of people who are not just demographically diverse, but smarter about technologies and systems that help us prepare for a rough future ahead for them and their grandchildren.

We're facing problems that will once again, like covid, reveal how futile our conflict-driven politics are.
We don't need any more political gridlock, smack talk, blind eyes trivializing massive suffering.
It's bad out here for 40% of America.
We need to unlock the nation's wealth, knowledge and can-do spirit to get on with decisions that everyone can be all in about.

I can live with what works, and I refuse to interpret her voice as divisive and offensive. That just doesn't work.
I support AOC.

[dutch777]

52. Agree with lots of what has been said...need to find workable middle ground that wins elections!

I like AOC not for the specific legislative substance, but the spark plug energy and attraction she brings for younger voters. And Nancy has done remarkable work, most lately in a s**t environment, over many, many years and nicely managed to thumb her nose at Trump on more than one occasion in the process. To not give her credit for a robust legacy is a serious discredit to anyone doing that.

All that said, I think Dems in a public food fight, while faintly entertaining, is NOT EVER useful except to the opposition. First, everybody should shut up for awhile unless it is going to get us the two Senate seats up in GA. After that, have at it, in private please. But have the goal to publicly get the tasks and public messaging aligned across the party for things that 1) move the Dem agenda forward; 2) get things actually DONE for the people and 3) don't so convolute it with every wish list thing ANYBODY can think of and dilute the message.

As a member of the gerontocracy (over 60) myself, I can't full throatedly condemn the idea that seniority be part of the party leadership litmus test. But I do think many have hung on too long and it leaves us vulnerable for the future. I like the concept of ex officio where you no longer have the sceptre or the sword, but you are consulted and your years of experience get to contribute to the dialog. As Obama has noted lately, until we stop with buzz words and slogans that resonate with some but put as many or more off our brand, we aren't going to get the majority and the progress we want and the country needs.

[GoCubsGo]

53. I like her, but a lot less than I did two years ago.

She is not as smart as she thinks she is.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

54. Thank you I agree

It was some of this kind of division that gave us Trump. Not blaming AOC for Trump just noting we have to keep our eye on the bigger picture.

[dalton99a]

55. Perhaps there should be a section where one can view all the daily activities and pronouncements

of {insert favorite personality}, similar to the "on-the-spot guidance" provided by Kim Jong-il and now Kim Jong-un.

Photographs would be nice

[LanternWaste]

56. All things being equal, I think she'll have a long career in DC

and maintain her core values and constituency-oriented leadership. At the end of the day, I think I feel about her and her more outspoken fans the same way Gandhi was attributed to have felt about Christ and his more outspoken fans.

[Mossfern]

63. I'm a bit confused

are you comparing AOC to Ghandi or to Christ?

[LanternWaste]

64. Neither.

Merely utilizing the Gandhi's sentiment of Christ (and some of his fans) as an analogy to my own sentiment of Rep. Ocasio-Cortez (and some of her fans).

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

No comparisons nor contrast implied.

[Doremus]

61. I'm getting real sick of seeing DUers trash Democrats. I thought it was against the tos to do so.

Am I mistaken?

[mcar]

65. Yeah, I'm tired of AOC trashing Democrats too

[Doremus]

73. Except she's not posting on DU.

I'm pretty sure if I started a thread about Joe Mancin and it started filling up with the kind of vitriol contained in the majority of posts about AOC, it would be locked without delay.

The double standards and hypocrisy are getting old.

[ahoysrcsm]

97. I'm tired of our officials in Congress using Twitter.

Is there a good place I can find their statement other than Twitter?

[Dem4Life1102]

66. No

You’re not mistaken

[mopinko]

92. no, you arent. but few will vote to take down a post they agree with.

[Sympthsical]

125. It's open season on the Progressive Left

Has been for as long as I've been lurking. That's why everything even slightly positive about AOC gets hijacked and brigaded without consequence.

Last week, there was a thread with AOC discussing the relief bill, explaining what was in it, and what people need in these dire times.

Like clockwork, it devolved into what shirt she was wearing and where she got her dog.

I mean, fuck poor people, right?

Similar with Bernie. He was discussing the relief bill and need for a stimulus check. People started slamming him and demanding to know what charities he donates to.

Like, seriously. Some people just hate the Left more than they bother about Republicans. Seems to be, at least.

[progressoid]

132. +1

[Vivienne235729]

62. I like AOC and her strong progressive voice. Unfortunately, I don't think she understands timing

and numbers. Her and many on the progressive left seem to want what they want NOW. Even if we don't have the votes. If we don't have the numbers, we can't enact the change. It's really that simple. It's a big world outside of their very blue bubble. Once we get the numbers, though, we should definitely be pushing for the more leftist progressive ideals. Until then, I feel it is kinda pointless.

[boston bean]

72. Yes.

[Sympthsical]

126. She literally said, "Not now," in her interview. Did you read it?

All she said - what has everyone's druthers druthering - is that we need to plan for a leadership change in the future. Plan. Not now, but for the future. The subtext in her comments is that she was probably going to support Pelosi in January, but then afterwards, progressives need to start thinking and planning for what comes next if they want change to be constructive rather than a chaotic mess.

And people Freaked. The. Hell. Out.

She was showing a great deal of wisdom in her remarks. Of course Politico spun the headline, "AOC takes aim at Schumer and Pelosi," but that was some bullshit. Pelosi herself has signaled she doesn't plan for much longer.

But it's AOC, so people took their customary aim. "Why is she bassssshhhhing?!"

Some people would like no criticism or suggestions for our party leadership at all. And that is truly frightening, that demand for unquestioning loyalty and support. I thought that was a Republican feature.

[Vivienne235729]

133. Of course I saw that. But when you are dealing with the media, things aren't always at face value.

There is meta language and meta communication in public media. And if we need new leadership, SHE (of all people) should not be the one bringing it up. It is brazen and disrespectful of a 1st year newbie to be so outspoken like this. It is not bravery. It is her overstepping decorum. And it is why she has a hard time working with the people in DC. She needs a little more tact bc it doesn't matter how brilliant she is or how much I love her ideas and passion. If she can't work with others in DC, she ain't getting shit done and going nowhere.

[Ohio Joe]

75. Well...

Does it bother you when people on the left attack her as well?

[boston bean]

85. Not attack. But pointing out who is throwing the grenades is not an attack.

[Dem2]

86. I don't get her lack of restraint and/or planning

She could get more accomplished for the party if she coordinated with it before she made another "whoops!"

[myohmy2]

93. I don't like AOC...

...I love AOC for holding people's feet to the fire...

...the pandemic and economic crisis is much worse now than it was in March, and it's going to get even more horrible before it gets better...so, why $600 instead of $1200 stimulus relief?...it should be $2400 or more

...careful, the turtle might say 'No'...

...whether the pukes win or lose elections they always seem to be able to manipulate the outcome to their advantage at our expense...

...I'm tired of kissing puke ass and I'll support anyone who feels the same...

...let the turtle explain to the suffering American people why there wasn't any economic relief...

[JonLP24]

98. I knew this was going to happen

I watch a lot of things happen in real time and I'm powerless to stop it.

For 7 straight days AOC has been attacked by Jimmy Dore fans but I knew if she followed through on Dore's "strategy" it would cause moderates to hate her. After all this BS pressure she agrees we need new leadership but she isn't planning to vote against Pelosi for speaker for a M4A vote.

[JonLP24]

99. This is the kind of shit AOC has to deal with

Link to tweet

Watch at 1:27 mark.

[MerryBlooms]

122. Fits right in.

[LiberalFighter]

106. She needs to learn to know when to talk and when not to.

When to do it in private and when in public.

When to listen and choose your words wisely before speaking.

Her method just makes it more difficult to succeed with issues if slamming those that can help.

[MerryBlooms]

120. You should email her and let her know when it's okay for her

to talk. You know what's best for her.

[cwydro]

109. This.

[betsuni]

117. I just saw a quote where she said, again, that in another country she and Biden would be

in different parties, she'd be in a Labour Party and he'd be in "there's usually kind of a neoliberal party. Usually there's a party that's kind of corporate consensus but not socially regressive."

Why say this? How, in 2021 will Biden be "neoliberal"? Why insinuate Biden is not for the working class but for the "corporate consensus" when, famously, he's from the working class? What is the purpose for this?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

128. It's interesting that this post and the Lindsey Graham shouldn't just support Trump post

are near the top at the same time.

So, Lindsey Graham is bad because he doesn't stand up for what he believes in.
AOC is bad because she does.

Before the inevitable, NO, I am not saying Biden is Trump, but if we are going to be Not-The-Republican-Party, then constructive criticism of the party needs to happen.