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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Trump in the end will be shown to have been the most damaging Cold War traitor since the Rosenbergs
looking the other way (at least) as #Putin ransacked our security, politics and economy. Were Trump not president, he'd be prosecuted for treason."
Howard Fineman tweet, minutes ago:
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dhol82
(9,649 posts)The man has committed treason.
Vlad has waged war on us since dimwit Donnie’s inauguration, ergo - treason.
triron
(22,240 posts)
catrose
(5,363 posts)to stop him from doing more treason
no_hypocrisy
(54,876 posts)especially Ethel.
AdamGG
(1,880 posts)so it wouldn't look like they were persecuting Jews with the Rosenbergs. He was really young and generally wouldn't have been qualified for such a high profile case.
BobTheSubgenius
(12,212 posts)I can't believe I've never heard or read that before.
Cha
(318,835 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,289 posts)...Friend of Roger Stone, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein...
... Who knew what when? In Palo Alto, after Epstein’s conviction, he was a guest at a dinner for the MIT neuroscientist Ed Boyden that was hosted by LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman. At the same dinner Elon Musk introduced Epstein to Mark Zuckerberg. Is money so powerful that it tramples all other considerations? As James Baldwin put it, “I can’t believe what you say, because I see what you do.”
One of the most remarkable moments in Tyrnauer’s documentary comes near the end, when it’s no longer possible to pretend that Cohn isn’t a liar and a fraud, when it’s no longer possible to deny that he lacks both shame and conscience. When Cohn was about to be disbarred in 1986 for defrauding his clients and for taking advantage of a dying and incompetent man, character witnesses began to emerge. There were letters to the court from William F. Buckley Jr., Barbara Walters, William Safire, and, of course, Trump, who wrote that Cohn “has been extremely loyal and extremely honest.” Were Cohn’s parties—was his protection—really that good?...
Source: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a29130905/roy-cohn-documentary-wheres-my-roy-cohn/
Cha
(318,835 posts)Cohn. Wonder if Barbara Walters ever had any regrets?
Be such a shame if trump gets punished for his crimes like his mentor. 
TY for this.. I guess those standing up for him thought the parties were that good. 
They were Extremely Dishonest.
jimlup
(8,010 posts)they did very little. They were convient fall guys because they were idealogically comunists. The real culprit was Klaus Fuchs who basically got off.
I would add that I think tRump's crimes are far worse and will have a far more serious impact. Seriously, the USSR would have gotten the bomb anyway in a couple of years. The science is fairly obvious and their scientists were as good as needed for the task.
Trump is worse
Xolodno
(7,349 posts)....just confirmed they were on the right track. There was a major hubris in the government that the Soviets were no where near getting the bomb. Harry Truman even boldly predicted they would never get it. When in reality, they weren't far behind at all. The USSR had a prominent weapons development program in a number of areas prior to the Nazi's invading. Shit, they were experimenting with planes that could land a tank behind enemy lines.
jimlup
(8,010 posts)they had a droppable Hydrogen bomb at least a year before the American Government did.
The Americans detonated an H-bomb first but it had to be built inside a refrigeration factory on site. The 1st Russian H-bomb could be flown and dropped from an aircraft. The American's didn't have a dropable bomb until the Castle Bravo test.
Glorfindel
(10,175 posts)I was seven years old and only understood how sad it was.
jimlup
(8,010 posts)took foster care of the Rosenberg children while their parents were executed.
kskiska
(27,165 posts)Ethel's brother lied about his sister's involvement to save his wife, who actually passed files to the Russians.
From the review: "How was David Greenglass enlisted in a plot to hand over to the Soviets our greatest national secret? And how, finally, did the whole thing unravel? Even beyond that, The Brother reveals how David Greenglass perjured himself in testifying about his sister and her husband—testimony that virtually strapped them into the electric chair."
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Greenglass admitted that he lied and released Grand Jury transcripts show that Ruth lied. It shows that the evidence of Ethels' involvement was fabricated.
It also confirms however that Julius was instrumental in recruiting both David and Ruth Greenglass undermining the whole "Julius is a scapegoat theme".
You might find the following from the Rosenberg's children letter to the NYT after the Roberts book came out interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/opinion/the-meeropol-brothers-exonerate-our-mother-ethel-rosenberg.html
Even now, some observers insist that both Julius and Ethel recommended the recruitment of Ruth as a spy and that Ethel had knowledge of and agreed with her husband’s activities.
It is impossible to prove that someone played no role in a secret conspiracy. Yes, the evidence indicates that Ethel was at least generally aware of Julius’s activities. When Julius importuned Ruth to ask David to spy, Ethel encouraged her, according to Ruth. The K.G.B. files, however, tell a different story. They report that Ruth felt it was a “privilege” to be asked. They also note that rather than encouraging Ruth, Ethel urged caution. Assuming the K.G.B. files’ accuracy, this could indicate that Ethel, rather than Ruth, was the reluctant one, or it could have been part of Ethel’s effort to protect the secrecy of their work.
Other skeptics point to the Venona intercepts, intelligence cables from Soviet agents in the 1940s that were released in 1995. One snippet stated that “Liberal” — Julius’s code name — “and his wife” recommended Ruth. (Scholars mostly agree that the intercepts show that Julius was a spy, but don’t agree on the extent of Ethel’s involvement.)
There is evidence that Ethel was actively supporting Julius's spying but there isn't enough to support a conviction.
kskiska
(27,165 posts)I recall it was a matter of whether it was true that Ethel typed documents then passed on. Greenglass claimed she did. It's been a while since I was intensely into the case, before the Venona files. Apparently, the Greenglass drawings were pretty rudimentary and didn't divulge any "secrets." Ethel was used as leverage to get a confession out of Julius, but she never gave him up and was executed anyway.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)It is 100% true that their prosecution involved egregious conduct and errors, including the over charging of Ethel in order to coerce a confession from Julius.
That doesn't mean that the basic charges aren't true and after the fall of the Soviet Union damning evidence that confirmed Julius's value was uncovered by Alexander Vassiliev who gained access to KGB documentation and it showed that Julius was in fact an active Soviet agent
In 2009, extensive notes collected from KGB archives were made public in a book published by Yale University Press: Spies: The Rise and Fall of the KGB in America (John Earl Haynes, Harvey Klehr, and Alexander Vassiliev; ISBN 978-0-300-16438-1.) Vassiliev's notebooks included KGB comments concerning Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.[65]
The notebooks make clear that the KGB considered Julius Rosenberg an effective agent and his wife Ethel an enthusiastic supporter of his work
Based on this new evidence the Rosenberg children accepted the overwhelming evidence that Julius was in fact an active and successful Soviet Agent. They don't think that what he provided on the atomic side was that significant but that the facts NOW in hand would support a conviction.
They have stopped all efforts to exonerate their father.
They also believe that the evidence has strengthened the case for exonerating their mother, that there was perjury at her trial and that she was not guilty of espionage.
Their letter after all of the post Soviet facts were known was printed in the NYT requesting for a full exoneration of Ethel Rosenberg can be seen here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/opinion/the-meeropol-brothers-exonerate-our-mother-ethel-rosenberg.html
I thought I'd heard that but wouldn't have been able to confirm without a search.
That being said - IMO Trump has done more damage!
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... Russians which is small relatively speaking but HUGE when it comes to how accurate Russian SAMs were during Nam
grantcart
(53,061 posts)They may have not been big fish but they weren't innocent
Stalinist Russia made fools of people who I think were fundamentally concerned about the poor and exploited in both the US and UK.
I think it is a sobering lesson to progressives not to lose objectivity and avoid being exploited because we are committed to economic justice.
Others pointing out that the information provided was only confirming in nature or not that serious miss the point: Julius Rosenberg would have given advanced thermonuclear plans if he could. Think about the Pakistani and other scientists who are selling this technology in our time. Eventually the wrong people will detonate a device on a city.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... and Masters at strategic retreat; losing battles to win the war
my understanding is they gave up the noob for the small stuff and it was a small stuff that pissed everybody off I'm sure it's the same way with Trump he's not giving the nuclear codes which they don't need no one's going to launch a nuclear war
but no doubt he's giving away all the radar signature for our stealth airplanes so they can plug them into their Doppler computers
I said to myself Trump will most likely explode a frog nuke in a small City for Putin but I guess killing a half million people, by not federating the response to CV19, before he leaves office is good enough.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)
Rebl2
(17,700 posts)
dhill926
(16,953 posts)keep preaching it....
Irish_Dem
(81,119 posts)So there must be lots more damaging information that we don't yet know about.
Skraxx
(3,178 posts)He's practically the king of Bothsiderism. I think the IC has the goods on the Russia hack and can trace it Trump. That's why Feinman is saying this with a link to the Cyberhack story.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Executing them was political theater.
Trump has done way more damage than a million Rosenburgs could ever do.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)History's conventional wisdom verdict is that the Rosenbergs "gave away the crown jewels" the American atom bomb program. But what really gave away the crown jewels was the bombing of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945. It's a lot easier working on a novel problem that may or may not have a solution once you know that there is a solution.
Vogon_Glory
(10,289 posts)I seem to recall that there were other, better-placed Soviet assets who passed on a lot more info than Ethel or Julius. The Rosenbergs and David Greenglass were the only ones they could catch.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts).
From around 1968-1984 they were giving Russia our sub information and Russia said that information compromised one leg of the US Defense Triad, and they deemed a naval battle winable.
So, while we were watching The Hunt for Red October and thinking how bad-ass the US was, the whole time Russia could have destroyed our submarine fleet in a moment's notice.
.
Skraxx
(3,178 posts)That's, uh, kinda significant.
Irish_Dem
(81,119 posts)To say Trump would be tried for treason if he was not the president it amazing coming from Fineman.
Vogon_Glory
(10,289 posts)Of course, some idiots in the Biden administration will call for bipartisanship and “healing wounds” and let the Trump administration’s treason go unpunished.
Irish_Dem
(81,119 posts)coti
(4,625 posts)
niyad
(132,205 posts)Vogon_Glory
(10,289 posts)We haven’t forgotten the damage done by Christopher Boyce or Andrew Dalton Lee, either.
IMO, Donald Trump has done far more damage to US military security and US interests than either the Rosenbergs or the Falcon and the Snowman.
Let us not forget Robert Hansen, either.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Vogon_Glory
(10,289 posts)But I think he did the most damage since the Civil War.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)The names of 10 CIA Russians who were executed.
AlexSFCA
(6,319 posts)AdamGG
(1,880 posts)They took the brunt of the blame because the bigger actors had already left the country and fled to Russia. Trump, on the other hand, is right at the nexus of power.
dalton99a
(94,072 posts)monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)we a gofundme page to build a " republican prisons only "
kimbutgar
(27,230 posts)LudwigPastorius
(14,679 posts)and how it was undetected for months, and how it is ongoing.
He will be ousted from the White House without having said a damned thing condemning Russia, just like when Putin was putting bounties on the heads of our soldiers.
Biden has got to unleash the new AG with the mandate to find out exactly what classified information Trump has handed over to Russia, and to PROSECUTE him.
Cha
(318,835 posts)
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)
tclambert
(11,191 posts)I would dearly love to see him in handcuffs by 12:01.
tclambert
(11,191 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(12,212 posts)I'd like to think someone will get to that little task, and sooner, rather than later.
GoCubsGo
(34,889 posts)And, I don't give a flying fuck that the other fuckers in his party have their fucking undies in a wad about the fact that I and others are pointing out that they are fucking fuckers. Fuck them.
cannabis_flower
(3,931 posts)the Rosenbergs makes it sound like he wasn’t as bad as the Rosenbergs. I think he was worse than the Rosenbergs because the Rosenbergs didn’t have the power of the presidency.
cliftoncooper
(10 posts)Trump's recruitment has surely been the greatest triumph ever for the KGB, and for its successor agencies.
Meadowoak
(6,606 posts)
jmowreader
(53,165 posts)It would cost tens of thousands of dollars to replace the seals, pressure test the chambers etc. to be sure the gas didn’t kill the prison staff and witnesses along with the inmate.
My recommendation is a good old fashioned Nicolae Ceaucescu “stand him up against the wall and put it on full auto” firing squad execution.
triron
(22,240 posts)
burrowowl
(18,494 posts)highplainsdem
(61,923 posts)ScratchCat
(2,736 posts)1)If Trump were not President, he wouldn't have been in a position to ignore(at least) the hack by Russia or to have anything to do with it.
2)He's getting skewered in that Twitter thread for saying that.
TryLogic
(2,291 posts)We can elect a president or VP who has never been vetted for top security clearance.
THIS MUST CHANGE ASAP.
Evolve Dammit
(21,766 posts)
AngryOldDem
(14,180 posts)Ever since this broke, it’s been bothering me — the timing, the perpetrator.
I can’t help but think Trump LIHOP. His final, epic “fuck you.”
Trump is a traitor. Full-fucking-stop.