Why AOC lost secret ballot for a seat on powerful House committee

[NurseJackie]

https://www.axios.com/aoc-house-energy-commerce-committee-58eda1b2-baf0-4b77-81ef-793434940f23.html

Why AOC lost secret ballot for a seat on powerful House committee

In Congress, the most brutal battles are internal. House Democratic colleagues of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sent her a chilly message yesterday when she lost 46-13 to a fellow New Yorker, Rep. Kathleen Rice, in a secret ballot for a seat on the powerful Energy and Commerce Committee.

Driving the news: I'm told Ocasio-Cortez lost the vote by the House Democratic Steering Committee because she didn't personally ask for enough votes, and because some members fear she'll support a primary against them from the left.

Rice worked the committee, tightly controlled by Speaker Pelosi, and was showered with seconding speeches. One member told me Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez "doesn't have enough relationships. She needs to learn from this." Conscious of AOC's power with progressives and online, the member said: "The vote would have been very different if it wasn't secret."

An aide to Ocasio-Cortez didn't immediately answer a request for comment.

[FSogol]

1. Who could have guessed that in a job where you have to work together that working together

was important?

[NurseJackie]

5. Another undercurrent that I got from the story was a distinct lack of trust...

... that's being exhibited among her colleagues. Nobody wants to have their political career or election chances sabotaged with expensive and distracting and unnecessary primaries. I certainly cannot blame them for feeling that way.

[R B Garr]

45. Absolutely! The outrage machine is a bottomless pit

of unaccountable grandstanding. I don’t blame them either for not trusting it.

[betsuni]

131. +1

[LiberalFighter]

85. AOC doesn't help her cause when she antagonizes those she needs support.

[NurseJackie]

88. Retweets aren't as valuable as building alliances and working to gain trust and respect.

Some of the most successful folks in congress don't tweet... or don't get into high-profile twitter-wars... or they have staff members who are in charge of the official twitter statements (ie: they're well-considered rather than impulsive or posted in anger/frustration).

A good rule of thumb for anyone who wants to be successful in congress is if they remembered to ask themselves: WWND?

What would Nancy do? What would Nancy say? How would she respond and react? More people in congress should ask themselves that... and then do what Nancy would do.

[ehrnst]

126. +1000. (nt)

[Cary]

136. That's.great advice

What are the odds AOC would take it?

[Sympthsical]

2. "The vote would have been very different if it wasn't secret."

Heh. That tracks.

[PoliticAverse]

11. Real brave people we elect. n/t

[AmericanCanuck]

39. That is just a speculation

It may have been closer than that but AOC would still have lost.

[George II]

42. Doesn't say in which direction it would be different. And that's just the opinion....

....of one anonymous person.

Who knows, it might have been unanimous in favor of Representative Rice.

[catbyte]

3. I wish she was more of a team player. She'd get so much farther than with her current tactics.

She has the potential to be a real leader if she'd just tone down the rhetoric a little. She's young, though, and being the center of so much attention must be pretty heady. I hope she learns from this because we need voices like hers.

[FSogol]

6. Completely agree. She could accomplish much if she worked with the Democrats around her. n/t

[True Blue American]

4. AOC has not bothered to make friends.

Really a shame because she is very intelligent

[comradebillyboy]

14. Her colleagues obviously don't

trust her. Building bridges might be more helpful than burning them.

[left-of-center2012]

7. Good article

"some members fear she'll support a primary against them from the left"

[NurseJackie]

10. That part stood-out to me as well. Like a sore thumb.

There's definitely a lack of trust and overall suspicion that they're showing.

[Codeine]

20. Well-founded, in fairness. nt

[Gothmog]

8. Good article

[DFW]

9. The game of politics

It involves not just making war on your enemies but also making peace with your allies. If you‘re not quite sure just who your allies are, you will find out sooner or later, one way or the other, that it is easy to make them, and just as easy to lose them.

[StarfishSaver]

32. This

[George II]

60. Or put another way, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[DFW]

77. The classic way of putting it

No less true now than it was then.

[Cha]

105. Or you make more friends by

not attacking them but finding common ground and building a consensus.

Like PE Biden is trying to do & has done successfully. Saw his & Dr Biden's interview on Colbert last night. It was grand!

[Budi]

12. K & R & Thank You

An insightful & revealing read

[NurseJackie]

15. Based on what I read, there's a trust problem.

That much is clear.

[Budi]

24. Yup. And its difficult to restore that necessary quality whether in business or one's personal life.

Life- Lesson regardless of age or position.

[True Blue American]

40. Absolutely

The worst part is you build that trust from the ground up. You learn from those who were there before you.

My Son graduated from College. His Father said,” “ Now, you have that piece of paper, get out on that floor, listen to the old men, buy them a cup of coffee occasionally, will not cost you much!”

There was never a time he could not get workers to do things for him. To this day he says it was the best advice he ever had.

Treat people as you wish to be treated.

[Budi]

53. That is the most basic & sound advice one can pass down the line..

"Treat people as you wish to be treated."

"You learn from those who were there before you. "

Thanks~

[redstatebluegirl]

13. She may be in the house a long time, but she will never be in leadership.

[NurseJackie]

17. There are question regarding whether or not her district will continue to exist after...

... some upcoming adjustments are made. It's obviously a very "safe" district for her, but it remains to be seen whether or not she can win in a differently drawn district (if she decides to try) or if she could even win in a statewide contest. So, basically, we don't know with 100% certainty that she'll be around if/when these things happen.

Politics is interesting, isn't it?

[redstatebluegirl]

19. Always interesting!

[Gothmog]

129. I have seen articles about this also

The NY will have to redistrict in 2021

[unblock]

28. that doesn't mean she won't be influential

ted kennedy was barely in leadership. he was majority whip for all of two years. yet he was long referred to as the lion of the senate.

[StarfishSaver]

34. He was influential because he built relationships with and worked well with his colleagues

He didn't use his public platform to put them on blast every time they said or did something he disagreed with, and he didn't go into their states to try to undermine them with their constituents in hopes they'd be voted out of office in favor of someone more closely aligned with his political philosophy.

AOC and other younger Members can learn from Ted Kennedy's example.

[True Blue American]

44. Thank you!

I was just going to say Ted worked with people, both sides of the aisle. Took him years to achieve that.

The reason Tip O’ Neil was so successful. He knew how to work on both sides.

[sheshe2]

101. He earned that title for reasons listed below.

He was only 30 years old when he was elected Senator.

Kennedy was known for his oratorical skills. His 1968 eulogy for his brother Robert and his 1980 rallying cry for modern American liberalism were among his best-known speeches. He became recognized as "The Lion of the Senate" through his long tenure and influence. Kennedy and his staff wrote more than 300 bills that were enacted into law. Unabashedly liberal, Kennedy championed an interventionist government that emphasized economic and social justice, but he was also known for working with Republicans to find compromises. Kennedy played a major role in passing many laws, including the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, the National Cancer Act of 1971, the COBRA health insurance provision, the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, the Ryan White AIDS Care Act, the Civil Rights Act of 1991, the Mental Health Parity Act, the S-CHIP children's health program, the No Child Left Behind Act, and the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act. During the 2000s, he led several unsuccessful immigration reform efforts. Over the course of his Senate career, Kennedy made efforts to enact universal health care, which he called the "cause of my life." By the later years of his life, Kennedy had come to be viewed as a major figure and spokesman for American progressivism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy#:~:text=Kennedy%20was%2030%20years%20old,taken%20office%20as%20the%20president.&text=He%20became%20recognized%20as%20%22The,his%20long%20tenure%20and%20influence.

It is not just what you say, it is what you do, what you accomplish.

I love this sentence:

By the later years of his life, Kennedy had come to be viewed as a major figure and spokesman for American progressivism.

[unblock]

113. agreed. i'm certainly not saying aoc is there yet. that's the point, it's only her first term.

but she has amazing potential. sure it's entirely possible she might screw up in any of a number of ways, and it's even possible she's already burned bridges.

but then, good politicians learn as they go. early days for aoc, it will be exciting to see the course of her career. she may become more pragmatic and learn to "play the game" over time, or she may stick to being more of an outsider/firebrand. either path can be highly effective if done well, or useless if done poorly.

for now, given that first termers rarely "accomplish" much in the house, she's doing quite well to be getting national recognition for being a strong voice for the poor and minorities and for progressive causes.

[sheshe2]

117. Yes she has potential.

She should choose wisely. It is hard to build bridges and to easy to tear them down.

She needs to grow. She can do this, Ted did at 30. He built bridges.

[treestar]

110. The Senate is different, they have won a statewide office

There are only 100 of them. They won a state which may have red districts. House members may be from very red or very blue districts and only able to win in that type of space.

[unblock]

114. certainly true, though teddy was from massachusetts, when it was strongly liberal

it's still reliably democratic, though not as strongly as it was in teddy's days.

but people put an awful lot on aoc. she's a first termer just trying to be a strong voice for her district, which means being a loud progressive voice. i don't think she's pretending she could win a red district. i think she's just trying to build up the progressive wing of the party, and i certainly support that effort.

[Ms. Toad]

107. Sometimes people grow more people-smart with age and experience. n/t

[OneBro]

16. Fighting for the people causes "dislikes."

An anonymous member who doesn’t like AOC told me . . . (Sigh)

Members who fight hardest for the people, for poor and middle class, and for the powerless are NEVER voted most popular in Congress. There are plenty of very likable members successfully fighting politely, quietly, and with little effort . . . for the status quo.

[NurseJackie]

18. John Lewis

[mcar]

22. Boom!

[OneBro]

26. Good trouble, indeed.

Lewis was in the House 33 years. She has barely been there a year.

[True Blue American]

46. Smile

[StarfishSaver]

35. That's not true.

People can stand up for what's right without attacking their colleagues.

[Cha]

123. EXACTLY.

[aidbo]

78. How right you are.

[George II]

81. What is the "status quo" - I've seen that term and asked a number of times. Never an answer.

[treestar]

111. Why is it needed to be polite to fight for other than the status quo?

Maybe that explains why the status quo continues.

[unblock]

21. lol that everyone is shocked the person with seniority got picked.

oh my, it must be because aoc did something something.



to be fair, a lot of people are saying the same thing, just in different ways. she needs to have more relationships to get the support she needs to get the assignments she wants, but those relationships generally come with seniority.

if aoc weren't such a national figure, this wouldn't be a story. the person with seniority got the assignment, that's the completely normal and ordinary way things usually happen.

the fact that aoc was in the running at all despite being in her first term, and the comment that she would have won had it been open voting, that's the story.

[OneBro]

36. At the core of the anti-AOC choir, . . .

. . . is anger that she won’t just follow the flow, and she has the audacity to explain herself. If only she’d get in line and do what the 20+ year veterans say, all would be well. Sure, those veterans were at the wheel when we got lost, but they’re icons who should be adored, not challenged.

Someone just needs to explain to AOC that if she too wants to be around for 20 or 30 years, it’s actually quite easy. Moderation, young lady. Moderation. That’s just what we need these days in the Democratic Party. Moderation.

[True Blue American]

48. No, you can be very successful

You just do not tread on others to accomplish what you want to.

[OnDoutside]

50. That's not even close to being true. When she is taking on Republicans

or their lackeys, she gets plaudits from all Dems. When she targets Dem colleagues, you can hardly expect them to take it and not respond ? What goes around comes around. Katie Porter is a progressive but is far more liked by mainstream Dems, without compromising her integrity. This should be a learning moment for AOC, following on from Steve Schmidt's approach, it will be interesting to see if she takes this moment for what it is.

[Demsrule86]

52. I disagree. You have to support the party to some degree...and primarying sitting Democrats

is a problem for the party. I like AOC and hope she can work with her colleagues in future terms. She is very talented.

[NurseJackie]

55. She will have trouble winning future elections when her district is redrawn.

Right now, it's a very blue and very safe district. That will likely be changing. When the district becomes more competitive she won't be an easy "shoe-in". Also based on her current district's demographics... it's easy to see that she'd have a very difficult time winning a statewide election, or even as mayor of NYC.

[OneBro]

70. True, but AOC took her seat from a 10-term sitting Democrat.

By some logic, the only way for AOC to truly be a good Democrat was for her to have never challenged Crowley in the first place. While newbies like AOC are bound to make more mistakes, it's ironic that the complaints are generally about how they aren't playing by the rules of the old guard, i.e. the people who were on guard for the decades and decades that got us to this point in politics.

I get that primarying Democrats in seats vulnerable to flipping to republican is more than a little unsavory. I too would yell and plead DON'T DO IT!, but if the suggestion is that the next generation is inherently bad because it is bucking the old guard, I suggest having to re-interview for the position and argue one's merit isn't always a bad thing. Don't tell me what you did 10, 20, 30 years ago that was so amazing. Tell me what you did in the last 2 sessions.

AOC is raising hell among many who prefer to just raise a little heck. After 4 years of Trump and decades of McConnell, hundreds of newly robed, right wing federal judges, and with OAN and Newsmax ready to show FoxNews how fascism is really done, some say now is not the time to fight the old guard.

When, then?

[Sympthsical]

96. There's that anti-democracy sentiment again. We're. Not. Republicans.

Why have primaries at all? They're bad for the party! God forbid the people decide.

I see this so often, it baffles me. What, once someone wins, they should be there unchallenged forever except in the general?

I'm not sure what you call that, but in my world, that ain't democracy.

[lapucelle]

130. Maxine Waters

[OneBro]

137. Same-same.

Maxine Waters, John Lewis, AOC and a long list of people have been strong voices for "the people." Is your point that Waters was most popular in her 30 years in Congress, or is there a particularly challenging bill she got passed?

[lapucelle]

138. "Same-same"? What does that even mean?

Someone just needs to explain to A0C that if she too wants to be around for 20 or 30 years, it’s actually quite easy. Moderation, young lady. Moderation. That’s just what we need these days in the Democratic Party. Moderation.

Maxine Waters is a Hard-Core Liberal


So much for the claim that "moderation" is the key to longevity or that it is put forth as a key to either personal or legislative success by the Democratic Party.

[OneBro]

139. You're impressed with 20 to 30 year stays, I'm not.

Whether the person is a hardcore liberal, a moderate, or a right wing nut, if the only thing AOC or anyone else has to brag about after 20+ years is that they've been there for 20 plus years, that's great for them personally, but what's so impressive about that? There likely won't be much light between they way AOC, Lewis or Waters would vote on most bills.

If the point is that the person has been a very vocal member of Congress for all those years, then so what. Same-same. Most of them are vocal. If bills are being passed and the Republican Party is being put in check and held to account, THAT'S progress, but if the republican party grows stronger under your watch because you're too comfy in your seat or too polite to push back, what's so impressive about that. AOC is there to fight. THAT'S how she got her seat, and that's why she has such an energized base.

Some people, for example, want Feinstein clones in Congress, others want AOC clones. I'm of the second camp. Some people think Feinstein owns the seat and has earned the right to die in the seat if she so chooses because she has been there for so long. I disagree. We can acknowledge the good Feinstein has done while also recognizing that the next generation has lost faith in the old guard, and if they want to fight for Feinstein's seat, that does NOT make them enemies of the Democratic Party.

[lapucelle]

140. Why would you assume that I am impressed with something? N/T

[treestar]

118. Isn't that what AOC supporters complain about?

We need younger leaders, AOC is the future, etc., this is the type of thing that makes them mad because the person seniority should not win in their opinion, AOC should.

[unblock]

121. Yeah, seniority is not an absolute, and if anyone should be fast-tracked, it's aoc

But it's an uphill battle going against seniority. If the more senior person wins, that result is unsurprising.

Note, I'm not saying the more senior person *ought* to win every time, I'm just saying it clearly the most likely outcome. Had aoc won this battle, it would have been testament to her clout and effectiveness, or at least her ability to attract attention beyond her years in office.

But losing this battle doesn't mean she did anything wrong or needs to change, it just means she's new.

[StarfishSaver]

128. Why should she be "fast-tracked"?

[unblock]

132. like i've said, she's got great potential. she's doing great for a first-termer.

she's charismatic, a great orator, seems to be popular in a safe district (though redistricting is a threat), and she's already been able to fund-raise not only for herself but also for others, which is quite impressive for a first-termer.

[StarfishSaver]

134. That all may be true

But none of those things is unique to AOC - I'm sure constituents in many other districts would say the same things about their own representative.

But, more important, having charisma, being an effective orator, representing a safe district or being a good fundraiser have very little to do with whether a Member is an effective member of a committee. Not one of those things is an attribute that goes to whether a Member would someone so outstanding they deserve to be leapfrogged over other, more senior Members for a committee slot.

[bigtree]

23. "I'm told" is the source?

to keep from

People should be ashamed spreading this tripe gossip about this Democratic rep, coming from Lord knows where, but that's the demise of shame these days doing it's thing.

[Fiendish Thingy]

25. So she lost to someone who voted against Pelosi, for an opponent from the right wing of the party.

[Budi]

27. I believe she lost because of more significant reasons than that.

As stated in the well written article.


What exactly is "The Right Wing of the Party" ?

[William769]

30. Not AOC.

[NurseJackie]

37. ...

[Budi]

38. Define " Right Wing of the Party"..

I believe we have Dem, Indy, extremes on both ends of the spectrum, & some that move between them all, but I'm pretty sure we do not have a "Right Wing of the Party"

That's an odd definition don't you think?
Ugh

Hey you! & Enjoy the festive season

peace~

[Demsrule86]

54. There is no such thing as the right wing of the party...we have moderate Democrats who win

in red and purple states/and or districts. They can't afford policitally to endorse the same policies as those in safe blue districts can.

[Budi]

58. Yup. All politics is local. As the saying goes..

Thanks
👍

[flamingdem]

29. AOC recently said she might leave politics and live on a farm

I thought hmmm not sure she's all in. She might just take her charisma elsewhere. Politics can be boring and you have to befriend some dullards, yep.

[marie999]

33. Living on a farm, you have less chance of being stabbed in the back than in politics.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

90. Yeah, but a farm, well, it's a whole lot of work. Politics CAN be a lot of work, ...

... or, you can fake it.

[treestar]

120. But you won't have a large effect

on the country. Just your vote.

[aidbo]

31. The more I hear about AOC, the more I like what she's doing.

[AmericanCanuck]

43. You mean you like her tweets?

There are really no legislative accomplishments there.

[NurseJackie]

56. 💥

[aidbo]

61. Everything. I like everything she does.

Including how she makes all the right people mad and jealous.

[aidbo]

75. Ooooh is this a guessing game? Which other leader is it?

I’m not going to guess you’re going to have to say it.

[mcar]

89. "All the right people"

You mean Democrats?

[aidbo]

94. I meant what I wrote.

[AmericanCanuck]

41. Attacking other Democrats and being in bed with Justice Democrats

is not a good action plan if one wants one's legislation passed.

[bigtree]

49. more attacks on AOC here

...strange messaging, coming from folks touting unity.

The attacks on Justice Democrats are self-interested complaints in support of Democrats challenged by other Democrats in our primaries, not exactly the insurrection some proclaim it to be.

Those attacks mostly coming from self-described 'moderates', whose congressional counterparts were the ONLY members to actively and directly challenge Speaker Pelosi's seat.

Like this moderate challenging Speaker Pelosi's seat, THIS WEEK:

Link to tweet

[Bettie]

63. Oddly, the posters who hate AOC with such passion

seem to think this is OK.

[Budi]

66. Those attacks work both ways. Just sayin..

Not a new concept.

[treestar]

119. That's hardly fair; AOC is the one who starts or encourages

lack of unity, so it's quite unfair to then say that pushing back on that means we are fighting unity. That's practically Trumpian. Who is it that criticizes other Democrats rather than Republicans? AOC or her supporters start that stuff. Making her the victim of things she is supposedly so courageous as to say. Other posts say she is so brave fighting for the poor and not the corporations, then when the expected persecution comes in, it's so not fair. The House and especially the Senate will never pass anything progressive when she can't even make peace with Democrats. Republicans exist and have power.

[R B Garr]

141. Exactly. The election is over so no need for this obsession

to go back to the primary attacks which lost so bigly anyway.

[Yavin4]

47. Just wish congressional Dems were as good and effective against Republicans as they are with AOC.

Maybe both sides can learn something from this.

[Budi]

68. I'm currently searching for a list of kudos she's given to the Dems, but coming up short

Perhaps you can help me out here.

Thanks

[Yavin4]

73. Here you go. You're welcome.

‘AOC’ states ‘declaratively’ that she supports Joe Biden over Donald Trump in November

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/aoc-states-declaratively-that-she-supports-joe-biden-over-donald-trump-in-november-2020-04-23

[Budi]

92. That's one.

Still searching...

[Yavin4]

93. Okay. Here's another one.

"Ocasio-Cortez defends Ilhan Omar ahead of vote on resolution to condemn anti-Semitism"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/05/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-defends-ilhan-omar-amid-anti-semitism-charge/3066804002/

[aidbo]

87. Oh, but you see she hasn't heaped enough praise on the old guard.

You know, the ones who say she should sit down and know her place.

They need her to praise them and be their friend and reach out to them if she wants to get anything done, you see?

Do you see? Thats all she needs to do to be accepted into their esteemed ranks. Be nice to them.

[Hortensis]

51. Sure. But she wouldn't have gotten it without earning the respect

of her colleagues and those making committee assignments anyway. Lots of people want on this committee.

She's 1 out of over 200 and still in her first term. And wowing a crowd of admirers, large numbers of whom are drawn by trash talking Democrats (aka "telling truth to power" ), on social media is not quite the same as impressing the colleagues she works with.

[bigtree]

57. never heard this kind of lecturing against moderates who challenged Speaker Pelosi in 2011

...never saw AOC vote against Speaker Pelosi.

2011

Nineteen Democrats, including two members of the California delegation, registered public protest votes against her leadership Wednesday by supporting another Member for Speaker. Overall, 173 Democrats supported Pelosi as House leader, while all 241 Republicans in the new majority backed Rep. John Boehner (Ohio).

The Pelosi defections highlight the work the California Democrat still must do to bring her diverse Caucus together in the wake of the Nov. 2 elections that cost her party House control. Many moderates remain unhappy with her decision to run for Minority Leader in the 112th Congress, thinking it was time for a shake-up at the top. In November, Pelosi beat back what was largely a symbolic challenge from Rep. Heath Shuler for the top Democratic job. Shuler, a leading Blue Dog Democrat from North Carolina, challenged Pelosi again Wednesday, securing 11 votes including his own. He got the backing of Reps. Jason Altmire (Pa.), Dan Boren (Okla.), Jim Cooper (Tenn.), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Tim Holden (Pa.), Larry Kissell (N.C.), Jim Matheson (Utah), Mike McIntyre (N.C.), Mike Michaud (Maine) and Mike Ross (Ark.).

https://www.rollcall.com/2011/01/05/pelosis-splintered-support-goes-on-display/

...and here comes Democratic moderate Elizabeth Slotkin, refusing to vote for Speaker Pelosi THIS YEAR without a peep from these heroes saving our party from AOC:

Democratic congresswoman takes aim at Nancy Pelosi: 'We need new leadership'

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi continues to take fire from members of her own caucus, as Michigan Rep. Elissa Slotkin is now stating she will not vote for the San Francisco Democrat in Pelosi's bid for another team as Speaker of the House.

“I will not be voting for Nancy Pelosi,” Slotkin told Politico. “I have no idea if people are gonna run against her, or who might run against her. And I will of course have this conversation directly with her. But I believe we need new leadership. I would love to see more Midwesterners, because if you look across the leadership. … I respect these people, but it’s New York and California.”

Slotkin, who flipped the red district that encompasses Lansing in 2018 and won re-election in 2020, sharply criticized her party's messaging ahead of the 2020 election. She stated that the party's lack of a central message left House incumbents vulnerable to Republican attacks on "defund the police" and "socialism."

“The brand of the national Democratic Party is mushy," she said. "People don’t know what we stand for, what we’re about. So, every two years when the new flavor of attack comes out, it’s easy to convince a portion of the population that those attacks are true, because they still don’t know our brand."

[Cuthbert Allgood]

59. This went about as expected.

[Newest Reality]

64. Transparency?

That secret vote thing would have to stop if we are to have honest government and less speculation about what went on.

That would be a start, at least.

[NurseJackie]

65. I'm fine with the secret ballot on matters like this. It's a committee assignment...

... not legislation. And from what I can tell, those voting appear to have issues regarding trust and retaliation. Whether imagined or real, the fact that they feel that way at all and that they'd worry about such things... well... it's not a good sign. Other than that, it's probably best if I kept my thoughts to myself and not elaborate too much.

That secret vote thing would have to stop if we are to have honest government and less speculation about what went on.

Sounds like a straight-up binary vote to me. (ie: "Who do you choose? [x]Rice [ ]AOC" ) Do you think it was dishonest or "rigged" in some way. What kind of legitimate "speculation" could there be? I doubt there was ballot stuffing going on or anything else that would be illegal or unethical. It's wrong to suggest otherwise.

[Newest Reality]

67. Well,

I was speaking generally and I agree with your points.

[NurseJackie]

69. Thanks for the clarification.

[Newest Reality]

71. You're welcome!

[Happy Hoosier]

72. Politics is persuasion.

If she wants influence, she will have to build coalitions with people she doesn't necessarily agree with. Your colleagues have to like you, and trust your judgment, even if THEY don't necessarily agree with you.

Poking people in the eye and publicly criticizing them is not a great approach IMO. She is smart. She is charismatic. She has to a develop a head for politics, however.

[NurseJackie]

79. Time may be running out. If her very safe district is redrawn, she'll be less competitive...

... and would likely lose if she had to compete elsewhere or in a more diverse district. Winning statewide would be a very tough row to hoe as well. And looking elsewhere in the state, she'd likely not have the type of broad appeal needed to win something like mayor of NYC.

She recently hinted that she wanted to get out of politics... and even if she was only half-serious, that's really not the kind of thing that one says if they expect others to commit to investing in her (whether it's a financial investment or an investment of time and personal growth and career polishing and mentoring) ... if she's already thinking about moving on, then that's a red flag to anyone who may think that they don't want to waste their time.

[JCMach1]

76. Would we even be talking about her if she wasn't a Rep. In THE major media market?

Asking for a friend

[NurseJackie]

83. Your friend is very insightful.

Your friend is very insightful.

[JCMach1]

99. Don't read my response wrong... I like her. I just think there are more

Consequential House members who came in at the same time, but don't live in the NYC media market

[NurseJackie]

102. Okay.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. It is what it is

My opinion . . . Katie Porter is the standard bearer for 'disruptive risk taking brave firebrand' member of congress -

But -

she doesn't encourage primaries against her Democratic Team members in the House.

[NurseJackie]

84. That's a big consideration, isn't it?

[GeorgeGist]

82. Axios?

[NurseJackie]

86. Hang on! Let me check.

Axios?

Hang on! Let me check.

Yep, Axios.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/axios/

LEFT-CENTER BIAS

These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources.

Overall, we rate Axios just Left of Center biased based on story selection that slightly favors the left. They are High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and zero failed fact checks.

[Cha]

124. LOL@ your Reality Check!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

91. Is there something wrong with choosing Kathleen Rice? What is she, chopped liver? nt

[Mariana]

127. Maybe the OP doesn't think Rep. Rice deserves the position own her own merits.

The quotes in the story posted in the OP certainly seem to imply that the only reason Rice received it is because of the negative feelings of the voting Representatives toward Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.

[lapucelle]

133. Neither the OP nor the Axios story implies that "the only reason Rice received it"

was because of negative feelings towards A0C. There is no language in the article that would allow such an inference to be made. Why would anyone assume that it is being made?

That type of thinking is so logically dubious that it has a name: causal reductionism.

[BainsBane]

95. Those are the natural consequences of her behavior

She can be the queen of Twitter, but it hurts her chances to advance in the party.
People need to earn loyalty and trust. She repels it.

It's too bad because if she didn't spend so much time expressing her antipathy toward the party and fellow Democrats, she could be a good congresswoman. She, however, has chosen a different path, one that leaves her able to accomplish little for her constituents.

[NurseJackie]

98. You are absolutely correct in those observations and in your explanation of consequences.

As I indicated elsewhere in this thread, it may very well be that she's missed her opportunity to learn and develop and to form alliances, relationships and partnerships that are stronger and more meaningful than made-for-TV (or made-for-twitter) tag-team "Squad" stuff. Finding common ground and being willing to seek out compromise if it means progress is also a valuable skill to have.

So, it could be that for her time may be running out. If her very safe district is redrawn, she'll be less competitive and would likely lose if she had to compete elsewhere or in a more diverse district. Winning statewide would be a very tough row to hoe as well. And looking elsewhere in the state, she'd likely not have the type of broad appeal needed to win something like mayor of NYC.

Furthermore, she recently hinted that she wanted to get out of politics. And even if she was only half-serious, that's really not the kind of thing that one says if they expect others to commit to investing in her (whether it's a financial investment or an investment of time and personal growth and career polishing and mentoring) ... if she's already thinking about moving on, then that's a red flag to anyone who may think that they don't want to waste their time.

[betsuni]

103. Yes, saying you don't know if you want to be in politics might give the impression

of a lack of enthusiasm for the job as it is, not what one would like it to be.

I don't think repeating that if she and Joe Biden were in a different country they'd be in different parties, his the "neoliberal party ... a party that's kind of corporate consensus but not socially regressive" is a good idea. Calling the leader of the Democratic Party a neoliberal corporatist ... I just don't understand why a Democrat would say such a thing.

[NurseJackie]

104. Those types of smears on the Democratic party (and leadership and candidates) ...

... certainly didn't help Bernie Sanders' political aspirations (beyond Vermont, anyway). There are many lessons to be learned by observing the mistakes of others, and doing one's best to avoid making the same ones, or falling into the same traps. And by the same token, there are many lessons to be learned by watching (and emulating) the most successful in our party. Many times I've posted messages that advised our party members to ask themselves WWND? ... and then do that.

Her success is no accident. She knows what she's doing and she's got what it takes!

[betsuni]

109. That's the thing, those smears serve no purpose, this has been demonstrated.

Not the way to succeed. It was trendy for a few years, but it's 2020! The claim that there are vast ideological differences between Democrats and that there are no economic policy differences between the two parties is false.

My favorite Tweet response to calling Biden a neoliberal: "Once more with feeling: neoliberal is a real word and it has a meaning. It doesn't just mean 'Democrats who are not progressive enough for me.' Ronald Reagan was a neoliberal. Joe Biden is not."

[DFW]

97. She has the innate intellectual brilliance and seems to have the personality to go either way

She could end up being the next Nancy Pelosi (times 2) or the next Bella Abzug.

It seems she is torn between the two paths, which is a shame. With her talents, I would think the choice is obvious.
She could run this all the way to Oval Office in twenty years--or to that farm.

[George II]

100. That's an excellent observation. Bella Abzug had a flair, but a way of alienating some....

....even in her own party. And her ego got the best of her after three terms in the House. She decided to run for Senate against Daniel Patrick Moynahan, but lost to him in the primary. She then lost three or four attempts for election to the House again in other districts, and also lost her mayoral bid.

Her entire career in elective office lasted a mere six years.

Overall she was very popular, but not so with the voters and her colleagues.

[DFW]

106. Running against Pat Moynihan in the primary was a foolish move

Pat Moynihan was a brilliant man (more so when sober, somewhat less so when not*), and had few intellectual equals in the Senate. Running against him in his prime in a primary was political suicide. I don't know what made her think she could dislodge him from the nomination, but she was in Fantasyland if she thought she had a chance.

*One time at a Gridiron Club dinner, Moynihan had already had a few, and we were sitting right in front of the podium, where Bill Clinton had already placed his copy of his speech (which was brilliant, of course). Before the Secret Service guy could stop him, Moynihan jumped up to the podium, and grabbed Clinton's speech and started reviewing it. Clinton noticed and blew up at the Secret Service guy, who was already in a foul mood because my dad, who was charged with giving them their code names that night, had called him (out of boredom, we assumed) "Plácido Flamingo."

[George II]

108. At the time she was a 3-term member of Congress, that was Moynihan's first try at elected office.

So maybe she thought she had a leg up in experience and campaigning. But she was a local NYC politician, and the Senate is a state-wide office.

There were stories that Ted Kennedy, Chris Dodd, and Pat Moynihan were good, and frequent, drinking buddies. Don't know if that is true or not.

That story is great, you must have heard a bunch of them!

[DFW]

112. I was right there, two feet away from Moynihan when he did that. He was pretty sloshed.

He was still fairly coherent (I guess what they say about the Irish is true), but sloshed nonetheless.

But for most of them, you're right, I heard them from my dad or other Washington types. Helen Thomas was a treasure trove, and Norm Ornstein is a walking anthology.

As for going out with Dodd and Teddy Kennedy, that I wouldn't know. I didn't know Teddy or JFK, only Bobby, and he seemed pretty straight. My dad knew him well (first name basis, etc.), I only slightly.

Bella bit off more than she could chew with challenging Pat. I guess she thought she could do anything after winning three terms in the House. But she quickly found out that New York State is a hell of a lot bigger than her safe corner of New York City, and that miscalculation was her undoing politically. The talk shows still liked her, but the voters didn't.

[Lucinda]

115. She is brilliant. She needs to cultivate some wisdom though.

She WILL get there if she chooses to....
She is pretty amazing.

[NurseJackie]

116. Not necessarily... time is running short.

As I indicated elsewhere in this thread, it may very well be that she's missed her opportunity to "cultivate some wisdom" (if I may borrow your words) and to learn and develop and to form alliances, relationships and partnerships that are stronger and more meaningful than made-for-TV (or made-for-twitter) tag-team "Squad" stuff. Finding common ground and being willing to seek out compromise if it means progress is also a valuable skill to have.

So, it could be that for her time may be running out. If her very safe district is redrawn, she'll be less competitive and would likely lose if she had to compete elsewhere or in a more diverse district. Winning statewide would be a very tough row to hoe as well. And looking elsewhere in the state, she'd likely not have the type of broad appeal needed to win something like mayor of NYC.

Furthermore, she recently hinted that she wanted to get out of politics. And even if she was only half-serious, that's really not the kind of thing that one says if they expect others to commit to investing in her (whether it's a financial investment or an investment of time and personal growth and career polishing and mentoring) ... if she's already thinking about moving on, then that's a red flag to anyone who may think that they don't want to waste their time.

[drmeow]

122. This has been a concern

for me about her since day 1. I love what she stands for but that corky, "ok, boomer" attitude doesn't play well in the seats of power. She's smart and savvy, though, she'll figure it out.

This is also why I don't support term limits. It takes time to build relationships and to learn how governing works (it's not just writing laws). Term limits can hamstring the AOCs of this world. We need to get rid of dark money in politics - that will resolve many of the problems people think will be solved by term limits.

[ripcord]

125. Hopefully she will take the lesson that her collegues don't trust her

And she will build on that.

[Jamaal510]

135. K&R