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tenderfoot

(8,421 posts)
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 12:45 PM Dec 2020

Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill to Block Abortion of Fetuses Capable of Feeling Pain

"But she is a progressive, statist!!!" - a right wing extremist supporter of her
Can't wait for the same ones who defend her transphobic legislation to defend her anti abortion stance.
This is just validating what we said about her. Anyone remember what we said about Biden and Kamala ?
Buckle up.

https://news.yahoo.com/tulsi-gabbard-introduces-bill-block-191930470.html

Representative Tulsi Gabbard (D., Hawaii) introduced a bill on Wednesday that would outlaw abortions for fetuses capable of feeling pain.

The pro-life group Democrats for Life in America announced the content of the bill on Facebook and in an online petition. While the bill has been submitted to the House, its full text was not immediately available, and it was not clear what week of pregnancy Gabbard’s bill designates as the limit for obtaining an abortion. Similar legislation has designated the 20th week of pregnancy as the cutoff.

“Former Democratic Presidential Candidate Tulsi Gabbard introduced her SECOND Pro-Life bill this week, which would amend Title 18 of the U.S. code to give pain-capable fetuses rights under the law,” DFLA wrote on Facebook. “Tulsi has previously voted against this bill three times, but is now the SPONSOR of the new bill. This is proof that DFLA can convince Democrats to join the right side of history.”

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Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill to Block Abortion of Fetuses Capable of Feeling Pain (Original Post) tenderfoot Dec 2020 OP
The good news is that Gabbard is retiring from public service. n/t Eyeball_Kid Dec 2020 #1
When people show you who they are... mcar Dec 2020 #2
Hillary was right. Wasn't she? NurseJackie Dec 2020 #21
Sure was mcar Dec 2020 #26
No. We should just carry them to term so they can be starved, neglected, beaten and left hlthe2b Dec 2020 #3
So this is her swan song? dalton99a Dec 2020 #4
Tulsi Introduces Bill That Demands All Chilren Are Well Fed & In Good Homes Me. Dec 2020 #5
Now, this is pro-life. Lunabell Dec 2020 #12
Well Done! Cha Dec 2020 #40
Bet You're Glad She's Out Me. Dec 2020 #46
I'm OverJoyed! Tweet from Rep Elect Kai Kahele.. Cha Dec 2020 #47
... Me. Dec 2020 #50
No.. Cha Dec 2020 #52
... Me. Dec 2020 #53
Yahoo is still around? pwb Dec 2020 #6
anyone else find it completely insane......... Takket Dec 2020 #7
+1 CrispyQ Dec 2020 #14
When she was running in the primaries agincourt Dec 2020 #8
She sure is a moderate Republican. Autumn Dec 2020 #9
Well well. ismnotwasm Dec 2020 #10
Thus proving that repukes don't have a lock on stupidity RainCaster Dec 2020 #11
That asshole has a seat in the House till January. Is she trying out for RW media again? irisblue Dec 2020 #18
That doesn't sound like something a Democrat would do. MineralMan Dec 2020 #13
Thankfully, a REAL Democrat will replace her shortly. . . DinahMoeHum Dec 2020 #15
Yes. Wonderful! MineralMan Dec 2020 #16
Yes! I just posted Kai Kahele's Tweet above.. Cha Dec 2020 #49
Gah... sakabatou Dec 2020 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author grobertj Dec 2020 #19
Safe, legal and rare? That's what abortions after 21 weeks are -- at least, in 25 states. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #20
Your comment that "Restricting abortion will always grobertj Dec 2020 #27
It's an opinion supported by peer-reviewed evidence. LanternWaste Dec 2020 #33
As m'learned friend Lantern Waste says, it's an objective standard. WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #41
Now wait a goddamned minute. Codeine Dec 2020 #43
As a male Democrat I can't support Codeine Dec 2020 #22
Post removed Post removed Dec 2020 #28
No, it most assuredly isn't murder. Codeine Dec 2020 #36
If it's murder because a person wants an abortion the day before the due date for any reason, how is WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #42
I agree Dirty Socialist Dec 2020 #23
I know there are. Extreme positions on abortion rights make it impossible grobertj Dec 2020 #32
Evangelical and social conservatives Codeine Dec 2020 #38
Those Evangelicals and Social Conservatives are RAcists hiding behind Religion. THey cheer on brown JI7 Dec 2020 #51
We're a secular nation. Turin_C3PO Dec 2020 #24
I was explaining my position. But killing a viable fetus is murder. grobertj Dec 2020 #30
I don't agree that it's murder. Turin_C3PO Dec 2020 #31
Post removed Post removed Dec 2020 #34
If you're against it, don't have one. phylny Dec 2020 #25
Post removed Post removed Dec 2020 #29
You will of course, support that premise with objective evidence, yes? LanternWaste Dec 2020 #35
It is not murder. Codeine Dec 2020 #44
It's not. phylny Dec 2020 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author ahoysrcsm Dec 2020 #48
I support the full range of women's necessary medical care. When women are denied medical care.... Hekate Dec 2020 #54
Go home, Tulsi! LeftInTX Dec 2020 #37
One last tick on the resume for her OANN application Tarc Dec 2020 #39
Uh-huh jmowreader Dec 2020 #55

hlthe2b

(101,534 posts)
3. No. We should just carry them to term so they can be starved, neglected, beaten and left
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 12:52 PM
Dec 2020

as unwanted chattel for Republicans unwilling to deliver any help to care for, educate them post-partum. Because we all know neonates, toddlers, adolescents, teens, and adults can't feel pain or suffering.

Takket

(21,353 posts)
7. anyone else find it completely insane.........
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 01:02 PM
Dec 2020

that lame duck legislatures that are out of a job in January are even allowed to submit new legislation?

agincourt

(1,996 posts)
8. When she was running in the primaries
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 01:07 PM
Dec 2020

I would watch some of her videos. She would blink at an unusually high rate, guess that old adage that deceivers blink a lot when they talk was true after all.

RainCaster

(10,585 posts)
11. Thus proving that repukes don't have a lock on stupidity
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 01:28 PM
Dec 2020

It will be interesting to see how her bill defines "pain capable", and how that squares with medical knowledge.

Response to tenderfoot (Original post)

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,094 posts)
20. Safe, legal and rare? That's what abortions after 21 weeks are -- at least, in 25 states.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 05:41 PM
Dec 2020

Abortions after 21 weeks make up about 1 percent of all abortions, and the main reasons people get them are fetal anomalies, health of the pregnant person, and less common but more importantly, delay in access.

"Viability" is a moving target and creates barriers. "Late term abortion" also means different things to different people. Restricting abortion will always hurt the people who need them. Always.

grobertj

(187 posts)
27. Your comment that "Restricting abortion will always
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:22 PM
Dec 2020

hurt the people who need them" is your opinion, not a fact.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
33. It's an opinion supported by peer-reviewed evidence.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:31 PM
Dec 2020

Making it less an opinion but rather, more an objective standard within the social sciences.

But I'm confident you'll support your own opinions with peer-reviewed evidence to better support them as well as your own arguments, yes?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,094 posts)
41. As m'learned friend Lantern Waste says, it's an objective standard.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:58 PM
Dec 2020

Requiring admitting privileges at hospitals -- a restriction -- closed clinics, restricting access. People who have to travel for access have to pay money for travel, day/s off, maybe hotels. In my state, a minor who wants an abortion needs permission for both parents. If that's not possible, a judge decides. But all of that rigamarole means delay, making it harder to get an abortion. Every restriction you name hurts people who want abortions.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
43. Now wait a goddamned minute.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 09:09 PM
Dec 2020

How on earth can you characterize the assertion that restricting access to health care harms those who require said health care as an opinion?! That’s just a straight up fact.

Restricting access to dental care harms those who need dental care. Restricting access to cancer screenings harms those who require them. Surely you wouldn’t characterize those statements as “opinions”, so why does the conversation suddenly change when the subject is reproductive care?

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
22. As a male Democrat I can't support
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 07:23 PM
Dec 2020

any law that fucks with someone else’s reproductive decisions. Your religion doesn’t override the rights of those around you.

Response to Codeine (Reply #22)

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
36. No, it most assuredly isn't murder.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:46 PM
Dec 2020

It’s a legal medical procedure (thus, by definition, not “murder”) and it’s none of your damned business. Your Bronze Age philosophies are of no consequence in a discussion of medicine.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,094 posts)
42. If it's murder because a person wants an abortion the day before the due date for any reason, how is
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:59 PM
Dec 2020

it not murder if a person gets an abortion when there are anomalies that would result in "natural death" 10 minutes after birth?

Dirty Socialist

(3,244 posts)
23. I agree
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 07:28 PM
Dec 2020

Safe, legal and rare. And there are a lot more people than you think that would agree with you.

grobertj

(187 posts)
32. I know there are. Extreme positions on abortion rights make it impossible
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:29 PM
Dec 2020

to reach evangelicals and other social conservatives.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
38. Evangelical and social conservatives
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:48 PM
Dec 2020

aren’t going to vote for Democrats anyway. Should we also throw the LGBTQ+ community under the bus in your new quest for support from the far right?

JI7

(89,151 posts)
51. Those Evangelicals and Social Conservatives are RAcists hiding behind Religion. THey cheer on brown
Sun Dec 20, 2020, 12:49 AM
Dec 2020

kids being taken from parents and put in cages.

Turin_C3PO

(13,574 posts)
31. I don't agree that it's murder.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:29 PM
Dec 2020

And as a male, I’m certainly in no position to tell a woman they must carry a fetus to term if they choose not to.

Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #31)

phylny

(8,343 posts)
25. If you're against it, don't have one.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 07:48 PM
Dec 2020

Problem solved. Otherwise, it's not your business what a woman and her physician decide.

Response to phylny (Reply #25)

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
35. You will of course, support that premise with objective evidence, yes?
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 08:34 PM
Dec 2020

As we've all heard the bumper stickers, it seems a good time to rise above slogans and support our hypotheses with peer-reviewed research.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
44. It is not murder.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 09:10 PM
Dec 2020

It’s a medical procedure of compelling interest to nobody other the patient and her health care provider.

phylny

(8,343 posts)
45. It's not.
Sat Dec 19, 2020, 09:21 PM
Dec 2020

I have worked with babies who have had massive birth defects - things most people don't see, things that may cause you to avert your eyes. Blind, deaf, malformed, without the ability to suck to get any comfort because there is no real face. Uncontrollable seizures, pumped full of medicine and formula to keep them alive with horrible side effects. Constantly needing to be suctioned to live.

Suctioned all day and all night.

Screaming in pain, alive with virtually no pleasure, only pain.

Yes, some parents of these children chose to continue their pregnancy, and because medical intervention can keep many babies alive, but not living, the baby pays every day until they die. It's the pregnant woman's choice. Just like some choose not to abort and it works out and everyone is grateful, some choose not to abort and the effects of their decisions, with massive medical bills to match that bankrupt and exhaust families, are horrific.

Some others choose, with the help and advice of medical professionals, to abort. People have the right to make the choice that you may not agree with, but that may be the most compassionate and humane choice to be made in their particular case. Trust me, no one celebrates that choice late in a pregnancy. No one.

Response to grobertj (Reply #19)

Hekate

(89,976 posts)
54. I support the full range of women's necessary medical care. When women are denied medical care....
Sun Dec 20, 2020, 01:42 AM
Dec 2020

...women die.

You don’t get to argue, based on your religion, what gets left out.

If it helps you, let me assure you that no perfect full-term Gerber Babies are being aborted.

Incidentally, in a democracy your religion is not the only one, and it is not the only yardstick for secular laws, which are ethically based. You are free to practice your religion, as I am to practice mine. (If you don't believe in abortion, by all means don’t have one.)

My Goddess encourages thoughtful decision-making, freedom of conscience, and the full range of women’s necessary medical care. I would never force someone who didn’t want an abortion to have one, no matter how stupid I thought that decision might be (there are women with life-threatening medical conditions who defy medical advice and continue a pregnancy, knowing it could kill them and leave their other children orphaned — but it’s not my decision).

Other religions in this country also encourage thoughtful decision-making and freedom of conscience. The basic Buddhist tenet of ahimsa has been used to query Buddhist sages about the issue of abortion — and the answer has been that a woman’s life must also be considered under that rubric, and that she needs to be able to decide for herself what will cause harm to her.

If you want other examples, know that there are quite a few sects of America’s Jewish and Christian communities that are pro-choice, and I can name them.

Peace.

Hekate

jmowreader

(50,419 posts)
55. Uh-huh
Sun Dec 20, 2020, 01:54 AM
Dec 2020

In other words, she's celebrating the demise of her political career by morphing into a Republican.

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