Let's talk about AOC.

[panader0]

She's the young firebrand progressive first elected in 2018 in district 14 of New York.
She was the youngest woman to become a Representative and won her district with 78.2%
of the vote. In 2020 she won 71.6% of the vote in her district. So apparently she's much
loved and respected there.
She's very smart, and when she was a senior in high school she had an asteroid named after her
by the MIT Lincoln Laboratory. She went on to graduate cum laude with degrees in International
Studies and Economics. While in college she interned for Ted Kennedy.
She's had hardships, there was no silver spoon for her. Her grandfather died from causes related
to Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico.
She has also been outspoken to the point of irritating people. The Republicans hate or fear her,
which is where hate comes from. But I am surprised to see so much animus for her on this board.
She recently stated that Speaker Pelosi and Minority Leader Schumer should go. Personally, I
disagree on this point. I consider Pelosi an outstanding Speaker (not as sure about Schumer).
Pelosi will be a big help to the new administration, but has herself admitted she only wants to
be Speaker for two more years.
She got the vaccine. I have seen many posts about her calling this "disgusting". I don't agree on that one.
I think all of our legislators should be vaccinated, even the Rs. They are essential workers after all.
She has much to learn but I have no doubt that she will "learn the ropes" in the House.
In the Terms of Service of DU, it states, " ..we do expect members to be generally progressive."
AOC certainly is progressive. The TOS also states: "Support Democrats, and Don't bash Democratic
public figures."
So. I'm asking those here who do bash her, pretty much daily, why they do so.
What is it about this rising star in our party that grates against you?

[orwell]

1. She's young...

...and she'll learn with experience. She has a bright future if she learns to be more strategic in her messaging and learns to build power through working political coalitions.

In a recent interview on the Intercept Jeremy Scahill was trying to goad her into some real anti-democratic party rhetoric that she might have fallen for a year ago. I was surprised to hear her moderate her views somewhat showing a growing sense of realism about what can and can't be accomplished in the short and long term.

It is one thing to be a flame-throwing firebrand, it is quite another to craft legislation that can actually be passed, build working majorities, and maintain consistent messaging to the mostly politically detached public.

[panader0]

2. Agreed.

She is impatient with the processes. I too think our government in general needs an
overhaul. trump's BS has shown some shortcomings in the way things are done.
Our Constitution is, and should be, a living document to be improved on.

[brush]

32. Much potential but she needs to distance herself from the self-avowed stance...

of being a democratic socialist. That was a mistake. Being a progressive is one thing, being a self-declared socialist is just taking on unnecessary baggage that weighs her and our party down because socialism is viewed as toxic by millions in the country. Why take that on?

The other thing is trying to primary other incumbent Democrats, not the best way to make friends and influence people/Democratic colleagues (see her being outvoted badly for the coveted environmental committee post she wanted).

Once she gets past these initial stumbles, the sky's the limit for her.

[Chakaconcarne]

88. Not a mistake at all IMO.

There are tons of voters that support her and the party needs that representation.

[brush]

100. We lost 12 house seats because republicans tagged their Dem opponents as...

as radical socialists aligned with AOC. It's reality. She should distance herself from socialism, and as far as having many supporters, sure, in deep blue districts but the seats we lost were the ones we flipped in 2018 in borderline, suburban, red districts.

We almost lost our majority in the House. I repeat, being a progressive is positive. Being a self-avowed socialist is negative baggage that doesn't play in most of the country. And obviously it doesn't play we.. in the House as she was outvoted badly in Steering Committee vote for the environmental committee seat she wanted.

The object is to win elections to put in our policies. Alienating millions of voters by associating our party with an ideology that's considered toxic is just not smart. She'll learn, and once she does, she'll do well.

[PatrickforO]

92. That is only because Republicans have poisoned that word. Most people don't even

know what socialism even means, or what it looks like on the ground.

This so-called 'socialism' in Venezuela, Fidel's Cuba and some of the other Central and South American countries is nothing but a strongman type of dictatorship, whether it is the right-wing guy in Brazil or somebody who came to power as a socialist then became a dictator.

Either extreme left OR extreme right takes you around the ideological world to meet at dictatorship. I mean, think about Stalin, or Mao, or Kim Jung On in N. Korea. Are (were) they left wing? Right wing? Or just plain robber barons who took control of their nations for the sake of amassing wealth and power?

The right wing sure has created a knee-jerk 'sosh-a-lizm is toxic' reaction, though. For sure. I mean how in the blue heck did Trump get the Cuban vote in Miami except on the Biden socialism = Castro socialism lie?

I suspect you are right. Progressive is the right title for us to assume, I think.

Your last line is right on. AOC needs to learn that while people on the fringe change the dialog over the years, nothing really gets accomplished except by those in the middle two-thirds of the Bell Curve.

[birdographer]

96. Completely agree

It's an age/experience thing. Maybe a touch of ego from all the attention.

[questionseverything]

127. Listen to post 120

She worked on 14 pieces that became law

[CrispyQ]

3. I love AOC. She can be a little brash, but I'm glad she speaks out.

The liberal wing of the party has been told to keep quiet for decades. We're told that America isn't liberal, by both republicans & democrats. And yet when I show that Joe Conservative essay to my republican family & friends & ask them what they disagree with, they don't say anything. Why? Because deep down they want their food, drinking water, & medications to be safe. They want their bank account insured. They want affordable education & healthcare for their family. They like their weekends & paid holidays. The like their Social Security & Medicare. We need to remind them who got those things for them. It sure wasn't the republicans.

Instead of telling the left wing of the party that America isn't liberal, maybe we should educate Americans & show them just how liberal they are. Our side has ignored hate radio for 40 years & we still do. This is where the unreasonable hatred of democrats started & now it's morphed into an entire media machine. This nation will remain divided until our side acknowledges the danger that the right wing media machine has become & challenges their lies.

Where are the Lincoln Project ads sponsored by the DNC?

[panader0]

8. These days the Eisenhower platform would be considered "liberal" by Rs.

The Democrats have drifted slowly away from liberalism to centrism.
I admire AOC a lot. I can't figure out why some here don't like her. It can't be that
she's young (a huge vote getter), or a female, or have Puerto Rican heritage, so what is it?

[CrispyQ]

21. Any criticism of the party is considered bashing by a lot of people.

The way I see it. part of the reason we're where we're at, is because our side wasn't doing something right. This mess is not all on the other side. Most of it, sure, but I just never see much push back from our side. The right has been more successful in defining the dems than we have.

[PatrickforO]

93. Exactly. Like Bernie points out, when you look at these so-called

lib-er-al sosh-a-list policies the 'far left' is trying to advance, you find that over 50% of Americans want those things. Nobody is saying we want to support people who aren't willing to work, but what we are saying is that it shouldn't be as hard as it is to get ahead, and certainly not for minorities. We need a level playing field, and policies that create more social mobility. Because right now, if you look at our GINI coefficient, we leave a bunch to be desired.

[treestar]

173. Kept quiet?

[NurseJackie]

4. Ridiculous. Nobody is bashing anyone here.

So. I'm asking those here who do bash her, pretty much daily, why they do so.

Ridiculous. Nobody is bashing anyone here.

[BannonsLiver]

11. It's interesting how suddenly

All these people are fine with Marco Rubio getting it. That’s not how I remember it playing out the other day when he was vaccinated. Quite the opposite, actually.

I wonder what’s changed?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

18. You mean the guy who fought against the impact of COVID?

That guy. Yeah, fuck him. Though, I agree all of Congress should get it. But if we are going to limit it or be pissed at some of them getting it, it should be the ones that did little to help contain it along the way.

Maybe that's changed.

[BannonsLiver]

25. There's really no reason to limit it to just one or two reasons to get pissed at them.

I have many more than that.

[George II]

118. When it comes to the vaccine, why isn't anyone talking about Ilhan Omar? She has a great......

.....perspective on who should get it and who shouldn't at this time.

Ilhan Omar Defers Vaccine Offer, Says It’s ‘Shameful’ Congress Gets Priority

“People who need it most, should get it,” said the Minnesota Democrat.

Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) slammed the prioritization of the COVID-19 vaccine for members of Congress, saying she won’t get the shot that’s being made available to lawmakers because it should first go to “people who need it most.”

Link to tweet

Omar, a first-term lawmaker whose father died from complications of the coronavirus in June, tweeted Sunday it was “shameful” that politicians are in line to receive the vaccine before workers on the frontlines of the pandemic “who are making sacrifices everyday.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ilhan-omar-covid-19-vaccine_n_5fe1b55cc5b66809cb2d37fa

[Cuthbert Allgood]

166. As a teacher, I appreciate her position.

I also really like her as a person and politician.

Also as a teacher, I still feel our government needs to get it early so that we can keep that government running (as dysfunctional as it has been the last 4 years).

[panader0]

14. Why do you dislike her Nurse Jackie?

[NurseJackie]

30. LOL! You know perfectly well that I never said such a thing.

Why do you dislike her Nurse Jackie?

LOL! You know perfectly well that I never said such a thing.

[Dem4Life1102]

46. So you do like AOC then

Good to know

[NurseJackie]

48. Lulz!

You know perfectly well that I never said such a thing.

[Dem4Life1102]

50. Well if you don't dislike someone

that means you must like them.

[NurseJackie]

53. I live in the real world.. not a binary, or black-and-white world.

Well if you don't dislike someone hat means you must like them.

Absurd silliness. I live in the real world.. not a binary world, or black-and-white world. I view the world with an adult's eyes from an adult perspective. It's a world where indifference doesn't mean "hate" or "like".

[Dem4Life1102]

56. Indifference???

[Don1]

253. example

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100214729467#post5

[Dem4Life1102]

254. Example of what?

[Don1]

255. not indifference. n/t

[Celerity]

259. Indeed.

[whopis01]

81. That's not correct

Like:
to feel attraction toward or take pleasure in


Dislike:
a feeling of aversion or disapproval
(that's the noun version, obviously - the verb definition is to regard with dislike)


There are plenty of people I neither like nor dislike.


(Definitions from Merriam Webster)

[Dem4Life1102]

101. Very true

[Codeine]

111. It means no such thing.

That’s logically absurd.

[Dem4Life1102]

117. Logically?

[George II]

123. What? There are probably millions of people in this country about whom I have NO opinion...

There's some farmer out in Iowa that I never met. I don't dislike him. So I must like him?

[Dem4Life1102]

128. And never heard of either

[Skittles]

138. tip for you

you can admire someone and STILL think they make mistakes

[Dem4Life1102]

145. Very true

[George II]

139. Damned if you do..........pour me another drink.

[George II]

121. Reminds me of that ol' question asked during the bush administration. If you didn't agree 100%...

...with what they said, the question was "Why do you hate America?"

[Skittles]

142. yup

it is disturbing to see that kind of rationale here

[George II]

122. And that follow up question from someone else is even more typical of that era.

[Codeine]

109. See, that right there,

that’s why we can’t engage honestly on this issue.

[Demsrule86]

17. Careful Jackie... some want a certain response... for their own reasons...we know this.

[paleotn]

58. .........

Whaaaa?

[NurseJackie]

60. I know, right?! Absurd, isn't it? There's no bashing going on! Ridiculous!

[paleotn]

68. Other than the occasional bash-o-rama when it comes to various Dems...

...No. No bashing here whatsoever.

[PatrickforO]

97. Yeah, to be honest I have seen some pretty negative statements about AOC

on here over time, not necessarily from you, but there are people on here who almost always have something negative to say when AOC comes up.

I think she pissed some party functionaries on here off, big time, when she primaried the fellow she defeated from the left. He was headed for a bigger role in Congress, but apparently the people in her district felt she could represent them better. 71%+ in her second term general is pretty good. She just needs to wise up about some of the stuff she says.

Plus, I really like her suggestion that our party needs to do some deep canvassing about racism, social justice, healthcare and the rest of our platform issues. Educating people away from this right wing noise machine is a pretty urgent issue. I think we need a new 21st century Fairness Doctrine so at least labels can be put on those right wing radio hate-shows. Listen to that crap four or five years a couple hours a day, and these people are spittle-spraying xenophobes.

[world wide wally]

72. Actually, I confess.

I bash Trump a lot here.

[Skittles]

137. didn't you get the memo?

you can only say good things!

[NurseJackie]

143. I didn't receive the official memo... but it's not difficult to figure out.

[sheshe2]

169. ;)

He's making a list,
He's checking it twice,
He's gonna find out who's naughty or nice
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees you when you're sleeping
And he knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake

You better watch out!
You better not cry
You better not pout, I'm telling you why
'Cause Santa Claus is coming to town
Oh let's go!

Bruce is da Boss.

Merry Christmas, NJ.

[treestar]

174. It's bashing not to worship AOC, yet OK for AOC

to bash Democrats. When she has never had to deal with Republicans - she didn't even win the election against one!

[BannonsLiver]

5. Let's not, and say we did.

[Peacetrain]

9. You beat me to it!

I swear that was exactly what I was going to post

[NurseJackie]

35. You beat me to saying "you beat me to it".

I was going to post what YOU replied.

[Peacetrain]

36. Oh Lord Jackie..

[panader0]

12. Come on BL, let it go. Say your piece.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Let what go?

Why are you so invested in what other people think of AOC or any other politician for that matter? It’s kinda weird, to be honest. If you’re a fan then great. But don’t expect everyone to agree.

[panader0]

40. Well, the point of my OP was to find out why so many here don't like her.

If you say "Let's not and say we did" it's not telling me. What I think is weird is that
there seems to be so much push back against her. I think it's divisive to our party.

[BannonsLiver]

43. Some would say she's pretty divisive herself.

Maybe that’s deserved. Maybe it’s unfair. Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I’ll let other people decide for themselves. She has said and done things I applaud, and other things that I have disagreed with. That’s about all there is to it on my end. I do find hype tedious, though. That goes for football players, Elon Musk and politicians.

[panader0]

63. Thank you--best reply to my question so far.

[grantcart]

28. Snort

[Paladin]

41. Well said. (nt)

[Lunabell]

6. She is the progressive wing of the party.

An outsider to most in the Democratic party. She plays hardball and really fights for progressive ideas. She has a strong backbone and does not let republicans steal the oxygen out of the room.

And the progressive wing of the party is the future, y'all.

[Demsrule86]

15. I had no idea...list the bills she has passed. Wonderful...thanks in advance.

[Lunabell]

27. Some people actually work towards the advancement of ideals in increments

and push/pull the reluctant to the progressive side. She has already made impacts on the Democratic party just as Bernie did. The whole party platform is replete with the progressive agenda and we will keep pushing/pulling the Democratic party In that way. We are NOT republicans.

She's keeping it real with her working class roots. And that is what the Democratic party is all about.

You're welcome.

[George II]

146. "Working class roots"? Her father owned an architecture firm.

[Lunabell]

206. Some people spend more time bashing progressives,

than they do the GOP.

Also, my father had an investment firm. He is GOP, but I have worked since I was 15. I make an hourly wage as a nurse, a degree that I earned all on my own. I consider myself "working class". She was a bartender who worked her way through school. She is working class too.

[betsuni]

156. AOC doesn't approve of incrementalism, same as Bernie Sanders.

She often says so. This is a big part of what being a "progressive" is about:

"The only way we got out of the Great Depression is through a massive injection of public investment, and also a massive expansion in public ambition and the idea of what is possible in America. We're not gonna get out of this through incrementalism. We need moonshots."

Also, the party platform is not "replete with the progressive agenda." It is replete with the Democratic Party agenda, which is the progressive party.

[usajumpedtheshark]

203. Some historians say that we only got out of the Depression because of the massive spending caused

by WW II. I can't remember names right now but I can look them up if you want

[betsuni]

204. Well, that was AOC, not me.

I know history.

[usajumpedtheshark]

207. I apologize. It was not my intention to suggest that you did not.

[betsuni]

209. Oh, no problem.

I just don't want to be confused with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

[George II]

211. Some, but not all. Looking only at unemployment as a barometer, it was already way way down....

....prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor from a maximum of 25% in 1933 to between 5-10% in 1941.

There are other barometers, too, but unemployment is the most obvious.

It wasn't an overnight recovery, it took 6-7 years - incrementally, with an uptick in 1938/1939. But WWII, sad as it was, helped sustain the recovery.

[Dem4Life1102]

213. Interesting chart

Looks like the sharpest decline in unemployment began in 1940. That would be around the time that FDR began to gear up war industries to aid England.

[usajumpedtheshark]

251. Agreed. I meant "some" to be indicator of lack of agreement. Thanks!

[treestar]

175. Only the present matters

The present Congress is the only Congress that can pass bills.

And if the progressives are the future merely because mankind always progresses, then why do the progressives complain so much that they aren't getting what they want - why are they entitled to it now, instead of in the future when the progress will happen?

[malaise]

7. A Fabulous post

Rec
Go AOC!

[cwydro]

10. Wasn't it something like less than 20 % even voted in her district?

People tend to “overlook” that fact.

[JI7]

26. yes, and Biden got more votes in her distrct than her

She actually got a lower percentage this time compared to 2018. And I think it was becsuse of the defund the police stuff. But it's a heavily democratic district so outcome didn't change .

[cwydro]

73. Thanks. Wasn't sure of the numbers.

But I think it might be a slight exaggeration for the OP to claim she’s “much loved” based on a rather low turnout.

[questionseverything]

130. Listen to post 120

Her last race has highest turnout her district has ever had and it would be really unusual for the presidential race to get less votes than the cd race

[JI7]

161. It was the same voters with both elections on their ballots

[questionseverything]

178. Highest turnout in cd history

Yes it’s the same voters but too many people don’t understand the importance of the down ballot races

It would be unheard of for the presidential race to receive fewer votes than any other race

I get this is obvious and you are just looking for any “gotcha “

Have a great evening

[JI7]

183. No, there were some Democrats that got more votes than Biden

Those are the real impressive ones.

[questionseverything]

187. Name one

[JI7]

190. Elissa Slotkin

[questionseverything]

193. I didn't figure you to be anti pelosi

It is an odd circumstance tho

But it worked in a fairly red district

[JI7]

194. I'm very much for Pelosi which is why I'm glad for people like Slotkin

who help Democrats remain in the majority and allows Pelosi to be speaker.

[questionseverything]

195. Slotkin campaigned on not having pelosi for speaker

Explains why she would get more votes than Biden.....lotta pelosi hate in that district

[JI7]

196. Whatever she needs to do to win. Her keeping the seat Democratic helps Pelosi remain Speaker

I know some people don't actually care about results and would rather people like Mitch McConnell control things so they can take satisfaction in their (false and shitty) purity.

[questionseverything]

257. She voted against pelosi today

But du fixated on aoc not voting on time..... or some did

[JI7]

258. She comes from a conservative district unlike AOC

Any Democrat can win in the district AOC is in .

[questionseverything]

260. I just find it hypocritical

Ss

[JI7]

263. It's not hypocritical. Some people just understand politics

Pelosi can only be speaker if Democrats control the house and this means we have to win in districts she is not popular in .

[treestar]

176. and that she didn't have to run against a Republican

She's never beaten a Republican, yet she should be, according to some, Speaker of the House or President (when she's old enough).

[mtnsnake]

185. Why do you keep saying she never beat a Republican?

She just kicked a Republican's ass last month for god's sake.

[treestar]

235. She won the first election by winning the D primary

If a Republican ran last time, then they were easy to beat in that district.

At any rate, she has never won where serious Republicans opposition existed. I guess that is why she criticizes Democrats more than she criticizes Republicans.

[Dem4Life1102]

241. She does?

What measure are you using to determine that? I’ve not counted but based on her Twitter feed she criticizes republicans all the time, much more than democrats.

[treestar]

249. You could be right

I don't follow her on twitter - going by DU, which may well highlight here anti-Democrats remarks.

[Mariana]

191. Which clearly shows that her constituents weren't motivated to get rid of her. nt.

[Demsrule86]

13. This is a clickbait post and some who post in it will find trouble and not the good kind...

trashing.

[panader0]

16. "Let's talk about AOC" is clickbait on a discussion board?

[NurseJackie]

31. ...

[jalan48]

19. She ran against and defeated a long time Centrist. For some that was sacrilege. She was

supposed to wait her turn.

[panader0]

20. The 'center' has drifted to the right for quite a while.

[jalan48]

24. Absolutely, and encouraging Bush/Cheney Republicans to join our Party will push us even further to

the right. Some think this is a good idea because it will further marginalize the Progressives.

[WinstonSmith4740]

75. Yep, that started a while ago...

Really under Reagan, but Rahm Emmanuel didn't help. He did more to turn the Democrats into "Republican Lite" than anyone else. The "go along to get along" attitude doesn't work with modern day Rethugs. I forget which one it was, but a few years back, one of those bastards said that his idea of compromise "was Democrats doing what we tell them to do".

The young guns grew up listening to the bullshit coming out of Republican mouths, and have no fucks left to give. All gentility & compromise has gotten us was Trump. Republicans have been behaving like school yard bullies for too long because we've been passive for too long. So now they're plotting a coup because they didn't get their way, and whining about Democrats posting mean tweets, using profanity, and calling them names. Fuck everyone one of them. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them. It's the only thing that has ever worked.

So I hope AOC, Eric Swalwell, Beto, and the rest of our talented younger generation keeps on them. I hope they keep kicking ass, taking names, and making them look like the hypocritical idiots they are. I have total faith in Nancy Pelosi to get done what needs to get done. The bitch is fierce, and doesn't put up with bullshit. Chuck Schumer is dealing with that lying McConnell as best he can, but I'd like to see him pick up on some of Nancy's gutsiness.

“Never ever depend on governments or institutions to solve any major problems. All social change comes from the passion of individuals.” – Margaret Mead

[Mike 03]

22. We need to make room for AOC and others like her.

She is capable of doing that elusive, ephemeral thing Masha Gessen keeps saying Democrats need to do in order to ensure our own survival: speak to people in a new language of aspiration.

And I'm betting Ezra Klein would agree.

We need people to identify with our party the way Republicans identify with their "party" and the way blue collar and working people used to identify with the Democratic party. (i.e., if you were in a union, who else would you vote for?) It goes beyond policy, but it doesn't exclude policy.

[MrsCoffee]

23. Nice day for fishing.

[JI7]

29. She supports old men like Sanders send Ed Markey but thinks Pelosi needs to go

Even though Pelosi is left of Markey and has more accomplishments than Sanders.

So AOC isn't that progressive . At least in terms of actual progress.

[AmericanCanuck]

110. +1000

[Dem4Life1102]

33. Great post, however

She never said that Schumer and Pelosi need to go. That was media spin. When asked the question she said the party does need new leadership but that there is no one now ready to step up.

[NurseJackie]

47. Lulz!

[Vivienne235729]

147. Wait. What? If she says the party needs new leadership then OF COURSE she's talking about

Pelosi and Schumer. Who else could she be talking about?

[Dem4Life1102]

150. Tom Perez maybe

I don’t know because she never said anyone’s name. But she also said that there was no one ready to step up at the moment.

[Grey5]

34. I think She is Amazing...

Like a breath of fresh air.

[kentuck]

37. I think she is a future Leader of the Democratic Party...

But she cannot rush matters.

She must be patient and work to get the caucus behind her. She cannot be in too much of a hurry, in my opinion.

She is very intelligent and knowledgeable.

Her time will come.

She will not be denied.

[H2O Man]

39. Recommended.

I think it is because she dares to discuss the dynamics of class warfare.

I love AOC.

[Bettie]

42. That right there is a big part of it

and she doesn't back down. I love both of those things about her.

[burrowowl]

69. Me too!

[mountain grammy]

84. Agree!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

87. Yep. And that triggers Republicans and Reagan Democrats.

[uponit7771]

135. +1,

[mopinko]

44. sexism. pure and simple.

i have thought about this myself, and that is all i can come up w.

[mountain grammy]

86. I was about to say the same thing..

but wanted to be more diplomatic.. to hell with that. I agree with you.

[mopinko]

94. i keep trying to think of an equivalent male politician to compare to.

so far, nuthin.
ideas?

[mountain grammy]

102. Maybe Bernie?

maybe it's his Brooklyn accent that's irritating. Can't be the message, cause I've was raised on the message. Thought all Democrats were.

[mopinko]

113. nah.

gotta. be someone young.

[H2O Man]

125. H2O Man?

[mopinko]

129. like i said- young. gotta be young.

for the comparison. me, i like em all ages.

[George II]

218. How is it sexism?

[mopinko]

219. it just is.

and if that is invisible to you, well, i dont know what to tell you.

[George II]

232. I've seen similar comments said about men.

[mopinko]

234. whatevs.

not my job to open your eyes.

[George II]

45. Since you introduced voting numbers, Joe Crowley got a higher % of votes in the 2016 election and...

Joe Biden got a higher number and % of votes in the 2020 election.

[panader0]

51. That's great! Still 78% and 71% isn't too bad is it?

[Don1]

49. Great post

Yay AOC! She is honest, a fighter, and people shouldn't throw her under the bus.

Yay Democrats! Party of the working class.

[NurseJackie]

64. That's not happening. Nobody here is doing that.

and people shouldn't throw her under the bus.

That's not happening. Nobody here is doing that.

[Happy Hoosier]

52. Talented, young, charismatic, and pretty naieve.

If she learns how politics actually works, she will influential. If she decides that making noise is more important, she'll soon get frustrated and bail. We'll see. I see signs that she is learning, but the overconfidence of youth can be tough to overcome.

[mtnsnake]

165. I think that's a pretty fair analysis. nt

[Hortensis]

54. Since you ask, she supported subverting the 2016 primary from the majority,

and she's never said anything to suggest she deeply regrets it, has grown in commitment to democracy, and would never do it again, even if she thought it would work. She's 31 now and has had 2 years in national government; door's pretty much closed on the hope that she's just an exceedingly late developer.

That's #1, and more than enough in itself. Not even personal, just a basic, across-the-board disqualification. No more acceptable to me to benefit a candidate I support than one I don't.

But also more than enough all by themselves are are both that she doesn't seem to see or understand what I'm most proud of in my political being and that she constantly misrepresents and even lies about who I am and what I support. Would you respect her if you were me? (And aren't you?)

In any case, it all suggests to me that there's something basically wrong with her understanding and that she does not share my critical core democratic principles.

Sure there are things in her package, various statements and actions, that I have shared and respected, but to me her flaws far, far, FAR outweigh them. I'd enjoy having her as a neighbor, and really like her, but I absolutely cannot excuse what I see as enormous disqualifications for anyone who seeks power.

Oh, btw, she has no hard times in her background, solidly and then upper middle class from the time she was old enough to be aware that her clothes were as nice as her girlfriends'. Something easy you can check out.

[rgbecker]

116. Is this in code?

[demmiblue]

119. I often have that same question.

Maybe I'll have some salad with my dinner.

[Hortensis]

140. Let me clarify: In 2020 Trump/Repubs lied constantly that

Democrats were stealing the election, HAD stolen the election, then attempted to overset the electoral apparatus and popular vote to steal the election, and failed when democracy worked as it was supposed to.

In another election, another candidate, not a Republican, did effectively the same thing, including months of lying that Democrats were stealing elections in state after state, and similarly ended with failure to subvert the popular vote because the democratic process worked as it was supposed to.

Now, it may be that some approve these activities when it's their candidate and disapprove when it's someone else's.

To me, there is NO difference. Doesn't matter which party subversive candidates and their hopeful followers may be with, they're all on my shit list.

Hope that clarifies my meaning sufficiently.

[betsuni]

167. [phone]

[Codeine]

144. It seemed exceedingly clear to me.

No part of it was confusing in any way.

[MrsCoffee]

214. Not if you speak English.

[housecat]

55. She can handle a little criticism, and sometimes it's hilarious

[Hekate]

57. LOL. Are you bored today?

[tiredtoo]

59. My comments are my opinion here and may be risky.

But it appears to me the bulk of this group are what I call establishment Democrats. I have seen them at all levels of the party down to my local unit. Any suggestion of change seems to get them upset. My thoughts are we must change or we will end up with another trump like kook in control. Being 80 years old, I am not a young radical, but I do support ALL Democrats including AOC and Pelosi. I actually grew to like Pelosi even more as I watched her handle trump.
Well that's my opinion for what its worth.

[Fiendish Thingy]

61. AOC is the future of the party and the future of America, and nothing will stop her or her cohorts.

It may take 20 years, but the demographic shifts currently underway will make AOC a centrist eventually.

We are currently witnessing the death throes of straight white male dominance in governing the USA. They won’t go quietly, but go they will. The corporate powers will do their best to prop up this dying ruling class, but the birth rate for POC and the voting patterns of the majority of current 18-29 year olds will move the entire country leftward, despite fear mongering from those who will have centuries of power wrested from their grip.

Again, this won’t happen overnight, but it will happen...the fact that we are talking about 30 year old AOC and the Squad, and not 80 year old Bernie Sanders is proof of the future progressive wave that lies ahead.

[Magoo48]

90. Being a creature of deep left field, I want to see her remain as she is. I just ❤️ her style.

. My political stance filtered through my life’s experiences. At 72, I feel like I’m still pushing left. I could no more change my politics than my eye color. I’m pretty sure it’s much the same for everyone, mas o menos.

[NRaleighLiberal]

62. I am very pro AOC.

[Viz]

65. Count me in as big supporter of AOC

She is the new blood of the Democratic Party. I appreciate her intelligence, both mental
and emotional, her grasp of the issues we are facing and understanding of what good public policy
can contribute to the well being of our people and planet. She gets good messaging too.
Love her along with Elizabeth Warren and many of our Democratic leaders like Adam Schiff and
Sheldon Whitehouse too. They are truth tellers and so very in-tune.

[Roy Rolling]

66. Healthy Discussion

Bashing? No. Opposition at times? Yes.

The difference between Republicans and Democrats is the ability to have these discussions. It isn’t that Republicans refuse to debate amongst themselves, it’s that they are incapable of debating without destroying the other side. They cannot fight without resorting to murder. It’s winner take all, all or none, no compromise.

That is the biggest weakness there is. Republicans are too weak to have the very discussion we’re having here—thank the all-encompassing, personal or impersonal, theistic or atheistic supreme personality of the universe Democrats can.

As Will Rogers famously said, “I don’t belong to an organized political party, I’m a Democrat”.

[KG]

67. some seem to think she's the wrong kind of democrat, threat to the hegemony.

if only she would stay in her lane darn it.

[BainsBane]

70. I think some people have issues

Last edited Tue Dec 22, 2020, 05:11 PM - Edit history (1)

with what they see as her attacks on the Democratic party and its leadership. Some share those views about the party, others don't. But to pretend those disagreements are irrational is wrong. That isn't to say that some won't jump on her regardless, but there are also legitimate points of disagreement.

I myself appreciate much of what AOC does in congress in terms of questioning Republicans government officials. I do not, however, care for her use of Twitter. I'm not drawn to the firebrand type. In general, I prefer politicians who are workhorses over those who are show horses. I see the value in politics as about getting work done that benefits the citizenry, not spectacle.

I'm also troubled by the obsession with individual politicians, something we see across the political spectrum. AOC is only one among a handful who attract such a following. This is a function of the electorate's values. It points to a inegalitarian sentiment that, in my view, is inconsistent with leftist values. But that inegalitarianism and the proclamation of a few as superior to the majority seems to be at the core of those who most ardently claim to be on the left. A recent example is the comfort with which so many had in defending AOC's and the rest of the congress' receiving vaccines before front line health care workers and the elderly in long-term residential settings. The excuse was 1) their favorite politician deserved special treatment and 2) continuity of government, which makes no sense except for those in line for the presidency. What it shows is the determination to champion the interests of an elite few over the many--again, the polar opposite of leftist values of equality. It troubles me that so few object to such blatant privilege for the political elite (unless they are Republican, which points to a whole other set of issues). I see extreme reverence for the individual politician as a sign of creeping authoritarian values in America society, and that troubles me. It's been happening for at least a decade but is becoming more intense by the day. AOC is not to blame for that, though she is a recent beneficiary.

[questionseverything]

133. Listen to post 120 and her list of first term accomplishments

If you still say she is a show horse instead of a work horse then I would say you can’t recognize work

[BainsBane]

158. Can you tell me

which of the legislation she discusses became law? Any of it? I was under the impression that McConnell was committed to blocking any and everything Democrats wanted. So how did, in her words, "I passed, and "I repealed," legislation? I'm under the impression that she is talking about her vote for bills the Democratic House majority passed--you know, with a majority of the vote, as is required by law--but that haven't been acted on by the senate. Am I incorrect in that?

She also talks about legislation like the Green New Deal, which while admirable hasn't passed even in the House, and will be non-binding even if it does.

If you read my post, you would have seen that I said that I liked much of what she does in congress but was not a fan of her twitter habit. It is that which gets the most adulation on this site, far more than actions in congress.

[questionseverything]

177. I was responding to your show horse insult

If you think she’s not being truthful with her list that is up to you to research, not me

[BainsBane]

182. I think it's a stump speech

which I do not consider a source of information. It's her CASE for why she should be reelected. I don't believe her to be any more or less truthful than any other member of the Democratic caucus, though she does stand out in her eagerness to claim sole responsibility for acts that require the votes of a majority of the House. I can't recall other politicians saying "I' when talking about passing legislation, but I could be wrong about that. The pronoun is certainly inaccurate.

I suggest you look at Melman's post in which he links to a news spot on the tutoring program that AOC initiated in her district. That is far more compelling evidence than a stump speech.

I never said she didn't do any work. I said she falls into the category of a show horse rather than a work horse. Work horses keep their heads down. Show horses seek the limelight. Over a career, show horses tend to accomplish far less. Sites like this rank the effectiveness of lawmakers by the criteria shown--bills introduced, out of committee, laws passed, most missed votes, etc. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2019 People aren't posting about Eleanor Holmes Norton or Nita Lowey, but they rank highly under one or more of those criteria. This page filters for just freshman House members: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2019/house-freshmen

If AOC weren't a show horse, or a firebrand, people wouldn't be such hard core fans. It's precisely why you like her, not because she cast the same votes as most of the rest of the Democratic caucus.

As for research, I have no responsibility to do any. Being a fan of AOC or any other politician isn't a requirement for citizenship. And since I don't live in her district, I'm not in a position to decide whether I should vote for her. If you don't care enough to make an argument, that's on you.

[questionseverything]

188. You won't find me insulting any democratic pols

[BainsBane]

189. Nor did I

but you took exception to even a minor disagreement over her twitter habits. You seek to enforce reverence, which I am not in the habit of providing to politicians. I agree with some things they do and disagree with other things. That is entirely normal.

[George II]

71. People, and Democrats, look for accomplishments. That's all. You don't see similar comments about...

....fellow freshmen members of Congress, and since someone here claimed it's sexism, fellow WOMEN members of Congress:

Deb Haaland
Ayanna Pressley
Elaine Luria
Lucy McBath
Lauren Underwood
Jahana Hayes
Katie Porter
Elissa Slotkin
Sharice Davids

and many more.

Those and other just go to work in the morning and do their jobs. They're not in the headlines each and every day, and they have very few critical words for their Democratic leaders. There's a reason for that.

Look at Deb Haaland. Last week she received a multi-historic nomination for Biden's cabinet. She appeared with him on-stage, made a great acceptance speech, and then simply went back to work.

[melman]

76. "Ayanna Pressley"

Hey do you remember this infamous thread?

[George II]

98. Yes I do remember that 1-1/2 year old OP of mine. I see you're still poring over...

....my posting history from years ago, for whatever reason I just don't know but can imagine.

In that OP I listed several female Democratic freshmen members of Congress, nine to be exact, out of the dozens of new Democratic members of Congress.

So what's the point of this post, is there one? What does Ayanna Pressley have to do with that ancient OP?

By the way, I also remember this way at the bottom of the thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212281343#post238

melman (7,531 posts)

238. Never forget

I guess that was your signal that my post would be added to your long list of bookmarked, catalogued, and cross-referenced posts of mine for future use.

Finally, I remember this too! My response to your, might we say threatening and disturbing "never forget" post. I guess yours was a portent of what was to come.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212281343#post239

Star Member George II (59,007 posts)

239. This is alarming.

Things haven't changed.

[melman]

106. "What does Ayanna Pressley have to do with that ancient OP?"

The intent of that thread was to trash her along with the other members of the Squad.


As you know.

[George II]

115. And you know that how? I think it's insulting that you're reading something into this....

....that wasn't said.

So what makes you come to that conclusion?

My July 15, 2019 list of fresh(wo)men:

Jahana Hayes
Debbie Jessika Mucarsel-Powell
Lucy McBath
Lauren Underwood
Sharice Davids
Deb Haaland
Loretta Escobar
Sylvia Garcia
Xochitl Liana Torres Small

My December 22, 2020 list of fresh(wo)men:

Deb Haaland
Ayanna Pressley
Elaine Luria
Lucy McBath
Lauren Underwood
Jahana Hayes
Katie Porter
Elissa Slotkin
Sharice Davids

So, was it my intent to "trash" Ayanna Pressley, Elaine Luria, Katie Porter, and Elissa Slotkin in my old post, or is it my intent to "trash" Debbie Jessika Mucarsel-Powell, Loretta Escobar, and Xochitl Liana Torres Small in today's post? Since you're so clairvoyant about my intentions, which is it? Or both?

Is Ayanna Pressley now off your imaginary shit list of mine since I mentioned her today? And what about all those who weren't mentioned in either post - I must REALLY hate them, eh?

[mtnsnake]

164. +10,000

[sheshe2]

124. That is a year and a half old post.

Infamous? Why are you insulting a DUer by calling their year and a half old post infamous? As I reread the whole thing, I have to agree, it was and not in the way you mean.

Famous typically carries the meaning of “widely known,” and is often used in a positive manner; infamous, on the other hand, has a negative set of meanings, such as “having a reputation of the worst kind” or “causing or bringing infamy.”

Famous vs. Infamous | Merriam-Websterwww.merriam-webster.com › words-at-play › infamous-v...

This country is in a world of hurt and as Biden and Fauci said today we have not seen our darkest days, yet here you are dredging up old threads. *sigh*

[melman]

149. Yes. Infamous.

That is the ugliest thread in DU history.

[sheshe2]

152. I agreed it was the ugliest thread in DU history.

However I am not talking about the OP.

Keep dredging.

Merry Christmas.

[melman]

154. You know perfectly well the context, meaning and intent of that thread

And I am not going to participate in this game any further.


Done.

[sheshe2]

157. I really don't, but then I am unable to read minds.

Games? I just responded to your post.

I also wished you a Merry Christmas which you returned to me by saying "done". One of the worst years in our entire lives and you couldn't bring yourself to return a small greeting to me.

Nite.

[George II]

160. Again, and you know that how? Funny how the thread was ugly but got 239 responses, 85 recs....

....more than 15,000 views, and you felt the need to post 15 times in the thread.

You still haven't addressed how I "trashed" some people that I didn't mention but didn't "trash" the dozens other that I didn't mention. Nor have you explained how I "trashed" some in July 2019 but not others in December 2020, or how Ayanna Pressley was resurrected from the "trash" bin since I mentioned her in a similar manner today, now in what way that other 17+ month old thread.

Lots of assumptions, conclusions, and interpretations with nary an explanation of how you got there. But now it's a "game" to you and you're not "participating" any further?

I believe that explains a lot. Have a great evening, sir.

[MrsCoffee]

215. Don't go away mad....

[bucolic_frolic]

74. Intelligence includes an ability to temper tone-deafness

Mavericks offend people sometimes, but they don't have to do it all the time. One must learn to pick one's spots.

[SidDithers]

77. Didn't she just lose her Energy & Commerce committee assignment?...

Sid

[Celerity]

151. no, AOC was trying to get on it and lost to Rice (who ironically was one of the leading anti-Pelosi

for speaker members last go round, with AOC supporting Pelosi)

AOC was not on Energy & Commerce this past Congress.

https://energycommerce.house.gov/subcommittees/energy-and-commerce-116th-congress


Rice lost her bid for Judiciary in 2019 as payback for openly opposing Pelosi last time around.


Pelosi gets revenge against one of the Dem rebels

Rep. Kathleen Rice loses out on a Judiciary seat after opposing Pelosi’s return to the speakership.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/15/pelosi-rice-judiciary-committee-1102772

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi exacted revenge against one of her most outspoken detractors Tuesday night, blocking Rep. Kathleen Rice from landing a seat on the high-profile House Judiciary Committee.

Pelosi lobbied for other members to join the panel over Rice, leaving the third-term New York Democrat off a list of her preferred members for the committee during a tense closed-door meeting Tuesday night, according to sources. The effort came despite a full-court push from the New York delegation to secure a spot for Rice, a former prosecutor, on the panel that oversees everything from impeachment and guns to immigration.

The push by Pelosi was seen as payback by many in the room after Rice was one of the main megaphones behind a campaign to block the California Democrat from becoming speaker again. “She was boxed out and the result was cooked before we walked in the room,” said a source in the room who requested anonymity to speak candidly. “If you went by seniority then yes [she would have got the position]. But that’s not what happened. Scores being settled was first priority."

But the decision by Pelosi to block Rice from the committee and instead recommend several freshmen to fill open slots on the panel, sparked outcry from members of the New York delegation, who felt that Rice deserved the position as the more senior lawmaker.

snip

[Evolve Dammit]

78. I appreciate her voice and courage. This is not a time to just "go along to get along."

[NurseJackie]

217. Nobody is suggesting that it is.

This is not a time to just "go along to get along."

Nobody is suggesting that it is.

[Evolve Dammit]

230. plenty are wishing she would be quiet(er)

[greblach]

79. Consider me a member of the Squad

I don't agree with everything AOC says, but I can say that about everybody. I am so appreciative of her work. Her quick, perceptive questioning of Michael Cohen comes to mind...In a short period she has established herself as a force to be reckoned with and I so appreciate the work she is doing. The Repubs fear her. We need several more like her...

[Escurumbele]

80. I only disagree with this "even the Rs. They are essential workers after all."

Nope, "the R's" are not essential, as a matter of fact, I would be happy if they all disappeared, they do more damage than good.

[judesedit]

82. I think she's great. We need more like her. She tells it like it is.

Good on her. She's not in anyone's pocket.

[PatrickforO]

83. Excellent post. Agreed that AOC has some stuff to learn, but

so did Pelosi, Biden, Schumer and many others when they first started out. I look at my own career and at age 62, I know a lot about my field, and it is tempered with a bit of background and historical knowledge, as well as a wealth of knowlege about how things get done, and how to get people on board and keep them on board. Point is, I don't make half, or even a quarter, of the stupid mistakes I did in the 'way back when.'

AOC is just starting out. I'm inclined to cut her slack, even if I disagree with whatever controversial thing she has said.

My point is that she has a gift of speaking truth to power, and that quite often makes people uncomfortable.

My take on her is that she is part of the growing bench strength of this party.

Really interesting that Obama says we should give her a wider platform. Not surprising though.

And equally interesting that Steve Schmidt, of all people, has made overatures to her.

AOC is great. She'll grow to be a mighty and powerful voice for this party.

[Chakaconcarne]

85. No one on DU should be bashing her...period.

I don't care how anyone feels about her.

She serves/supports a constituent arm of the democratic party. She gives the party a broader voice...increases our voter umbrella.

It's completely unnecessary and counterproductive.

That is my opinion.

[Raven123]

89. I don't bash AOC daily, but I do have mixed feelings about her

Her intelligence, work ethic and commitment to progressive causes are clear. I think she is one of the most prepared members of Congressional Committees. Her time is never wasted and I always learn something from watching her. I agree she is a rising star.

However, i think campaigning in a progressive district is different than campaigning nationally and her presence on the presidential campaign trail may have been too much for some voters who might have considered voting Dem.

There is an art to SUCCESSFULLY advancing positions outside of one’s like-minded colleagues or constituents. AOC hasn’t mastered this.

Lastly, I don’t it’s always productive to share thoughts or opinions publicly on social media. I just don’t get the point.

[zentrum]

91. Yes the bashing

…of AOC has been a big turn-off to me.

She and the Squad are the future of the Democratic Party. And ironically closer to its older roots in FDR. Plus, the young get it about climate rot, medicare for all and systemic racism.

Also, I really trust her to stay true to her conscience, at the same level I trust Bernie and Warren.

It's been terrific to send all of them some money whenever I can.

[questionseverything]

242. I get upset by the aoc bashing sometimes too

I use ignore liberally

I added two more to that list after reading this thread 🧵

Assuming those haters are actually democrats, I am glad we vote together but I am happier pretending they don’t exist



That’s one thing about the net, this screen is to make me happy and what I let through is up to me

[zentrum]

243. Yes! You say it well.

I'm learning to do the same.

[Tommymac]

244. Agreed. The ignore feature is very useful.

I don't mind discussing policy differences, but when it comes to snide remarks about fellow Dems, left right or center I simply don't want to go there or waste my precious online time reading about it.

Plus I simply don't like some people, in real life and virtual; I ignored folks in '04 and I still ignore them in 2020. I'm sure a lot of folks ignore me too - and it's quite frankly all good. Makes both of our online experience's much more pleasant.

As far as AOC, I love her I love her I love her. Love her progressive stance on issues, love her take no shit attitude, and she really does know how to play politics despite what others claim about her youth and inexperience - she is a natural talent and a born leader.

Perhaps some of the feelings of ill will towards her that one sees occasionally are simply professional jealousy rearing it's head.

I see her going very very far in the future I will not be around to see.

Keep on Rockin' the Free World AOC!

[questionseverything]

248. Plus one

[FakeNoose]

95. I've never bashed AOC

... however I was annoyed that she and other young House members were vaccinated before the older and more susceptible members have been. It probably wasn't her choice when she was to be vaccinated.

I do agree with your other points. AOC is the future of our party, along with Pete Buttigieg and others. She's still young and she needs to learn ... tact towards elders, if nothing else.

I admire her spirit but she needs to learn how to rein it in once in awhile.

[seta1950]

99. That's true

I agree wholeheartedly, she irritates me sometimes but she’s young she will learn, she fight really hard for the people that is great in my book.

[AmericanCanuck]

103. Some people are liked because they make tweets liked by their followers

But, without legislative accomplishments and actual work that demonstrates someone has helped their constituents, all the tweeting is meaningless.

Show me the legislation. (copying from "show me the money" )

Senators and house members are judged on the legislation they introduce and get passed. The second metric is what have they done for their constituents. Those are the only two metrics.

[melman]

104. .

Link to tweet

[AmericanCanuck]

112. That's commendable. Good program.

[BainsBane]

163. that's great

and I had heard about that, but it's nice to see it in action. And thank you for linking to a news source rather than a stump speech.

[panader0]

105. It was mentioned above that she has had no bills passed.

Are there other freshman Reps that have? I must admit that I don't know.

[Dem4Life1102]

120. Ok

Link to tweet

[Alex4Martinez]

168. "These accomplishments are not mine; they are all of ours" Post 120, TYVM!

Nailed it.

Now as to the OP question, I cannot speak for those who bash AOC, I'll just say she is provocative, as progressives must be!

[Codeine]

107. Bashing? Even mild critiques get a hide now.

I just won’t talk about her anymore because too many folks are on hair trigger when her name is involved.

[AmericanCanuck]

108. +1000

[NurseJackie]

131. Whatever criticism that comes her way is fair and deserved...

Whatever criticism that comes her way is fair and deserved, from what I've seen and offered. But I also think that by their very nature, critical remarks naturally fall short of swooning praise that so many are accustomed to. As a result, and in comparison, her fans often perceive mild and ordinary criticism to be "bashing". But I think that fair-minded people understand that's simply not the case. It serves no good purpose for anyone to engage in a hyper-defensive position that ends up being completely unfair to those who have valid opinions that deserve to be expressed. I think that there can be very little doubt that eventually, when members are not allowed to scrutinize and/or criticize our elected representatives... and when Democratic critics are being silenced or bullied, then what that means is that certain politicians are effectively receiving special treatment (by popular demand.)

Look, all I'm saying is that Democrats should be able to speak honestly about all of our Democratic elected officials. You know... "holding their feet to the fire" and all that. --- That's fair, right? I think every reasonable minded adult can agree on that, right?

You are correct in your observations and I completely understand your diffidence in expressing perfectly reasonable critiques or pointing out other inconsistencies.

I'm reminded of a simple classroom science experiment from middle school where the student submerges both hands in a bucket of water. Left-hand bucket is filled with ice water and the right-hand bucket is filled with very hot tap water. After one minute, both hands are then submerged into a third bucket filled with room temperature water. As a result of being "acclimated" the the extreme conditions of very cold and very hot... each hand now perceives the room temperature water as being very hot and very cold... simultaneously! But how can that be? In reality, the bucket in the middle is only room temperature... neither hot nor cold... but the subject of the experiments perceives it as being two different temperatures at the same time.

[PTWB]

148. This is a forum to support Democrats.

[AmericanCanuck]

153. Yes .... and Democrats should support other Democrats instead of attacking them

However, some Democrats (like Justice Democrats for example) use twitter to attack Democratic leaders like Biden, Schumer and Pelosi.

Is that ok with you?

[PTWB]

170. This is a forum.

If a Democratic representative came to DU I would want them to respect our rules, just like I want the anti-AOC faction to respect our rules.

Is it too much to ask that if you don’t have something nice to say about AOC (or other Democratic public figures) you don’t say anything at all?

[AmericanCanuck]

256. There is no anti-AOC faction

There is a faction against grandstanding on twitter and especially tweets against Democrats.

I'd love to support any congressperson of any party that introduces a progressive legislation and gets it passed at least in one chamber of congress.

Tweets are cheap and easy. The hard part is getting legislation enacted.

[demmiblue]

114. A certain age/racial demographic seem to be the most put upon by her presence...

she's too "uppity."

I think she is a breath of fresh air, although I don't agree with everything she does. Perhaps I may change that opinion in the future; and perhaps I won't.

One thing I won't do is be a complete obsessive every time her name is mentioned.

[NurseJackie]

132. So now you're suggesting racism is at play? Seriously? "Uppity?" NOBODY SAYS THAT!! NOBODY!!

she's too "uppity."

So now you're suggesting racism is at play? Seriously? "Uppity?" NOBODY SAYS THAT!! NOBODY!!

Good lord! GMAFB That's just over the top!

[Codeine]

141. This is the kind of shit that renders all conversations

regarding this very junior elected official fundamentally impossible on DU. It would almost be amusing if it wasn’t so aggravating.

[AmericanCanuck]

155. Hear hear

[Iggo]

126. I like her!

[Vivienne235729]

136. I wish she would temper her anger and channel it better. I fully support her

But I think that she made a big mistake in deriding our senior leaders. It speaks to her inexperience and immaturity. I like her passion but that can be a fine line to manage. I hope she learns how to play on a team. Bc politics is not a solo sport. And if she can't learn to play on a team, she'll never be a successful politician. And that will be all on her.

[aidbo]

159. in regard to your final question:

It is jealousy and petty vindictiveness.


(IMO)

[mtnsnake]

162. Fantastic post. AOC could likely be the Speaker of the House sometime in the future, although

she probably needs a few more years of experience before that happens. She's a fighter, and that's what we need more of in our Party.

The question you posed at the end of your post is a very good one, relevant, and right on the money. Instead of getting bashed like she does, people should be welcoming her with open arms with the hopes that we can recruit a few more just like her. You are right about the bashing that takes place, but some of that probably has to do with her relationship with Bernie, another fighter who often goes way too underappreciated on this forum.

Anyway, I don't think everything AOC says and does shouldn't be without some criticism; she does seem to make a few untimely mistakes, but with someone like Nancy Pelosi to have as her mentor, I think AOC could be favorably compared as "a future Pelosi" in years to come. Like you said, she's very smart, and when it comes to toughness, she might be in the same category as Biden, Harris, Pelosi, Sanders, & Porter.

[BainsBane]

198. she keeps talking about leaving politics though

If that's true, she won't be around long enough to be speaker.

[mtnsnake]

224. It won't be the end of the world either way, whether she stays or leaves

but she is definitely having quite the effect on a lot of people while she's here, especially on the Republicans who seem to be scared shitless of her, judging by how much they hate her.

[betsuni]

202. No, the job has nothing to do with personal politics or "fighting."

AOC on Pelosi: "One thing that is notable about the speaker is that she does believe that the Democratic Party should be a progressive party. She is in the difficult position of having to juggle all these different wings within the party, but her personal politics are very progressive."

[MustLoveBeagles]

171. I like her overall

I think she's very bright and has a lot of potential. She gets a lot of critism here. Sometimes it's deserved, sometimes it's not.

[treestar]

172. She's never won an election against a Republican

She comes from a very blue district. She won by winning the Democratic primary in a very blue district. So how can she be the second coming of George Washington? Because she is young and beautiful? I think some people have a crush. She is just one representative of 435. Plus she seems not to be learning about how to gain position in the House. Just because she is young does not mean she represents the future - maybe the future of urban blue areas, but not the country.

She doesn't grate against me so much as the people who insist she deserves already, without having proven herself, to be Speaker of the House or even President! As if winning a seat in a blue district where she didn't even have to run against a Republican means she is a future President.

[BannonsLiver]

180. This is more or less how I feel

If you aren’t 100 percent all in on everything she does you’re a hater, or a centrist, or a “certain people” blah blah blah. It’s a borderline cult or personality and getting weirder and weirder.

The irony is it’s usually not her, like you said. It’s the supporters. I thought she did a nice job supporting Dems during the general election including Biden whom she probably doesn’t like much policy wise but the constant demands of fealty from her supporters here is pretty lame.

[mtnsnake]

181. Didn't she just beat Republican challenger John Cummings?

[BainsBane]

200. Have you ever lived in a blue city?

No Republican has a chance in hell of winning, ever. Republicans don't even bother running for mayor in Minneapolis anymore. The competition for house seats is in the primaries, not the general election. Ilhan Omar had a poor showing with 64.5% of the vote, when Biden got over 80%. Despite that, her election in November was never in doubt. ANY Democrat who wins a primary wins in a deep blue district. That's just the way it is.

[mtnsnake]

222. Are you suggesting that AOC deserves no credit for trouncing John Cummings?

The GOP sunk a lot of money into the Cummings campaign. Just because AOC lives in a blue city it doesn't necessarily mean she deserves less credit than someone winning in purple city. If it was a neck and neck race, then maybe, but it wasn't.

[BainsBane]

223. It means she doesn't have experience winning

in a competitive general election. It's no where near the same as winning in swing district. She beat the other Democrats in the primary, which I'm sure wasn't easy. Did she beat an incumbent for the nomination in her district?

[mtnsnake]

226. I understand what you're saying, but it's not her fault that she doesn't have

the experience of winning in a swing district because she doesn't live in one.

Your same reasoning can be said about ANY of our representatives who win in deep blue areas. It doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't win in a swing district.

[BainsBane]

227. They likely wouldn't win in a swing district

Different types of politicians win in swing districts. When I look at the districts in my state and the difference between my representative Ilhan Omar and the Democrats who have held seats in greater Minnesota, the difference is tremendous. The cultures of the areas are radically different.

[mtnsnake]

228. That could be the case

That's an excellent point you made about the differences in candidates as the relate to the differences in the cultures of their districts. Definitely food for thought.

[Dem4Life1102]

229. In 2018

She beat Joe Crowley who was the incumbent Representative of that district for 20 years. He was also the Chair of the Queens Democratic Party.

[BainsBane]

231. that's impressive

to be sure.

[mtnsnake]

233. If she wasn't on the map already, that victory helped to put her on it

It's hard to say who was more shocked about her win, AOC or Crowley.

[treestar]

237. Not much

No Republican would win there.

She was not primaried, and that was the only place she would really be in a contest.

[Dem4Life1102]

238. She was primaried this year

Congressional District 14 – Democratic Primary
Queens, Bronx

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (incumbent): 74.42%

Michelle Caruso-Cabrera: 18.12%

Badrun Khan: 4.98%

Samuel Sloan: 2.25%

With 449 of 449 election districts reporting.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won the Democratic primary in the 14th Congressional District, The Associated Press reported on June 24. It’s not surprising that Ocasio-Cortez drew a handful of Democratic primary challengers this year. As the biggest story to come out of 2018’s primaries after taking down former Rep. Joseph Crowley, Ocasio-Cortez was due for a challenge from a few competitors of her own. Even so, those challengers failed to amass the kind of support necessary to take down the popular – and well-funded – member of Congress. Michelle Caruso-Cabrera, the candidate who amassed the most votes after Ocasio-Cortez, ran to Ocasio-Cortez’s right, attacking her for being a “national celebrity” rather than a representative for the people of Queens and the Bronx.

https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/campaigns-elections/new-yorks-2020-congressional-primary-election-results.html

[treestar]

239. Ok, forgot that

Though it does not appear to have been a serious challenge.

[Dem4Life1102]

240. Guess that depends on your perspective

https://flushingpost.com/former-cnbc-anchor-michelle-caruso-cabrera-has-raised-1-million-to-challenge-aoc-for-ny-14-seat

[treestar]

236. Maybe but she won in 2018 by winning the D primary

In a district the Rs usually would not bother to contest. If they did this time, he was easy to beat.

[Celerity]

184. she has won two elections against Republicans

Also, being in deep Blue district or state, on its own, is not disqualifying of anything. Biden, Obama, the Kennedy family, Pelosi, etc. etc. for example.

[Autumn]

179. She is fierce. And she is a threat.

[rgbecker]

186. I would hope people would read up on the subject matter before talking.

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez|

[diva77]

192. +1000. Special interests pay people to troll internet sites so Im not surprised to see posts

that condemn elected officials who shun corporate money. And the trolls almost always make sure that they have the last word in threads that challenge them and frequently cross the line regarding cyberbullying.

[Celerity]

201. +1000

[Tommymac]

245. This is a fact. It takes time to learn to spot them.

Here or anywhere on the nets.

I use the ignore feature rather then waste my time and karma if they get too obnoxious -

otherwise I just break out the

[mtnsnake]

252. They are not that hard to spot

Years ago someone on a hockey board where I used to post said this about them:

They are the ones who will join a conversation to try and bait someone they don't like into a flame war by disagreeing with said target for the dumbest of reasons.
They will nitpick to death.
They will purposely "misread" what someone is saying for sake of getting their target to go on the defensive.

Supposedly the most tell tale sign is that they will often use emoticons similar to the laughing emoticon we have here and use them in great numbers.
Another tell tale sign is that they will often "tag team" which means the same group of people will often jump in to gang up on one person soon after the first one gets the ball rolling.

There might be a couple more that I don't remember. I can't say for sure if the same thing applies here as it did on that hockey board but it sure seemed to work over there.

[egduj]

197. I can't think of anything she said that I disagree with.

[denbot]

199. Dead on Pander0

Needed to be said.

[usajumpedtheshark]

205. I wish Senator Wellstone's life had not ended as quickly as it did. We have allowed the GOP to

define and demonize words like liberal and progressive. I shake my head as all the Republicans in my state rant about socialism and welfare while those of them who farm demand their checks from the government. The election is barely over and the infighting begins again, weakening our party from within.

I was a little surprised by this sentence in the original post, "She's very smart, and when she was a senior in high school she had an asteroid named after her
by the MIT Lincoln Laboratory." I am not saying she isn't smart but I don't understand how the second part of the sentence supports the first part.

[Tommymac]

246. Uusally if one discovers a celestial oject it gets names after them.

Don't know the details in this case, but that would be my assumption that she tracked and discovered it in High School.

[usajumpedtheshark]

250. You were close. According to an article in Business Insider, it was named after her

by the discoverers of the asteroid to honor her award of second place in Microbiology at the 2007 Intel Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF). ISEF is national science and engineering fair and participants are selected based on their performance at state-level fairs.
Over 4,000 middle and high school students have been similarly honored.

[link:https://www.businessinsider.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-asteroid-2018-6?op=1|]

My eldest son was twice selected to participate in ISEF and found it a very rewarding (and humbling) experience. He did not place high enough to have an asteroid named after him.

[Lunabell]

208. Seems to me that too many here are spending time

bashing AOC and progressives more than they do republicans. Smh

[betsuni]

210. Seems to me too many have been spending time bashing Democrats

more than they do Republicans.

[mtnsnake]

220. Seems to me you hit the nail on the head

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

212. AOC is like the kindly grandchild who buys stuff from Amazon

for her octogenarian grandparents, because they could never figure out how to use a computer.

[Hortensis]

221. And...you're a confused but grateful octogenarian in your scenario?

My octogenarian husband used to install computer systems at JPL and military installations, so he's the one who fixes computer glitches for his friends whose experience is in other lines of work.

Some of them are fortunate to have savvy grandchildren nearby, even if they are too busy working to come by when needed, but it goes both ways. They typically have knowledge and experience, both intellectual and in practical skills, that younger generations haven't acquired. And that fond contempt definitely goes both ways.

The admiration of Ocasio's wisdom always reminds of the old truism, that young people excited over some new-to-them idea so often assume they're the first generation to know it. But they virtually never are, Roisin. Thinking wasn't invented 10 years ago.

[coolhandlulu]

216. I don't bash her publicly

I like the cut of her jib. I love young folks and their energy. I’m an old 50 year old woman. My problem with her is that she is disrespectful to her elders who have earned their place through hard work and dedication. She needs to sit down and be humble.

[Tommymac]

247. 'Disrespectful of elders' has been used in the past to hide a lot of nastiness.

Not saying you do this, but it is one of those phrases that is condescending and disrespectful in itself.

I am over 60 and my god do I know a helluva lot of people in their 20's who fucking kick ass professionally. And I know a lot of folks my age who have become incompetent because they have rested on their laurels and don't want to make room for new ideas.

Besides, this new generation takes no prisoners - you can feel it in their music, their language, their acceptance of diverse sexual behaviors, their acceptance of gender mixology, their rejection of racism, and the normalization of George Carlins's 'words you can't say on TV' - well now you can say them to your fucking boss.

AOC is one helluva nasty woman and I mean that as high praise. She totally rocks and I know she is serving We The People and Our Constitution very very well. We need 100's more like her in Congress.

Just sayin.

[Celerity]

261. [phone]

[ansible]

262. The "elders" in charge today have fucked us over and led to the current ruin of our country today

So yeah...no.