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Wed Dec 23, 2020, 06:54 PM

I have a serious question.

I don't want to be impugned for my question or ignorance. I don't think anger is appropriate, but I don't mind frank opinions.

First part: When someone has one parent who is Black, and one parent of another race, why are they Black? We had Obama, who was Black, the first Black President, but he was actually half White. Now, we have Kamala, who is half Black, and half Asian, yet she is the first Black female VP. I don't know what box they would have checked, but if they checked "Other," would they have been wrong?

Second part: I have a picture of ancient relatives. I inherited this picture. It is a portrait of a family. A man, wife, and two children. On the back of the picture are their names, and all with the same last name. The wife is clearly black.

Now, I don't think it's a case of wishful thinking, like you'd look at someone brown and say, "That person is Black." This woman appears to be black.

There is no mention of her in family lore. I thought for awhile that maybe back then, somehow, slave owners included nannies in pictures; but the back of the picture has them with the same name. I know that back then some slaves ended up with the owner's name. But, this doesn't seem like that situation. She is sitting next to him on equal footing with the children arrayed behind them. I can't tell a thing from the children, but that doesn't mean a thing.

The next part is, if she was Black and he was White, would he have married her? Back then, things were different, and could that have been done even?

My mama raised me to be nonprejudiced; she came from the South and worked it out that she would NOT teach her child to think or feel that way. It is remarkable that she did that, but she told me herself that was what she wanted. And, she was right.

But, I am curious about this picture. You know, if you have one drop of Jewish blood, you are Jewish. Something like that. Do Black people feel the same? Cause, I gotta tell ya, I am lily white, as all my family was. We have Native American blood from my father's side, but we are not NA--not enough to move into a casino, ya know...

In some quarters, it is a sin to be White. I will not apologize for being White. I believe in inclusion and family togetherness, no matter who you are. People are people. I just want to understand about my personal ancestors.

I sort of don't want my DNA on the registry, but I'm tempted. Anybody have any ideas on these things? Any comment will be welcome. But please don't yell at me.

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have a serious question. (Original post)
EndlessWire Dec 2020 OP
boston bean Dec 2020 #1
Hoyt Dec 2020 #6
sop Dec 2020 #2
Boxerfan Dec 2020 #3
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #12
Tree-Hugger Dec 2020 #28
Croney Dec 2020 #4
Bucky Dec 2020 #8
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #13
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #14
Mister Ed Dec 2020 #5
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #19
safeinOhio Dec 2020 #7
Bucky Dec 2020 #10
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #18
Tree-Hugger Dec 2020 #9
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #16
Ms. Toad Dec 2020 #11
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #17
PJMcK Dec 2020 #15
tblue37 Dec 2020 #22
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #26
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #23
Bayard Dec 2020 #20
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #24
marie999 Dec 2020 #21
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #25
marie999 Dec 2020 #27
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #29
Croney Dec 2020 #30
surrealAmerican Dec 2020 #31
EndlessWire Dec 2020 #32

Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 06:55 PM

1. Serious answer.

Because of the color of their skin.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:13 PM

6. It really is that simple. If Harris or Obama had tried to drink from the White Only

 

water fountains near where I lived in the 50s and even 60s, they would have upset the rubes.

That’s the heritage (of hate) confederate flags symbolize.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:06 PM

3. The 1% thing applies to all races I assume

Since that was the applied reality for people of color in America. Others can explain the history behind it but it was certainly applied to African Americans.


I do take offense with this statement-it is not true or reality. Sounds like a grasp for privilege.

"In some quarters, it is a sin to be White. I will not apologize for being White. I believe in inclusion and family togetherness, no matter who you are. People are people. I just want to understand about my personal ancestors."


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Response to Boxerfan (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:37 PM

12. We can discuss it.

I don't see how you think it is a grasp for White privilege. I'm a person, too. And, I have been excluded from Black groups because my skin is white. I have experienced reverse racism in day to day working, not just in competition or something like that.

Having said that, I have also experienced friendship where my skin color didn't matter. So, I don't think stating that in some quarters Whites are disliked is a grasp for White power, nor is it a false fact. I personally have been ridiculed for wanting to be part of a working group of people, and my desire had nothing to do with wanting to be Black. It had to do with being an outsider.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:32 PM

28. "Reverse Racism"

Reverse racism is not a thing. Racism is a system of oppression. The word you are looking for is "prejudiced." Not "Reverse racism."

Here is an explanation:

[link:https://medium.com/equality-includes-you/why-reverse-racism-is-a-myth-c2374b8837af|]

Another good one:

[link:http://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism|


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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:08 PM

4. "In some quarters, it is a sin to be White."

I'm not understanding this statement.

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Response to Croney (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:21 PM

8. Yeah, that's just silly

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Response to Croney (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:39 PM

13. See above. n/t

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Response to Croney (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:40 PM

14. Some Blacks hate Whites. n/t

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:10 PM

5. My own standard (and I respectfully ask AA DUers to educate me if I'm wrong):

If you are Black enough to have been refused service at a lunch counter in Alabama in 1950, then you are Black.

If you are Black enough to have been enslaved if you had lived in in 1850, then you are Black.

If you are Black enough to have ever suffered the slings and arrows of racism at any time in your life, then you are Black.

I'm certain that President Obama and Vice-President Elect Harris meet that standard.

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Response to Mister Ed (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:08 PM

19. But, this is not complete enough.

There are light skinned Blacks who can pass for White, yet they are still Black. So, you are saying that a person like myself, who probably has at least one Black ancestor, but is severely pale, is not Black?

I'm happy being me. I don't know how Black your skin has to be, however. This is a judgment that is beyond my ability to experience.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:14 PM

7. The Concept of "Race" Is a Lie Even the Ancient Greeks knew it

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-concept-of-race-is-a-lie/

“The science of genetics demonstrates that humans cannot be divided into biologically distinct subcategories”; and it “challenges the traditional concept of different races of humans as biologically separate and distinct. This is validated by many decades of research.” In other words, “race itself is a social construct,” with no biological basis.

In 2014, more than 130 leading population geneticists condemned the idea that genetic differences account for the economic, political, social and behavioral diversity around the world. In fact, said a 2018 article in Scientific American, there is a “broad scientific consensus that when it comes to genes there is just as much diversity within racial and ethnic groups as there is across them.” And the Human Genome Project has confirmed that the genomes found around the globe are 99.9 percent identical in every person. Hence, the very idea of different “races” is nonsense.

A second problem, as cognitive scientist George Lakoff has shown, is that simply using the word “race,” even when criticizing racism, actually reinforces the false belief that human beings belong to fundamentally different groups. That’s because the more a word is used, the more that certain brain circuits are activated and the stronger that metaphor

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:24 PM

10. I remember once in the '08 election someone asked Obama if he was black enough

It was done in a roundabout, non-rude or -confrontive way. His response was I still in trouble hailing a cab.

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:01 PM

18. He is such a clever man. n/t

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:22 PM

9. "I will not apologize for being white."

That's a battle cry of white supremacists. I'm not sure why you felt the need to include that.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:55 PM

16. Well, it's interesting that so many

people are upset by it. The fact is, in my past I have been excluded for being White. This is absolutely true. But, I am defiant in my old age. I don't want anyone to think that I am something I am not. I am ME. And, I'm White, and no, I don't think I am better than you. but I am not going to tell you I am anything other than White. Unless my ancestor changes anything!

You see how hard everything is? "Well, what color are you?" "I'm White." "Oh, a Supremacist." Well, NO...

And, I included it because my question is about race, and how my ancestor fits in there. It's the premise of the question, and I am sensitive to it. DU is rather touchy, and I didn't want anything to be a surprise.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:31 PM

11. As for being Native American - it really depends on the nation.

Some work purely on tracing your lineage to a registered member. Others work on a percentage.

My sister's nation works on tracing her lineage to a registered member - no matter how distant. (She and her ~12 siblings were abandoned by their mother when she was 2 and my brother was 4). Unfortunately, although we know her birth mother - she is pissed at my sister and refuses to sign the paperwork for my sister to become a registered member. (Once she dies, she can establish her right to register by other means.)

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:56 PM

17. Interesting. n/t

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 07:45 PM

15. I yearn for the day when we're all brown

Life could be much easier.

Of course, humans being what we are, we'll probably find a new way to discriminate.

Sigh.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:19 PM

22. We'll all be a nice golden shade, but then everyone will face questions like, "How long have you

been golden? Were your grandparents golden? How far back does your golden ancestry go?"

And even, "Are you culturally golden?"

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:26 PM

26. "But, thank G-d you're not Orange!" n/t

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:19 PM

23. Yeah

and I wanted to know about the race thing, and I'll bet it doesn't matter how I asked it. Now, everyone thinks I'm a White Supremacist.

I probably won't ask a question about being gay. The board would probably break.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:10 PM

20. I'd like to do the genetic testing too,

But I don't want it floating around out there.

My great uncle did a family history book many years ago. It showed our original ancestors were from Ireland and Scotland. A lot of us have blonde hair and green eyes. The line is all lily-white in South Carolina. I did note that there was a small one-line entry about one of the women living in sin with two black men in the 1800's. Horrors!

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Response to Bayard (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:21 PM

24. TWO?? LOL n/t

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:18 PM

21. My history in this country is 7/8 White North Carolina from England

and 1/8 Black slave North Carolina from Ghana. There's a word for that.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:23 PM

25. Octoroon? n/t

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:26 PM

27. Yup, that's it. And you were considered Black.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 08:40 PM

29. I saw that on the link

shared above. One eighth or under. So, technically, I could be an Octoroon?

Interesting...

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 09:03 PM

30. I dunno. There's a word for some of us on this thread, how do you spell it?

Wipepo? I forget. It's been a while since it was a thing.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 09:19 PM

31. By the way, you are mistaken about the "Jewish blood" thing.

According to Jewish law, you're Jewish if your mother is Jewish.
If your father is Jewish, but not your mother, you're not Jewish. If your maternal grandmother wasn't Jewish, but all your other grandparents were, you're not Jewish.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 23, 2020, 11:39 PM

32. Well, I knew it was something. n/t

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