Are we done bedwetting???

[msanthrope]

Have we realized why President Obama was really, really smart, when faced with Mitt's debate strategy?

How when faced with the lies and deceit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251120949


How when faced with deliberate provocation:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021464287

How when faced with with Robme Wanting a Platform for Zingers/47% apology:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021475018


President Obama did his best not to engage a bully? He didn't explain, defend, or otherwise let this asshole deliver his zingers, his apology, his schtick. He acted like a President.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1469106

Because he knew this was coming:

Upcoming Jobs Numbers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021475945


Are we done bedwetting???? Because if Big Bird can get it together:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021475202

So can we all. It's a long five weeks. Gird your loins. Find out how you can help get the vote out on Election Day, and then do it.

Yes, We Can. And We Will. Again.

[gkhouston]

1. Meh. It's DU. The group hysteria thing always makes me think of the original Star Trek

series, where people on the bridge would collectively lurch left and lurch right during red alerts.

As long as Romney's wearing the red shirt at the end of the day, it's all good.

[msanthrope]

3. Oh--the crapping oneself was completely expected. It's just that they've had 24 hours, and I'm

tired of the bullshit.

Change the sheets and remember we have 5 weeks ahead.

[randome]

4. Ha! Good one!

Set phasers to 'Romney'!

[msanthrope]

9. A classic for you....

http://www.hulu.com/#!watch/19313

[randome]

34. It will have to wait until after work. But thanks.

[Raster]

50. Red shirt as in first one killed on the hostile, alien planet?

AGENT MIKE: Just asking a question and making an observation. We are in no way suggesting or threatening harm to Mr. Robme. We're not like that other batshit-crazy political site.

[gkhouston]

107. Red shirt as clueless noob who's gone by the second commercial break.

Yes, that usually means death-by-alien, but I'd be good with became-infatuated-with-best-friend-of-the-alien-girl-of-the-week-and-jumped-ship.

[Raster]

108. Either scenario works for me. Red shirt it is!

[Godless in Seattle]

123. Oh yeah!

"

[RBInMaine]

124. Obama DID go too easy on him and needed to be more energetic, but this was NOT a major game change.

[porphyrian]

2. . n/t

[MineralMan]

5. Anything that smells like bad news spreads through

DU like a fart in church. Good news, not so much. We're a site full of news watchers and followers, so daily stuff gets a lot of attention. We also listen to pundits a lot, so whatever they say gets lots of attention. Sometimes, DU looks like a panic attack when there's news that we don't like.

Then, the next day, it all settles down and waits for the next silent fart. We begin again at that point.

[tallahasseedem]

45. LOL!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

49. LOL! Nice analogy.

It's like, OMG, who farted?! We're all gonna die!

When that sort of political indigestion and flatulence occurs I tend to drift away from DU for a bit until the fart dissipates rather than stick around, just inhaling the vapors and complaining. The purely anthropological and sociological aspects of internet-based mass hysteria are interesting, up to a point, and also pretty predictable.

So I guess DU has now had its necessary dose of Beano and we can breathe again for awhile.

[CTyankee]

87. LOL. So true. My husband says that when I watch Morning Joe and then go on DU

I am pissed off for the rest of the day!

Don't get me wrong. I'd be unhappy without my DU. I just think that liberals tend to be Chronically Morally Outraged...

[MineralMan]

89. It's a phenomenon.

I'm not sure why so many are so pessimistic, but there it is.

[CTyankee]

90. We are idealists and therefore, never satisfied with the way things are.

It's a good thing in one sense and it's a bad thing in another...

[MineralMan]

96. I think there are many kinds of idealists.

I'm an idealist, but always recognize that ideals are rarely realized. We get shadows on the back of the cave, but the ideal can't be seen clearly.

Then there are idealists who can't be satisfied by anything less than the perfected ideal. They are doomed to disappointment, since each has a different ideal in mind.

For me, ideals are targets, and targets only. We keep aiming for them, but we have inaccurate tools that miss most of the time. All we can do is keep trying.

[99Forever]

6. Are we done ..

... making personal insults about our fellow party members for expressing their valid concerns?

I fucking doubt it.

[DonViejo]

29. Preach it!

[Glitterati]

131. Never

What better why to split up the party?

It's the ground game on DU - beat up on your fellow DEMs while doing NOTHING to get your candidates elected.

If you're living on DU, you ain't out there getting the job done.

[msanthrope]

133. I bet if you took a survey on DU about who exactly is working the Obama campaign, and who is not,

it would be rather interesting.

I'll be watching the Biden/Ryan debate with my fellow Obama campaign workers. And on election day, I'll be a legal observer, again, for my President.

You?

[Glitterati]

134. Working on 7 adult republicans next door

Keeping their power on, encouraging them to get their home out of foreclosure and explaining why Obama is a far better choice than Romney.

I don't think I can handle any more than 7 at a time.

As for the Biden debate, I don't think I'm watching anymore debates. While I expect Joe to wipe the floor with Ryan, I just can't take the demoralizing if it doesn't happen.

on edit:
But, the truth is, shitting all over your compatriots like this isn't helping.

[msanthrope]

135. Volunteer at your local campaign and get Democrats to the polls on election day....

it might be more rewarding!

[Glitterati]

136. Well, I would, except.....

there isn't one. My county votes 90% republican (if you can believe the voting machines) and we don't even HAVE a DEM party here.

[randome]

7. I don't think it was 'strategy' to appear disorganized simply because good news was on the horizon.

But you're right, it's time to stop crying and march on!

[msanthrope]

12. No--I think the plan to not give a platform to the 47 apology

was thought out before hand. The non-Angry Black Man is an automatic.

But I think the disengagement was a reaction to Romney's Gish Gallop routine.

[randome]

18. I'll buy the '47%' omission.

Not convinced that everything else was part of some hidden strategy, though. But, hell, if it was me on stage there, I don't know if I'd have done better, either!

[msanthrope]

21. No--let me clarify....I think avoiding provocation of ABM is automatic and well-rehearsed.

I think responding to the Gish Gallop routine was on the fly.

I do think the President was prepared to debate. He was not prepared to debate THAT.

If I could fault the President, it would be that he expected that Romney would have the integrity to show up and debate the positions he's held for the past 18 months. He underestimated just how much of a piece of shit Romney really is.

[speedoo]

32. "He underestimated just how much of a piece of shit Romney really is."

I agree and that was the only error. For the hand-wringers, that error was unforgivable, but it turns out that Obama's decision, apparantly on the fly, to limit his response, was right because we are now seeing a ton of "Romney lies" reaction.

So, bottom line, Obama did pretty well given what he was confronted with. The hand-wringers, as usual, were wrong.

[OriginalGeek]

33. The funniest part is when Rmoney couldn't get any 47% talk into the debate

he dutifully went over to Fox and had them ask about what he would have said.


AND he said he would have said he was wrong. lol! I've seen less flipping at Cirque Dy Soleil.


(((("Psssst - hey rich guys - the moochers are tryna take your stash!&quot )))

"Ohhhhh, hey there li'l 47%ers - I was just bullllllllllshittin'...y'all cool...."

((((Pssst, hey rich guys - no they aren't...&quot )))

[LynneSin]

8. I knew without a shadow of a doubt there was method to what we thought was madness

Well played Obama!

[tallahasseedem]

47. This thought is what got...

me through the restless night and morning after the debate!

[jsmirman]

10. I'm still displeased, and donors large and small are, too

as are voiunteers.

The Obama campaign has admitted their candidate's ineffectiveness, because the most effective follow up to the debate is, "yeah, our man really should have done better, considering what a serial prevaricator he was facing and the fact that his opponent contradicted himself nearly every time he opened his mouth."

That establishes credibility by being willing to acknowledge the reality of Obama's weirdly flaccid performance, hammers the reality that Romney is a liar, establishes the lack of credibility of any of Romney's "positions," and sets us up to move on.

Pleased with the debate? Very much no. I don't care what the incumbent scorecard has been in past debates. In that debate the opportunities cried out to be seized and so many of us would have been ready with withering, above-board counterattacks.

But it's OVER. Yes, I'm fully ready to move on. The goals are still the goals. The president has gotten the picture from people he has to listen to - big donors who told him his performance was shit. So now we all move on. Nothing wrong with doing so by acknowledging reality.

But yes, it's time for all of us to fight that lying sack of shit that is Romney harder than ever.

[msanthrope]

14. Oh--not pleased. But politics is a shit sandwich. Sometimes, you take a big bite. Something for

you though-- a new meme.....

Romney had such disrespect for the President and the Presidency that he refused to debate in good faith. He refused to show respect for us, the American people.

That same 47 percent he is apologizing to??? He didn't respect us enough to give us a real debate on issues.

[jsmirman]

27. I think the thing to hammer is that there's no reality there

With clear as day proof that the man stands for nothing, why should anyone believe his plans extend any further than tax cuts for the rich and murdering regulation and Big Bird?

Everyone knows he has no respect for anyone. I'd go more with the image of a sneering plutocrat who plays pretend on the topic of taxes and jobs, all the while continuing to promote tax cuts for the rich on his site, not paying taxes on his own, and reaping the benefits of tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.

His money is offshore and so are the American jobs he sent packing.

[MineralMan]

16. Yah, that's why there were only 30,000 who showed

up in Madison yesterday to cheer the President. Everyone is pissed at Obama, for sure.

[jsmirman]

19. I think it's notable that the campaign has acknowledged reality

[MineralMan]

20. The reality is that the result will be a net no change.

This morning, there is different news. Tomorrow, there will be more different news. The debate isn't the only news.

Personally, I thought the President did just fine in backing off and letting Willard rant on.

[nxylas]

74. A healthy attitude

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again. The "11-dimensional chess" bullshit, pretending that the President's poor performance was part of some fiendish plan, probably does more harm than good, as it just makes us look like sore losers. Whatever happened to taking defeat on the chin, like an adult?

[jsmirman]

80. Agreed - and there's credibility won by proving one can process reality

I'm fairly well to the left, and I tend to tune out people of my own persuasion when they're clearly talking bullshit, lol.

[shireen]

77. +1

Most people watching the debate are not as sophisticated as the DU crowd. They may not be familiar with the issue details so they may have believed the numbers thrown out by Romney -- after all, he is running for the highest office in the land and they are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

The first debate is critical, and Pres. Obama, a smart thoughtful man, could have handled it better. But he didn't fail, and generally gave a good impression depite Romney's distracting performance.

But as you wisely point out, it's over and we have to move on. I'm sure the president now knows what he's dealing with, and will be able to handle Romney more effectively for the next two debates.

[jsmirman]

78. Yep, we don't lose anything by being honest about the past

and what happened in the past is that Mitt lied his rear end off and temporarily got away with it.

Okay.

Plenty to work with from there. Doesn't change the past, but we can change the future.

[LiberalAndProud]

122. Obama wasn't quick on his feet.

Romney caught him off guard. Still, I believe Obama's instinct to play defense was the right one. We have had smatterings of discussions here about gender perception. What I saw was Obama checking his temper in the face of provocation. A couple of times he breathed deep and gathered himself, but he did not explode in anger. He looked tired and care worn and that reminded me that he has other things on his mind beyond landing a zinger or two for political theater. Mitt's lies pissed me off, and I was terribly annoyed when they said, "We mostly agree." My blood pressure sky rocketed every time. Still and all, the words that some DUers would put in Obama's mouth don't strike me well when I imagine President Obama speaking them. Perhaps they would have been momentarily gratifying, but ultimately not as effective as the message discipline that Obama exercised.

Do I think it was planned? Beyond the resolve not to pound the 47% angle, no, I don't. As I said, I think Obama acted from instinct. Watching the drama play out over the ensuing hours helps me to trust his instincts.

[Blue Idaho]

11. Welcome to Chicken Little Underground.

Can we get back to re-electing a Democratic President now?

[Sugarcoated]

65. Hahaha, LOL

Good one

[KharmaTrain]

13. The debate is now soooooooooooo Wednesday.....

...we now how job numbers to play with and surely some other poll or document dump will come our way later today or over the weekend.

It's the sturn and drang that makes DU the fun place it is...especially during election time.

[obamanut2012]

15. Exactly, and the new jobs report has him majorly trenidng up

On Intrade!

[msanthrope]

17. And Romney's apologizing, and BigBird isn't going away. nt

[obamanut2012]

35. The Big Bird thing has shown surprising staying power to me

Social Media is a real force in news and politics now, and twitter is all a... err.... flutter with Big Bird hash tags and parody accounts. Things like this help keep Romney's snarkiness and meanness alive and relevant. Anyone over a certain age watched "Sesame Street," or had kids that did/do.

[MineralMan]

22. The news cycle moves on...

And so it goes. Next week the debate will be forgotten and something else will take its place.

[msanthrope]

25. Biden/Ryan. We should pass out Depends. nt

[MineralMan]

30. Maybe some folks should just watch it in the bathroom.

Save steps.

Really, though, the VP debate is likely to be full of fire and brimstone, and should be entertaining. Completely irrelevant to the outcome of the election, but entertaining.

Loose the Biden of war on the Ryan of defeat!

You know where I'll be during the debate.

[msanthrope]

39. Turn the TV up loud, wrap the laptop in plastic and bring it in....it could work.

When my husband designed his man-cave it did not escape my notice that he positioned the TV in a manner that allowed a viewer to watch unobstructed from the adjoining bathroom when the door was open.

So I had a lock put on the man-cave door. And he thanked me for my foresight.

[Jennicut]

79. This debate will be FAR more entertaining then any of the Presidential debates.

Because if there were two more different personalities then Ryan and Biden I couldn't find them.

[obamanut2012]

36. I am so excited for that one!

Biden is also exciting to watch -- you never know what he will say. He is, however, a smart guy.

[msanthrope]

40. I can't wait, either. I love Joe Biden. nt

[obamanut2012]

42. He seriously cracks me up

I also think he's a really nice guy, and a smart one.

[msanthrope]

46. I've nearly forgiven him for Clarence Thomas. nt

[obamanut2012]

53. +1

[porphyrian]

23. Hang on...now we are. n/t

[randome]

52. Not everything is to be taken LITERALLY on DU!

[porphyrian]

70. ...oh... n/t

[msanthrope]

71. Brought to you by....

[porphyrian]

73. Ha!

[porphyrian]

99. Ha, Ruprecht! n/t

[Kennah]

118. Get the genital cuff

[msanthrope]

130. No sex threads!!

[Kennah]

144. Was that no sex-threads, or no-sex threads?

[Bluenorthwest]

24. As I have said all along, Mitt looked ultra terrible, sounded worse...

. I think the President and his people could have made somewhat better choices about how to deal with an unrelenting liar telling unrelenting lies, but I also don't think it matters in the long run. Mitt lost the night. Also, Obama did not win the night. But Mitt lost. No doubt about it. And that's what matters.
And what's that lyric from Dreamgirls? 'A second rate diva who can't sustain'. That's what's next. Mitt blew out his range the first night. Also, I think of that Bugs and Daffy cartoon where they are topping each other in a Vaudeville show down, the acts get crazier and crazier until Daffy sets himself on fire and his soul leaves his body saying 'it's a great act, but you can only do it once'.

[obamanut2012]

26. Obama also gave up ZERO sound bites at the debate

That, in and of itself, is also something to remember. No ammo for the GOP. They have nothing, as their 2007 Rev. Wright video shows.

[H2O Man]

28. Recommended.

Fight the "Good Fight."

[gateley]

31. I am. I'm still not happy with how it went and the following uproar, but I've calmed

down and feel confident again. So no more bed wedding for me!

[Fumesucker]

37. I'm with the OP, it's obvious that Obama deliberately didn't engage Romney.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1472198

[msanthrope]

41. "certain status solely and exclusively on the basis of his identity" sez WinstonChurchill.

I'm gonna go eat some pizza and laugh over your unintended funny!!!!

[H2O Man]

43. I missed it.

Likely a Good Thing.

[msanthrope]

44. I'm guessing it's MIRT's problem now. nt

[H2O Man]

54. !

[heaven05]

48. yep

after reading the courage and REASON shown here against a lying, cheating sociopath, I got my second wind. thanks.

[polichick]

55. Well said.

[donheld]

121. The hidden post above yours should never have been hidden.

Too many, if there is something posted they don't like It suddenly becomes rude, insensitive...

[polichick]

127. Yeah, I don't get that decision.

[randome]

56. Again: Well said.

[msanthrope]

57. "Your guy?" Isn't he "our guy?" I note your concern. nt

[99Forever]

58. Oh goody...

... snarky nitpicking. That'll win friends and influence people.

I also note you didn't respond to the question I posed to you upthread.

[msanthrope]

61. Are you seriously suggesting that the behavior of an anonymous Internet poster will influence your

voting behavior, or the voting behavior of any potential Obama voter????

Please.

[bvar22]

62. That is certainly the contention of those who ...

... continually insist that ANY criticism or questioning of the current administration
or pointing out the rightward direction of the Democratic Party will "suppress voter turnout."

I'm glad we agree that that persistent claim is completely BOGUS.



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[msanthrope]

66. Not any criticism--but the persistent use of right-wing and Libertarian sources as critique.

Personally, I could have given a rat's ass about the fevered rantings of BBI---it was giving a platform to sources that were right-wing and Libertarian, as an appeal to authority, that was bogus.

Critique the President all you want bvar. I doubt you will change a single vote.

But use DU as a platform for other agendas??? That's a paddlin'

[bvar22]

103. Like Romney, you try to have it both ways.

Consistency is the hallmark of an honest broker.
Your dots don't connect.




[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[99Forever]

63. Save your strawman attempts..

... for someone else. Address the issue of you insulting other members of the Democratic Party for expressing their VALID concerns or don't. That's the ONLY thing I care to discuss with you.

[msanthrope]

72. I generally don't reply to hidden posts. You? nt

[99Forever]

84. My replies and basic question are not hidden...

... yet you have yet to respond to them.

Next excuse?

[msanthrope]

91. I'm not interested in responding to people who use the word 'scumbag' to

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1216698

describe DUers who aren't defending a fugitive rapist.

I think your comportment on various Assange threads speaks for itself.

[99Forever]

94. Run away then.

That says all that's necessary.

Have a nice day.

[msanthrope]

95. I'm right here, in my own thread. Good day to you. nt

[99Forever]

105. Run away from...

... question.

I see you need to have virtually everything explained in detail so you can understand it. Why am I not surprised?

[msanthrope]

109. I said good day, and a further admonition to bless your heart. nt

[99Forever]

111. Shuck and jive.

It's all you've got.

[msanthrope]

64. There you are!!! Now I know I've hit the bigs!! nt

[madrchsod]

60. never did ....

mittens lost and obama won.

[great white snark]

69. Was going to suggest no fluids at night but your OP should do the trick.

OUTSTANDING post msanthrope. So outstanding you brought out some Obama hating heavy hitters.

[yellowcanine]

75. Could we not make fun of bedwetting? Do you make fun of people who stutter?

Bedwetting is not a conscious choice or a character trait any more than stuttering is.

[msanthrope]

82. This bedwetting was a conscious choice because it was done by adults who should know better.

But, I think this is a topic worth Meta--go post there about how 'bedwetting' should be on the list of no-nos.

I'll pop the corn.

[yellowcanine]

106. You obviously think this is a joke. Sorry I don't and I am not playing.

I have no desire to try to get it put on any kind of list. What others think is on or off the "list of no-nos" is not my standard for deciding whether something is morally right. I am speaking as a person who had this as a problem when I was young and it is not funny to me. I also have an elderly father in law who has problems with this because of the blood thinning medications he takes. You can do with that what you want. But I noticed you did not answer my question of whether stuttering is something you would joke about. If you say no I honestly don't see how this is different.

[msanthrope]

110. Meta. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

76. I'm not worried.

I'm looking forward to round two.

[Jennicut]

81. Yes, please! Romney really, really wanted to talk about that 47%.

And Obama would not let him. It is still unresolved for Mittens and then he started the apology tour about it.

[Ratty]

83. Obama had a bit of legroom in the polls

He tried to bring a bit of civility and intelligence back to presidential debates, turning away from the freakshow sound-bite obsessed circus the republicans have turned it into. Of course the media is in a tizzy. "Where's my sound bite? Where's something catty I can report on to spice up the story?? Waaah!"

[WinkyDink]

85. Oh, so SOME DU'ers get to call names and use generalized pejorative terms? All-righty, then.

[msanthrope]

86. Yeah...name the critic I name. nt

[porphyrian]

88. Heh, you've stepped in it now...

[msanthrope]

92. There are some folks on DU I'd love to play poker with. I could retire. nt

[porphyrian]

98. ...

[msanthrope]

100. The funny thing is, though....

I don't play poker.

[porphyrian]

101. I'd bet on you. n/t

[msanthrope]

102. That's one of the nicest things said to me on DU!!! nt

[porphyrian]

104. ...

[Zalatix]

112. Okay, so you gave us your "THIS! IS! SPARTA!!!" speech. Got it.

And you better believe I am PASSING IT ON.

K&R!

[porphyrian]

113. This message was hidden by jury decision.

[woo me with science]

114. LOL.

Well done.

[porphyrian]

116. Thanks. n/t

[Dash87]

115. So... Still waiting for this unstoppable Romney momentum they (Cons) has been talking about.

The rebound that never was? Greg Gutfield, Hannity, and Bill Kristol sure know how to call it.

[Doctor_J]

117. You're worried about re-election. Some of us are worried about governing

the man who was weak, timid, and unprepared Wednesday night cannot possibly hold his own against hostile congress. His performance was a disaster, regardless of how much people hate Rmoney. ANyone who believes we saw "9-D chess" or some masterstroke is, frankly, nearly as delusional as the Birthers. I now know why, even with heavy majorities in Congress in 2009-2010, minimal progress was made. The ONLY reason to go to the polls now is to keep Rmoney out of office. Anyone hoping for real Democratic leadership is quite obviously going to have to wait for 2016.

Yeesh. I wish we could still unrec these nutty vanity posts.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

119. No! I wanted him to tear into Romney like a pit bull and rip out his throat!

Not really. I just figured you should get at lead one insane reply.

I was a champion (state) debater in HS. Granted that was more than two decades ago now, but still. That was the worst moderation I've ever seen. Even on a HS level. Debates have rules, and Romney walked all over them, spewing a stream of lies as he went. I get that people were angry he got away with that. Still, this isn't HS, and there's a lot more at stake than a medal and a trophy. Obama was in a situation where he was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

It was unpleasant to witness, to say the least. So, I get how some people reacted who are honest Obama supporters. Then there's those here who were salivating over the debate to feed their unrest. Trying to make it into something it wasn't.

In the end, I don't see it as having any lasting damage to the elections outcome unless it's repeated. Which I find highly unlikely. So, let the haters froth. They live for it, it's all they have to bring them joy in the world. Sad as that is.

[Bonobo]

120. The only bedwetting was done by those who think losing a debate is losing the election.

Obama has and will go down in history as having been beaten or dominated in the debate.

He came off as weak and not passionate. He nodded too much when he was lectured and he failed to make any strong points.

BUT...as Rachel Maddow has pointed out, it has very little impact on the ultimate results of the election. So don't worry too much about it.

But seriously, the only bedwetting was done by people like you who cannot even stand to hear what people almost unanimously agreed with as Obama's loss in the debates. You sound like children who are angry that they can't watch TV after 10 o'clock. They attack those who gave their honest opinions and stamp their feet like petulant children. They are doing the bedwetting because they are the ones that think it is a big deal.

So... you need to clean your own sheets, wipe the tears off your face and pull it together. It's not the end of the world. But he did perform poorly.

[polichick]

126. Your screen name matches the tone of your message perfectly.

[Iggy]

128. Major Teachable Moments Missed...

when you can pull 60 MIL people away from the football game, you have to take advantage.

regarding Willard's "You spent $90 BIL in one year on incentives for green industries". Rmoney stated
this what? Three times?

Obama's response: crickets....

I get the political expediency behind this (avoiding Solyndra fiasco) but unfortunately Obama totally
blew it on this-- the American people have to understand and commit to the new clean energy
paradigm. Obama needs to explain just why incentives are needed to get the green energy industry
up and running long term.

Obama has to state that studies show the transition to clean energy will in fact create 1,000's of
new jobs and keep our nation on track to deal with, hellooooooo? Climate change.

He didn't do any of this-- just to avoid talking about one mistake.

weak.

[msanthrope]

132. Um--$90 billion on green industries is a good thing that got a great response from the

President's base. You think anyone voting for Obama is upset or disappointed by that expenditure? You think he lost independents? Nope--and within 24 hours, Romney was apologizing for overstating the rate of failure---the President got great coverage on the networks about 94% of the companies invested in succeeding.

Heck--I had progressives tell me that they didn't know the President had spent that much and they were happy about it.

That was a Romney MISTAKE--just as stupid as suggesting that cutting the military (after two wars) was a bad thing.

Teachable moment??? I hope Romney does not learn from that mistake.

[Iggy]

137. I don't give a Crap About Rmoney

I want the American people (many not all that bright to begin with) to understand why we need to
spend money to incentivise green industries... that's the teachable moment I am referring to that
was missed by Obama. he blew it

[msanthrope]

139. You don't "teach the American people" anything in that setting. nt

[Iggy]

141. WRONG Again....

thus what IS the purpose of these so called "debates" then?

A sort of sophomoric popularity contest like the shmucks who run for class president in High School?

Gimme a break. there are dozens of writers/pundits out there making the same point I am.

thanks for the weak spin attempt

[msanthrope]

129. Social Security. Do we have to change the sheets again?

http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team/entry/how-president-obama-and-mitt-romney-compare-on-preserving-social-security-f?source=primary-nav

[Bobbie Jo]

142. I'm thinking rubber sheets

for some it seems to be a chronic condition.

[gulliver]

138. Our side's pundits really blew it.

I hope they get the message. If they hadn't started squalling after the debate, it would have been a split decision. Our pundits gave the media permission to come down hard on Obama. They really blew it, and I hope they know it.

[msanthrope]

140. They know it now. nt

[bluestate10]

143. President Obama's research team did a poor job.

And the President did a poor job during the debate. One issue that turned my stomach was Romney claiming that he worked with the democratic legislature in Massachusetts to get RomneyCare. The fact is that Romney agreed to the health care plan only after it was clear that the legislature was going to approve and implement it's own plan over a Romney veto. Even after agreeing to a plan, Romney tried to gut three key provisions and was over-ridden by the legislature. Even after the legislature forced the law down Romney's throat, Romney dragged his feet implementing the law. Romney set up insurance industry lackeys to set up the critical exchange, making a fucking mess joke of the exchange. The Massachusetts health care law didn't truly get implemented until after Deval Patrick won election in 2006 and came in with the intention of fixing the plan and getting the exchange working. Patrick and the legislature worked hand in hand, Patrick replaced the Romney appointees with consumer oriented health plan administrators, the plan took off establishing more plan choices, getting more companies to make plan offerings and enrolling more children and adults of every background. In essence, RomneyCare should be called PatrickMassachusettsLegislatureCare. I am fucking enraged that Obama's research team didn't fucking investigate Romney's only claim to fame and provided the President with ammo to walk on stage with. The miss can't fucking happen again because we will have an election that is closer than it should be.

[msanthrope]

145. Kick. nt