Donald Trump shouldn't be tried for tax fraud, he should be tried for mass murder

[babylonsister]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/12/26/2002578/-Donald-Trump-shouldn-t-be-tried-for-tax-fraud-he-should-be-tried-for-mass-murder

Donald Trump shouldn't be tried for tax fraud, he should be tried for mass murder
Mark Sumner for Daily Kos
Daily Kos Staff
Saturday December 26, 2020 · 4:30 PM EST

snip//

The person who determines to kill with cold knowledge of what they are doing, and with expectation of some personal gain, is regarded as the worst form of killer. And that is exactly what Donald Trump did when he knowingly made the decision to halt plans for national testing and contact tracing.

Trump understood that aggressive national guidelines on social distancing, the institution of a national testing program, and follow-up with a program of contact tracing could save a large number of lives and restrict the spread of COVID-19. He had examples before him of exactly how successful a program could be.

On March 13, the day that Trump rolled out what was supposed to be a nationwide set of drive-thru testing facilities sited at thousands of “big box” retailers and backed by a website created by “7,000 engineers from Google,” South Korea had just finished utterly crushing the initial outbreak in that country. They had done so using exactly the techniques that were being advocated on that day: widespread testing, detailed contact tracing, strict quarantine of infected individuals, and isolation of those in contact with the infected. It wasn’t just South Korea. Other nations, such as Taiwan, smashed their first surge of cases in the same way, and did so in spite of close proximity and regular contact with the area of China that had seen the original outbreak.

But Trump did not follow the announcement on March 13 with an actual system of either testing or case tracing. The website that he cited did not exist. The testing facilities themselves never went past a handful of poorly supplied locations mismanaged by Jared Kushner and his college buddies. That was not a failure born from ignorance or bumbling, though there was plenty of both to go around. It was an intentional decision made by Trump and his White House staff to allow COVID-19 to ravage the country because he believed it would be to his political advantage.

As Trump watched disaster unfold in New York City, he didn’t think, “What can I do to help?” He thought, “Excellent.” He thought that if he continued to pull his punches against the virus, the death toll would climb primarily in blue states. He thought the blame would fall on Democratic politicians. He thought he could hold on to power by walking over a sea of bodies.

Trump murdered Americans for personal gain, with calculated intent and full knowledge of what he was doing. Whether the United States honors the ICC or not, there is absolutely no doubt that Trump’s actions fit the definition of both genocide and crimes against humanity. He deserves a trial and punishment appropriate to scale of those crimes.

And don’t even get me started on the sedition …

[North Shore Chicago]

1. How about

all of the above.

Grow some ovaries Democrats! We can walk and chew gum!

[judesedit]

7. Yes. And I love that, "grow some ovaries" lol

[judesedit]

8. They already have balls and they're not working

[ananda]

12. So true!

[triron]

42. Add several other crimes including sedition, obstruction of justice, and bribery.

[malaise]

2. Precisely

Rec

[OldBaldy1701E]

3. Well

That's how they got Capone off of the streets. I am for whatever will remove him from the public eye, and if that is what is going to do it, then so be it.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. If they don't nab him quick

he'll make Florida an encampment and arrange an evacuation by helicopter to a ship and parts unknown.

[Iliyah]

5. K & R . . .

also add the republican party, shithole's family and cronies and allies.

[spanone]

6. ⭐️⭐️K&R⭐️⭐️

[ucrdem]

9. It is getting harder to deny.

All those white house parties and events in the last couple of months, knowing they were sick and guests were getting sick, knowing Herman Cain had died, but keeping up the invites and soirées -- what else could explain it but calculated intent to kill?

from Pew Research:

In the early stages of the pandemic, the hardest hit districts were overwhelmingly “blue” parts of the country. COVID-19 deaths in the March through May period were more than four times as high in strongly Democratic districts (where Republican congressional candidates received less than 25% of the vote in the 2018 midterm elections) as in districts where Republican candidates won more than 60% of the 2018 vote.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/12/08/the-changing-geography-of-covid-19-in-the-u-s/

Would this guy really kill to win? Answer: Is the water wet?

[barbtries]

10. I'm thinking international tribunal.

Depraved Indifference: "To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime."


or maybe he could be tried in New York under this law:
https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/2-PenalLaw/125/125-25%282%29.pdf

[ansible]

13. About as likely as Bush could've been tried for Iraq

Not prosecuting Bush was a huge mistake that continues to haunt us.

[barbtries]

14. 100 percent agree.

from Nixon to Reagan to both of the Bushes. At any time a proper prosecution would have precluded trump. I am bitter about that.

[RocRizzo55]

53. So I am not the only one

Good to know.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. Memory fuzzy.... Isn't that why they can't go outside the country?

Because they would be arrested?

[oldsoftie]

21. No one is going to arrest Bush if he goes outside the country.

Its silly to even think that would happen.
No, there are no warrants or pending warrants for either of them.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. Way back when, it was possible and they didn't travel. Not

In members interest to file charges and piss off US.

[former9thward]

37. They can and do go out of the country.

Bush has been out many times. It is a internet urban legend that they can't.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. From Politifact...Old post from 2014

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/jul/17/facebook-posts/are-george-w-bush-dick-cheney-unable-visit-europe-/


Where Bush and Cheney have traveled outside the United States

We couldn’t find any examples of Bush or Cheney visiting Europe, but they have traveled to other countries since they left office. Bush visited Haiti as part of an effort by the charitable foundation he co-founded with former President Bill Clinton after a devastating earthquake in the Caribbean nation. And Bush also joined Clinton at a regional economic summit held in the Canadian province of British Columbia. Cheney, meanwhile, has gone to British Columbia to promote his book, In My Time: A Personal and Political Memoir.

But these trips weren’t without turbulence. Typically, protesters have followed both Bush and Cheney

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. Sad we can't find any justice here. Small there wouldn't be

Any jurisdiction issues with an international court?

[barbtries]

20. probably it couldn't happen.

but there must be an avenue for justice.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

23. 100% agree. Why I've ranted on end for swifter actions on

Impeachment or at a bare minimum, censure close as possible to crime. His covid crimes transcend all the political crap though. Yet, we didn't react that way. We sugarcoated it and labeled it "mismanagement" ... Which could imply decent motives and he had none.

Why GOPers and trump are always fighting for limits on liability rights.

Maybe, at a minimum, a class action by all victim families?

If you read history on the founders they often talked about protecting the citizens. Write it up and impeach him on Tuesday.

[triron]

48. So right on.

[maryallen]

54. Absolutely!

No time like the present.

[Aviation Pro]

11. The really frightening possibility

Is had he done the mentioned, he would have won the election in a walk.

[niyad]

15. He is a stone cold killer. I am beginning to believe that that "shooting someone on Fifth Ave.

is a confession, not just a boast.

[MoonRiver]

16. Just told my husband the same thing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

25. +1. Often think we are way ahead of political analysts.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

17. Mark Summer! You are spot on with a couple exceptions.

#1. Trump knew in January that virus was airborne and deadly. He did not warn and claimed he was worried about panic. But just the fact that he had that excuse ready is evidence of guilt. Others who knew were accomplices to negligent homicide too.

#2. Trump DID try to help NYC... How? In his twisted mind, he thought he'd be glorified by flaunting his power in a showy display of getting that ship there.

[lonely bird]

22. Won't happen

Whether it should or not isn’t the point. It simply will not happen.

If NY gets him on taxes and fraud then he will go to jail which is fine by me. He would die in jail. Which is also fine by me. No tweets, not hearing that grating voice with a third grader’s vocabulary would be excellent.

[certainot]

24. the evidence is there in the coordination of covid denial with limbaugh

trump has been coordinating with limbaugh since at least the 2016 primaries and limmbaugh would not have called it an outright hoax the first 2 months if trump had not wanted it.

people have seen enough of trump to know he is capable of being convinced the worse it got the better he could use it for reelection.

and the 2014 'october' surprise that netted republicans 9 senate seats and that limbaugh played such an important part gave then a model. trump is stupid enough to compare the two diseases

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. Interesting. So if you were in court you would enter evidence

that trump had been informed that the virus was airborne and deadly THEN enter subsequent statements that it was a hoax? Proving cover-up/ murderous motives? What possible defense would you have for calling it a hoax?

Add in the concerted effort to make all the stats fuzzy. Would be very interesting to know from where and when PPE requests came in and when they were fulfilled.

See this same thing happening with the vaccines. His cronies announcing huge #s of vaccines out there and us not knowing if bogus or not.

[certainot]

39. and a question for limbaugh - did trump tell him how deadly it was when they coordinated

to call it a hoax?

there's no reason he would not tell limbaugh what he was told by briefers about the potential. there are numerous pics of them socializing, golfing, eating meals and they're neighbors in palm beach.

ironically if limbaugh had a chance of beating the lung cancer with the best treatments money can buy it was trump that needed him to repeatedly delay treatments to stay on the job to lead important messaging coordination

[Laura PourMeADrink]

46. And it's so hard to imagine a dying man agreeing to

act to keep others blind of health danger. Talk about swampy.

They could ask Rush if trump told him covid was real. But, what if trump answered "of course"? How could Rush explain his own part in it without incriminating himself? He'd have to say trump said no.

[certainot]

49. trump probably told him about the worst case scenarios from the DOD and CDC etc

limbaugh in early part of the pandemic explained that it was a dem hoax that dems were going to use to hurt trump and force big govt socialist solutions - the only way to fix this. limbaugh would have told trump that while trump's simple mind was trying to figure out how to use it for profit and reelection.

for some reason in 2014 trump criticized obama about ebola response - he got the message to add on - was that russia then?

were they going to use the 2019 ebola outbreak the same way for election success? who was doing the social media sabotage inciting locals in the congo to attack ebola clinics? limmbaugh was talking about congolese in the 'caravans' 'invading' the southern border. did that just happen and end too fast to use and they decided to morph into using COVID instead?

i'll bet putin was part of the trump/limbaugh strategy.

[Jetheels]

26. This article angers me.

Did the author forget that the president knew about the virus in December and said zilch?
Did the author not know that the president sold our PPE to other countries, when the bodies were piling up in meat lockers on the streets of NYC.
Did the author not know that Central Park had a Covid hospital in tents when the president was pitting states against each other in bidding wars for PPE.
The crimes are endless, why mention so few?
Not to be cynical but I doubt NY will ever prosecute trump. I’ve lived here 40 years. There’s a reason he said I could shoot someone on 5th ave..............there’s a reason he’s been called Teflon don............anyway I should stop reading the news.
And the latest bs trump saying he wants 2,000k for everyone. Whaaaaaaat? He doesnt give a shit about anyone getting anything but himself. I’m just pissed that the media, after 4 years now, doesn’t get what’s behind this latest scam.
I was thinking after Biden won that we dodged a bullet.
I’m more afraid to open the news now more than ever.
With the trash and burn leaving the White House.
And the possibility of the continued growth of trumpism.
How bout we start holding this monster accountable for all his crimes!
Every single one.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

32. Thought same thing at first... Author left out too much. But

He did highlight a couple things that hadn't been highlighted before.

But this just makes me think how it all could be pieced together. Every action.

Trump's biggest fear is that someone would accumulate all his actions.

[Jetheels]

40. Ok get your sewing needle and thread out...here's some pieces....1,028 crimes and counting...

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-so-far-atrocities-1-1-028

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. Yes my favorite compilation... On my profile. How I knew

Trump had lifted Obama reg to stop coal companies from dumping poisonous sludge into waters. Of course never mentioned in our campaign ads

[marlakay]

41. He's been accusing democrats of doing

All the things he is doing first so no one will think he did them.

Playing the victim and blame game.

I can only hope he gets called on his actions one day.

[wnylib]

27. I agree with everything in the OP.

Last edited Sun Dec 27, 2020, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

But, realistically, it's not likely to happen.

There probably will be investigations that reveal how widespread and despicable his and his family's and political allies' crimes are, but I doubt there will be prosecutions or trials. The process of investigations will be lengthy and as difficult as the evidence gathering impeachment was, with 50 ways of obfusacting to contend with.

We might well have to be satisfied with some truths being openly exposed, e.g. the depths of collusion between Trump, members of Congress, and Russia. Add the full reality of their decision to let people die for their political and personal gain. Some people will never accept these facts, but getting them out there without mincing words, in official investigations, might be the most we can accomplish.

We need to do at least that much, though. Personally, I think a documentary film could accomplish as much. To protect themselves from lawsuits, the producers would have to stick to publicly recorded statements and events regarding the spread of covid, its damage, and the consequences economically, physicallly, and emotionally to survivors and the nation as a whole.

Some scenes could show NYC with hospital tents, refrigerator trucks, and health care workers without PPE while Trump's voice plays in the background telling Woodward how bad it is, followed by Trump saying publicly that it will be gone in a few days, nothing to worry about. Pull no punches. With consent of people or relatives involved, show film of how horrible it is for covid sufferers during and after infection.

Telling doesn't work. The legal system is slow and difficult. But showing drives it home. No need to dramatize it. The situation itself is dramatic enough. Just show it as it is and was, the full story as it developed and how the actions and inactions made it happen.

The real life story is more horrible than the film version of Contagion.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. A Woodward tape snippet sticks out to me as incriminating.

Think woodward asked something like... "Aren't you worried you will get Covid?". Trump said something like... He knew he could get it but 80 yo appeared to be the cut off between survival and likely death.

To me this implies that 1) he was privy to, and knowledgeable about survival statistics, 2) he was only thinking about himself and his chances, and 3) he did nothing to immediately protect elderly citizens.

[wnylib]

43. Absolutely. He knew. Didn't care.

I didn't see Contagion until well into the covid pandemic. Missed it before, somehow. Then I ordered a DVD set of both Contagion and Outbreak (which I had seen before). Friends said I was being morbid to watch them in a real pandemic, but I wanted to compare how true to life they are. It's one thing to watch an imaginary horror and walk away feeling, "Well, it's just a movie." Quite another thing to actually live the horror that was once just a movie.

Outbreak's theme fits the conspiracy theory that there's secret government knowledge of a dangerous virus and also a secret cure being withheld in order to use the virus as a biological weapon. But it's not completely off the mark since, in real life, the president actually did know and did keep the full knowledge a secret from the public. And worse, he did treat it like a biological weapon, but against his own country, for personal political gain.

There is one scene in Outbreak that I wish everyone would see in order to drive home the reality of viral spread in public places. It shows an infected man seated in the back of a theater, coughing. As the spectators laugh at the movie they're watching, the scene shows a droplet aerosolizing and floating ahead several rows to land in the open mouth of a laughing spectator. This is followed by a swamped ER when several movie goers show up infected.

Contagion is so true to life in everyday details that it's an advance warning of what is now going on. The knowkedge of how this would play out existed in advance. And Trump did nothing. We have not yet reached the level of social breakdown that occurred in Contagion when shortages occurred as the supply chains broke down due to illness in manufacturing and shipping, but we're not far behind. We might get there with the more infectious strain of covid discovered in the UK. It's already in Toronto, and that's not far from us in western NY. Consider how long it will take to get the vaccination to millions of Americans and we're in a race between vaccine and accelerated covid spread.

In Contagion, the government functions as it should in a pandemic, with international WHO cooperation and CDC experts in control at home. Contrast that with what has been and is happening in today's real pandemic. Contagion shows the military handing out MREs to the public. Trump won't even allow emergency funding to pass. In Contagion, the disinformation about contagion and phony cures comes from a huckster on social media out to make a buck from a cult following. In real life today, the huckster is the president himself.

That's when I thought that we need a true to life documentary showing exactly what really did happen and how. There are plenty of audios and videos available to tell the whole story, supplemented with interviews. It could be called Contagion 2, The Real Story.

[Wounded Bear]

29. The charges are not mutually exclusive...

[dalton99a]

30. All his crimes must be exposed and recorded for history

And he must be held accountable

[Laura PourMeADrink]

34. Should have at a bare minimum censured along to way. At least

It would all be on record.

[ecstatic]

44. +1000. nt

[ariesgem]

35. And if he pardons himself or Pence pardons him,

the states can go after his ass.

[nakocal]

45. He should be tried for both

and also tried for EVERY other crime he has committed. His children and their spouses also need to be tried, convicted, and imprisoned.

[tblue37]

50. Why not both, plus several other crimes as well.

[Permanut]

51. Meanwhile, the mass murderer is adored..

by millions of "pro-family" and "pro-life" koolaid drinking Bible thumpers.

Orwell couldn't have written a stranger tale.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

52. There isn't enough time left in his life for him to be tried for every

crime he's committed. So, yeah, go for the big ones. He's a goddamed monster. Worse than him, though are his enablers & supporters, without whom he would never have had the power to do so very much damage.