General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOn a scale of 1 to 10, how important is it to you that Trump is eventually jailed for his crimes?
with 1 being that it's not at all important to you to see him go to jail
with 10 meaning that it's absolutely necessary and incredibly important to you that he goes to jail
and with "crimes" meaning any of his many crimes no matter when they were committed.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)That way I'm not disappointed.
IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)I am sure we all do over the last four years. I think they call it LEARNED HELPLESSNESS.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)IsItJustMe
(7,012 posts)But every now and then I find that the Universe has a way of surprising you. As long as there is life, there is hope.
Or else this will happen again in 2024, only this time not the village idiot like Trump.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,160 posts)That old saying was never more applicable:
Not only must justice be done, but it must be SEEN to have been done.
trueblue2007
(19,251 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)chased for the rest of his miserable life by courts and is bankrupted.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)we have, he may very well be successful. We are looking at economic collapse...we must send help to the American people period. We have two years and then we are likely to lose the house if we don't show that we are fighting for people. Our model is a cross between FDR and Truman...send massive help anyway you can and run against the do nothing congress on a daily basis. Biden should go on twitter,Facebook ET AL f and tell the truth about McConnell and the GOP. He should have the equivalent of fireside chats. He
and campaign for house members and other folks running in special elections.
The 22 midterm begins now. And for God sakes let's not give the DNC to someone who is politically attractive but to someone who is competent and can successfully employ a 50 state strategy. I wish Howard Dean would do it. He was the most successful one we ever had. Consider that if the GOP had the house we would like be looking at dictator / president Trump.
Trump is an old man who won't live that much longer. We need to make him part of the past and do what we can to save our country from these evil folks. I also believe that Bloomberg and other wealthy people who are on our side should be approached with the idea of creating a large progressive media that will get our message out instead of the both-siderism we find in traditional media.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I have no doubt that the Supreme Court would rule - probably unanimously - that the president's pardon power does not include the right to pardon herself or himself.
And while I once thought it possible Trump would step down and let Pence pardon him, I no longer think that will happen.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I consider it 50-50
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)presidency.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Such an approach not only completely contradicts the Constitution and conflicts with the Founders' original intent, it takes the notion of an "imperial presidency" to such ridiculous levels, even the likes of Kavanaugh wouldn't allow it.
And even if some members of the Court went for it - which I think is nearly impossible - there is no way that five of them would.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)refuse to hear the case.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)his self pardon would not cover all the other ongoing investigations that are currently in progress such as the ones going on in New York. A self pardon, not that it would ever work, would only cover his federal crimes. It's pretty obvious that is worried to death about going to jail once he becomes Citizen Trump again. You might not think he has enough years left to see it happen, but at the age of 74, he just might.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)delayed indefinitely. Perhaps we can take some of his money at the court level and IRS could force him to pay what he owes...other than that turn, the page. We have homeless families and starving kids. Unless you have a strong desire to help the GOP win in 2022 and 2024 move on...let's get some stuff done.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)My post was clearly about how important it is to anyone here that he goes to jail. If it's not at all important to you, then why not just state it instead of beating around the bush and trying to change the meaning of the OP.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)windmills. That being said I hope the states and the AG look into the matter...I don't want Congress involved. We need to govern. We have two years before we are likely to lose the house if things don't change we can't waste those years on revenge/bringing Trump to justice,...we need to get some policy done...otherwise we may not have a chance for years. Don't get me wrong. Trump is scum sucking murderer and a criminal...but the Republic and American citizens are my priority. I don't believe anyone learns their lesson either...particularly not Republicans. The next one will merely try harder.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)That we can agree on for sure.
I agree with most of the rest of that post, too, but I also feel that any time spent on pursuing justice for Trump, either by NYS or by any other means, is time well spent. I think the Biden administration will get whatever it is that needs to be done without having to "waste" their own time bringing Trump to justice because they are going to leave that aspect up to the other authorities to do that job.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)of doing it to consider.
Would those saying 10 still feel that way if they knew it would mean giving the Republicans large majorities in congress and several red-again states two years from now, and losing the WH to them also in 2024? And the ACA is subsequently repealed? Huge costs, but suggested make the problem clear.
If we could know the cost was handleable, that we're hurt and have real ground to make up, but not disastrously, I'd be a 10. Never again. I believe our representatives should all fear the consequences of crossing us. And of course, no one should ever be above the law.
But we don't know. And given what the right has become, their hated opponents jailing a president they elected would be more likely to enrage and energize more than it enlightened. Even those glad to have him gone would resent it.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)think Republicans will learn their lesson are deluded. They never do. I think our side really believes if only Trump is exposed, all will be well. I heard the same sort of argument for impeachment...once all was revealed...people would come to their senses. The problem is that doesn't happen.
If I thought we could go after Trump and give him what he deserves for his criminal behavior and the literal murder of thousands of Americans, I would vote '10' in a heartbeat. But I think it will only deepen the divide and inflame Trump supporters. It also keeps Trump in the news. Also, we get no policy during a Democratic presidency...really we only got the ACA and LGBTQ rights out of eight years of Obama's presidency. But in 22 and 24 as you pointed out, it could be worse. We could lose not just the elections but policy we have fought for over decades. Trump simply isn't worth it.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)from SCOTUS legalizing gay marriage by judicial fiat. Even the many conservatives who supported gay rights were enraged at having that decision imposed on their states, contributing to their scorched-earth culture warring.
Someday, though, there might well be a "DUI effect" on society, including the right, of criminalizing political lawbreaking. Once we got that far.
That is, when MADD et al succeeded in getting the act of DUI itself criminalized, not just running someone down, the previously largely permissive attitude of society swung 180 degrees. DUI was now something criminals did.
Conservatives tend to be notoriously intolerant of those who get in trouble with the authorities anyway, so if we could get to the point where society expected criminal politicians to be prosecuted and incarcerated, I think it would do us the same world of good. And the Trump era should provide others in many governments to help reshape attitudes with.
I do wonder how attitudes toward Trump himself will change with his legal problems and other unflattering behaviors as a civilian. Probably his current behaviors aren't doing him any good with his supporters.
There should be real utility in state governments going after him for financial and other non-political crimes, again working on that gut-level conservative bias that people who get in trouble with the law must be guilty and need to be punished.
poli-junkie
(1,567 posts)Turin_C3PO
(16,385 posts)vapor2
(4,509 posts)His biggest crime = 300k covid deaths
CanonRay
(16,171 posts)Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(61,857 posts)I will reword it, though - it is important to the country, the world, the future that he be jailed - that he pays.
Personally, I've not watched a trump speech. He is lower than dog turd to me. I would never let anything to do with that asshole or his cult become a part of what is core to my life - my wife, kids, pets, friends, hobbies.
If all goes well, I will never have to give him a second of contemplation ever again.
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)Digger
(478 posts)Walleye
(44,804 posts)I think being broke would be as bad as being in jail for him. And hes always in the jail of his own mind
Squinch
(59,522 posts)Silver Gaia
(5,361 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)They cannot be pardoned for state crimes and god knows there is enough there to put them away for a good, long time.
However, in Trump's case alone, I would be satisfied with him being six-feet under, as long as the rest of his family is brought to justice.
Baltimike
(4,441 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)you create another fascist as the GOP is all set to steal the next election. Punishing Trump would feel great, but saving the Republic would be better. If you go after Trump on the federal level...not a damn thing will get done and we will be blamed. Trump isn't worth losing our Republican and that is what is at stake here. Let the AG decide stay out of it. Hopefully he will be charged at the state level. Also Biden should fire anyone associated with the witch hunt against Hunter Biden. That needs to stopped immediately. That would also really piss Trump off big time.
Actions have consequences! We have laws for a reason
milestogo
(23,082 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)A brazilion
matt819
(10,749 posts)A brazilion
walkingman
(10,863 posts)Trenzalore
(2,575 posts)I may be optimistic here but when he is out of power and out of the daily news cycle some of his hold on his supporters will wane
There are about 50 repukes looking at themselves in the mirror right now that see a President in 2024. They can't do that with him on center stage. They won't do it overnight but they will begin being critical of him on right wing media a few weeks after he is actually out of office. It will be a slow but deliberate chipping away at him with the base until he isn't a candidate.
Doodley
(11,912 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,232 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)We really should move on let the AG decide and states...let it go and show what good government looks like.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,232 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)and I don't dispute I hate Trump enough to enjoy the show...but that makes Trump the star of the next four years...other than the AG or the States doing whatever they do...ignoring Trump would be his worst punishment for Trump...he will never see the inside of a jail cell most likely given his age and health, but I have hope that the states will bankrupt him. What would be worse for him would be if we pass Democratic policy...we use this time to finally make our platform meaningful...instead nothing but a fight every four years. We need to govern now...make that our priority...or we may not get another opportunity anytime soon..healthcare, medicare, social security, new green jobs, infrastructure, a living wage and of course ending the Covid crisis including both medical and economic aspects. We will not be able to do both...let Trump be gone and forgotten.
Fiendish Thingy
(23,232 posts)grumpyduck
(6,672 posts)Send a message to all the fucking assholes.
The OP asked. That's my answer.
If we want to continue with this whole "nation of laws, not men" idea, and that no one is above the law, then we have to. It won't teach him anything because he's unreachable, but it will give pause to the next fascist dictator wannabe.
GoCubsGo
(34,914 posts)He HAS to be held accountable. Otherwise, this shit's going to happen again and again.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Actually, I'd love to see him in Rikers.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)tblue37
(68,436 posts)Totally Tunsie
(11,852 posts)BTW, this question would have been great in a "Poll" format for the visual.
tblue37
(68,436 posts)jrthin
(5,225 posts)Without that we cannot prevent a debacle like him from happening again. Further, not holding him accountable sets a bad precedent for our country and future leaders. We tell future leaders that they can get away with whatever they can get away with. As a country we must unequivocally behave like no one is above the law and mean it.
c-rational
(3,203 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)moving forward we demand the cheating lying Republicans get theirs...not saying they don't deserve it, but the best revenge would be to shore up health care, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, infrastructure, send green new jobs...Trump is gone let the states deal with him. I believe if we don't really work hard to improve our economy and get out of this mess we are going to lose badly in 22 and 24.
ansible
(1,718 posts)Democratic party needs to stop wimping out and actually hold republican assholes accountable to the law. If Trump gets off with nothing, it'll be yet another failure after Nixon and Bush, who both should've gone to prison!
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)think investigating Trump and making him a victim and giving him huge amounts of publicity is really punishing him? We won't succeed in this ...I am telling you. All we will do is waste time and set ourselves up for a shellacking in the next two elections. And more importantly, we will never get any of our policy into law. The worst thing for the GOP is for people to see how much better life is under Democratic government than the chaos that is a GOP administration.
Raine
(31,177 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)samplegirl
(13,984 posts)We have to stop this party from doing crimes and walking!
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)It ought to be 10 but since he'll only go to jail (IF he does at all) for peripheral crimes, not the big seditious-level stuff, that already takes away from the message.
LeftInTX
(34,294 posts)I remember they were comparing Blagojevich and Trump's hair on TV...
I can't think of any reason Blagojevich was pardoned other than having a similar hairstyle to Trump
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:37 AM - Edit history (1)
The fury and hate I have for him (luckily I have deep, deep, joy, wonder & great fun to counterbalance this), for what he's done to our country upping the racism & sexism, anti immigrants, LGBTQI community etc... effecting us and the world!
ETA: I get so upset about the above, and below Details forget to mention the good laws he's destroyed - environmental, various safety regs,bad laws he's added, and the grifting!
And what seems like besides criminal drepraved indifferentce to life - murder? by deliberately affecting help to Blue States knowing it would effect the Black and Latinx communities more ! 😩😠😠🤬
Has to be SOME kind of accounting!
Skittles
(171,710 posts)so I don't waste time on it
JT45242
(4,043 posts)If he turns on every bribe, every kid, and every Republican he can be under house arrest in Trump tower with an ankle monitor. But every one else goes to jail.
He forfeits all assets except his apartment in Trump tower.
Thomas Hurt
(13,982 posts)He is an old, rich white man without a record, and he was President they aren't going to put in prison.
The world would be best served if the Pig died in his bed in a year or two.
sinkingfeeling
(57,835 posts)Delmette2.0
(4,503 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)and will be dead within a few years. We have way more important things to do...let the states and the AG determine what will be done. We meaning the president and Congress move on...don't make Trump the focus of the next four years unless you love losing elections.
kacekwl
(9,147 posts)And a big fat 10 for all the republicans who also committed crimes.
kentuck
(115,406 posts)..then it is probably very important for the Democratic Party?
Which is probably why Joe Biden is waiting until January to name an Attorney General? Perhaps after the GA election?
It is good to have the majority if you wish to investigate these criminals.
It is important that justice be done.
No justice, no peace. No justice, no Party.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)the evil star of the next four years...to hell with winning in 2022 or 2024...going after Trump is what what will be most satisfying.
what a waste of a Biden presidency if you ask me. When will we actually achieve policy wins? You know the stuff we put in our platform but almost never accomplish any of it...the ACA being the only bright spot really and LGBTQ rights as well.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,957 posts)Glorfindel
(10,175 posts)dustyscamp
(2,705 posts)Trump needs to be held accountable. If he doesn't see prison he needs to be held accountable in some other way. The bastard has caused so much suffering and death it would be a tremendous mistake to not punish him in some form. No Justice No Fucking Peace!!!!!!!!!!!
handmade34
(24,017 posts)merely need all money taken from him as well as the ability to make more... (worse than jail for him)
Kingofalldems
(40,277 posts)dwilso40641
(203 posts)flotsam
(3,268 posts)After January 20th we have an entire forest that needs watering.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)He's a goner politically
Focus on the next threat
mvd
(65,912 posts)Biden himself can focus on undoing Trumps considerable damage.
mvd
(65,912 posts)I gave a 9 in importance only because Biden having a successful term is the most important to me.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Trump has won. We are in serious trouble and now the GOP has the road map to stealing elections...have the house and the senate and pretend that there is fraud. We must not only win but win with large margins...and millions of Americans have been convinced that government is the enemy...let's get some of our policy through and start changing that.
Timewas
(2,739 posts)marlakay
(13,282 posts)If we don't show punishment for illegal behavior.
Luciferous
(6,586 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)they will have destroyed the Republic...what we need to do is work to win with large margins and send help to starving Americans...you all want a fight. Lord knows I hate Trump but I love the Republic more. And plenty of GOP assholes have gone to jail for various offenses, and I never noticed any of them or those who followed learned any sort of lesson.
MizLibby
(396 posts)10
TexasLefty29
(190 posts)- I dont see how he hasnt been assassinated yet. Because of that, 10.
moonscape
(5,722 posts)because the likelihood hovers around sub-0. But, his daily suffering is stratospherically important.
I want his calls not to be returned, for him to have nobody to talk to in the dead of night, and day, when his demons are eating him alive. I want him ruined financially, to not feel a moment of incoming humanity thr rest of his sorry life, to not be mentioned again in public except as an object of ridicule and to have no headlines in print again ever, and for even his cult to abandon him.
I wish him not another day of peace or security.
LeftInTX
(34,294 posts)He will try a few rallies, but it won't work...He will be miserable without his rallies, perks and fans.
While you and I might be happy retiring and watching Netflix this guy will not.
his losing the election is plenty of punishment for him. Legal cases are not as easy to prove as DU often thinks. And it would keep him in the news, claiming he is the real POTUS, blah, blah, blah, giving him attention which he craves - he would love being on trial, playing the victim of the unfair proceedings and saying outrageous things that get media coverage. And keep his base fired up and the other Republicans acting like they need to seem to be behind him.
dweller
(28,409 posts)n/t
✌🏻
lastlib
(28,264 posts)"BILLions and BILLions and BILLions of stars......"
electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)Its about 2022 as much as 2024. Its going to be a rough couple of years.
We need to be able to point to the corruption and incompetence that caused the problems. Letting them go feeds the bs that both sides are the same.
I want people to remember how we got here.
electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)BainsBane
(57,757 posts)I can handle that.
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)As in 100 years in prison
betsuni
(29,078 posts)Crime and punishment only works if you feel bad about it.
mshasta
(2,108 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(23,232 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,782 posts)It's up to the courts as to whether he goes to jail. Unfortunately as long as he's alive, he will continue to damage our society via the media even if he's jailed.
From my personal perspective, because of the evil things he's done and his destructive mentality, he needs to somehow be isolated from humanity for the rest of his days - jail, mental institution, remote island......whatever.
Having watched our system of justice operate for over 50-years as an adult (I'm 73), I doubt him ever serving a single day behind bars.
I worry far more about the collective mental condition of our society that elected him far more than about Trump himself.
KY
NNadir
(38,045 posts)That should be a rather large number.
Response to mtnsnake (Original post)
geralmar This message was self-deleted by its author.
RockCreek
(1,471 posts)10, and ALL crimes.
Also collaborators, enablers (including family) etc.
Meowmee
(9,212 posts)As well as all of his collaborators- as an example to prevent the next bunch of fascists who will obviously have a lot of support.
but I'd vote 10 for he croaks preferably from Covid 10 on a ventilator
panader0
(25,816 posts)In jail with no hairdresser. Utterly humiliated and shamed in front of his base.
Death from a heart attack in the coming year would not be nearly enough punishment.
Beringia
(5,507 posts)But I don't know the in's and out's as well as so many others.
Ani Yun Wiya
(829 posts)This should not be subject to polling type questions.
The offenses committed are worthy of more than "jail".
The clown should be arrested at the earliest possible moment,
given a most speedy trial and upon conviction offered a choice
between plank, gibbet or blindfold...
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,710 posts)and all will be forgiven
SKKY
(12,801 posts)msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)100, 000,000,000,000,00000000000000000000000000000000000
Oh and his entire family including his sister the corrupt judge, except maybe Tiffany who I'd pardon.
electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)... 😁
I once looked up really big numbers!
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)cuz like the universe, it's always been a thing of mystery to me.
But I'm always awed by folks who understand that language.
electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)I have a weird split in my understanding of numbers.
I barely made it through algregra, let alone trig
and luckily managed to avoid any other higher math classes. My Art College didn't require any. I did do pretty well in geometry bc of my artist nature - shapes and stuff .
But the weirdest part is my extremely high ability to abstract, and imagine (hence how I can draw very imaginary things, landscapes, etc) - let's me understand certain over all ideas of certain types of math that a lot of people can't get, while I myself could never actually do the details, formulas, etc that the math geniuses can actually do.
Just to make sure you were understanding what I was saying bc maybe you would understand:
I basically looked at how large, very large, extremely large numbers are named:
Millions, Billions, Trillions >
Octillion is 5 levels above it (trillions).
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)He will probably die before he would be sentenced. Any state cases can be put off and delayed almost indefinitely.
If you're waiting for Trump to go to prison, you're probably wasting your time and hope.
So, I'm about a 2.
kpete
(72,902 posts)I just turned 69 a few days ago, and the years (decades) have taught me to have very low expectations when it comes to equality of justice.
They will ALL get off -BUT they will be miserable once the lights are turned off.
I do think donald will die from his deflated ego. He will still have on his hat and red tie and take his "victory" map with him to his grave.
I will probably never visit Florida again, but if I do have the opportunity - I will dance on his grave.
To a happier new year,
kp
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)and I would love to join you in that dance....and yes, to a happier new year for certain, kp. Better days ahead...
Bettie
(19,704 posts)because if he is not prosecuted and imprisoned, it tells the next fascist that it is A-OK to do worse.
Letting this crap go is why he was able to come to power. It is why Republicans are fucking us over every day.
Mike Niendorff
(3,650 posts)Anything short of prosecution and prison is unacceptable.
Failing to do this with previous Republican corruption is what got us where we are now.
Failing to do it with Trump will guarantee that the country falls next time.
MDN
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)To say otherwise is to be have some certainty that hes committed a crime that likely to come with jail time if convicted. Im not prepared to say that. Im certainly not going to let anger and emotion drive my opinion.
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)baring that, I want him to stroke out so nothing works but his eyes and ears but can't speak and have him have to watch while the woman he lusts over (Ivanka) changes his shitty diapers and bitches about it ever time
I want him to suffer in the worst possible ways day after day after day after day for the rest of his life
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)is as good as jail for me.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,198 posts)🔟, 🕙, 👐, 10!
Vivienne235729
(3,748 posts)We need to see that NO MAN (or woman) is above the law. I think it is critical in moving forward as a democracy.