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reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:35 PM Dec 2020

What is a maroon?

Bugs Bunny often quips "what a maroon", taken to be his idiosyncratic way of saying "moron". He is sometimes quoted on DU.

The word, however, refers to "a fugitive black slave of the West Indies and Guiana in the 17th and 18th centuries; also a descendant of such a slave."; “runaway black slave,” “wild runaway slave,” “the beast who cannot be tamed,” or “living on mountaintops.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/maroon-community
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/maroon#:~:text=1%20%3A%20a%20person%20who%20is,Sentences%20Learn%20More%20about%20maroon

Like a lot of cartoons of a certain age, the humor of bugs is sometimes crude and racist, even if a bit obscure.

119 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What is a maroon? (Original Post) reACTIONary Dec 2020 OP
But is that how the word was known/used in the mid-20th Century? Sanity Claws Dec 2020 #1
I don't know, but... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #5
You may be thinking of "moran" Towlie Dec 2020 #2
Nope. Maroon... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #8
Just another word for moron (i.e. idiot) tinrobot Dec 2020 #73
Don't know about maroons SCantiGOP Dec 2020 #3
As far as I'm concerned a maroon is a MORON as used in the 20/21 century Raine Dec 2020 #4
He was mispronouncing the word "moron." The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2020 #6
That may be, but... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Hekate Dec 2020 #47
+1 2naSalit Dec 2020 #15
Agree nt Raine Dec 2020 #19
I think someone is bored tonight Hekate Dec 2020 #49
Yes, Quite obviously. cwydro Dec 2020 #64
One Of The Earliest Professional Football Teams Was Called The Pottsville Maroons ChoppinBroccoli Dec 2020 #7
That's all it was -- the team's colors. This is being waaaayyy over thought. Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #57
It is very common in English for one word LuvNewcastle Dec 2020 #9
I'm not so sure ... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #12
Yeah, those were some real wordsmiths. LuvNewcastle Dec 2020 #17
I, for one, do think they were real wordsmiths... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author LuvNewcastle Dec 2020 #30
agree; there is no reason to automatically assign treestar Dec 2020 #79
Employing Occam's Razor... Cirque du So-What Dec 2020 #10
There are much more concrete examples.... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #14
That's just, like, your opinion, man Cirque du So-What Dec 2020 #16
Correct. That is my opinion... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #21
Occam's Razor again... Cirque du So-What Dec 2020 #31
He wouldn't be calling him a "runaway slave", he would be... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #34
You know what? Cirque du So-What Dec 2020 #43
Sorry for being so argumentative; you are correct... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #61
"I certainly didn't think it would start such a contentious discussion." cwydro Dec 2020 #67
I'm actually very surprised that Bugs is such... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #70
Oh my. cwydro Dec 2020 #74
I don't see any fierce defenses in place... LanternWaste Dec 2020 #80
Yes, I suppose this assessment assumes.. reACTIONary Dec 2020 #81
Presumes, not assumes... "well, we are all human." LanternWaste Dec 2020 #97
My hypothesis is based on... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #107
"The character Bugs Bunny is prone to malapropisms." SMC22307 Dec 2020 #108
a maroon is the mascot of Austin HS katusha Dec 2020 #13
In that case it refers to the color BainsBane Dec 2020 #20
a fugitive slave BainsBane Dec 2020 #18
seriously? This is what you are worried about? Takket Dec 2020 #22
I'm not very worried about it... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #26
Obviously, Bugs Bunny needs to be expurgated and Mel Blanc reviled. Sneederbunk Dec 2020 #24
I, for one, am a great admirer ... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #29
In Bug's context it's always a sucker or a fool - nothing about slavery lame54 Dec 2020 #25
I take it to be... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #40
What specifically leads you to "take it to be" a racial slur other than "a hunch?" LanternWaste Dec 2020 #98
A stretch I think... Happy Hoosier Dec 2020 #27
Bugs Bunny literally does blackface, does "Mammy" imitations, minstrel show songs greenjar_01 Dec 2020 #28
I think you are spot on... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #32
So you then looked into it, eh? What relevant and objective information came up LanternWaste Dec 2020 #99
I utterly reject your hypothesis. MicaelS Dec 2020 #33
I am definitly not trolling... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #36
+100 Celerity Dec 2020 #87
I do believe you are correct. LanternWaste Dec 2020 #101
A lot of the old Looney Tunes use language which is now really shunned... Rightly. RockRaven Dec 2020 #35
Thanks for your observations... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #37
Deliberately Flatbush, according to Mel Blanc. n/t Greybnk48 Dec 2020 #39
Thanks, I didn't know... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #41
Nope, nope, nope. Bullshit. A "maroon" is a dope, an idiot. Greybnk48 Dec 2020 #38
It is the word for a fugitive slave BainsBane Dec 2020 #44
It's Bugs Bunny speak for "moron". COLGATE4 Dec 2020 #42
This is the right answer. Mc Mike Dec 2020 #59
He also calls Fud, the mighty hunter, a Nimrod... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #62
Maybe the writer read the Bible, or at least made it to the Nimrod reference in... SMC22307 Dec 2020 #109
Given what I know about bible thumpers.... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #110
One of the most fun things I ever did was attend Seattle Symphony nolabear Dec 2020 #114
Good times! Even better than... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #115
+100000000000000000000000000000000 x 2 AmyStrange Dec 2020 #60
Absolutely, 100% this. Greybnk48 Dec 2020 #92
Where do they get this nonsense from???? COLGATE4 Dec 2020 #93
How about "MAGAroon"? Zorro Dec 2020 #45
My first thought, maybe a little off Tbear Dec 2020 #46
I believe the fancy word for that method in comedy is malapropisms..... KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2020 #48
malapropisms are when you use a correctly pronounced word but in the wrong context nt Celerity Dec 2020 #51
Thanks. Is there a word to describe the opposite? KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2020 #52
wilful mispronunciation (a hateful example is what the Rethugs do with Kamala Harris's name) Celerity Dec 2020 #55
Stump speech monologs... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #69
Thanks. TigressDem Dec 2020 #50
I'm not so sure that skinhead was right. Mister Ed Dec 2020 #58
At any rate, if someone takes an insult to heart when I meant no harm, I'd rather know. TigressDem Dec 2020 #83
2 points. Celerity Dec 2020 #53
Malise can explain better, I know this word from time in Jamaica... winstars Dec 2020 #54
I truly doubt there was any racist connotation. nt Progressive Jones Dec 2020 #56
Perhaps not. It would not be without precedent, however. nt reACTIONary Dec 2020 #63
Is anyone arguing it would be without precedent? LanternWaste Dec 2020 #103
I never associated the term "maroon" with racism until reading this thread. Consider this ... Earthshine2 Dec 2020 #65
Further background Celerity Dec 2020 #88
It's actually very simple: a maroon is a castaway or escapee from a ship nuxvomica Dec 2020 #66
Sorry but this is absurd and many have explained why to you repeatedly. honest.abe Dec 2020 #68
Absurdity is part of Bugs' appeal. Go with it. nt reACTIONary Dec 2020 #71
Here's another one to investigate: "ignoranimus" honest.abe Dec 2020 #76
I'm going to... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #89
.. honest.abe Dec 2020 #90
TOS, Brother, comment with care. nt. reACTIONary Dec 2020 #91
How so Brother?? honest.abe Dec 2020 #94
It was appropriate for the discussion, PatSeg Dec 2020 #96
I guess it wasn't directed at you. I have a different perspective. nt reACTIONary Dec 2020 #117
I didn't take it as directed at anyone PatSeg Dec 2020 #118
Ten bucks says you fail to see the irony in your having said that. nt, Part II LanternWaste Dec 2020 #104
Please explain. nt. reACTIONary Dec 2020 #112
Is Bugs goofing on 'Ta-ra-ra Boom-de-ay' a no-no, too? (n/t) SMC22307 Dec 2020 #111
Of course not.... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #113
+100 Celerity Dec 2020 #72
It's a racist term and one that is easily deniable, making it perfect for use in a minstrel-y WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2020 #75
It's not a racist term per se at all, & the Bugs Bunny usage has nothing to do with maroons in terms Celerity Dec 2020 #84
No what it really is, is shit-stirring. n/t MicaelS Dec 2020 #85
+100 Celerity Dec 2020 #86
Lol...nope. Iggo Dec 2020 #77
It can mean both things treestar Dec 2020 #78
... AmericanCanuck Dec 2020 #82
I'll go you one better COLGATE4 Dec 2020 #95
The Maroons of Jamaica malaise Dec 2020 #100
I am so glad someone finally brought this up. It is way more important than the stimulus package. marie999 Dec 2020 #102
It's a color to me and also a deliberate cartoon word meaning "moron." CTyankee Dec 2020 #105
Not Harvard... Chicago... reACTIONary Dec 2020 #116
Funny, I always think of Harvard's "crimson" as being maroon colored. CTyankee Dec 2020 #119
For me it's my High School mascot Texasgal Dec 2020 #106

Sanity Claws

(21,846 posts)
1. But is that how the word was known/used in the mid-20th Century?
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:39 PM
Dec 2020

I love those old cartoons but I doubt that the writers of Bugs Bunny knew how the word was used in the 17th and 18th century.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
5. I don't know, but...
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:44 PM
Dec 2020

... the writers of those cartoons were much more knowledgeable, literate and sophisticated than is sometimes supposed.

In any case, this is an FYI for DUers, not an attempt to cancel Bugs.

Towlie

(5,324 posts)
2. You may be thinking of "moran"
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:40 PM
Dec 2020

 
?

It's a reference to this:



It was even featured in This Modern World by Tom Tomorrow.

tinrobot

(10,893 posts)
73. Just another word for moron (i.e. idiot)
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 10:48 AM
Dec 2020

I suspect someone read it/wrote it wrong, the director thought it was funny and kept it.

Animators tend to do that. They're rather juvenile.

(source: am animator)

SCantiGOP

(13,869 posts)
3. Don't know about maroons
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:43 PM
Dec 2020

But I’ve read that Daffy Duck started as a black caricature, but they liked the character so they toned it down.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
4. As far as I'm concerned a maroon is a MORON as used in the 20/21 century
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:43 PM
Dec 2020

not the 17/18 ... language evolves over time.

Response to reACTIONary (Reply #11)

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,784 posts)
7. One Of The Earliest Professional Football Teams Was Called The Pottsville Maroons
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:46 PM
Dec 2020

That was the late 1800s, early 1900s. Not sure if that just referred to the colors they wore or if it actually meant something more.

Progressive Jones

(6,011 posts)
57. That's all it was -- the team's colors. This is being waaaayyy over thought.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 04:18 AM
Dec 2020

I played on a youth hockey team with that name. Our sweaters were maroon and white.

LuvNewcastle

(16,844 posts)
9. It is very common in English for one word
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:48 PM
Dec 2020

to have more than one meaning, often several. And even though they played a lot of Al Jolson music in those cartoons, I'm pretty sure they didn't have Bugs saying "maroon" as a reference to runaway slaves.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
12. I'm not so sure ...
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:53 PM
Dec 2020

... you may be right. I think the writers of bugs were a lot more into word play with slang and accents and knew what they were doing. Just my hunch.

LuvNewcastle

(16,844 posts)
17. Yeah, those were some real wordsmiths.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:01 AM
Dec 2020

They were studying the OED on their breaks while they did all of those cartoons the old, hard way. They had plenty of extra time for the study of obscure definitions of common words.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
23. I, for one, do think they were real wordsmiths...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:09 AM
Dec 2020

... and they were not writing for children. The cartoons played along side the serious movies of the time, and were written for a wide audience.

Response to reACTIONary (Reply #23)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
79. agree; there is no reason to automatically assign
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:10 PM
Dec 2020

racism as a motive for the writer.

At least look into it rather than assuming.

Cirque du So-What

(25,927 posts)
10. Employing Occam's Razor...
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:50 PM
Dec 2020

The cartoon writers didn’t even know this definition of the word, which had slipped into obscurity 300 years earlier. There are more concrete examples of racism in cartoons of that era. This is just overreach.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
14. There are much more concrete examples....
Sun Dec 27, 2020, 11:56 PM
Dec 2020

... but I think the creators of Bugs were far more knowledgeable about slang, word origins and word play than they are given credit for.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
21. Correct. That is my opinion...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:04 AM
Dec 2020

... I'll leave out the "just".

I think some research into the word's usage over time is feasible, but given the other meanings of "marron" it wouldn't be straightforward.

Cirque du So-What

(25,927 posts)
31. Occam's Razor again...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:28 AM
Dec 2020

The character Bugs Bunny is prone to malapropisms. ‘Maroon’ is merely a mispronunciation of ‘moron.’ Is that the simplest explanation, or did writers employ an archaic word to have Bugs Bunny insult, say, Elmer Fudd by calling him - nonsensically, mind you - a runaway slave?

Occam’s Razor. It slices. It dices. It cuts codswollop to shreds.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
34. He wouldn't be calling him a "runaway slave", he would be...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:36 AM
Dec 2020

... insulting him with a racial slur, and in a way that would be playing with and punning on Bugs' Brooklyn accent.

Cirque du So-What

(25,927 posts)
43. You know what?
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:53 AM
Dec 2020

Arguing this is a huge waste of my time. Bye. If it makes you feel better, I concede that yours is the superior intellect.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
61. Sorry for being so argumentative; you are correct...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:09 AM
Dec 2020

... that, in the absence of further evidence one way or the other, Occom's razor is operative. It's also true that this is sort of a trivial pursuit on my part. I certainly didn't think it would start such a contentious discussion.

For my part, I'll look into it further and see if I can substantiate my speculation.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
70. I'm actually very surprised that Bugs is such...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 09:21 AM
Dec 2020

... a icon of veneration that he would be so fiercely defended and that folks would be so offended and put off by any criticism of his character. Everyone knows those old cartoons contained a lot of racist humor, and it shouldn't be surprising or contentious.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
80. I don't see any fierce defenses in place...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 06:28 PM
Dec 2020

Nor do I see offence taken ( you can of course, point out these specific responses of indignation, yes?).

What I do see is the merit of your simple hypothesis, itself predicated only a "hunch" and a dated homonym, being called into question.

Certainly no one is arguing older animated shorts didn't contain racism; yet the responsibility lies on you to support, with evidence, your own premise of racism of this particular. That's basic logic 101 and really... "it shouldn't be surprising or contentious."

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
81. Yes, I suppose this assessment assumes..
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 06:59 PM
Dec 2020

... that I am right and they are being defensive. Well, we are all human... All too human.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
97. Presumes, not assumes... "well, we are all human."
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 06:20 PM
Dec 2020

I'm simply wondering if your entire hypothesis is predicated on a hunch, or if you in fact, have evidence.

If not, it's really more a wild guess advertising our own biases more than it is anything else... which is of course, "all too human" as well.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
107. My hypothesis is based on...
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 07:08 PM
Dec 2020

... looking the word "maroon" up int the dictionary and discovering that it is a racial insult used to denigrate others, which fits the context in which it is used very well.

The reason that I took time to look it up is that Bugs is well known for using humorous malapropisms. The true meaning of the work being misappropriated is often key to the humor and gives it an extra dimension. So I looked it up. That it turned out to be a racist insult didn't surprise me too much because the early Bugs Bunny cartoons, in fact all early cartoons, are infamous for their raw, crude, racial insensitivity.

I'm not the only one to make these observations - I found this on Daily Kos:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/14/1818623/-The-Real-Maroons-and-then-there-was-Bugs-Bunny-BLM

Humor based on malapropisms is rooted in racist minstrel shows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stump_speech_(minstrelsy)

That carried over into vaudeville and then into cartoons. And eventually ended up, occasionally and innocently, on DU. I thought others would want to be aware.

Question: What biases do you believe might motivate my concern?

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
108. "The character Bugs Bunny is prone to malapropisms."
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 07:39 PM
Dec 2020

Conversation over.

(This thread is giving me a conclusion of the brain!)

BainsBane

(53,029 posts)
18. a fugitive slave
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:02 AM
Dec 2020

a Maroon community is a settlement where many fugitive slaves lived. In Brazil they were called Quilombos. Maybe Bugs is just a racist.

Takket

(21,555 posts)
22. seriously? This is what you are worried about?
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:07 AM
Dec 2020

We have enough racism burning like wildfire through our country right now to deal with. We should be focused on that, not trying to piece together whether an 80 year old cartoon character was trying to superstitiously slip a racist term into a cartoon.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
26. I'm not very worried about it...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:11 AM
Dec 2020

... it's something I discovered and thought others would like to be aware of.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
98. What specifically leads you to "take it to be" a racial slur other than "a hunch?"
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 06:23 PM
Dec 2020

Do you apply this thought process to all homonyms or merely this one? If merely this one, what then is the precise and relevant difference with this particular homonym?

Happy Hoosier

(7,285 posts)
27. A stretch I think...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:15 AM
Dec 2020

By far the more common 17/18 century use of the word was a referenced to someone who had been marooned. And the association with escaped slaves stems from that definition (sometime survivors of slaver shipwrecks survived and made it to a nearby island.

I really REALLY doubt the word was used in that context bu bugs.... not that those old cartoons couldn’t be racist, just that I do not think that is the context here.

 

greenjar_01

(6,477 posts)
28. Bugs Bunny literally does blackface, does "Mammy" imitations, minstrel show songs
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:15 AM
Dec 2020

and other racist shit.

But your take on maroon is a real stretch. Maroon wasn't really that obscure. Many people would know the other meaning, including probably the writers of these episodes. But that's not really probative, and it's unclear what you're saying in any case. We know who wrote the "maroon" episodes, and we also know what characters Bugs was referring to as "maroons." So, I mean, you're getting pushback here because your whole point is rather muddled and silly, especially when there's obvious racist shit in Bugs Bunny, so you don't have to go trawling around for silly and dubious interpretations. Bugs is literally in blackface singing "is you is or is you ain't mah baby?" You're worried about "maroon," which was much more the writers goofing on working class New York accents? Get some perspective.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
32. I think you are spot on...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:28 AM
Dec 2020

... about the writers goofing around with Bugs' working class Brooklyn accent. That's exactly what I think they were doing. And punning with a racial slur.

FYI, I'm not in a dither about it. It's something I was curious about and looked into, and I thought others might be interested in.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
99. So you then looked into it, eh? What relevant and objective information came up
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 06:24 PM
Dec 2020

leading you to deny its status as a mere homonym?

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
33. I utterly reject your hypothesis.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:33 AM
Dec 2020

Mine is the creators were just his way of saying moron. Unless you have concrete proof, as in an article quoting on of the creators during their lifetime, I think you are engaging in trolling.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
36. I am definitly not trolling...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:40 AM
Dec 2020

... That is not the way I roll. But I am definitely being speculative. I was curious about the expression and looked into it a bit. I thought others might be interested.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
101. I do believe you are correct.
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 06:31 PM
Dec 2020

Poster predicated his entire hypothesis on the inaccurate usage of a particular homonym and never allowed us any additional evidence to support it as such,

Further, poster implies (again, lacking any evidence) that people are defensive about this, when all we can see are responses disagreeing with his poorly supported hypothesis.

Additionally, poster tells us on more than one occasion that he is merely curious, yet fails to provide any meaningful rational for his lack of satisfying that same curiosity through valid source material.

RockRaven

(14,958 posts)
35. A lot of the old Looney Tunes use language which is now really shunned... Rightly.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:37 AM
Dec 2020

I recall there's a Bugs Bunny cartoon which uses "cotton picking" as a substitute for what might otherwise be a curse word (or at minimum a derogatory adjective) and it went right over my head as a kid. It was just a nonsense phrase to child-me.

As for maroon, I have no reason to grant the cartoonists the benefit of the doubt... So here's why it could be intentional: AFAIK, the word "nimrod" entered the US lexicon as an insult akin to idiot because Bugs referred to Elmer Fudd as "Nimrod" in an early cartoon. My interpretation is that the cartoonists inserted that as a joke for the adults. It was a sarcastic insult (in the Bible Nimrod is called "a mighty hunter before the Lord" ), but kids just knew Bugs was insulting Fudd, who is kind of dumb, so it became a childish insult for the dumb. But mid 20th century Americans were pretty steeped in religion, and the reference in question is in the Book of Genesis, so if they'd read just a bit of the bible they would get the joke. So maybe the maroon thing is also a double duty adult-kid line.

But I don't see "maroon" making sense as a similarly slightly esoteric reference. It seems too obscure, at that time, with that intended audience (did they even know about maroons' part in history?). Middle America in the mid 20th century had huge historical blind spots...

Seems to me, absent any quotes from the creators on the subject, that an intentionally idiosyncratic pronunciation (which itself is an ironical joke, as Bugs is mispronouncing an intelligence-based insult) is somewhat more likely.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
37. Thanks for your observations...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:44 AM
Dec 2020

... one thing that I would add is that the idiosyncratic pronunciation may originate with Bugs' Brooklyn accent.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
41. Thanks, I didn't know...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:49 AM
Dec 2020

.... it to be so specific. I had heard it was Brooklyn and it sounded that way to me.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
59. This is the right answer.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 07:55 AM
Dec 2020

You can tell because he also calls the same person an 'embezzle', instead of imbecile.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
62. He also calls Fud, the mighty hunter, a Nimrod...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:25 AM
Dec 2020

... These expressions gain some of their humor from being referential to actual words, not just mispronunciations. As simple mispronunciations they fall flat. And 'Nimrod' shows that the cartoonists were a bit more sophisticated and aware then they get credit for.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
109. Maybe the writer read the Bible, or at least made it to the Nimrod reference in...
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 07:51 PM
Dec 2020

the Book of Genesis. Is reading the Bible 'sophisticated'?

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
110. Given what I know about bible thumpers....
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 08:13 PM
Dec 2020

.. Yes.

On a more serious note, I did get the chance to meet Chuck Jones, as part of a Tex Avery retrospective. Those guys knew what they were doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Jones

They even had a thing for opera.


What's Opera, Doc?

It has been widely praised by many in the animation industry as the greatest animated cartoon that Warner Bros. ever released, and has been ranked as such in the top 50 animated cartoons of all time. In 1992, the Library of Congress deemed it "culturally, historically or aesthetically significant", and selected it for preservation in the National Film Registry, the first cartoon to receive such honors.

nolabear

(41,959 posts)
114. One of the most fun things I ever did was attend Seattle Symphony
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 10:17 PM
Dec 2020

when they performed along with several operatic Looney Tunes cartoons. We even wore our Viking helmets. 😄

 

AmyStrange

(7,989 posts)
60. +100000000000000000000000000000000 x 2
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:08 AM
Dec 2020

-

I vote for this one too.

To me it does sound like he's saying moroon, and not maroon, but what do I know, I'm a maroon times two.
==========

Greybnk48

(10,167 posts)
92. Absolutely, 100% this.
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 02:59 PM
Dec 2020

The PC crowd trying to say that Mel Blanc meant something racist are definitely "maroons."

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
93. Where do they get this nonsense from????
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 03:29 PM
Dec 2020

(And we bitch about all the Qanon and other crazy Trumpites who dream up these fantasy connections....)

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,489 posts)
48. I believe the fancy word for that method in comedy is malapropisms.....
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 01:35 AM
Dec 2020

as in by comedian Norm Crosby (who passed away this November, BTW). Always enjoyed him on the Tonight Show in the Carson days.

Loved Bugs Bunny as a kid, too!

KY

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,489 posts)
52. Thanks. Is there a word to describe the opposite?
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 03:21 AM
Dec 2020

That is, using a word in the correct context but intentionally misspelled and/or mispronounced?

Maybe that's just bad spelling and poor grammar......

KY

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
69. Stump speech monologs...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 09:14 AM
Dec 2020
"Stand-up comedy in the United States got its start from monologists performing stump-speech monologues from within the minstrel shows of the early 19th century."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-up_comedy#History


A typical stump speech consisted of malapropisms (the substitution of a word for a word with a similar sound), nonsense sentences, and puns delivered in a parodied version of Black Vernacular English.... The stump speech was a precursor to modern stand-up comedy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stump_speech_(minstrelsy)

TigressDem

(5,125 posts)
50. Thanks.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 02:39 AM
Dec 2020

It is sometimes weird the terms that are loaded with more than people know.

I never knew "jungle bunny" was a derogatory term toward blacks, until someone explained it. Had no idea it had anything to do with black people at all.

Didn't realize that "jerry rig" was a term that put down Nazi Germany... the Gerry's ran out of supplies and used anything and everything to get the job done. I always thought it was a proud term to describe someone who could McGiver stuff until a skin head I worked with got upset about it. Okie Dokie.

Mister Ed

(5,928 posts)
58. I'm not so sure that skinhead was right.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 06:19 AM
Dec 2020

I've always believed that "jerry rigged" was an alternate pronunciation of "jury-rigged", the nautical term describing improvised masts, spars, or rigging.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/jury-rigged
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/jury%20mast

It might be that your skinhead co-worker knew something I don't, or it might be that he was just an oversensitive snowflake, as Neo-Nazis tend to be.

TigressDem

(5,125 posts)
83. At any rate, if someone takes an insult to heart when I meant no harm, I'd rather know.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 11:42 PM
Dec 2020

I'm not going to be overly PC but the guy was really upset and I've been in customer service for years. So talking people off ledges is kinda my thing.

And before McGiver, jerry rigging probably wasn't AS cool.


lol


Celerity

(43,299 posts)
53. 2 points.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 03:22 AM
Dec 2020

1. Maroon as used by Bugs is a simple comic mispronunciation, one of many. Here is an example where he mispronounces two things. It is not some hidden racial slur.



2. Maroon, in terms of escaped slaves who then lived free outside of the colonial society is not at all obscure if you are familiar with West Indian culture (I am half Bajan, my mum is from Barbados), especially Jamaican. Nanny of the Maroons is one of the Jamaican national heroes and is on one of their paper monetary bills. There is also a village called Maroon Town in Jamaica. There were also Maroon communities throughout the southern US, many well in the 19th century.

NANNY OF THE MAROONS - A JAMAICAN NATIONAL HERO

https://svarthistoria.com/blog/nanny-of-the-maroons-en-jamaicansk-nationalhjlte








Earthshine2

(3,992 posts)
65. I never associated the term "maroon" with racism until reading this thread. Consider this ...
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:41 AM
Dec 2020

The word "octoroon" was used in former times to describe a person who is 1/8 black and 7/8 presumably white.

The word "quadroon" was used to describe a person who is 1/4 black. (A parent of an octoroon.)

The term "maroon" may have root-word commonality. Someone who is separated and isolated.

I think Bugs Bunny (a childhood and adult favorite) was using a censor-friendly version of "moron" by calling Elmer Fudd a "maroon."


Curiously, I recently saw the movie "Invitation to a Gunfighter" starring Yul Brenner. In the movie, which takes place right after the civil war, the gunslinger hero described himself as a "quadroon." His skin tone was intentionally made quite reddish (maroon?) from makeup. Everyone else was very white.

Celerity

(43,299 posts)
88. Further background
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 01:34 AM
Dec 2020

Of plaçage, mariages de la main gauche and quadroon balls.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pla%C3%A7age




Potential placées were sometimes even shipped to France for finishing school and formal education before they were contractually engaged. The overall price for the elite of the elite at times went into the millions of dollars (in today's money). I went to uni in London (where I grew up) with a girl originally from New Orleans descended on both sides of her family from placées. Went with her on a bank holiday trip (that we simply extended) back to New Orleans. Extraordinary oral and physically documented family history. Her gran on her mum's side (lived in a wonderful house in the Garden District) was a walking encyclopaedia.


nuxvomica

(12,421 posts)
66. It's actually very simple: a maroon is a castaway or escapee from a ship
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:44 AM
Dec 2020

The slave reference referred to slaves who escaped their ships, probably swimming to the nearest island, where they were "marooned". The fundamental meaning refers to people lost at sea, probably by falling overboard or ship sinking, that managed to find dry land. So a "maroon" is somebody who is lost but manages to survive and the derogatory extension is someone who is clueless, rudderless, figuratively "lost at sea".

honest.abe

(8,675 posts)
68. Sorry but this is absurd and many have explained why to you repeatedly.
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 08:59 AM
Dec 2020

Yet you continue to insist on your ridiculous theory. You are nearing the level of the true meaning of the word Bugs was mispronouncing.

PatSeg

(47,397 posts)
118. I didn't take it as directed at anyone
Wed Dec 30, 2020, 12:55 AM
Dec 2020

More as an example of Bugs Bunny using the word Maroon in a cartoon.

reACTIONary

(5,770 posts)
113. Of course not....
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 10:09 PM
Dec 2020

... if it were to turn out that Bugs' "maroon" quip is a racist joke, would you consider it a 'no-no'?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,323 posts)
75. It's a racist term and one that is easily deniable, making it perfect for use in a minstrel-y
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 10:53 AM
Dec 2020

cartoon such as Bugs Bunny.

Celerity

(43,299 posts)
84. It's not a racist term per se at all, & the Bugs Bunny usage has nothing to do with maroons in terms
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 12:28 AM
Dec 2020

of escaped slaves living outside of the slavers' societies. The OP is simply wrong.

I already showed this here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14769663

treestar

(82,383 posts)
78. It can mean both things
Mon Dec 28, 2020, 12:09 PM
Dec 2020

The writer of Bugs Bunny may have thought it was just an idiosyncratic pronunciation.

Many English words have separate, distinct meanings with different origins.

CTyankee

(63,901 posts)
105. It's a color to me and also a deliberate cartoon word meaning "moron."
Tue Dec 29, 2020, 06:42 PM
Dec 2020

Also, it means to be on an island, abandoned.

Bugs Bunny is the only "person" who used the term to mean "moron." but I don't know that because I didn't grow up in NYC.

I think Harvard would call it's color maroon. and here's a handy chart for ya:https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Harvard%27s+%22colors%22

CTyankee

(63,901 posts)
119. Funny, I always think of Harvard's "crimson" as being maroon colored.
Wed Dec 30, 2020, 01:36 PM
Dec 2020

My first husband had gone to Harvard and had more "stuff" from its college shop than you could believe. He was a real idiot about having gone to Harvard.

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