What can honestly be said to people that ignore COVID-19 restrictions?

[Joe Nation]

I have these relatives that are educated, smart professionals and follow the news very closely especially when it comes to the pandemic. They know the risks. They know the dangers. They know their own potential for dying of this virus based on their comorbidities which are Type-1 diabetes, cancer survivor, and several other autoimmune issues. They have all had multiple negative COVID tests in the last year. They have one teenage child. My wife and I are the only relatives capable of raising their child in the event they both die. We are named as the child's guardians in their wills.

Okay, here is the issue... They are on their third vacation since the pandemic began. They've traveled to several states during these vacations, visited other relatives, and spent a lot of time in large metropolitan areas. They go to malls, beaches, water parks, and go out to eat constantly. They believe that they are acting in a safe and responsible manner and that we are too cautious.

My greatest fear, as my wife and I are about to retire, is that we will spend the first decade of our retirement raising their orphaned child. And there is nothing I can say to them that they will hear. It is useless to reason with them and I don't want to threaten them with refusing to be guardians because we are literally the only option they have and it isn't their child's fault that they are behaving this way. Heck, the kid is often used as the excuse for the vacation trips.

What would you say to these relative if they were yours? What can be said that they would even listen to? They already think that they are smarter than everyone else. I just hate the trajectory this could be headed towards.

[marybourg]

1. I would say to them exactly what you said to us in your third paragraph.

[Blues Heron]

2. I would tell them that they'll be fine until suddenly they're not

It all seems like nothing while your NOT getting sick. Then BOOM down for the count, maybe permanently, maybe unknown long term damage. For a water park visit? They seem reckless.

[samplegirl]

3. Stay the hell home or

take us off as legal guardians.

[Grey5]

4. There is nothing you can say.

Even if you said something they wouldn't hear you.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. COVID will do the talking

[thucythucy]

6. Ask them to imagine a scale.

On the one side place the inconvenience of upping their precautions until they are able to receive the proper vaccinations.

On the other side place the deep and lifelong grief, anguish, anxiety and probably also the anger their child will feel should either or both of them die.

I was a teenager when I lost my mother to cancer, I can attest to the fact that this loss has been a lifelong trauma.

In their case it seems to me their child will have to wonder--did they not love me enough to take the necessary precautions? Did they care so little for my emotional well-being that they weren't willing to accept these relatively trivial and time-limited inconveniences to insure they were there for me as I entered adulthood?

Taking these risks is basically telling their child they don't give a fuck about their role as parents. That's perhaps too blunt a way to say it, but it's how I read their behavior from what you describe in your post.

And that's not even considering the risk they are taking of infecting the child directly.

That would be the approach I'd try.

I'm hoping this might be helpful. Best wishes as you continue to deal with this painful situation.

[Ms. Toad]

7. Tell them to follow the guidelines -

or find other arrangements for their child. You're happy to care for their child in the even of an unexpected death, but that you won't make it emotionally easy and guilt-free to commit suicide by Russian Roulette with COVID.

[lettucebe]

8. It doesn't sound like they really care about their child's welfare

so trying to use the child to reach them isn't likely to work. Frankly they are spoiled and selfish, but you can't lead with that either. It's too bad. We could be having a much better time of it in our country if only we didn't have so many self-absorbed people so busy enjoying themselves they don't notice what's happening around them. This is my gut reaction because I'm getting peeved.

A more reasoned reaction might be to ask them to write a letter to their son, to be opened only in the case of their death, which explains why they felt so strongly that they did not need to follow guidelines and were willing to take the risk. Ask them to say goodbye in the letter, as often goodbyes are not possible, and also to help explain their reasoning so he would have that, at the very least, in the case of their early demise. This is simply a way to tell them they are being stupid without actually using the words, and just giving them the idea forces them to at least think about it, even if only for a nanosecond.

It could be they've decided they are more likely to catch it and die, so therefore, why miss out on the fun? Again, selfish and childish but certainly a state-of-mind I could see a person having. Not wanting to miss out is a great motivator.

Does their son go with them or are these couples only trips? If he does go with them, what I said above about not wanting to miss out may very well be the case -- they don't want to risk going nowhere, having no memories and dying anyway. It's a thought (a dark one tho).

[Joe Nation]

13. The letter sounds like something I could ask for without alienating them completely

This is a very good suggestion. As this is my wife's sibling, I'll ask her to have the conversation with her sibling. She is far more diplomatic than I am anyway. Good call. Thanks

[OneGrassRoot]

18. That is a good idea. I wish there were a way to have such people...

also address why they were willing to put so many other people at risk, not only themselves.

[3catwoman3]

9. Paragraph 4 in post #6 and...

...everything in post #8.

If asking them to write a goodbye letter to their son does not touch their hearts, then they are unreachable.

I’ve been a pediatric nurse practitioner since 1976. I have seen enough crappy parents to make me believe that parenthood should require a license.

[struggle4progress]

10. Don't stand so close to me

[JI7]

11. Many people in the US think they are "special" . I think it's similar to those who think they are in

top 10 percent of income earners. There was some study done and this may have been from the 90s or early 2000s which showed a large percentage of people thinking they were in some top percentage of income earners when they were nothing close to it.

This was around the time when the economy was doing well .

Many people think if they are able to buy large TVs and other electronics and go out to eat and be able to get credit to buy more shit that they are wealthy.

Comfortably well off is not the same as wealthy.

So with Covid many people start to think those who get sick are the ones who are at fault because of their diet and weight issues or weak because of some health concerns. They think THEY are better than those. ANd themselves having dealt with health issues does not prevent this type of attitude because they feel like THEY were able to survive with that health condition unlike some others and it's because they are responsible and better than THOSE people.

This is just the attitude so many in the US have.

There really isn't much you can say to them other than the usual things . But they aren't going to listen.

[thucythucy]

17. This is spot on.

Philosopher Michael Lerner calls this the "just world theory" of how reality works. "Just" meaning that bad things only happen to "bad" people.

It's a way for people to deny the randomness of so much that happens in the world. To admit that we are all vulnerable to events and factors beyond our control is simply too unsettling for many if not most people to accept.

There are two sides to this same coin. You pointed out the one side, but there's a corollary as well:

If bad things only happen to "bad" people then I don't have to worry because I'm "good" (in this case not overweight, eat right, practice yoga, pray to the right god, or whatever). You're absolutely correct in your articulation of this aspect.

At the same time, the fact that I don't (at present) have cancer or Covid or live in a refugee camp or don't have MS or whatever must mean I'm a pretty good person--so kudos to me!

People with visible disabilities deal with this all the time. "If only you chanted this magic mantra, or were a vegan, or gave your heart to Jesus..." you'd be able to ditch that wheelchair in spite of your spinal cord injury. And if the various remedies don't work (and of course they don't) it's only because you aren't praying hard enough, or cheat on the magic diet, or whatever. I know people with multiple sclerosis who have been told, after trying this or that snake oil cure, "It's because deep down you WANT to be sick."

Of course, this whole way of looking at life gets challenged when something bad happens to someone holding onto this belief. Sadly, what often happens is they go from blaming others and feeling all right about themselves, to blaming themselves and diving headlong into self loathing and depression.

As I said, I've seen first hand the damage this world view inflicts on people with visible disabilities.

It sucks big time.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. "Get the fuck outta here, you covidiot"

[moondust]

14. You could try asking them

if they've ever gone to the doctor. And if yes then did they follow the doctor's orders. And if yes then ask them why they did since they are now choosing to ignore doctors' orders.

IOW, some people may need to be "educated" that COVID is a health issue--not a political or "freedom" issue.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

15. Cite a little probability and statistics to them.

Simple: the longer they take risks and considering the vast amount we know on how this thing spreads, probability and statistics says their odds of catching the virus are constantly going against them.

It's like a person that habitually speeds in their car. Sooner or later, the odds will catch up with them and they'll be either arrested or involved in an accident. Long term statistics make that fact quite clear.

They really are playing with fire and setting a very bad example for others.......

[Raine]

16. Their kid is likely to contract covid and die too if they do

so maybe they should give that some thought!

[Johnny2X2X]

19. Exceptions

Seemingly everyone makes exceptions. I have some in my own family who are good liberal democrats, but they think that they can make exceptions. It's not easy to remain 100% compliant all the time. You find people justifying their exceptions with statements like:
"Oh, it's just this one time." or "Well, so and so tested positive, so we've been seeing our grandson, if he had it, we'd have alrady been exposed, so we'll keep letting them visit."

There's always an exception, a justification. And now that is compounded by the vaccine starting to get out there, people think we're nearing the end of this when we are nowhere near the end. Now is not the time to relax, I'd hate for my parents to have made it this long without getting it and then to get it weeks before they may be getting the vaccine.

[MineralMan]

20. There is probably nothing you could say that will change their minds.

That's been my experience. I simply avoid people who don't follow the simple, safe practices. Period.

My wife has a friend who constantly posts photos on Facebook of her standing maskless in groups of people. I finally convinced her that she should not see that friend in person until she gets both doses of the vaccine. She gets it. She doesn't like it, but agrees with me.