Questioning the unemployment and jobs data is complete idiocy.

[ProSense]

Reiterate: Questioning the unemployment and jobs data is complete idiocy.

If the President controlled the data, unemployment wouldn't have spiked before the 2010 election.

If the President controlleld the data, he wouldn't wait until a month before the election to manipulate it. A .03 percent drop for each month since 2009 could have led to a 6.8 unemploymnent rate. Romney would have been without a talking point for the last year.

Republicans are proving themselves to be childish, idiotic and petty.

Jack Welch: ‘No Evidence’ Of BLS Conspiracy, But I Stand By BLS Conspiracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021479700

The death of a talking point
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021476056

Chuck Schumer: GOP ‘Booing Any Positive Sign About The Economy’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021479530

Krugman: Democratic Derangement Syndrome
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021477198

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Never attribute to mere idiocy

those Republican actions that can be better explained as arising from general malevolence.

[porphyrian]

2. Aw, c'mon...you already knew they were childish, idiotic and petty. n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. Does anyone, for a moment, think if the numbers had gone in the other direction, we'd be having....

this conversation? Would they be attacking the BLS as politically motivated? I doubt it.

[Lasher]

4. They are cheering for our demise.

Not a winning position just a month before the election.

[ProSense]

5. It's bizarre.

OMG, the economy is improving!!! Boo!!! Boo!!!

Morons!

[ThoughtCriminal]

6. Gallup independently corroborates the drop

Gallup, which has its own unemployment measurement that’s similar, but not identical, to that of the feds has actually shown unemployment dropping to 7.9% in September.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_10/what_to_expect_from_the_septem040309.php




No help for talking to the no-nothings - they also think Gallup is part of the conspiracy.

[ProSense]

9. Evidently, the President controls Gallup.

Republicans are idiots!

[1-Old-Man]

7. The numbers would have been fine, nearing perfection, if the rate had gone up to 9%.

[ProSense]

11. "Sasquatch might as well have traipsed across the White House lawn..."

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sasquatch might as well have traipsed across the White House lawn Friday with a lost Warren Commission file on his way to the studio where NASA staged the moon landing.

- more -

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=162401868

[cleduc]

8. In the last quarter,

ADP reported 507,000 jobs added
BLS reported 437,000 jobs added

Are the Truthers suggesting ADP is in on it as well?

Month to month, we see a ADP vs BLS not match. But over more time, they get roughly close according to some reading I did.

Part of the bump today in the unemployment rate is due to July & August numbers being adjusted upward toward ADP's numbers - about 80,000 over those two months.

When the tax returns got evaluated, they also made an adjustment in late September:
http://www.examiner.com/article/after-further-review-386-000-more-jobs-were-actually-created-than-reported
adding 386,000 more jobs. I think people are commonly overlooking that impact on the unemployment numbers. That adjustment happens every year. Last year it took the numbers down 300,000+. It's a common order of magnitude of adjustment.

I'm no expert on this but these numbers seem certainly feasible.

Starting next month, retail employment is expected to add 40,000 jobs over last year because of increased consumer confidence. Hopefully, that translates to a good jobs report on Nov 2 - just before the election.

[ProSense]

10. ADP,

totally controlled by the President. He's omnipotent.

[GeorgeGist]

12. And while you're studying that reality

—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, ... We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

Karl Rove, 2004

[ProSense]

13. Rove is an idiot

Ask McCain-Palin.

[Ikonoklast]

20. Hey! That's *President* McCain to you!

Or....maybe not.

[MadHound]

14. No, it isn't.

Over the past sixty years the unemployment numbers have indeed been pinched, prodded and beaten into shape so as to serve some political purpose, namely getting a president reelected. Most notoriously, at least in my memory, was Reagan and the Boy Bush. Am I saying that Obama fudged the numbers, no. But it isn't complete idiocy to question whether or not they were.

[ProSense]

15. "Am I saying that Obama fudged the numbers, no."

"Am I saying that Obama fudged the numbers, no. But it isn't complete idiocy to question whether or not they were."

My bad! If it wasn't clear from the OP, the conspiracy theories are complete idiocy.

"Over the past sixty years the unemployment numbers have indeed been pinched, prodded and beaten into shape so as to serve some political purpose, namely getting a president reelected."

Do you know why, as the OP stated, the numbers weren't "pinched, prodded and beaten into shape" to arrive at the 6.8 number?

I mean, who would have noticed?

And, is Gallup in on this too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1480605

Who is Gallup trying to get elected?

[MadHound]

16. I think that you are misunderstanding me.

I'm not accusing Obama of doing anything to the numbers. What I am saying is that it isn't unreasonable to question whether or not the numbers were indeed massaged. They have been before, and they will be again. That is fact.

It is similar to various groups of people questioning whether or not the vote count is valid. The candidate in question might be squeaky clean in that regard, but it is understandable that certain groups of people would be suspicious of the vote count, given the fact that yes, the vote count has been fudged multiple times before.

It is these regular instances of fraud, cheating and manipulation that give rise to conspiracy theories, both on the right and the left. It is the general distrust of government by virtually everybody on the right, left or center, to one degree or another, that gives rise to conspiracy theories. In many ways, the years and decades of bad government has brought this distrust down upon the government itself, and this is the natural result.

[ProSense]

17. I understood, which is why

I said: If it wasn't clear from the OP, the conspiracy theories are complete idiocy.

...and asked:

Do you know why, as the OP stated, the numbers weren't "pinched, prodded and beaten into shape" to arrive at the 6.8 number?

I mean, who would have noticed?

And, is Gallup in on this too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1480605

Who is Gallup trying to get elected? I'd like to know, based on your current comment:

"It is similar to various groups of people questioning whether or not the vote count is valid. The candidate in question might be squeaky clean in that regard, but it is understandable that certain groups of people would be suspicious of the vote count, given the fact that yes, the vote count has been fudged multiple times before. "

[MadHound]

18. No, you aren't understanding, you are reading what I'm saying from a hostile, suspcious POV,

And misinterpreting everything I'm saying. You think that I'm trying to lay suspicion at Obama's feet, I'm not. OK, got that, I'm not blaming Obama, accusing Obama, hell, let's just leave Obama out of this, OK, because he really isn't germane to what I am trying to get across to you.

Which is, there has been proven, documented cases of presidents manipulating the employment data for their own political gain. This sort of manipulation breeds general distrust in any employment number that seems too good or bad to be true. That is why it is, at least, understandable to see these conspiracy theories spring up. Hell, we saw the same type of conspiracy theories spring up under Bush and other presidents as well.

Now do you get it?

[ProSense]

19. What?

No, you aren't understanding, you are reading what I'm saying from a hostile, suspcious POV,

And misinterpreting everything I'm saying. You think that I'm trying to lay suspicion at Obama's feet, I'm not.

I'm doing no such thing. I'm asking you a question based on your point.

So let me try again.

Which is, there has been proven, documented cases of presidents manipulating the employment data for their own political gain. This sort of manipulation breeds general distrust in any employment number that seems too good or bad to be true. That is why it is, at least, understandable to see these conspiracy theories spring up. Hell, we saw the same type of conspiracy theories spring up under Bush and other presidents as well.

Do you have a link to these "documented cases"?

Secondly, if you don't believe the conspiracy applies to Obama, who do you suspect is trying to get him elected?

Again, is Gallup in on this too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1480605

Simple questions.

[MadHound]

21. Trying to talk with you is like playing the old telephone game sometimes,

What gets said at one end of the line gets really convoluted by the time it gets to the other end.

Documented cases. Reagan, in the summer of '84, dropped the entire military into the "employed" figure. Until then, the military members weren't counted as either employed or unemployed, they were the military. He did this to solidify his chances that fall, his COS later admitted insomuch on NPR about fifteen, twenty years ago.

It is widely suspected that Bush boy fudged the unemployment numbers,
From 2004: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/06/05/32223/-UPDATE-Fudged-Job-Numbers
From 2008: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080709204737AAd1whK

Under Clinton the method of counting was changed, leading to charges of playing with the numbers.

It is instances like make people generally suspicious. Thus, it is understandable, when numbers that seem funny on the first glance come out, for either a Republican or Democratic president, for people on the other side to question their validity. It isn't complete idiocy, or was at least half of DU being idiots when they questioned the unemployment numbers under Bush?

Look, these reactions happen, chill, it will be gone by next week.

[ProSense]

24. You're obfuscating. You can't answer a simple question.

This is your evidence:

It is widely suspected that Bush boy fudged the unemployment numbers,
From 2004: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/06/05/32223/-UPDATE-Fudged-Job-Numbers
From 2008: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080709204737AAd1whK

You've got to be joking.

[MadHound]

25. Obfuscating what? Geez, I give it up.

You obviously either don't get, or don't want to get what I'm saying. Either something is lost in translation, or you simply don't comprehend what I'm saying. Do you have this much trouble communicating in real life?

Stop approaching everything I say as somehow a hit on Obama. You should know by now that if I'm going to criticize Obama I'm going to be up front and open about it, not sneak around with some sly word play.

Have a good evening, if you can carrying around all that suspicion.

[ProSense]

27. More obfuscation:

"Stop approaching everything I say as somehow a hit on Obama. You should know by now that if I'm going to criticize Obama I'm going to be up front and open about it, not sneak around with some sly word play."

Why are you hung up on this point? Are you trying to mask the fact that you cannot support your claim about previously cooked data?

[A Simple Game]

29. You give up? You never should have started!

With that one, if you don't start a post saying upon bended knee how much you love President Obama, you are already the enemy.

Just ignore her, she won't go away, but you will feel better.

[ProSense]

30. Wow

"With that one, if you don't start a post saying upon bended knee how much you love President Obama, you are already the enemy...Just ignore her, she won't go away, but you will feel better "

I feel better knowing that I get under your skin.

BTW, you're obviously not doing a good job ignoring me, but you're a winner at condescension.

[SmileyRose]

22. that graph is astonishing

Took him a mere 3 years to do a complete 180 on the complete meltdown whistleass left. All without one shred of support from Willard's bunch.

[Spirochete]

23. They're in denial

After all, they've made such a superhuman effort to suppress any sort of job creation or growth since - oh, I guess I'd have to go back to January of 2009. So of course they are extremely disappointed.

[applegrove]

26. On Real Time tonight they discussed how unpatriotic it is to try and downplay

economic good news because confidence in the economy is what results in even more good news in the months to come.

[dkf]

28. Accusing anyone of manipulating the data is idiocy.

But looking at the logic of the underlying numbers makes perfect sense.

Anyone who wants a decent read on the economy would and should do so. This is more important of course for investors and people who deal with money.

For those who are interested in the economy so they can enjoy the spectator sport of politics, attention to the details may seem strange or a waste of time, but that's because it's not as impactful to what they care about.

[Blue Idaho]

31. Well, they can't tell the truth...

They hate that our President is a black man who has brought honor back to the office and international respect back to our nation while saving us from an economic depression.

So what's left? All of this completely ridiculous birther, truther, jobber, secret Kenyan communist Muslim malarkey. They abandoned the role of the loyal opposition the day the President won the election.

[bluestate10]

32. The republican playbook is to attempt to de-legitimize any fact that does not fit their narrative.

Republicans were perfectly happy with the data when it was going upward toward 10%. Now the economy is reaching a strong footing and republicans did fucking NOTHING to help and everything to hurt. Voters should see the light and hold republican legislators accountable while re-electing President Obama. I fail to see how any respectable republican and patriot, if any are left in that party, can vote for Romney after all the lying and contradictory positions that have come out of that man's mouth. I fail to see why a decent republican and patriot would vote back in a republican controlled House or give control of the Senate to republicans.

[spanone]

33. k&r...