I'm wondering something about Cabinet resignations and the 25th Amendment

[StarfishSaver]

This is just me pondering, not assuming, but ...

The spate of cabinet resignations is interesting and is leading some to speculate that the rats are deserting the sinking ship to avoid having to invoke the 25th Amendment. BUT

Resigning is not the only way to avoid invoking the Amendment. They could just not agree to it. It's not like they take a vote. There just needs to be a majority willing to sign the declaration. But if they stay, maybe signing it puts them in a difficult situation.

BUT, leaving may actually make it more likely the 25th can be invoked without putting these secretaries on the spot.

The 25th Amendment requires a majority, not of Cabinet secretaries, but of "principal Officers" of the departments. This language is interesting and important. The "principal Officer" is the secretary, if there is one. But if the secretary's office is vacant, someone else serves as the principal Officer of the agency.

That means that if, for example, Elaine Chao resigns, the acting Secretary - probably the current Deputy Secretary - will be DOT's principal officer and THEY would have the authority to sign the declaration

I think that it's probably easier for the lower level department officials to sign off on the invocation of the 25th Amendment than for the higher profile Secretaries like DeVos and Chao.

Could it be that they are resigning to make it more likely that a majority of department heads will step up and remove Trump?

Hmmm.

[hurple]

1. No. Pence has already nixed the 25th

[StarfishSaver]

2. You know this?

He's discussed it with you?

[herding cats]

5. When did he say that?

I missed it somehow.

[SheltieLover]

7. Nancy & Chuck sat on hold to Pence for 45 min

Earlier today to discuss, then he refused to take call.

Has not called back, per Nancy's fairly recent tweet.

Impeachment, via rast-track, appears to be in motion.

I believe Dems are meeting tomorriw to discuss. 2-day process.

[herding cats]

9. Thank you!

Having gotten nothing done yesterday I've been extra busy today and have missed some.

[SheltieLover]

10. Yw!

Glad you are getting stuff done!

I've been seething, while reading DU & news.

Nadler approved fast track.

[SheltieLover]

11. Quick catch up link

Yes, it's Palmer Report, but concise.

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/house-judiciary-committee-chair-jerry-nadler-unveils-plan-to-fast-track-donald-trumps-impeachment/35331/

[herding cats]

13. Thanks so much!

I greatly appreciate it!

[SheltieLover]

15. You are most welcome!

Bill Palmer is a decent person. Hates dump.

[RockRaven]

3. Counterpoint - it makes it easier for Trump to dodge the 25th by sliding a known-loyal "acting"

person into the vacated position. IF -- and I don't know the answer -- the "acting secretary of X" counts as the principle officer even when there is a nonacting, properly confirmed deputy.

What does the resigning person get out of this? Absolving themselves of blame when he is not removed and yet still does more crazy shit.

[StarfishSaver]

6. Not necessarily

He can't just put whomever he wants into an acting position. There are legal restrictions to who can fill those posts.

And if the secretaries are actually using this strategy, they would certainly first make sure the person who would fill the acting role isn't owned by Trump and would sign the declaration.

To answer your question, whomever steps in as acting secretary would be the principal official, regardless the position they previously held.

[Stallion]

4. Matter of First Impression-Probably Depends on Presiding Judge

[StarfishSaver]

8. I don't think it would even be a close question

There is no question that an acting secretary is the principal officer of the department. That's the point of designating an acting secretary.

And even if he tried, this is not a matter Trump would be able to get resolved in court. There's not enough time.

[Renew Deal]

12. I think they're resigning because Pence isn't on board.

They would have stayed if he was.

[StarfishSaver]

14. Interesting

[Sparkly]

16. I considered that too

As a cop-out, basically.

I know what Pence said, but Trump threw him under the bus. He could still survive. I think he'd be in a worse situation if he stands by Trump, and there's another disaster in the next two weeks.

Feeling lucky, Mike?

[Mr.Bill]

17. They are resigning now because depending on how the

25th amendment happens or plays out, in the future they can always say they would have signed it or not signed it.