At the end of the day, what makes Ashli Bennett any more of a tragic figure than, say, Mohamad Atta?

[Montauk6]

Unless I'm missing something, seems crystal clear BOTH were terrorists attacking the United States who got their asses killed in the process. Both got caught up in their beliefs and took drastic respective actions that proved fatal. Damned if I can see much of a difference.

[Squidly]

1. Not one ounce of sympathy for this traitor

none. nada. zilch.

[Renew Deal]

5. What would she have done on the other side of the door?

Either clear the barricade and give the terrorists access to the escape tunnels or occupy law enforcement enough for the attackers to break in. That was one of the last defenses for both the congressional hall and its people.

[FeelingBlue]

2. I've had a hard time feeling sympathy

Because she was a trained member of the US military. She knew what she was doing. She took a stance against the US. Enough said.

US military members have an obligation to know the difference between the truth and lies. They should be trained to use their heads- even as they are taught to obey orders- and to use sound principles for gaining information. She failed in that and now she’s dead.

It IS sad. She has left behind her family and friends to try to find a pony of meaning in a very nasty pile.

[58Sunliner]

3. Nothing.

[beachbumbob]

4. she is no tragic victim but a shameful american and shameful veteran who disgraced

the uniform she wore.

too bad the Capital police failed and believe me even with 25 heavily Police, that crowd would have stopped well before they got to the steps with a few thousand rounds fired.

this was clearly a coup attempt and many of Capital Police and their chief are co-conspirators. Now we have to hope for swift retailiation and HARSH penalties and I do not hold my breath for either

[TheFarseer]

6. Because

She was an American and a veteran that got brain washed by a sick ideology. This brain washing is done by evil people that don’t care about Ashli at all but are just trying to use these people to get tax cuts and deregulation.

[kacekwl]

8. I agree. What makes it sad is so-called Americans

did this to another American for nothing but fun and profit. I wish it were those republicans and propaganda outlets who were in front of the gun for a change.

[StarfishSaver]

10. BS

We have all been exposed to that sick ideology and didn't turn into terrorists. It worked on her because she was fertile ground. It worked on her because she was open to it. It worked on her because, long before she ever heard of Donald Trump and Q-Anon, she was looking for a dangerous ideology to embrace and with them, she found it.

She's not a victim. I'm sorry she was killed, but I have no sympathy for her. She was killed because that was the only way to stop her from committing further terrorist acts.

[TheFarseer]

12. That's all true

I look at it almost like drug addiction or alcoholism. Some people are more susceptible than others but it’s still a tragedy when someone falls into any of those rabbit holes. I’m just glad all my friends growing up were into sports instead of drugs or weird conspiracy theories and pretending to be a militia. I don’t think I would have went too far into either of those but who knows. Ultimately you are correct that you have to make your own decisions what your life if going to be about and she chose poorly.

[greenjar_01]

17. Wait, you don't think Mohammed Atta was radicalized in more or less the same way?

I actually object to the initial post, since Atta planned for many months if not years to commit a mass murder, and this woman's culpability is far lower. The OP is engaging in a bit of hyperbole. But on the point you're making, the comparison is apt: why does this woman get a pass for being "brainwashed" by a "sick ideology," but not Atta? Processes of radicalization are similar, drawing on intense feelings of grievance and belonging, whether it is a gang member, al-Qaeda, or these Trumpy sickos. Or the FARC for that matter. It's odd that so many people are willing to grant this white "American" woman a pass for being radicalized and engaging in violent conduct, but not that gang member, not the ISIS people, not the FARC. I mean, it's not actually odd. It's perfectly clear why sweet Ashli gets the "poor Ashli, brainwashed by misinformation" treatment, while the others do not.

[TheFarseer]

25. That's a good point

I’m not super familiar with Muhammad Atta but he was likely around a much more indoctrinating environment.

But everyone back up a minute. Atta intentionality killed hundreds of people. Ashli broke into a building alongside a bunch of people. They definitely shouldn’t have done it but It’s a little different.

[Montauk6]

26. Since more time has elapsed, let's talk hyperbole

I understand your objection, it might seem like a reach on my part. But y'know, at this point on the other hand, my REAL frustration is the gross understatement surrounding these right-wing wacko atrocities and the doctrine of "None Dare Call It Terrorism," as demonstrated with the hemming and hawing on how to handle these "Branch Donaldians." Granted, her actions going in weren't going to result in the deaths of over 3,000 Americans but I've never seen numbers involved with defining terrorism; I guess I could've used Timothy McVeigh as a more palatable example? I'm just sick of the "oh that doesn't count" attitude when the perp is draped in a "Don't Tread On Me" flag.

[greenjar_01]

27. I do think it counts

I also think that the difference in degree might tip over to a difference in kind between Atta and this woman. That said, I agree whole-heartedly that most distinctions of kind are spurious, and that it is deeply troubling how easily people condemn some people who are radicalized while excusing others who have gone through the same process.

[Montauk6]

28. I hear ya and thanks!

[StarfishSaver]

23. This discussion is a perfect illustration of white privilege

When white people "go bad," other white people expend a lot of effort trying to humanize them and finding external reasons for how they "went bad." When black people commit crimes (or even when we don't commit crimes, but are just victims), that exercise in finding outside reasons beyond themselves is not undertaken. Instead, they are analyzed as if their wrongdoing emanated from inherent problem within their own psyche, not external forces.

[BainsBane]

19. +1

[llashram]

7. there is no difference

except...

[StarfishSaver]

9. We all know what it is that makes her more of a "tragic figure"

Whether people want to admit it, or not.

[greenjar_01]

18. Correct

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. Yep.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

11. The real tragedy here is that Trump's siege of the Capitol Building via his crazed followers

was the result of outrageous lies and propaganda over the course of the last 4 years by him, his family, his enablers in Congress, his attorneys, cable talk show hosts, among others. After 4 years of lies and propaganda it took little effort to incite insurrection at the US Capitol.
The real tragedy is that the United States will remain vulnerable to this because, as we've seen, nearly half the people in the country are unable to discern the difference between fact and fantasy, lies and truth and the leader of the free world is able to lie with impunity.

[Bradshaw3]

15. This needs to be pointed out more

Yes individual people are responsible ultimately for their actions but I believe she used to be an Obama voter. Did she suddenly turn evil or did years of propaganda help cause her and millions of others to lose their minds.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

24. Exactly.

Over 30,000 documented lies told by this president in the last 4 years reinforced by talk show hosts, fake news channels, members of Congress and, most recently, by the conspiracy theory mind control group known as Q cannot be ignored.
Their relentless lies laid bare a side of the First Amendment that has not likely been contemplated at length before now.
The Capitol siege and attempted overthrow of our government was the direct result, not of protected free speech but, rather, lies and propaganda protected by the same Constitutional guarantee.
If this issue is not addressed the country remains vulnerable to a repeat of Wednesday's events. Next time we may not be so fortunate.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

13. I have no sympathy for white supremacists

None at all.

[PJMcK]

14. Ashli can burn in Hell

She swore an oath to the Constitution when she joined the military. She violated that oath when she participated in the attack on our Congress.

I have no sympathy for her. She knew exactly what she was doing. I don't need to hear any bullshit about how she was brainwashed, etc. She had free will to make her life decisions.

She chose poorly.

[obamanut2012]

16. There is none

Except one was white and American.

[Voltaire2]

20. Watch the recent videos.

She was in the group trying to break into the room where house reps were sheltering, a room guarded inside by armed capitol police. They broke down the windows on the doors, she was first through the window, she got fatally shot.

You’re missing nothing.

[Gothmog]

22. This lady was a terrorist engaged in a crime