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BeyondGeography

(39,379 posts)
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 07:01 PM Jan 2021

Tim Snyder: America will not survive the big lie just because a liar is separated from power

The American Abyss

This is an essay-length piece in the NYT. I encourage you to read the whole thing. Some excerpts:

...In November 2020, reaching millions of lonely minds through social media, Trump told a lie that was dangerously ambitious: that he had won an election that in fact he had lost. This lie was big in every pertinent respect: not as big as “Jews run the world,” but big enough. The significance of the matter at hand was great: the right to rule the most powerful country in the world and the efficacy and trustworthiness of its succession procedures. The level of mendacity was profound. The claim was not only wrong, but it was also made in bad faith, amid unreliable sources. It challenged not just evidence but logic: Just how could (and why would) an election have been rigged against a Republican president but not against Republican senators and representatives? Trump had to speak, absurdly, of a “Rigged (for President) Election.”

... On the surface, a conspiracy theory makes its victim look strong: It sees Trump as resisting the Democrats, the Republicans, the Deep State, the pedophiles, the Satanists. More profoundly, however, it inverts the position of the strong and the weak. Trump’s focus on alleged “irregularities” and “contested states” comes down to cities where Black people live and vote. At bottom, the fantasy of fraud is that of a crime committed by Black people against white people...The lie outlasts the liar. The idea that Germany lost the First World War in 1918 because of a Jewish “stab in the back” was 15 years old when Hitler came to power. How will Trump’s myth of victimhood function in American life 15 years from now? And to whose benefit?

On Jan. 7, Trump called for a peaceful transition of power, implicitly conceding that his putsch had failed. Even then, though, he repeated and even amplified his electoral fiction: It was now a sacred cause for which people had sacrificed. Trump’s imagined stab in the back will live on chiefly thanks to its endorsement by members of Congress. In November and December 2020, Republicans repeated it, giving it a life it would not otherwise have had. In retrospect, it now seems as though the last shaky compromise between the gamers and the breakers was the idea that Trump should have every chance to prove that wrong had been done to him. That position implicitly endorsed the big lie for Trump supporters who were inclined to believe it. It failed to restrain Trump, whose big lie only grew bigger.

...If Trump remains present in American political life, he will surely repeat his big lie incessantly. Hawley and Cruz and the other breakers share responsibility for where this leads. Cruz and Hawley seem to be running for president. Yet what does it mean to be a candidate for office and denounce voting? If you claim that the other side has cheated, and your supporters believe you, they will expect you to cheat yourself. By defending Trump’s big lie on Jan. 6, they set a precedent: A Republican presidential candidate who loses an election should be appointed anyway by Congress. Republicans in the future, at least breaker candidates for president, will presumably have a Plan A, to win and win, and a Plan B, to lose and win. No fraud is necessary; only allegations that there are allegations of fraud. Truth is to be replaced by spectacle, facts by faith.

...Trump’s coup attempt of 2020-21, like other failed coup attempts, is a warning for those who care about the rule of law and a lesson for those who do not. His pre-fascism revealed a possibility for American politics. For a coup to work in 2024, the breakers will require something that Trump never quite had: an angry minority, organized for nationwide violence, ready to add intimidation to an election. Four years of amplifying a big lie just might get them this. To claim that the other side stole an election is to promise to steal one yourself. It is also to claim that the other side deserves to be punished.

...America will not survive the big lie just because a liar is separated from power. It will need a thoughtful repluralization of media and a commitment to facts as a public good. The racism structured into every aspect of the coup attempt is a call to heed our own history. Serious attention to the past helps us to see risks but also suggests future possibility. We cannot be a democratic republic if we tell lies about race, big or small. Democracy is not about minimizing the vote nor ignoring it, neither a matter of gaming nor of breaking a system, but of accepting the equality of others, heeding their voices and counting their votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Tim Snyder: America will not survive the big lie just because a liar is separated from power (Original Post) BeyondGeography Jan 2021 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2021 #1
America will not survive the big lie just because a liar is separated from power. elleng Jan 2021 #2
Denms should subpoena Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson re: their role in the "Big Lie". Nt Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #3
Amen to that! kentuck Jan 2021 #4
Can't wait to read it. cilla4progress Jan 2021 #5
Powerful, must read central scrutinizer Jan 2021 #6
excellent. I've been thinking this all along and am happy that NRaleighLiberal Jan 2021 #7
Overwrought ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #8
Trump is history BeyondGeography Jan 2021 #10
I Still Disagree ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #12
Kick dalton99a Jan 2021 #9
he laid the foundation for the lie in 2016, as he anticipated a loss, "watch Philadelphia" Demovictory9 Jan 2021 #11

Response to BeyondGeography (Original post)

elleng

(131,089 posts)
2. America will not survive the big lie just because a liar is separated from power.
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 07:04 PM
Jan 2021

It will need a thoughtful repluralization of media and a commitment to facts as a public good.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,019 posts)
7. excellent. I've been thinking this all along and am happy that
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 07:14 PM
Jan 2021

it is being written about.

The congressional "R"s need to be weeded out. The cult deprogrammed

Ain't gonna be easy

ProfessorGAC

(65,168 posts)
8. Overwrought
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 07:23 PM
Jan 2021

I think it will!
A cult of personality needs the personality.
And, this personality will not have the power of the presidency and is losing allies & influence as I type this.

Losing the social media blowtorch only accelerates the descent into "has-been" territory.

Forbes & Business Insider have already turned on him. That seems a leading indicator into his value and importance to big business.

The recent poll shows 45% of Rs think the terrorist attack was acceptable. A minority of Rs, representing 11.25% of the adult public. That plus around 9% of so-called independents.
15 out of every 19 people disapprove of what's going on. This suggests they DON'T believe the election was stolen. Otherwise, they'd support what happened.
BTW, 5% of those polled saw the terrorists as patriots. Under half of those who approved of the criminal attack.

Finally, even these lunatics will lose interest given their short attention span. When he's just another private citizen, they'll move on to their next imaginary grievance.

BeyondGeography

(39,379 posts)
10. Trump is history
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 07:59 PM
Jan 2021

Your analysis, while not overwrought, is blinkered in the extreme. The article is about a Trumpless future and the potential for someone with better institutional political skills plus the common sense to cultivate the military, to circumvent the electoral process to retain and maintain power. Particularly in a time of greater economic and geopolitical crisis.

Trump laid bare the power of the big lie in contemporary America, that seems obvious. Do you think that’s a Trump thing only?

ProfessorGAC

(65,168 posts)
12. I Still Disagree
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 08:35 PM
Jan 2021

I read it. You don't have to tell me what it's about.
And, the investigation is just beginning.
Way too soon to assume defeat as you seem too willing to do.

Demovictory9

(32,475 posts)
11. he laid the foundation for the lie in 2016, as he anticipated a loss, "watch Philadelphia"
Sat Jan 9, 2021, 08:02 PM
Jan 2021

he implied black areas would be the source of vote cheating if he lost.

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