Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has criticized Twitter for banning President Trump, (Original Post) yaesu Jan 2021 OP
It's not a free speech issue, the end. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2021 #1
Exactly Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2021 #32
He has plenty of avenues to speak soothsayer Jan 2021 #2
No kidding! He can hold a press conference any time he wants and it will Tanuki Jan 2021 #10
Zactly soothsayer Jan 2021 #16
I thought she was smarter than that Skittles Jan 2021 #3
You'd think her hitler-dar would be a little more attuned soothsayer Jan 2021 #20
She must be hoping for a Drumpf shoulder rub. CurtEastPoint Jan 2021 #4
Angela: Love you lots! DonaldsRump Jan 2021 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author DonaldsRump Jan 2021 #6
Inciting Insurrection is NOT free speech. PERIOD! onecaliberal Jan 2021 #7
He's not acting as president, and he is fomenting violent insurrection. Crunchy Frog Jan 2021 #8
It's not about speech C_U_L8R Jan 2021 #9
Wasn't it on Congress to dump Trump, not Twitter? leftstreet Jan 2021 #11
Really, stay in your own freaking lane Chancellor. njhoneybadger Jan 2021 #12
She's welcomed to take those 74 million + 1 off our hands if she'd like... EarthFirst Jan 2021 #13
Hitler. GeorgeGist Jan 2021 #14
They let him write a book and look what happened.  ( n/t ) Make7 Jan 2021 #22
Seriously, I don't think you have the facts. SamKnause Jan 2021 #15
She needs to min her own business. If Hitler was alive and tweeting, I'm sure her octoberlib Jan 2021 #17
Unless... BumRushDaShow Jan 2021 #18
It's a private platform Ritabert Jan 2021 #19
This from the leader of a country that has bans on some speech Progressive dog Jan 2021 #21
Her point is governments, not corporations should make these decisions. She's not saying Trump Doodley Jan 2021 #25
I don't agree with her. Progressive dog Jan 2021 #27
It's a business. It sets rules for use. BusyBeingBest Jan 2021 #23
To be fair, she's saying lawmakers need to set the parameters, not tech companies, and possibly one Doodley Jan 2021 #24
I do disagree. It's not up to lawmakers to tell Parler, Twitter, Facebook etc. who they have BusyBeingBest Jan 2021 #26
We are in this mess because of these platforms. The coup attempt would not have happened without Doodley Jan 2021 #28
You can't regulate the internets because you don't like the message BusyBeingBest Jan 2021 #29
Most Germans don't agree with her hauweg Jan 2021 #30
Granted, Facebook and Twitter are private companies DFW Jan 2021 #31
Yes she should. moondust Jan 2021 #35
They don't even allow you to post Nazi crap in Germany Generic Other Jan 2021 #33
And people who drive drunk have a right to drive some more. Maine-i-acs Jan 2021 #34
He's the so-called "leader of the free world". His free speech rights have not been eroded. Solly Mack Jan 2021 #36

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,391 posts)
32. Exactly
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:52 PM
Jan 2021

This is one of the first missteps I've heard from her. Businesses don't owe anybody a platform if they're not using it appropriately or safely.

Tanuki

(14,914 posts)
10. No kidding! He can hold a press conference any time he wants and it will
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:05 PM
Jan 2021

be covered in all the media. If he doesn't feel like showing up in person, he commands an entire press and communications staff, paid for by us taxpayers, who can deliver his message.

DonaldsRump

(7,715 posts)
5. Angela: Love you lots!
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:04 PM
Jan 2021

But this is ridiculous: free speech (in the US context) relates to governmental restrictions on speech, not those imposed by non-governmental/private actors like Twitter.

Twitter can do what it wants.

Response to yaesu (Original post)

Crunchy Frog

(26,578 posts)
8. He's not acting as president, and he is fomenting violent insurrection.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:05 PM
Jan 2021

This is NOT a free speech issue.

Angela would do well to recall her own country's history.

C_U_L8R

(44,986 posts)
9. It's not about speech
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:05 PM
Jan 2021

It's about planning, organizing, deploying and executing terrorism. That's what these technologies are being used for.

EarthFirst

(2,896 posts)
13. She's welcomed to take those 74 million + 1 off our hands if she'd like...
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:07 PM
Jan 2021

Then she can mince words over free speech when it’s her debacle to reign in...

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
17. She needs to min her own business. If Hitler was alive and tweeting, I'm sure her
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:08 PM
Jan 2021

opinion would be different.

BumRushDaShow

(128,420 posts)
18. Unless...
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:08 PM
Jan 2021

someone starts invoking "Hitler" and "Nazis" there and then...

She should know better. The U.S. government isn't censoring the speech. The "President Trump@potus" and "The White House@WhiteHouse" accounts are both still up.

"Free market capitalism" has decided that seditionist rants on their platform weren't good for their "bottom line" and it took 4 years for them to finally get around to doing it.

Ritabert

(665 posts)
19. It's a private platform
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:09 PM
Jan 2021

Consider that Twitter is a "Christian" bakery and Trump is a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
21. This from the leader of a country that has bans on some speech
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:10 PM
Jan 2021

Tromp's supporters were wearing Auschwitz shirts, nazi emblems, and shirts with 6MWME which would are banned in Germany.

§ 261 The person who publicly declares sympathies with such a movement mentioned in § 260, will be punished by prison from 6 months to 3 years.

Austria, Germany, Hungary and Romania also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as the display of Nazi symbols.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial

Doodley

(9,036 posts)
25. Her point is governments, not corporations should make these decisions. She's not saying Trump
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:21 PM
Jan 2021

should be allowed to incite hatred and violence.

Progressive dog

(6,899 posts)
27. I don't agree with her.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:29 PM
Jan 2021

I'm glad that Trump was banned by corporations because our government won't. The result is more tepid when corporations do it because they can only ban from places they control. So Merkel is saying Trump should continue to be allowed to incite hate and violence wherever he wants to.

BusyBeingBest

(8,052 posts)
23. It's a business. It sets rules for use.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:14 PM
Jan 2021

It cannot expose itself to liability when it's misused by account-holders, or it won't last long as a business. It is not speech. Trump can talk all day, every day, to everyone or no one, with any willing organization or person to broadcast or record it. Maybe Merkel doesn't understand that no business in America is REQUIRED to broadcast or disseminate his comments. Germany must operate differently.

Doodley

(9,036 posts)
24. To be fair, she's saying lawmakers need to set the parameters, not tech companies, and possibly one
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:18 PM
Jan 2021

private individual that runs a social media company. I don't disagree. Our lawmakers need to accept responsibility first and not simply leave it for the heads of social media corporations.

BusyBeingBest

(8,052 posts)
26. I do disagree. It's not up to lawmakers to tell Parler, Twitter, Facebook etc. who they have
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:24 PM
Jan 2021

to allow to use their platforms, and under which circumstances. For their own survival, they HAVE to monitor--and silence--troublemakers who use them to run afoul with the law. If your letters to the editor of your local fish wrap keep getting rejected, are they silencing you? Or have they made the decision they don't like what you're saying, and have the right not to run it?

Doodley

(9,036 posts)
28. We are in this mess because of these platforms. The coup attempt would not have happened without
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:32 PM
Jan 2021

Twitter. Do you want the next Trump to keep posting conspiracy theories, hate-filled lies about opponents and incite more terror? If so, why trust the social media companies? They are reacting now because they know they played a role. It's too late. Lawmakers need to act to prevent this from happening again.

BusyBeingBest

(8,052 posts)
29. You can't regulate the internets because you don't like the message
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:37 PM
Jan 2021

people are receiving. It can only be regulated as to what is legal and illegal in the United States. Examples of possible illegality: death threats. Exhortations to violence. Fraud. Conspiracy to commit crimes. Various kinds of pornography or other indecent material. Other than that, businesses who have platforms and blogs and servers etc. can police their own users and set their own terms for use, and I think that's the proper way to go about it.

hauweg

(98 posts)
30. Most Germans don't agree with her
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:47 PM
Jan 2021

81 percent of Germans agree with Twitter's decision according to a poll. She's not representing the majority in this case.

DFW

(54,272 posts)
31. Granted, Facebook and Twitter are private companies
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 02:47 PM
Jan 2021

They are thus subject to equal treatment laws, BUT, just like a restaurant has the „right to refuse service,“ FB and Twitter have the right, and a moral if not legal duty not to run afoul of incitement laws.

Besides, since by Germany has clear and strict laws restricting (Nazi) speech, she, of all people, should understand others trying to protect themselves against the same thing.

moondust

(19,956 posts)
35. Yes she should.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 03:08 PM
Jan 2021

They even passed a "Facebook Act" in 2017. I don't know what's in it but given their history assumed it was done partly to prevent the spread of dangerous propaganda.

Maine-i-acs

(1,499 posts)
34. And people who drive drunk have a right to drive some more.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 03:01 PM
Jan 2021

And people who kill people with guns have a right to own more guns.
And people who kick dogs should be allowed to own more dogs, etc

Nobody took away his free speech mein frau, he still has vocal cords.

Solly Mack

(90,758 posts)
36. He's the so-called "leader of the free world". His free speech rights have not been eroded.
Mon Jan 11, 2021, 03:15 PM
Jan 2021

He has a massive platform available to him as a president. He simply prefers to talk shit while he shits.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»German Chancellor Angela ...