Correcting blatant falsehoods and expecting TRUTH is not censorship

[coti]

any more than it's censorship when a math teacher says 2 + 2 = 4, not 5.

You don't get to have an "opinion" on whether Trump won the election. You either understand the FACT that he lost, or you don't. And if a person refuses to acknowledge genuine truth and facts, routinely, they can't be angry when private enterprise shuts their mic off for the benefit of democracy. That's not censorship. That's FLUNKING OUT.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

1. According to you.

However, this was an argument I had more and more frequently in my classroom over the years. Increasingly, there was major pushback from students & their parents, that they had the right to their own "opinion" on anything.

Explaining that certain things are facts, and not subject to opinion did no good. After all, they're entitled to their opinion on what they can have opinions on.

It was so disturbing, because, while I didn't predict Trump specifically, I predicted Trumpism. It was clearly where it was all leading.

[pfitz59]

2. I had a long discussion with a former classmate tonight on this subject.

He is a Trumpie. Fact and logic escape him. Despite the vote certification, all the lawsuits etc. he swears Trump won. He will not be dissuaded from this delusion. He is upset with Twitter, FB and the Parler situation. Cries its 'censorship', that he has a right to spread the truth as he KNOWS it. The guy is so far gone he is beyond redemption.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

7. Frustrating! Btw, this censorship crap needs to be corrected every time..

It must be pointed out that free speech, as in the 1st Amendment, which they are usually claiming is being violated, only applies to instances when the government is doing the censoring.

Not that, as you say, they gaf about facts like that, but they still need to hear it.

I do wonder how these people get along in life if they approach everything with the same belligerent ignorance. Do they choose doctors or car mechanics who are loudmouthed, dishonest braggarts who will cheat you if given the chance?

[coti]

3. Yup. This is THE fundamental reason our democracy is having

so much trouble. Some people just don't believe in facts and truth anymore. The internet and social media have allowed them to construct their own reality for themselves. When their illusion runs into the rock-solid outside world, it falls apart.

Then they get upset and dig a deeper hole trying to figure out a way to keep fooling themselves.

[Turin_C3PO]

6. I'm not sure about that.

Most of Trump‘s supporters are not recent products of our education system. They tend to be older. Among the youth and younger adults his approval rating is lowest.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

8. One parent if one of my worst students told me, "My father hated school,

and I hated school, and my son is going to hate school.

So, it's not just one generation. And all of them, whatever the age, have been led to abandon logic and reason by the RW media.

Look at the Trump rallies & riots. There are people of all ages. While the majority of younger people tend to be more liberal, there are plenty of them who are RWers.

[Turin_C3PO]

9. Yes, I do realize

that there’s plenty of young MAGA and plenty of older liberals. I’m just pushing back against the idea, which I see a lot here, that a recent change in culture among youth and the education system is why Trumpism is thriving. Looking back at your post, I realize you weren’t saying anything like that.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

12. Yeah, I'm always pushing back on the idea that this is all

the "failure of the educational system."

My point being that you can't blame the educators when people with a tendency to be RWers for various reasons are being radicalized by RW media. And part of that radicalization is anti-intellectualism. They refuse to be educated, and they see it as a badge of honor to do so. Education turns people into evil liberals.

One of the many glaring red flags regarding Trump was when he told that story about punching his second grade teacher. Of course he did. And if course that endeared him to the RWers.

[ck4829]

11. That might be a factor

Being a good citizen of the net was drilled into my generation.

Back up your claims, don't just say "Google it yourself"
Don't search for the things that just confirm what you believe and exclude the rest
If Q tells you mass arrests are coming for 4 years now and you still believe it, then you are a sucker

They're getting used more than they use the Internet

[Mike 03]

4. Groups like Trumpism, Q Anon and even the modern Republican Party are

identitarian groups in which the sense of belonging is so powerful that it takes precedence over facts. Even if you could eradicate falsehoods from mainstream and legacy media platforms, I'm not that sure it would do much good.

It's so disturbing to see former Trumpists and Republicans step forward and tell these people, "We lied to you and everything you think you know is a lie," only to see the cult members add a new theory to their theories explaining why the people finally demonstrating courage are part of a big conspiracy. (Now even Mike Pence is part of the Deep State!).

This is very dangerous and when experts are asked the "What to do?" question they either have over intellectualized, impossible solutions (educating them, which is futile) or they honestly say they don't know what to do.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

10. I worry there is no way out. Maybe we can keep more people from

joining the cult, but the trend is going in the opposite direction.

I don't know if this can be over-intellectualized. It's psychologically based. Did you read the article referenced in this post?: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214575956

Very interesting, but depressing, explanation of how Q-Anon reels them in.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

5. De-Nazification is going to be difficult. The adults have to take charge

or democracy and the United States will not survive,

[lame54]

14. Nutzi's

[coti]

13. Kick nt