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flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:37 AM Jan 2021

Ho Lei Schitt! Just heard on MSNBC that National Guard troops

deployed for the inauguration will be carrying live ammunition.

You have to have a military background or be a vet to know how serious this is. They are preparing for an honest to God U.S. vs Paramilitary confrontation.

I feel sorry for all involved but the Militias will see what it means to commit treason by taking up arms against the United States of America. If they do, there will be blood.

132 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ho Lei Schitt! Just heard on MSNBC that National Guard troops (Original Post) flamin lib Jan 2021 OP
Why wouldn't they be? bearsfootball516 Jan 2021 #1
This hardly ever happens obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #3
Good to know, I didn't know that. bearsfootball516 Jan 2021 #4
Indeed, it's always good to learn new things obamanut2012 Jan 2021 #28
Same here! I had no idea soothsayer Jan 2021 #35
That's not always the case. denbot Jan 2021 #8
Like Kent State. SergeStorms Jan 2021 #95
😖😢😡 ailsagirl Jan 2021 #131
Most people have no idea how paranoid the military is about their guns and ammunition. flamin lib Jan 2021 #13
Thanks for the insight and info Bradshaw3 Jan 2021 #30
Wow! SheltieLover Jan 2021 #34
On TV this morning, they showed them signing out their weapons. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #39
That seems very normal. I had to do that 50+ years ago. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2021 #132
Holy hell. MontanaMama Jan 2021 #87
I feel ya-in the pit of my stomach. I had the same sickening thought. BadgerMom Jan 2021 #99
The Military weeds out as many extremists as they can regardless of bent. I'll bet these troops ... marble falls Jan 2021 #106
I doubt that many of them are suicidal . . . flamin lib Jan 2021 #108
They sure were. Even with the non firing M-1's we got in boot camp. marble falls Jan 2021 #104
There are a few ways they can be depoyed Miguelito Loveless Jan 2021 #25
They're usually armed with rubber bullets, not live ammo. stopbush Jan 2021 #50
Why not? wcollar Jan 2021 #94
I feel sorry for the troops and their families fighting Bluethroughu Jan 2021 #2
They have to. A show of force is necessary for multiple reasons. I hope the state houses are still_one Jan 2021 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2021 #17
My son's NG unit just got called up to protect our statehouse until after the inauguration. mercuryblues Jan 2021 #24
Will they be armed? SheltieLover Jan 2021 #29
IDK mercuryblues Jan 2021 #42
I wish your son stays safe, and hopefully will deter the seditionists from doing anything still_one Jan 2021 #32
Same here mercuryblues Jan 2021 #51
Hoping and praying your son stays safe. Cinnamonspice Jan 2021 #63
No kidding! calimary Jan 2021 #105
If the terrorists come back, they will have to be mowed down. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #41
+1 - Wish that was not true, Lokee11 Jan 2021 #83
+1 K&R Let's pray we will have peace the next few days till Biden is ensconsed in the WH & the Con onetexan Jan 2021 #49
yea me too bdamomma Jan 2021 #74
Will there be sufficient National Guard units at state capitals if many units no_hypocrisy Jan 2021 #6
My guess is yes, there'll be more than enough Victor_c3 Jan 2021 #57
Can Ingersollman Jan 2021 #76
I was a Platoon Leader in Iraq, Feb 2004 - March 2005 Victor_c3 Jan 2021 #121
My Ingersollman Jan 2021 #123
Wow, you really know your stuff. Thanks for the info. BigBearJohn Jan 2021 #110
It isn't a "protest" if you bring guns. It is an act of WAR against your country. AKA TREASON. nt TigressDem Jan 2021 #7
Thank you! StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #22
+1 there's no such thing as an "armed protest." lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #43
There apparently is - if the "armed protesters" are white. StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #45
Yeah. lagomorph777 Jan 2021 #48
+1 Lokee11 Jan 2021 #85
Open carry or concealed carry is illegal in Washington DC, so the act of brining weapons still_one Jan 2021 #36
Good. hadEnuf Jan 2021 #9
It would be unconscionable for them to be defenseless against the mob Klaralven Jan 2021 #10
Like on 1/6? SheltieLover Jan 2021 #26
For those that pray, pray the National Guard is defense enough. nt TigressDem Jan 2021 #53
They are backed up by The United States Army Band "Pershing's Own" Klaralven Jan 2021 #84
Joint Force Headquarters National Capital Region Klaralven Jan 2021 #92
Very serious paleotn Jan 2021 #11
I hope they're screening the National Guard troops to make sure they're not LaMouffette Jan 2021 #12
I heard someone say they are doing exactly that Siwsan Jan 2021 #16
It was reported last night that the Army are dware Jan 2021 #18
+1. I'm somewhat worried about this radius777 Jan 2021 #33
Sad how much of this was beneath the surface moonscape Jan 2021 #54
One hateful POS bdamomma Jan 2021 #75
That POS is just the pustule on the body of the (r)epuglicons and people like murdock, mercer erronis Jan 2021 #120
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2021 #14
... dware Jan 2021 #19
This might be just magical thinking but if someone, the AG or someone, put out a special in2herbs Jan 2021 #15
Maybe some SheltieLover Jan 2021 #23
That we heard about it means they did already. Iggo Jan 2021 #119
I hope the NG troops will be thoroughly vetted. At the very least, ecstatic Jan 2021 #20
Good! Let's hope they have "permission" to use it, if needed! SheltieLover Jan 2021 #21
SOME NG are expected to face a domestic terrorist mob notinkansas Jan 2021 #38
That's what I read. SheltieLover Jan 2021 #44
Those who would send in unarmed troops notinkansas Jan 2021 #55
That's not how chickenhawks roll SheltieLover Jan 2021 #59
That sounds strange. Troops are supposed to wait for the order to fire. Hekate Jan 2021 #125
Weapons should be used against insurrectionists. dalton99a Jan 2021 #27
... dware Jan 2021 #31
They need to be prepared to use deadly force radius777 Jan 2021 #37
Absolutely! SheltieLover Jan 2021 #47
Many if not most of the cops appeared complicit IMO radius777 Jan 2021 #58
Trying? Did they have difficulty opening or holding doors for terrorists? SheltieLover Jan 2021 #60
Two Dr.Bluebird42 Jan 2021 #127
Hadn't heard about maga hat terrorist cop SheltieLover Jan 2021 #128
Exactly +1 Lokee11 Jan 2021 #86
unfortunately, this can get out of hand quickly.... getagrip_already Jan 2021 #40
I prefer the preemptive vaccum approach, too! SheltieLover Jan 2021 #52
We have a very different National Guard these days. llmart Jan 2021 #102
This is nothing like Kent state. It's a unique moment in American history. Politicub Jan 2021 #118
The 2nd Amendment folks claim they need automatic weapons to stop the tyrranical Government... brooklynite Jan 2021 #46
They seem to have missed this: flamin lib Jan 2021 #64
+1 Ferrets are Cool Jan 2021 #71
Amendment 14 is applicable to complicit Republicans office holders; Requires a 2/3 vote to ACQUIT Marcuse Jan 2021 #80
Unusual but not unheard of sarisataka Jan 2021 #56
I'd announce live ammo, shoot to kill, etc., too. Rube militias should be under no illusions that Hoyt Jan 2021 #61
Sad that it's come to this. Cinnamonspice Jan 2021 #62
I agree-- with both things you wrote ailsagirl Jan 2021 #112
Sad. But necessary! Think about it.... 4 ...FOUR US presidents to be there. Obama, Clinton, Bush Thekaspervote Jan 2021 #65
I wonder if all the militias mobilized will reverse course or damn the torpedos. Maybe they will Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #66
Our guard troops are there for a good reason randr Jan 2021 #67
Easy targets Traildogbob Jan 2021 #68
Methinks that if ONE shot is fired by the magats Ferrets are Cool Jan 2021 #69
You Ingersollman Jan 2021 #70
A government that can't defend itself is not much of a government bucolic_frolic Jan 2021 #72
flamin, posted on my FB page this morning HAB911 Jan 2021 #73
Your comment is as good as I have seen twodogsbarking Jan 2021 #88
Yes, sad cannon fodder HAB911 Jan 2021 #90
History gets rewritten and twodogsbarking Jan 2021 #93
Lets get this over with... Jon King Jan 2021 #77
very dangerous times llashram Jan 2021 #78
When I Was On National Guard Riot DUty In 1966 DallasNE Jan 2021 #79
In 1971 we had one man in each squad with a shotgun ashredux Jan 2021 #97
This is so sad, but absolutely necessary after the insurrection on 1/6/21. Could all be avoided iluvtennis Jan 2021 #81
K&R BlueJac Jan 2021 #82
This is SERIOUS - the guard WILL NOT be out-gunned by the Insurrectionists, that's rule #1 of the NoMoreRepugs Jan 2021 #89
The national guard today is not the same as in 1970 ashredux Jan 2021 #91
Traitors don't deserve blanks. Sneederbunk Jan 2021 #96
Let's see how the "Civil War" that cultists have craved... Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2021 #98
Let's hope the only deaths are from the hastily retreating stampede of y'all Qaeda. Crowman2009 Jan 2021 #100
More importantly, what are the Rules of Engagement? Aviation Pro Jan 2021 #101
Armed units are not trained to do crowd control. BrightKnight Jan 2021 #103
Those clems don't seem to understand that the US military is seriously geared up. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2021 #107
good..Im in no mood for prisoners. samnsara Jan 2021 #109
Of course they should be armed! JamesJ Jan 2021 #111
Magats can martyr themselves at the alter of their bankrupt, treasonous Dotard. Pepsidog Jan 2021 #113
Hopefully Bear Creek Jan 2021 #114
I dont think they will show this time when faced with opposition they back down like snow flakes ace3csusm Jan 2021 #115
Nat. Guard is saying "fuck around and find out" apnu Jan 2021 #116
Simple message Bring it Trumpist. You will die. Roc2020 Jan 2021 #117
I told my mom and my husband last night that I have liberalhistorian Jan 2021 #122
My money is on the National Guard Vinnie From Indy Jan 2021 #124
Accelerationist Neo-Nazis call on Deployed National Guard to Join Their Cause Dr.Bluebird42 Jan 2021 #126
Rubes... czarjak Jan 2021 #129
All those shits going to the capital for their little civil war? THIS is their antifa. Vivienne235729 Jan 2021 #130

denbot

(9,901 posts)
8. That's not always the case.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:43 AM
Jan 2021

Ammo can be distributed quickly in most situations, to minimize the potential of accidental or unauthorized engagements.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
13. Most people have no idea how paranoid the military is about their guns and ammunition.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:48 AM
Jan 2021

Typically there are a few designated individuals under the direct control of a command grade officer who will have live ammunition. If all hell breaks out pre-loaded magazines will be issued with records kept on who got how many rounds and when they are returned at the end of patrol every round has to be accounted for.

If they are deployed with ammunition from the git go it is a REALLY big deal. It means the Brass is anticipating, no expecting, armed confrontation.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
34. Wow!
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:03 AM
Jan 2021

Ty for explaining!

I'm glad they will be equipped to defend themselves, Joe, Kamala, & our country from the onset.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
39. On TV this morning, they showed them signing out their weapons.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:11 AM
Jan 2021

Each troop had to record the serial number and sign a document.

Serious accountability.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,369 posts)
132. That seems very normal. I had to do that 50+ years ago.
Thu Jan 14, 2021, 09:51 AM
Jan 2021

Every time I took my trusty M14 out of the company armory, I had to sign for it.

It had two numbers: manufacturer's serial number, and armory rack number painted on the stock.

Military brass is displeased when a gun goes missing.

MontanaMama

(23,337 posts)
87. Holy hell.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:27 PM
Jan 2021

I guess I feel better knowing this but it makes me uneasy at the same time. Do we know 100% that the NG will protect the President and VP Elects and not be stocked with MAGAts? I can’t believe that could actually be a possibility, but there. I said it.

marble falls

(57,265 posts)
106. The Military weeds out as many extremists as they can regardless of bent. I'll bet these troops ...
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:19 PM
Jan 2021

... are highly vetted.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,474 posts)
25. There are a few ways they can be depoyed
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:57 AM
Jan 2021

- No weapons
- With weapons, no ammo (ammo can be quickly distributed if needed)
- With weapons and ammo, but weapons unloaded
- With weapons and ammo, weapons loaded

I think this goes back to the Kent State, and a desire to keep ammo out of weapons unless absolutely needed.

Bluethroughu

(5,201 posts)
2. I feel sorry for the troops and their families fighting
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:41 AM
Jan 2021

For our country, the insurrectionists filled with white supremacists not sad.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
5. They have to. A show of force is necessary for multiple reasons. I hope the state houses are
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:42 AM
Jan 2021

prepared for these traitors also


Response to still_one (Reply #5)

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
24. My son's NG unit just got called up to protect our statehouse until after the inauguration.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:56 AM
Jan 2021

I live in a solid red state. Our governor is afraid of his own supporters.

mercuryblues

(14,543 posts)
51. Same here
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:15 AM
Jan 2021

When he told me I was a bit stunned. Fortune cookies do come true: We live in interesting times.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
41. If the terrorists come back, they will have to be mowed down.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:11 AM
Jan 2021

There is no room for compromise this time.

Lokee11

(235 posts)
83. +1 - Wish that was not true,
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:19 PM
Jan 2021

But I think you are right - I agree with you. Shouldn't have been any room to begin with.

FDT!

onetexan

(13,062 posts)
49. +1 K&R Let's pray we will have peace the next few days till Biden is ensconsed in the WH & the Con
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:14 AM
Jan 2021

gone.

bdamomma

(63,923 posts)
74. yea me too
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:50 AM
Jan 2021

I keep on thinking this is a minority of insurrectionists who want to do harm to our country. Again a minority. They do not know what they are up against.

American Domestic Terrorists in plain sight, promoting more violence for POS cult leader, tRump needs to be removed ASAP. Repigs should be expelled from Congress and also those who are banishing arms those who do not wear masks and that Qanon Marjorie Green.

no_hypocrisy

(46,202 posts)
6. Will there be sufficient National Guard units at state capitals if many units
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:43 AM
Jan 2021

will be assigned to the Capitol on January 20?

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
57. My guess is yes, there'll be more than enough
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:19 AM
Jan 2021

Guard units are just another tier of support beyond civilian police units that’ll be there too. Aside from that, even a small unit has a lot of firepower.

I was an Mechanized Infantry Platoon Leader and I had 46 Soldiers under my command. With that, I had 4x M240B machine guns, 6-8x M249 Machine guns, 6-8x M203 grenade launchers, and a guy with a sniper rifle. On top of all that, I had 4x Bradley Fighting Vehicles - each with a 25mm chain gun, an M240C machine gun and 2x TOW missiles.

Unless the hillbillies brought a serious anti armor weapon (like an RPG), there is nothing they could shoot at the armored vehicles that’d stop them.

A single guard unit usually consists of a Company sized element, which is made up of 3 platoons or roughly 140 Soldiers. I’m not sure how many guard units are usually in a given state, but I’d safely assume that there’d be at least a company sized element of a combat unit in each state.

Not every guard unit is Infantry, but there are plenty of units that have “teeth” such as Military Police, Engineers, Artillery, and Armor. If needed, they’d pull mechanics, cooks, and other support personnel and give them weapons and deploy them too.

Ingersollman

(204 posts)
76. Can
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:52 AM
Jan 2021

I ask where and when? I was 11B/11M as well. Active duty from 1981-1989. Squad leader aboard a Bradley in Ft. Stewart, GA from 1987-1989. Got out right before the first Gulf War.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
121. I was a Platoon Leader in Iraq, Feb 2004 - March 2005
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 03:11 PM
Jan 2021

I was stationed in Vilseck, Germany with 3rd Brigade / 1st Infantry Division.

I originally enlisted to n 1997 as a combat medic, but I took a green to gold ROTC scholarship and graduated in 2002 and was commissioned as an Infantry Officer. Infantry was my first choice, and I have no idea what I was thinking. I’m mostly proud of my service and the fact that I was an Infantryman, but I doubt I’d do it all over again the same way.

I spent a summer as a cadet with the 3rd ID at fort Stewart. It was an interesting experience, to say the least.

Ingersollman

(204 posts)
123. My
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 04:13 PM
Jan 2021

recruiter, when I informed him that I chose 11B, asked, "What, did you fall on your head this morning?" Interesting to say the least. Although I loved being a gunner and commander of the BFV. Serious range fun, that.

still_one

(92,422 posts)
36. Open carry or concealed carry is illegal in Washington DC, so the act of brining weapons
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:07 AM
Jan 2021

to the capital is a crime itself



 

Klaralven

(7,510 posts)
84. They are backed up by The United States Army Band "Pershing's Own"
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:20 PM
Jan 2021

Plus The Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps

paleotn

(17,989 posts)
11. Very serious
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:45 AM
Jan 2021

Most folks have no inkling of the amount of weapons control within the US military. Live rounds in this context means very serious shit. Also reflects the seriousness of the threat. Once it all comes out, the breath and depth of this conspiracy will shake the country to its core.

Siwsan

(26,295 posts)
16. I heard someone say they are doing exactly that
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:50 AM
Jan 2021

Probably heard it on MSNBC but I don't remember which show.

dware

(12,449 posts)
18. It was reported last night that the Army are
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:50 AM
Jan 2021

doing additional background checks for just such a scenario.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
33. +1. I'm somewhat worried about this
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:02 AM
Jan 2021

as MAGA has infested all branches of our military and law enforcement, although it's far worse in law enforcement. The miltary even if conservative tend to be loyal to the Constitution above all.

I heard there are counter snipers that will be looking out for such scenarios (of rogue cops or troops).

Sad what we've come to as a result of one man.

Hope Biden/Harris/Roberts are behind bullet proof glass.

moonscape

(4,673 posts)
54. Sad how much of this was beneath the surface
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:18 AM
Jan 2021

just waiting for someone like Trump to give oxygen to. He lit the match, but there was a lot more dry kindling around than I realized.

erronis

(15,355 posts)
120. That POS is just the pustule on the body of the (r)epuglicons and people like murdock, mercer
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 02:43 PM
Jan 2021

and all that feed to sores.

Just lancing that boil won't remove the rot. Their media and $$$ power needs to be held in check.

The Fairness Doctrine needs to be reestablished for the new world of cable, internet, and other messaging platforms.

Response to flamin lib (Original post)

in2herbs

(2,947 posts)
15. This might be just magical thinking but if someone, the AG or someone, put out a special
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:49 AM
Jan 2021

news bulletin announcing that the NG will be carrying live ammo and will be authorized to use it at will, will that keep some insurrectionists home?

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
23. Maybe some
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:56 AM
Jan 2021

Others will see this as a challenge, I'm sure.

It would be great if dump threw a revolt & nobody showed up!

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
21. Good! Let's hope they have "permission" to use it, if needed!
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 10:54 AM
Jan 2021

Hoping it will not be nefeseary, but we all have heard stories about how those who sit in high places & send other people's kids into battles often tell soldiers if/when they alliwed to defend themselves.

I've also read that SOME of NG will be armed, not all.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
44. That's what I read.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:13 AM
Jan 2021

Those farther away from Capitol.

Wtf anyone would send troops into battle unarmed is beyond me!

Those who send other people's kids into battle often make odd rules.

dware

(12,449 posts)
31. ...
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:01 AM
Jan 2021
You have to have a military background or be a vet to know how serious this is. They are preparing for an honest to God U.S. vs Paramilitary confrontation.


Yep, those with no military background don't really understand just how HUGE this is.

Now, let's just see how brave these traitors are going toe to toe with armed NG, of which most are combat vets, and other heavily armed security forces deployed in DC and other state capitols.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
37. They need to be prepared to use deadly force
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:10 AM
Jan 2021

against anyone who would breach a predetermined 'line in the sand'. The only thing that stopped the MAGAts from getting into the House floor was that officer in the suit who shot the woman who almost made it through the doorway to the Speaker's Chamber. The other MAGAts there trying to break down the door suddenly had a change of heart and retreated once they realized deadly force would be used - which it should've way earlier before they got inside the building.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
47. Absolutely!
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:14 AM
Jan 2021

And if complicit traitor cops outside had dropped the ones climbing the walls, none of it might have progressed.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
58. Many if not most of the cops appeared complicit IMO
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:20 AM
Jan 2021

from the videos I've seen, just putting on an act like they were 'trying' but really weren't doing anything to actually hold back the crowd.

There are reports that cops even told the MAGAts the office locations of top Congressional leaders.

The guys in suits with their guns drawn are actually higher level/better trained types who have loyalty and were prepared to use lethal force.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
60. Trying? Did they have difficulty opening or holding doors for terrorists?
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:23 AM
Jan 2021

The ones outside, I believe, were in on it.

The ones ineide who were beaten, killed & tortured, not so much.

Although, there was the selfie cop...

getagrip_already

(14,838 posts)
40. unfortunately, this can get out of hand quickly....
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:11 AM
Jan 2021

Remember kent state. That is the reason nat guard units aren't given bullets when facing rioters or protestors.

That is of course different from armed paramilitary confrontation, but the lessons are the same.

A green guard unit is prone to panic, and will fire before even police would. Of course, a lot of guard units have been deployed overseas since the gop wars began, so they may not be green.

But there is still a huge risk here. Civilians will get caught in crossfire or misfires. bullets will fly through windows and doors. Arson will be a tactic and fire fighters may not respond to certain areas. In fact, one of their primary tactics may be just to burn everything they can find. Start so many fires and shoot at so many firefighters that the city burns. It isn't their city. they hate the people who live there. They are discussing it as a reparation for the burning of atlanta.

Urban warfare is never clean. It isn't balanced. And bullets are not going to be enough.

The right thing to do is vacuum these asshats up before they are on-site. Stop them before they organize.

llmart

(15,555 posts)
102. We have a very different National Guard these days.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:58 PM
Jan 2021

During the Kent State fiasco, the National Guard consisted of a lot of men who joined just to avoid the draft. Their training was fairly minimal compared to the National Guard troops of today. They did two weeks every summer out in some remote woods and one weekend a month at the local armory. At least that was the case in Ohio.

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
118. This is nothing like Kent state. It's a unique moment in American history.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:48 PM
Jan 2021

I guess people keep bringing up Kent State as a cautionary tale.

I don’t think any of us can predict with certainty what will happen. I would like to think the number of people who would truly give their life for Trump is meager compared to the size of the American population.

I worry more about the next crop of Timothy McVeighs and domestic acts of terror like the go bombing of the nursery of the Murrah Federal Building.

brooklynite

(94,745 posts)
46. The 2nd Amendment folks claim they need automatic weapons to stop the tyrranical Government...
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:13 AM
Jan 2021

I've always wondered why they don't realize that the "evil government" has massively more firepower than they ever will...

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)
64. They seem to have missed this:
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:29 AM
Jan 2021

Article III
Section 3
Clause 1
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.


If the Founders wanted militias to overturn the government why put this pesky item in the constitution?

Marcuse

(7,517 posts)
80. Amendment 14 is applicable to complicit Republicans office holders; Requires a 2/3 vote to ACQUIT
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:07 PM
Jan 2021
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

sarisataka

(18,779 posts)
56. Unusual but not unheard of
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:18 AM
Jan 2021

I know of some NG that were carrying live ammo while on the streets last summer. It is a sign however they believe there is a legitimate risk of serious violence.

Equally important would be their rules of engagement but I would be surprised if those are made public.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
61. I'd announce live ammo, shoot to kill, etc., too. Rube militias should be under no illusions that
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:24 AM
Jan 2021

security will be weak like last week.

[Maybe somewhat overstated.]

Cinnamonspice

(163 posts)
62. Sad that it's come to this.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:26 AM
Jan 2021

But what is our government supposed to do when people are trying to violently overthrow the government?

Thekaspervote

(32,796 posts)
65. Sad. But necessary! Think about it.... 4 ...FOUR US presidents to be there. Obama, Clinton, Bush
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:35 AM
Jan 2021

And Biden

The terrorists will have made a terrible misjudgment if they try anything

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,045 posts)
66. I wonder if all the militias mobilized will reverse course or damn the torpedos. Maybe they will
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:44 AM
Jan 2021

Maybe they will swell the numbers attacking Silicon Valley HQs, server farms, and state capitals.

randr

(12,417 posts)
67. Our guard troops are there for a good reason
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:44 AM
Jan 2021

The best response to lethal force is overwhelming force.
Bring a gun to a fight you better be prepared to die with it.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,110 posts)
69. Methinks that if ONE shot is fired by the magats
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:47 AM
Jan 2021

there will be a massive loss of life. If "they" don't understand this, they are even more stupid than we thought.

Ingersollman

(204 posts)
70. You
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:47 AM
Jan 2021

are absolutely correct on this. I remember pulling guard duty on an airfield in Germany in the mid 80's. With weapons, but NO ammunition. The only time we were ever issued ammunition with our M-16's was when we bombed Libya, and even then we were forbidden from inserting the magazines in our weapons.
This IS a huge deal.
If the traitorous mob messes around they will be in a world of hurt.

HAB911

(8,916 posts)
73. flamin, posted on my FB page this morning
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:49 AM
Jan 2021

The photo of NGs being issued weapons and ammo in front of our Capitol brought this to mind. Rank and file are NEVER issued weapons unless it is for real. One of the following examples will illustrate why. I was on the DMZ for a year. About three months of that time I was in the secure Message Center, by virtue of the fact I could type, by virtue of the fact I took typing in HS to be closer to the opposite sex, but I digress. My time in the Message Center included a daily courier service to Panmunjom with a pouch containing who knows what. I carried a .45 and my copilot carried an M16. Both were checked at the gate to Panmunjom or officially, The Joint Security Area or JSA and reissued for the return trip to HQ. The weapons were returned to the arms room and reissued each day for the run. No one was ever allowed to walk around with a weapon. Looks like I saved one of those issue cards for your review.

Rank and file are NEVER issued weapons unless it is for real. Other than for official duties as above, I was issued an M16 four times.
#1. Japan Airlines Flight 351. There were no fixed wing aircraft allowed over the DMZ. March 31, 1970 we all heard a jet overhead and saw him go overhead. We could not tell what type of aircraft it was. I vividly remember saying to myself, oh shit. And sure enough we went on alert and were all issued our weapons and ammo. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Japan_Airlines_Flight_351

#2. April, 1970 three North Korean infiltrators were killed and five South Korean soldiers wounded. I happened to have been CQ, Charge of Quarters that night when some ambulances carried some dead bodies out of our compound, thankfully I didn’t see them. Weapons and ammo issued.

#3. One day we went on alert because the North Koreans ambushed some soldiers at JSA. Not a notable incident like the one later in 1976 when they killed two, but it could have been. Weapons and ammo issued. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Korean_axe_murder_incident

#4. Now the point. The grunts that patrolled the DMZ of course were armed, issued and returned daily, as well as forced to empty all ammo at the range when coming off the DMZ. One day, some guy took his M16 back to his barracks and emptied it there. I don’t remember if anyone was killed, but we went on alert, weapons and ammo issued because no one knew what was going on.

Soldiers are as nuts as the general population. That’s why the push to allow weapon carry on military bases is a terrible idea. Truly funny side note. I arrived on the DMZ late on a Saturday night. I was awakened at dawn Sunday morning by .50 caliber fire, lots of gunfire, and assumed I was about to die. It was those grunts empting their weapons at the range. Funny story huh?

Jon King

(1,910 posts)
77. Lets get this over with...
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 11:52 AM
Jan 2021

Come on MAGATS, come get destroyed tough guys. The rest hide in your basements until the new Garland DOJ rounds you up for conspiracy. The way I figure it, we can have a few thousand of these traitors dead or in jail over the next few years.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
78. very dangerous times
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:01 PM
Jan 2021

this type of readiness means very serious business at hand in the next week or so.

Glad to see America is going to have to start sorting out our social problems and the hypocrisy and lies of the last four years of 25000+ or so by just the leader of Insurrection that started on January 6 2021.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
79. When I Was On National Guard Riot DUty In 1966
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:03 PM
Jan 2021

We carried live ammunition but in our pockets. Oh, and we had fixed bayonets' too - along with one vomiting gas grenade and gas masks.

ashredux

(2,609 posts)
97. In 1971 we had one man in each squad with a shotgun
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:42 PM
Jan 2021

All we had were riot batons. The only training we got in crowd control was DONT LOOSE YOU STICK!

iluvtennis

(19,876 posts)
81. This is so sad, but absolutely necessary after the insurrection on 1/6/21. Could all be avoided
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:09 PM
Jan 2021

if trump just came out and said he lied about the election being stolen from him. But we all know the megalomaniac will never do that. This is a very sad time for our country.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,472 posts)
89. This is SERIOUS - the guard WILL NOT be out-gunned by the Insurrectionists, that's rule #1 of the
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:33 PM
Jan 2021

US Military. They will have OVERWHELMING firepower if need be. Command structure is going to be critical for this not to develop into a nightmare scenario.

ashredux

(2,609 posts)
91. The national guard today is not the same as in 1970
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:37 PM
Jan 2021

In 1970 they were not as experienced as the guard today. Few had never seen combat, and most were just in it to avoid the draft. Today, the guard is full of folks with CIBs on their fatigues.

Crowman2009

(2,499 posts)
100. Let's hope the only deaths are from the hastily retreating stampede of y'all Qaeda.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 12:53 PM
Jan 2021

Because once they hear the first shots coming their way, they are gonna retreat faster than the Russian Imperial Army in the first world war. They'll be stepping all over each other in a frenzy. Wouldn't be surprised if their own start shooting at them for retreating.

BrightKnight

(3,567 posts)
103. Armed units are not trained to do crowd control.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:09 PM
Jan 2021

Given the context and threat they would probably just eliminate the threat.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,571 posts)
107. Those clems don't seem to understand that the US military is seriously geared up.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:19 PM
Jan 2021

Do they not know about armour? Helicopters? Weapons with an ungodly rate of fire? If they think they have the remotest chance of a good outcome, they are very, very badly mistaken.

They seem to be determined to not have this end without some serious bloodshed. What they don't seem to get is that most of it will be theirs. Good God this is bad.

JamesJ

(35 posts)
111. Of course they should be armed!
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:23 PM
Jan 2021

Simply, it would be unconscionable to expect soldiers to face these scumbags, who may be armed, without having the means to protect themselves, the Capital and participants in the inauguration.

Bear Creek

(883 posts)
114. Hopefully
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:36 PM
Jan 2021

They are loyal to US and not to trump's version of America. I seen on a news site several days ago that someone posted a video of a military guy saying they were going to send the guard but they considered the rioters as defending the US. I did report the video.
There might need to be a check to make sure the guards there are not part of or sympathetic to them.

ace3csusm

(969 posts)
115. I dont think they will show this time when faced with opposition they back down like snow flakes
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 01:37 PM
Jan 2021

they are bully's, only when they have the upper hand will they engage

liberalhistorian

(20,819 posts)
122. I told my mom and my husband last night that I have
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 04:12 PM
Jan 2021

a really bad feeling about next week, just like I had a bad feeling early last week about the certification process. These people are fucking crazy and Trump has consolidated and streamlined their crazy and given them a cult figure and an outlet and they are NOT going to stop until and unless they are forced to do so and dealt with socially, economically and culturally. I was not at all surprised about the capitol attack, as sad as I was to be right. And we need to buckle up for next week because neither Trump nor his batshit minions are going to take his having to step down, and Biden's inauguration, without a real fight. Trump and these people mean business and they're going to have be given the business in return.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
124. My money is on the National Guard
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 04:22 PM
Jan 2021

Maybe America needs to see the result of Y'all Queda using clubs and flag poles against the Maryland and Virginia National Guard's tanks and machine guns.

Vivienne235729

(3,384 posts)
130. All those shits going to the capital for their little civil war? THIS is their antifa.
Wed Jan 13, 2021, 07:44 PM
Jan 2021

They really need a reality check.

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