General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes anyone think the amount of force on display in DC and state capitals is overdone?
Maybe it is my rose colored glasses or my fond memories of simpler times, but I am wondering how many right wing or other wingnuts there really are that want to come out and go toe to toe with a, now, educated and energized and properly equipped and prepared police presence. I have no doubt that hundreds of thousands on the internet spout off about MAGA and taking back America and whatever else and promise to show up with guns and grit to make it happen. And that even more folks are sadly ignorant of the reality of elections and true meaning of democracy and tolerate the discussion. (Hint: Sometimes your side loses even when YOU don't want that!) But how many really have the guts and wherewithal to do more than type?
But I also wonder, by putting this many National Guard and others on the street, do the wingnuts not still think they won just because they elicited this level of reaction, even if they never show up? And by that, just give them more fuel to perpetuate their evil fire? I am not saying don't push the perimeter out and not secure it with proper fencing and guard it. But something in me says this would be better if the Guard and other reinforcements were not in full view. If they are staged in parking garages and buildings proximate and can react quickly to a threat but not make it look like we are an armed camp, might that not be better? I am glad we reacted and learned, but I always worry about overreactions whether it is an international incident or a domestic one. And I really want to see this evil fire die either for lack of fuel or because we snuff it out. Curious what DUers think.
Quixote1818
(29,013 posts)I have no idea though. I would just trust what the military suggests is needed as they are the ones trained in threats. They are probably showing a lot of force as a statement. Obviously better to be overly prepared than not prepared enough.
TXPaganBanker
(210 posts)They need to be shown that if they show up, they will be crushed. They need to see that their bullshittery will be dealt with as if it's a threat to the nation. It's like a bar bully talking shit all the way up until he gets invited to step in the ring with a pro.
brush
(53,968 posts)Let them know their camo-wearing, rag tag forces with AR-15s are no match for government forces.
kysrsoze
(6,025 posts)they are NOT in control. They need to be visible and ready to go, with packed magazines.
We did nothing when they took over Michigans capitol, and that emboldened them to tear apart the U.S. Capitol. Do you really think hiding the presence of National Guard and other security forces will do anything other than telling them, Come right in, and potentially resulting in a chaotic bloodbath when they converge on D.C and things get out of hand?
We could have prevented a lot of this by having a huge security presence in Charlottesville. These are not good people, and they are looking for weaknesses.
dalton99a
(81,673 posts)It's temporary and necessary.
mahina
(17,734 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)I want a strong message sent that sedition and terrorism will not be tolerated. And I also want these MAGA trash to know what they're really in for if they ever get that civil war they fantasize about so often.
And if they start anything this weekend, I want their bodies stacked in the streets and their blood running in rivers down storm drains.
That's where I'm at with these pieces of human garbage. I'm simply out of fucks to give.
dalton99a
(81,673 posts)Mobs tend to dissolve when they see real bullets
mdelaguna
(471 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,697 posts)Trumpers need a beatdown.
Demovictory9
(32,489 posts)MagickMuffin
(15,976 posts)which is what happened last week by design by the current admin.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)moonscape
(4,676 posts)on the 20th without anything, or anyone, blowing up.
MyMission
(1,855 posts)You also asked "But how many really have the guts and wherewithal to do more than type?"
A lot of those delusional cult members, wingnuts, and militia did have the guts and wherewithal to show up. And a lot didn't show up, regret it and look forward to the next opportunity. And a lot really don't have the guts to do more than type. There are a lot of them. Some have only jumped on the 45 bandwagon (after crawling out from under a rock) to further their own pre-existing racist or anarchist agendas. They are the most dangerous, IMO.
But word is circulating that many are now not planning to riot because they fear it's a trap. Lol The reason they think it's a trap is because of the show of force, which is not a trap but rather a defense.
If force was not on display they'd think they could show their force; they'd walk into the trap and wreak havoc and cause harm before and as they were subdued. I think it's better to show the force, especially on inauguration day. Same goes for state capitals. Fewer groups may show up, but I expect the extremists to engage in extreme behavior in a number of cities, including DC.
Many will be jailed or killed before the rest back down or crawl back under their rock.
Crunchy Frog
(26,701 posts)Straw Man
(6,626 posts)... I think it applies here:
Theyll stay well clear of targets firing back with live ammo. It causes horrible bone spur flare ups.
EndlessWire
(6,573 posts)I like it. I think that it comes up as a precaution. The leaders of the rioters said that they would show up in overwhelming force. If that were to happen, we'd have a chance to defend.
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that we narrowly avoided a truly horrendous massacre. We were so lucky. And, I believe that they absolutely intended to take prisoners and kill a few.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)Rice4VP
(1,235 posts)The Capitol was a soft target
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,031 posts)Magat traitors need to receive this unmistakable message. They will be annihilated if they try any more shit. Fuck these Trump terrorists.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)or might i say Fuck No.
raccoon
(31,130 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)we can do it
(12,210 posts)obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)The fascists need to know that attempting to murder elected officials, overthrow democracy, and overthrow our government, will be met by extreme measures, and is an exercise in absolute futility, which will, without doubt, cause them significant personal and collective harm.
It doesn't matter what deranged fascist terrorist lunatics think, what matters is that know that they will be crushed into oblivion if they ever launch another attack on our country again, and that fascist terrorism will not be tolerated in any way, shape or form in our country.
We will not appease fascists, and we will not repeat the mistakes of the Weimar Republic.
If they don't show up, it means our tactics were 100% successful.
PCIntern
(25,623 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 16, 2021, 09:40 AM - Edit history (2)
If they dare draw weapons on a real militia.
It was very telling that when the Q anon woman was shot all of those revolutionaries in the hallway got real quiet and were scared to death, as well they shouldve been. Theres always a lot of talking big actions implied, but when push comes to shove People turn tail and run as fast as they can.
Im just sorry that they dont have bayonets mounted
XanaDUer2
(10,806 posts)when they saw she was shot, they were suddenly like, uh-oh, shit just got real.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)Ashli crossed it and was shot...she is Air Force and knew better. These people have been coddled IMHO by law enforcement and of course the FBI wasn't allowed to go after them...they were Trump's peeps...but now they must be rooted out and not allowed to commit violent acts.
moondust
(20,019 posts)what they are up against and how ridiculous and futile their racist tantrums truly are.
ProfessorGAC
(65,334 posts)What would have happened had this guard presence existed on January 6?
If you answer "Nothing at all" then it means you understand.
Chainfire
(17,715 posts)We will not allow terrorists to disrupt our government. It is a deterrent, a visible warning to the seditionists, that if they come, they may not leave alive. The criminals who ignore the warning do so at their own risk.
It is necessary after the security failures of last week. I hope that the various states come to the same conclusion and that any attempt of violence is met with overwhelming force.
Karma13612
(4,555 posts)No, and further:
This isnt just a signal to the MAGA insurrectionists. This is also to show the other peaceful citizens in this country and the world that we still have the strength and ability to fight against our domestic terrorists.
I was really scared on Jan 6 2021. I wasnt sure we had enuf force on our side to stand up to the thugs who terrorized our Nations Capital. Now I am more confident.
I also fear Civil War II. I think it might still happen. But at least we will have a National Guard who can help us fight back. We need to keep them well fed and housed properly.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Those crazy thugs will take advantage of any perceived weakness.
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Why should security forces hide and risk drawing the assholes out to play?
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)continues...we need to go after these people arrest them, prosecute them...and work to end domestic terrorism.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,342 posts)credible threats.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)election against those that have used violence and lies to illegally overturn it and are continuing to threaten violence against it is authoritarian?
Shame on you for lacking the ability to think.
This isn't authoritarianism, this is defending against it. This is stopping an illegal and violent, fascist, coup. This is democracy at it's best. This is saying our democratic voices will not be taken away by a fascist criminal and his wounded ego and his mob of terrorist thugs.
This is democracy at its strongest, basically saying, "Fuck with me, and I'll take your head off."
You should be ashamed of what you wrote.
GoneOffShore
(17,342 posts)for the mask 'protests'.
They were armed and dangerous then and it was a test run.
DemocraticPatriot
(4,500 posts)I AM troubled that this has become necessary...
I had read about some of the talk before the occupation of the capital, and thought it was just that-- talk by keyboard commandos. I never thought enough of them would have the guts to actually do it. Well, enough of them had the guts...
Watching the takeover of the capital on TV was surreal, like a weird dream. One minute I was watching the electoral votes being opened, then they paused for debate. I changed the channel for a couple minutes, then came back to a riot on live CBS news...
They have reduced us to this. We DO need this show of force, especially for Inauguration Day.
Happy Hoosier
(7,454 posts)Si vis pacem, para bellum
dutch777
(3,050 posts)My thought line was three fold. First, while I totally agree the ability to quickly squash anything violent or even remotely resembling insurrection and disrupting the peaceful transfer of Presidential powers to Biden/Harris is appropriate and necessary. The second thought was that DC is such sacred ground that I really hate its majesty overshadowed by an overly large visible police presence until that is necessary. And third, and this is my deepest concern, that while we can stand these people off from the ceremony and the Capitol, it does not snuff them out. Indeed they may be like a deep wound that seems to heal over on the surface but festers internally and invisibly but seriously poisons and debilitates the system. So, if it were just me, I would have that overwhelming force but just not linked front and center arm in arm for days but rather as groups of quick reaction forces that can deploy in minutes to anywhere that causes threat in DC.
One could counter, and this is certainly a valid view, that my concept would essentially be using the Inauguration ceremony as bait and as such cause increased risk to the event and moreover, the participants. But deep inside of me I would like to see the bad guys overplay their hand right now, get caught in full daylight and media coverage and prosecuted to the full extent of the law to make a clear statement that there is a line and laws and they will be vigorously defended and enforced.
I worry also, that while Facebook, Twitter, et. al. have belatedly found a moral spine and they are trying to shut down insurrectionist and hate speech, the effort will dissipate. And hunting down and closely monitoring a million or more scattered individuals with potential ill intent across what can become endless new chat networks and even private channels will be a large effort for law enforcement that also will not be sustained or entirely successful. In short, as successful and peaceful as the Inauguration will be, it will, sadly, not be the end of this threat.
lame54
(35,343 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,354 posts)who think the military presence will join their side when the fighting begins.