HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Its not fair to compare T...

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:39 PM

 

Its not fair to compare Trump to Nixon

Because Nixon actually accomplished a lot during his Presidency.

Ended Vietnam
Established SSI
Established EPA
Serious foreign policy wins in Russia and China.
The Nixon Doctrine is still used today when he arm countries instead of directly send troops.

At the end of his first term he was very popular and of course the 1972 election was among the most one sided in history.

Had he not committed the Watergate scandal, he'd be remembered by most as a very consequential president and by many as a very good president.

Trump accomplished nothing and has no. "Wins" to speak of. Every foreign policy decision he made ended up to be bad. NK had a bomb and got a meeting with the president and toms of fanfare for it. China is more powerful, with more allies, than ever. Putin 8s more entrenched in a re-emerging. The EU, NATO, and UN are weakened.

Also, almost everything he did in his entire term will be erased from US policy within months.

When faced with the prospect of dividing the nation for self interest, Nixon resigned and Trump tried to start a civil war.

It's not fair to Nixon, or any President, to compare him to Trump. All of them tried to govern in good faith and while many made sometimes huge mistakes, Trump is the only one who actively tried to end liberal democracy. He should be in a category all his own.

31 replies, 1652 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Its not fair to compare Trump to Nixon (Original post)
BGBD Jan 2021 OP
dawg day Jan 2021 #1
RKP5637 Jan 2021 #4
TreasonousBastard Jan 2021 #2
Yeehah Jan 2021 #3
CentralMass Jan 2021 #7
Yeehah Jan 2021 #14
StevieM Jan 2021 #13
Yeehah Jan 2021 #16
StevieM Jan 2021 #19
nam78_two Jan 2021 #5
Laelth Jan 2021 #6
BGBD Jan 2021 #12
dalton99a Jan 2021 #8
The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2021 #9
FakeNoose Jan 2021 #22
relayerbob Jan 2021 #10
njhoneybadger Jan 2021 #11
Paladin Jan 2021 #15
Eugene Jan 2021 #17
andym Jan 2021 #18
Xolodno Jan 2021 #27
andym Jan 2021 #29
Xolodno Jan 2021 #31
Greywing Jan 2021 #20
FreepFryer Jan 2021 #21
BGBD Jan 2021 #23
Xolodno Jan 2021 #28
Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2021 #24
BGBD Jan 2021 #25
moondust Jan 2021 #26
Rice4VP Jan 2021 #30

Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:46 PM

1. And Nixon, for all his faults, loved his country

Trump doesn't care at all about America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dawg day (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:49 PM

4. Trump doesn't give a SH** about anything but himself, a true sociopathic narcissist. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:47 PM

2. Like a lot of others here, I lived through Nixon and I sort of agree, but...

much of the good he did he didn't really agree with, but saw as politically correct means to get or keep support.

Tough to decide if either of them be immoral or amoral, but Nixon at least knew of "values" and seems to have learned at least something from his Quaker days.

Trump has no values other than greed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:48 PM

3. Nixon did not establish the EPA

A Democratic Congress with a veto-proof majority established the EPA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yeehah (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:56 PM

7. I don't think that is accurate. Nixon did propose the establishment of the EPA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CentralMass (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:30 PM

14. I was there.

It was Democrats who forced an environmental agenda on Nixon. Faced with little choice, Nixon saw a political opportunity and embraced it. Read the full history. Here is a good place to start:

https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/richard-nixon-and-the-rise-of-american-environmentalism

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yeehah (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:27 PM

13. The Democrats did not have a veto proof majority at any point between 1969 and 1974. (eom)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to StevieM (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:32 PM

16. I stand corrected

but it was Democrats who forced the environmental agenda on Nixon.

Nixon was no environmentalist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Yeehah (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:39 PM

19. I am no fan of Nixon, but he wasn't as bad as Reagan when it came to environmental issues.

The all-out assault on the environment, and insane levels of science denial, began in 1981 under the leadership of Ronald Reagan. I think maybe Nixon looks good to some people by comparison.

I think that both men were terrible presidents who our country was far worse off for having elected.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:50 PM

5. Very True

Even if you scoured all the lunatic asylums the world over, it would be hard to find a guy this awful. At least I think the GOP has finally hit rock bottom. It would simply not be possible to find a worse person.
And actually that comparison is really mean to the average mentally ill person, most of whom are likelier to be victims of crimes than perpetrators. At least I recollect having read that that is statistically true. I could be wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:52 PM

6. Nixon was terrible.

It was a highly Democratic Congress that was responsible for the achievements of the Nixon era. Nixon signed the EPA, the CWA, and the CAA because the Democratic Congress would have overridden his veto if he didn’t sign those bills into law.

That said, Trump is demonstrably worse—the WORST President in American history, bar none.

-Laelth

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laelth (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:23 PM

12. Thats not true

 

In the late 1960 both parties were fighting to claim the environmentalist mantle. EPA, NEPA, CWA, etc all had high bipartisan support.

I also remember Al Gore fighting to get around ESA protections for the snail darter so they could build a dam in Tennessee.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:57 PM

8. Donald Trump is a traitor to the United States.

He is in a class of his own

He is the worst president, and the worst kind of president


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:02 PM

9. Nixon was awful. Most of the "good" things he's credited with

happened only because a Democratic Congress made him do them. He wasn't called "Tricky Dick" for nothing; he was dishonest (the "I am not a crook" statement had to do with some attempted tax evasion; he would have been more of a crook if he'd thought he could have gotten away with it), racist and anti-Semitic. And Watergate wasn't just the DNC office break-in; it was all the dirty money being passed around on behalf of CREEP. The comparison with Trump shouldn't include a rehabilitation of Nixon. That said, Nixon did have at least a few lines he wouldn't cross, and he wasn't completely bat-shit crazy. He turned over the tapes when the Supreme Court ordered him to do it, knowing he'd be toast, which is more than Trump would have done. Nixon was very, very bad. Trump is exponentially worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 03:04 PM

22. THIS is absolutely true

So much of Nixon's time in office was seriously *F*'d up.

Remember the oil embargo in 1973, the OPEC boycott when the Arabs and oil exporting countries refused to sell their oil. That was all on Nixon and Henry Kissinger. We had gasoline shortages for almost a year. Remember the long lines, the odd/even days? A lot of people were laid off and businesses closed, it was a bad recession.

Remember those anti-Nixon anti-Vietnam War demonstrations, it wasn't a given that Nixon would be re-elected in a "landslide." Yes that did happen, but only because of the Repuke Party's dirty tricks. The way I remember it, there were at least 3 Democrats who polled highly during the primaries and had a good chance to beat Nixon in the general election. But none of those 3 men (Jackson, Humphrey or Muskie) were the Dem nominee because they dropped out of the race before the convention. Roger Stone and others caused that with their dirty tricks. The Democrats were in disarray and the 1972 Dem convention was a mess. McGovern was chosen at a chaotic convention and Nixon got the political opponent he wanted - a nobody from nowhere. Right around that time, the Democratic Headquarters at the Watergate hotel was broken into, and most of the media ignored the Repukes' corruption and dirty tricks until after the election was over. The entire year 1972 was a nightmare, and there was nothing heroic about what Nixon did to get reelected.

The only advantage that Nixon had over Chump is that he earned a law degree and actually worked as a lawyer before going into government. He had governmental experience in both the executive and legislative branches before becoming President. Chump has always been an empty facade, and it's even doubtful that he actually earned the degree from UPenn that he brags about. I agree with you Nixon was very bad, but Chump is exponentially worse.






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:08 PM

10. Nixon was awful, I remember Watergate all too well.

He was a lot of things, and I certainly was no fan. But he wasn't a grifter, he wasn't a mobster, and he wasn't a traitor.

Trump makes Nixon look like a saint.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:15 PM

11. Trump is the ultimate freak of nature

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:31 PM

15. Nobody ever accused Nixon of being a fucking moron.

I'd take another 4 years with Nixon in a heartbeat, as opposed to 4 more years of trump. It's the difference between awful and psychopathically awful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:37 PM

17. Nixon had a Democratic Congress and a GOP run by sane people to check his worst impulses.

Back then, liberal Republicans were part of the GOP establishment and were active in his administration. In many cases, Nixon's options were to go along or at most go slow.

Nixon was corrupt and bigoted, but he wasn't as open and reckless about it as Trump. Watergate was the end product of a systemic corruption with authoritarian actions. The key difference is, when he was caught, someone could tell him the jig was up.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:38 PM

18. Here they are together



Nixon and Trump share being unethical and amoral.

Some other Trumpian traits in Nixon:
Nixon was a liar: lied about a secret plan to end the war, that he was not a crook, etc.
Nixon touted law and order, as did Trump.
Nixon used the Southern strategy. Trump exploded that into out and out racism and xenophobia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 02:18 AM

27. I can yank several pictures of Bill Clinton with Trump...

....and several other prominent Democrats. Remember, Trump was a "Democrat" at one time, granted, only to help his business. And he donated to Hilary's campaign against Obama.

Nixon lied when it was politically expediate. Trump doesn't know how to tell the truth.

Nixon had the decency to resign. Trump is going out like a cry baby and tried to foment an insurrection to over throw the election.

After Nixon's Presidency, he was always available to future President's as a back channel advisor, Clinton admitted as such after Nixon's passing. Can you imagine, Trump doing the same?

Nixon wanted NO state funeral, but one with minimal pomp and circumstance....I bet Trump has some grandiose plans for himself.

You can't equate Nixon to Trump on simple generalities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Xolodno (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 02:59 AM

29. Your argument is not convincing, Nixon was our first disgraced President

Why? The points I made are not generalities, but SPECIFIC serious problems associated with Nixon's presidency and campaigns. Nixon is roundly considered a disgraced President by historians for many reasons, such as those I listed and of course Watergate. There are so many articles and papers on this topic. Here is one random one for you: https://torontosun.com/news/world/nixon-president-left-office-in-disgrace-and-america-broken

There are so many examples of Nixon's misbehavior that I didn't bother to mention including Nixon's enemies list which led to using government agencies against political opponents and his dirty tricks against Muskie (that removed his strongest potential opponent from contention) and others, more strikes against him. Trump should be considered as Nixonian in terms of unethical behavior, though Trump has shown a uniquely un-American aspect that Nixon lacked wherein Trump's own interests dominate over America's at all times.

That's not to say that Nixon was not effective especially in foreign policy outside of Vietnam. Subsequent Presidents like Clinton valued his intelligence, something that Trump will not be called on to provide.

FYI, I only included the photo as an interesting historical curio. The photo has nothing to do with my thesis, except for the irony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to andym (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 09:07 PM

31. Disagree.

And going to leave it there, just came back from a 5 mile hike.

But I consider Andrew Jackson as our first disgraced President and there is a few after him as well before you get to Nixon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:41 PM

20. Nixon was absolutely horrible - don't try to revise history

During the Joseph McCarthy era he was avid member of the un-american committee. Only denounced McCarthy after Eisenhower forced him to. I was born in 1956 and still remember discussion about Nixon in my extended family when he ran against JFK.

He only ended Viet Nam war as part of a re-election ploy after talking about a secret plan in 1968 to win the election.

I don't compare Nixon to Trump at all. Nixon was horrible in his own right. Trump is indescribably evil.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:42 PM

21. In terms of the destructiveness of their presidential abuses, Nixon is to Trump...

...what coffee is to crystal meth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 03:45 PM

23. This thread is making some waves

 

And upsetting some people....but its just true.

If not for Watergate Nixon would be one of the most popular President's of the 20th century.

Trump is in a category all his own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 02:24 AM

28. Nixon panicked.

And when you panic, you make bad decisions.

Had he came out up front and said he set into motion events that were highly questionable and didn't think they would go that far, but took full responsibility, he would have been golden. Just like Reagan with the Iran Contra affair, he took ultimate responsibility for all that went wrong....and boom, it was out of the news cycle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 03:53 PM

24. Didn't Nixon win a second term?

If so, there's a big difference between the two right there!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 17, 2021, 11:31 PM

25. Nixon won

 

520 electoral votes. He beat McGovern 60.7% - 37.5%. He won 49 states. Nixons approval rating around his second inauguration was almost 70%.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 12:43 AM

26. What did the GOP learn

from the Nixon fiasco?

Never make tapes.

The next GOP administration, Reagan's, was corrupt as hell.

~
"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."
~
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/a_Secular_Issue/Reagan.html

Republicans have had plenty of chances to clean up their act. Never gonna happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BGBD (Original post)

Mon Jan 18, 2021, 03:03 AM

30. Agreed. Plus Nixon wasn't an idiot

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread