Well, fuck, Lawrence O'Donnell is now saying Trump can do secret pardons that we will never know

[Celerity]

about until and if that person is charged with a federal crime that was secretly pardoned (included in this shitbaggery could be a self-pardon).

WTFuckery!

[drray23]

1. its disputed i believe. not at all clear.nt.

[JHB]

2. Anything like that would face immediate SC challenge...

...especially a self-pardon.

[Celerity]

6. how would we know if it is done secretly (other than if/when a person is charged with a related

federal crime)?

[JHB]

30. When he/they invokes it to say "nope, you can't charge me with that"

A "secret pardon", if it exists, would be a "get out of jail free" card. But to get out of jail, you have to play the card.

If a pardon is going to interrupt legal proceedings, it needs to be a known entity. Even if was unpublicized earlier, it has to be revealed to stop things.

[Celerity]

35. Yes, that is what I said. But is there a way to reveal them without charging someone with a crime

that the secret pardon applies to?

[JHB]

39. They'd have to be recorded somewhere. And nothing says the following administration...

...could not make those public.

[msongs]

3. they have no value unless recipient is charged with a relevant crime lol nt

[SheltieLover]

5. Or call3d to testify!

[Irish_Dem]

4. That is what the MSNBC lawyer guests keep saying.

Secret pardons are legal.
There is nothing that says the pardons have to be made public.
They can be issued in secret, then used later as needed.

[C_U_L8R]

7. So how would one prove (or disprove) a secret pardon?

Say Trump shuffles off the mortal coil next week, any old crook could say he/she got a secret pardon.

[Celerity]

8. I've no clue, I posted this hoping for answers from people more knowledgeable than I am on the

subject.

[exboyfil]

9. Notary public like a will?

This could be worse than the Howard Hughes fake wills.

[Irish_Dem]

11. I assume there is an official document. And a way to verify. nt

[StarfishSaver]

12. It would be in writing. Just not released publicly

I don't see any reason it wouldn't be valid, if it otherwise is.

[bobandrileysmom]

13. Can be written on anything?

If I remember correctly, the legal eagles the other night on Lawrence’s show said they don’t have to be formal documents. The pardons can be written on literally anything. Dinner napkins, paper towels, etc. (My examples, not theirs)

[onenote]

25. They really can't be written on anything. They need to be a verifiable document.

And there would have to be a record of it at the White House and/or Department of Justice.

[LiberalFighter]

29. I totally agree. It needs to be documented.

Otherwise, anyone could say they have a pardon from the scumbag.

This is two nites that Lawrence covered these damn pardons. And then asks the "experts" if they can do or that. Personally, I would not cover something until after the scumbag is out of office and he can't do anything.

[BigmanPigman]

10. I have been swearing for the last 10 minutes

when I heard this. Fuck tRump!!!

[sfstaxprep]

14. I Said This Yesterday, And People Said I Was Dead Wrong

I had heard lawyers discuss this weeks ago, and they said exactly the same thing. Perhaps it was the same lawyers, but Secret Pardons supposedly do exist.

[brooklynite]

15. Explain what the value of a "secret" pardon is.

[Celerity]

16. brand protection and shenanigans that can impede federal in investigations and prosecutions by

aiding in the creation of wild goose chases

[dem4decades]

19. You can go about your life. If charged, flash your secret get out of jail card.

Then go about your life.

[brooklynite]

21. Or, you can get a public pardon and go about your life.

[dem4decades]

24. But then the public knows. This helps Trump too. If the public knows

Everyone he pardons it could affect the Senate vote.

[Grasswire2]

27. accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt

..unless no one knows you took one.

[Mike 03]

40. I would guess that, for the time being, one avoids the reputational

damage and embarrassment associated with a public pardon. (These would be most useful to the Trumps and his high profile enablers who have political aspirations, like Nunes, Gaetz, Graham, Johnson, etc..).

[brooklynite]

41. No evidence that Nunes, Gaetz, Graham, Johnson need a Pardon

[bobandrileysmom]

17. Any Federal charges?

I don’t know the deep dive in Federal cases, but are there any charges that can be brought against any of the Trump family, oh say on the 21st, so that any family members who have been pardoned would possibly out themselves? I’m sure if he did pardon them, it wouldn’t look good during the impeachment trial. (Newish here, please be kind if I’ve totally misunderstood this whole process!)

[Celerity]

20. this seems to be an exact benefit of them being secret

EVERYTHING about Trump and to do with Trump is galactic level assbaggery.

Worst human being the US has ever produced. No one else is remotely close in terms of negative systemic impact and real life death and destruction.

[dem4decades]

22. I guess we should arrest all the Trumps immediately and find out.

[onenote]

23. Pardons aren't written on napkins.

They are official documents. There has to be, and is, an official record so that the validity of the pardon claim can be verified. So, the moment he takes office, President Biden can find out what pardons have been granted and, if he so chooses, publicly disclose them.

[Celerity]

26. I hope this is right.

As an aside, a former WH lawyer (pre Trump) who was a pardon expert said they do NOT have to be written out and signed. It can be verbal and recorded.

I do not think that is the case, regardless of what that bloke said.

[onenote]

28. This is what a pardon looks like

[Celerity]

36. yes, I know, I am simply relaying what the ex WH lawyer was saying, ie. that it did not have to

in writing, nor signed (which seems ludicrous to me)

[onenote]

31. There is a specific regulation governing how pardons are granted.

It doesn't require they be made public, but it does require DOJ involvement.

§ 1.7 Notification of grant of clemency.
When a petition for pardon is granted, the petitioner or his or her attorney shall be notified of such action and the warrant of pardon shall be mailed to the petitioner. When commutation of sentence is granted, the petitioner shall be notified of such action and the warrant of a commutation shall be sent to the petitioner through the officer in charge of his or her place of confinement, or directly to the petitioner if he/she is on parole, probation, or supervised release.

[Sgent]

34. That has to do

with justice initiated pardons (regular order so to speak). Presidential initiated pardons do not have to abide by justice department rules.

[onenote]

38. The Arpaio pardon was not DOJ initiated.

But it still has the DOJ seal.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/file/993586/download

[Zorro]

32. I would like to think they won't be kept secret from Biden

I'd hope he'd release the names on any secret pardons on day 1.

[Johnny2X2X]

33. MSNBC always finds the angle to outrage people

Last edited Tue Jan 19, 2021, 09:17 AM - Edit history (1)

They must have searched long and hard for this one. A secret pardon will not be secret for long.

[DeminPennswoods]

42. Exactly

This segment was aimed at eyeball for advertizers that's all.

[Johnny2X2X]

43. 90% of the negative threads here are based on MSNBC

When you stop watching them, it becomes so apparent that they are a 24 hour outrage machine. My wife still watches them, I don't watch any cable news. When we talk about the news I have to take everything she's worried about with a grain of salt because it came from MSNBC.

Not that MSNBC lies like FOX, but they have a negative spin on everything and they find the most obscure angles that just make things seem outrageous on nearly everything. They make money off from it though. The election was over the Saturday after the election, but boy did the cable news service keep it a horse race until 2 weeks ago, most profitable election season ever for them.

Practically everyday during that time my wife was telling me how worried she was that some far fetched thing will be invoked and Trump will remain President. It was never ending.

[DeminPennswoods]

45. Can't disagree with you

I watch MSNBC, but it is definitely geared to fear, anger and outrage. I've started watching CNN more and the difference is obvious.

Chris Hayes, whose show can be really interesting when he delves into policy, has really been on a fear-mongering bent for months. Maddow's show is usually sane, though. O'Donnell's smart and good when he plays it straight, but that doesn't happen nearly often enough.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

37. Secret pardons are garbage

this goes against all the pardons were about.

This pardon thing isn't supposed to be like going to 31 flavors, oh all have one of those and one of those.

It was supposed to right wrongs, Trump is using it for cover for his accomplices, the founders would be rolling over with all his crap !

[LymphocyteLover]

44. I don't buy that

unless the Mofo buries the paperwork and if so, is it a legal pardon?