"Lady" is not equal to "Woman"

[LearnedHand]

Women have asked us to stop saying “lady” when we mean “woman.” Can we please be respectful enough of women to honor that request?

[samnsara]

1. im a woman and i dont find that offensive..whats the opposite of 'gentlemen' then?

[TruckFump]

4. I hear ya.

Using "Lady" does not bother me at all.

In fact, my long-time gentleman friend, who passed away several years ago, would introduce me as his "Lady Friend." I thought that so much more elegant than "girlfriend."

[cwydro]

25. I'm a woman, and as long as no one is referring to a grown woman as a "girl" then lady is fine.

Or woman.

[Claire Oh Nette]

45. This.

I aplogized twice to an old man when I hit his door with mine in the parking lot of my caridology office. He mansplained, "That's not how you close a door, everyone knows that." Told me how to close a car door on a wet day with gloves. I apologized again for not denting, scratching or otherwise marring his car, and thanked him for the nugget of automotive wisdom.

His reply, "Good GIrl."

Long story short, he triggered a dangerous run of SVT. I have an ICD. I have "life threatening v-tach." ICD went off six times in seven minutes. After the third tase, I went down and could only produce primal screams. His response, "Are you OK?"

Bzzzt. Scream. "Do you need help?"

Bzzzt. Scream. Me, "Call 911, asshole. I'm having a heart attack. Proud of yourself?" Bzzzt. Scream.

When I told the nurses, the doctor, and the assorted EMTs what happened, he neither confirmed nor denied what I told them. They turned to him, questioning.
His response?
"Well, I went for help."

Me: You're an arsonist who called the fire department.

The EMTs applauded.

I was there to meet my new cardiologist. Never made it.

Irony alert: he was waiting in the parking lot for his wife who was seeing the... cardiologist.

I hope it haunts him, the sight of a healthy 50 year old dropping like a stone because he want's man enough to accept an apology over a nothing burger.

[ChubbyStar]

54. Your post is confusing

He tased you? Please clarify your post is not clear at all.

[Claire Oh Nette]

70. ICD/tase

And implanted cardiac defibrillator delivers two types of therapy. Pacing, and a shock equivalent to cardiac inversion to reset dangerous arrythmias. My ICD shocked me six times in seven minutes after the encounter with the old man.

I apologized, and he called me, a stranger and a grown woman, "Good girl." My heart rate increased above 170 beats per minute.
...

I said to the cardiologist on call, "This must be what it's like to be tased."

He responded, You were tased. Six times. Same thing.

My body reacted from the ICD shock exactly like someone being tased.

It's the good girl language. Woman is fine. Lady is fine. Girl, from strangers, in a condescending, demeaning, put you in your place way is not.

It was confusing as it happened, as well.

[ChubbyStar]

74. Get a good lawyer

I don't think you have a solid case but knock yourself out. Good Luck.

[Claire Oh Nette]

77. He said/She said...

I spoke to my attorney. I forgot to file a police report while working to not die in the dirty snow in the parking lot.

Next time...

[alphafemale]

95. Bystanders applauded. Where have we heard that before?

From every Internet drama story hero?

[malaise]

44. Trump?

[trueblue2007]

58. I THINK "LADY" is fine and i question who said this. NO POLL and NO facts support you

[lame54]

2. Isn't Dr. Jill Biden the First Lady?

[LearnedHand]

3. I'm not referring to formal usage

I’m referring to generic usage of “lady” to mean “woman.”

[TruckFump]

5. So we should use...

"WOMEN'S ROOM" for the Lady's Room?

[Orangepeel]

11. This post makes me feel old

The Women's Room has been described as one of the most influential novels of the modern feminist movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Women's_Room

[csziggy]

43. Back in the mid 1980s when we built our barn

We originally planned one restroom. Given that many of the existing barns at that time had no restroom, we figured one was enough, but the Building Department had other ideas - they required that we put in two, then that they be labeled for men and women. Since in the nearly forty years that I boarded horses I only ever had one male client (though a few husbands or significant others tagged along) I thought this was ridiculous, but it wasn't worth the argument.

The Certificate of Occupancy was delayed since the inspector objected to no signs on the restroom doors. He insisted that they must be designated for each sex. I was like WTF - the two rooms were identical, one person at a time occupancy since two would be crowded, and it seemed silly to assigned one to each sex. Back then unisex restrooms were not a thing.

So I printed two paper signs - one "Equestrian" and one "Equestrienne" and stuck them on the doors with rubber cement. I made sure to be there when the inspector came back. He sputtered about the "obscure" words but I asked him how different were the correct words for male and female riders than the sometimes silly words used in seafood restaurants (a local one had "Mates" and "Mateys" on their doors and I was never sure if either was for women). He caved. Eventually the rubber cement gave up and the paper pealed off the doors. No one cares - they just use the restroom that is not latched shut.

[StarryNite]

89. Several signs come to my mind regarding your barn.

Fillies and Colts
Mares and Stallions
Mares and Geldings

[csziggy]

90. I deliberatelly wanted something that would confuse the inspector

And it certainly did. But he could not argue with the fact that other public places had ridiculous signs for their restrooms and that the terms I posted were used - though rarely - to differentiate between male and female riders.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. (W. C. Fields)

[alphafemale]

97. It's a way back machine for me too

It's like hearing an objection to something being called a "manhole cover"

Or the plugs used for stereos as Male and Female.

I think very few care about this anymore.

[Claire Oh Nette]

46. Depends whether it's a Meeting or not

[link:

|]

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Your post is the first time I heard this objection.

Where is this coming from?

[LearnedHand]

7. An example discussion of it

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/is-she-a-lady-or-a-woman/

[Stinky The Clown]

8. That's it?

[Demsrule86]

15. Is this like the bible or something? Why do they get to decide well...anything? But you

have the right to your opinion. However, you presented it as a fact which it is not.

[BannonsLiver]

9. This is a very important and pressing problem.

Oh, wait. Actually, it’s not. My bad.

[Irish_Dem]

10. If it is good enough for First Lady Jill Biden, it is good enough for me.

[Demsrule86]

12. I don't find being called lady offensive...so I think you are wrong...what Women?

[NurseJackie]

20. Neither do I... so do I. And... good question.

[Demsrule86]

29. Thanks Jackie!

[LizBeth]

55. I don't like Lady. I never have. I have expressed it though not by throwing a fit, or a demand.

I am not a "Karen" about it. I do understand that words matter and can define and the reason used, and the conditions created.

I know simply having this conversation can dismiss me with a simple, "I am being a Karen". And I feel we have been conditioned to use girl or lady, for an adult person because woman is like too bold or something (old ). I can admit that I too was and am still equally conditioned using lady/girl. For the life of me I could not call a woman peer, woman but was using lady. Why? We would never do that with men. There is a reason for it. Recognizing and acknowledging is merely interesting, not a "must fix now, end of the world" kinda thinking.

There is a reason we use lady, and are comfortable with the usage. Yet we do not do the same with gentleman.
There is a reason we use girl, for a grown woman even in a work environment. And would never use boy.
There is a reason we call little two year old boys "little men" and never baby girls "little woman".

It is interesting. I think it is neat the OP was thinking about this and put out what he did in words. Cool. Not going to bash or dismiss him for being considerate and listening to women or just some women.

[PSPS]

13. LAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Raine]

14. Geesh being called lady is fine with me 🙄

I'm not asking anyone to stop!

[Silent3]

16. "Whoa whoa whoa she's a woman" is, I suppose, a bit more alliterative

And damn, I'd never noticed how sexist the lyrics of this song are before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=x8G4xrYfWmw

[NurseJackie]

17. Meh.

[MineralMan]

18. Well, If "she's the kind you'd like to flaunt and take to dinner,"

then she's a lady? This discussion is really not worth having, I think.

There is a difference between the words woman and lady or women and ladies. However, it's not bad to refer to a woman as a lady, or is it bad to refer to a lady as a woman.

"Lady" is a respectful way to refer to a particular woman you know. "Ladies" is a respectful way to refer to women in an audience when you are addressing that audience. "Ladies and Gentlemen" is a standard opening that is widely used as a means of showing respect to your audience. .

However, when referring to adult female humans as a group, the word "women" is perfectly acceptable. If referring to an individual adult human being in the third person, using the word "woman" is also just fine. It is simply a descriptive noun that carries no particular judgment about the person or group.

Both words are perfectly fine to use, and which one you choose is up to you. In normal usage, however, the two sentences above is a good guideline that will offend nobody.

As for "girls" and "women," my distinction between the two is reaching the age of 18 or having graduated from high school. High school girls and college women, for example.

I'm a professional writer and have been for decades, writing primarily for magazines. Those are the rules I have always followed, and have never received any criticism nor have any of my articles been edited to change that usage.

[StarfishSaver]

19. I am a female who is called both and I really don't care either way.

Probably the same way most men probably don't mind being called "gentlemen."

Not a big deal to me at all.

[Aristus]

21. The titles 'Lady' and 'Gentleman' have their origins in the rigid English class system.

But in democratic America, they have transcended their economic constraints, and refer more to a state of mind. I think the terms 'lady' and 'gentleman' are complimentary and respectful, and have nothing to do with personal wealth or social status.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Beat Me To It!

I think it's a compliment, not a pejorative.
I call the kids in the classes I sub "Ladies & Gentleman". The implication is that I expect them to act accordingly.
Ladies & gentlemen know how to behave in a public setting.

[Aristus]

39. My teacher for my sophomore AP Biology course in high school

insisted on referring to her students as ladies and gentlemen. She treated us with respect, instead of condescension, and that respect was returned.

[Claire Oh Nette]

49. Mr and Miss

I taught middle and high school for 20 years.

They called me Ms Oh Nette. I called them Mr. or Miss whatever their name was. They balked at first. They grew to like it. They rose to the titles. When they behaved like children, I called them by their first names. Very effective classroom management for the 13-17 set.

[ProfessorGAC]

60. That Makes Sense

The first name thing works for me both ways. "Very nice work, John/Jane". Or "John, mask!". Or just the name, then I point to my nose
But, as a group I use L&G.
I'm just a sub, so not an expert, but it works for me.

[Tanuki]

22. Legendary labor organizer Mother Jones (Mary Harris Jones) once said,

"No matter what the fight, don't be ladylike! God almighty made women and the Rockefeller gang of thieves made the ladies."

[Tink41]

81. YES!

This,exactly this. Lady connotes something I can't handle. Meek, wispy, limp wristed, helpless. If someone is addressing the room or group, no offense, but do not under any circumstances call ME a lady. Ugghhh burns my soul!!

[irisblue]

23. which of us females/women/sisters/badasses here on DU asked you to speak out for all of us?

Sitting down and opening my DU mailbox.

Hmmmm....I missed the request memo....

Truly Learned Hand, why today?

[NurseJackie]

26. Excellent reply. Excellent follow-up question.

[Demsrule86]

30. Excellent reply..hehe.

[LearnedHand]

34. Thanks IrisBlue

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and have read a number of thoughtful essays about exactly what Aristus mentioned: The origins of the usage. Why today? TBH, the logic is twisted maybe, but I’m pretty sure the pink-hatted bullhorn woman is not a lady. And that made me remember the reverse of the situation. Also, not claiming to speak for anyone’s personal preferences, just thinking of how heavily laden language can be about women. And like any traumatized person after the past 4 years, maybe I’m overly sensitized to language right now.

[irisblue]

73. Learned Hand, I have a selection of mostly blues, rock and a few pop song ear worms now

So that is a pleasant thing for me.

Would you consider posting your readings, I'm now more curious.
Thanks

[CTyankee]

24. I love the scene in "The Iron Lady" where she says to her co-members of Parliament: "Gentlemen,

shall we join the ladies?"

When I think of Margaret Thatcher I see Meryl Streep in that wig...

[Demsrule86]

33. Did you ever watch Iron Angels...I was never taught in school about how women fought for

the right to votes. I found that movie shocking...I actually lived in Alice Paul's house in Connecticut but was completely ignorant on the subject. I thought women chained themselves to the White House fence a coupe of times and those in power just caved...I never knew about the beatings, the mental hospital and all the rest. After I saw that movie I read extensively about the long fight for the vote. It opened my eyes to how badly history is taught in schools.

[lunatica]

52. In college I took women's history

because I really dislike the American History which is taught normally which seems to be about wars and Acts passed. It’s as if nothing else happened and the people weren’t important.

Women’s history was the best course I ever took about our country, and has opened my eyes to the real American history. It taught about real life struggles and, of course, delved deeply into all of struggles for equal rights of both genders and all races.

[Wounded Bear]

27. I tend to be selective about who I call a "lady", as opposed to woman...

but that's just me. YMMV.

[betsuni]

28. I used to be a member of a women's group that had an online forum and published

a journal. The custom, for some reason, was to refer to members as ladies. It drove me nuts to see the word "ladies" in almost every damn sentence, so annoying. I get annoyed just thinking about it.

It might be a regional thing. Where I'm from only little kids call women ladies. Or if it's a formal title like First Lady or royalty, or in a movie set in New York where the cab driver yells "Hey lady, you getting in or what?"

Don't get me started on how annoyed I am at people who call women "girls." A "young girl" is a small child, not a woman in her early twenties.

[cwydro]

31. Who has asked this?

News to me.

[Iggo]

62. Women. Ain't ya heard?

[EllieBC]

32. I don't mind being called a lady or a woman.

Then again I mostly ignore what is supposed to somehow offend me.

[Mossfern]

35. That's it!

I'm now on a new campaign to de-stigmatize the word "lady."

How silly does "women who lunch" sound compared to "ladies who lunch."
This 72 year old female needs something to distract me from the pandemic, this can help.

Honestly, I had a friend who used to get so insulted if someone dared to call her a lady - she though it was demeaning.

[NurseJackie]

41. How did your friend feel about Ma'am? That apostrophe is a "d".

Or Mrs? I don't mind being "Mrs".

[Mossfern]

48. I don't remember her reactions to Ma'am.

But I do remember how horrible I felt the first time someone referred to me as that. I thought "that's it, I'm official old now". I was in my 20's.

My friend was single, but would insist that because she held a PhD that she be referred to as "doctor" even if it wasn't in a professional setting. I witnessed her terse reply after filling out a form and giving it to a receptionist, who asked if she preferred "Ms, "Mrs.", or "Miss"- her response was "I prefer to be called Doctor" in a condescending manner. I'm sure that the office staff had a good giggle about that later.

I only wish that life was so uncomplicated that my biggest worry was about how people address or refer to me. Hell, I'll even answer to "hey you!"

[NurseJackie]

53. I prefer the formal. It shows respect.

It makes me cringe every time I'm in some doctor's office and the assistant or receptionist calls me by my first name. If they want to have a casual "everyone on a first-name basis" within the office and among their staff, that's fine. But with patients, it should be a bit more formal. Even with doctors who are better than HALF my age, I don't call them by their first names. They've worked for their degree and title... and deserved to be recognized for it. Even when the receptionist has only his/her first name on the name tag (or first-name-last-initial) I'll use a quasi-formal "Mr. Steve" or "Ms. Betty" when addressing them or referring to them.

I guess I'm just conservative in things like that.

But I do remember how horrible I felt the first time someone referred to me as that. I thought "that's it, I'm official old now". I was in my 20's.

I was prematurely gray, and started getting "senior discounts" in my 40's. I figured... HEY! This is nice! 10% here 10% there. It all adds up.

[Mossfern]

83. I don't mind my doctors

calling me by my first name. My husband refers to his doctors by their first name and they don't seem to mind. Funny, even though I've had close and long relationships, I still use the "Doctor" addressing them. It makes me feel better some how. If I try to analyze that, maybe I feel more confident about using the formal title for doctors because their professional title makes me feel more confident of their abilities to diagnose and treat me.

When I was Mayor of my town, I preferred that people address me by my first name rather than Mayor Mossfern. I guess whatever makes you comfortable. I want people to respect me, and I respect others because we're all in this mess called Life together and professional title, educational degree or anything else doesn't make some more worthy of respect than others.

I don't know who made "lady" a pejorative, but I just find that silly.

[Vinca]

63. I hope she never learns about one of the most famous American potteries:

"The Saturday Evening Girls." LOL.

[MyNameGoesHere]

36. I don't say anything gender things related anymore.

Just use blank. Blank said hello. Blank went to the movies. Makes it a lot easier. My blanks, blank is into coding. See it's easy.

Ot should that be Blank, Blanks blank is into coding?

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Well, That's Way Easier!

Except for the part where none of us would know what anybody else is trying to say!

[MyNameGoesHere]

57. Blank Know right?

[Tech]

40. I took a woman's history class in the late 70's which had a whole section on this.

At the time it was considered derogatory. We were fighting for equality then, and we still are now. I wonder why it is taking so long.

[LearnedHand]

42. And he who must not be named certainly did all he could to set women back to the 50s

He is an expert language manipulator, which is why I feel so much more sensitized to language use right now.

[Mossfern]

51. It's taking so long maybe because

of distractions of minutia.

[LizBeth]

47. That is so very nice. Thank you. I have felt it for decades but have only nicely been asking

for like two decades. Lol. I risk being a Karen asking. Lol. Isn't that something. I do not need to be called a girl so I feel youthful, or a lady that conforms to the niceties expected of her from society. Simply an adult person. Thank you. That was nice to read.

[treestar]

50. Which women?

This is making up something to be offended about.

[Vinca]

56. Sorry, but that's ridiculous. I'm a woman and I hope a lady. Why don't people concentrate on

things that are really important? Jill isn't known as the First Lady because it's offensive.

[NurseJackie]

59. 🎵 Lady... 🎵

[Hekate]

84. Thank you Nurse Jackie! Love these selections.

[Billytee]

93. My vote's for Dylan.

As far as the OP's question....com'on people.

[Iggo]

61. Where? When? Who?

[Lady Freedom Returns]

64. I'm a Lady and no one better forget that.

If you don't like it, Queen works too. 👑

[Meowmee]

69. Yes

👸🏻

[Raine]

87. Absolutely! 👍 🙂 nt

[mtnsnake]

65. This isn't a Tarzan movie..."Me want Woman." Sometimes, "Lady" sounds way nicer than "Woman"

Like if I'm about to say "so long" to a friend I've been talking to who I haven't seen or talked to in a long time, and if that friend is not married but has a female for a partner whose name I don't know or don't remember.......then, upon parting with him, I'll say something like "Say hello to your Lady for me" rather than "Say hello to your Woman for me."

In an instance like that, "Lady" sounds much more appropriate than "Woman" which would sound like something out of a Tarzan movie. "Lady" is just a better choice sometimes.

[hamsterjill]

66. Which women have asked this?

Either term is fine with me.

[obamanut2012]

67. As well as "female" -- female is an adjective

[Meowmee]

68. Lady is fine by me

I have not heard of it being considered disrespectful.

[pnwmom]

71. I'm another woman who doesn't mind being called lady. For example, if a stranger

was trying to get my attention, it wouldn't bother me to hear him say, "Hey, lady!" In fact, I'd prefer it to "Hey, woman."

And ma'am, which isn't used much in my city, is just a shorter version of madam, so that's really no better, either.

[mtnsnake]

72. So what did you think of Woman Gaga's rendition of the National Anthem the other day?

That is not an easy song to sing, but I thought she nailed it pretty good.

[frogmarch]

75. As a woman, "lady" is fine with me

What really gets my goat is men who are assholes being called gentlemen, as in, "When I reached the gate, two gentlemen jumped out of the shadows and raped me."

[Lady Freedom Returns]

76. Adding some to this thread. Being called a woman can be an insult.

I lived in an area of this country where it was used to remind you of your place. "Get me my dinner woman" , "Clean my shirt woman".

I can NOT personally look at it as being a respectful thing to be called.

[ProfessorGAC]

80. I Thought That, Too

But, I didn't comment, because I'm a guy, so I wasn't sure I had the right POV.
But, I do know that if I said "Hey, woman" to my wife, she'd think I'd lost my marbles.

[NurseJackie]

78. So I says, "that's no lady... that's my WIFE!!"

[Dagstead Bumwood]

79. Can we get an exemption if we say it in a Jerry Lewis voice?

Never mind, that probably just makes it worse.

[Hekate]

82. Have we? Asked that, I mean?

What are you talking about?

[Progressive Jones]

85. No woman in my universe has ever made this request. nt

[Totally Tunsie]

86. All ladies are women, but not all women are ladies.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

88. Some of us are Queens.

👑👸

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

91. And some are Dames ...

[Bucky]

92. It's ridiculous to try and police the use of language in every instance.

I have never had a woman ask me to not refer to her as a "lady." And not just because all women just LOVE my Jerry Lewis impression. It's silly to think that all women are of a single monolithic opinion on this topic, as the OP implies. If someone asks me not to refer to her as lady, I'd happily comply. But reengineering the whole English language over a rare opinion is flaky.

[mtnsnake]

99. Well said. nt

[msfiddlestix]

94. I'm an Old Lady and have never made that request

Nor have I ever heard any of my many women friends express offense.

I've been referred to as a Femin-Nazi by Limpball followers, I have been referred to as a effing C***.

Those are offensive words. I'm as fond of the word Lady as I am the word Woman.

Let's not go down the road looking for and making something benign as the word Lady as offensive.

Seriously folks... please. Let's not do this.

[NNadir]

96. I rather like being called "Gentleman," and often address my sons and coworkers as such.

I address my wife as lady sometimes.

I have never regarded "gentleman" or "lady" as anything but indications of respect.

[alphafemale]

98. F.W.O.T.U.S.

Sounds silly when pronounced.