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Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:12 PM

Even Claire McCaskill says Schumer should exercise the nuclear option now

Last edited Mon Jan 25, 2021, 11:53 PM - Edit history (1)

EDIT: On Rachel Maddow's show it was announced that the Senate will move forward with adopting an organizing resolution. It appears Mitch may have caved, but we should also see what the organizing resolution says.


Original post below
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Claire McCaskill is not my favorite Democrat. However she said something on Nicole's show today that I have been saying for days: Schumer should get Democrats to exercise the nuclear option on the Organizing Resolution:

Claire:
The practical problem is that Chuck Schumer doesn't have 50 votes to change the rules on filibuster. He doesn't have the 50 votes. And McConnell knows it. So this is going to create an impasse until --- What I think needs to happen --- This is just my two bits. I think Chuck needs to use the nuclear option to change the rules to allow the organizing motion to be privileged, and therefore it doesn't need 60 votes, like reconciliation like a few other things. Because if Mitch McConnell is not gonna allow them even to organize the Senate, then they gotta rap him on the knuckles hard. And while they may not have the votes to blow up the filibuster right now, I think they would have the votes to let the Democrats take over the chairmanships they earned. So that to me is the way forward. In my opinion, the sooner they get at it, the better.

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Reply Even Claire McCaskill says Schumer should exercise the nuclear option now (Original post)
servermsh Jan 2021 OP
SunSeeker Jan 2021 #1
BComplex Jan 2021 #2
Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #12
SunSeeker Jan 2021 #43
Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #53
SunSeeker Jan 2021 #54
Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #55
SunSeeker Jan 2021 #58
ancianita Jan 2021 #59
Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #60
ancianita Jan 2021 #61
Fiendish Thingy Jan 2021 #63
ancianita Jan 2021 #65
Bev54 Jan 2021 #27
SunSeeker Jan 2021 #38
Bev54 Jan 2021 #45
NCDem47 Jan 2021 #3
mcar Jan 2021 #41
Laelth Jan 2021 #4
comradebillyboy Jan 2021 #5
BlueSky3 Jan 2021 #9
Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2021 #6
SharonClark Jan 2021 #7
Karadeniz Jan 2021 #17
bottomofthehill Jan 2021 #29
Karadeniz Jan 2021 #32
bottomofthehill Jan 2021 #35
Karadeniz Jan 2021 #57
StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #64
bottomofthehill Jan 2021 #66
StarfishSaver Jan 2021 #67
MontanaMama Jan 2021 #8
mcar Jan 2021 #46
themaguffin Jan 2021 #10
Thekaspervote Jan 2021 #11
moonscape Jan 2021 #36
bucolic_frolic Jan 2021 #13
W_HAMILTON Jan 2021 #14
Celerity Jan 2021 #28
ancianita Jan 2021 #15
mcar Jan 2021 #47
George II Jan 2021 #16
servermsh Jan 2021 #19
George II Jan 2021 #21
servermsh Jan 2021 #22
jcgoldie Jan 2021 #25
mcar Jan 2021 #48
Post removed Jan 2021 #18
Post removed Jan 2021 #20
lpbk2713 Jan 2021 #23
orangecrush Jan 2021 #24
TimeToGo Jan 2021 #26
bottomofthehill Jan 2021 #30
Iggo Jan 2021 #31
Bettie Jan 2021 #33
Post removed Jan 2021 #34
grantcart Jan 2021 #37
mcar Jan 2021 #49
mcar Jan 2021 #39
Eyeball_Kid Jan 2021 #40
NoMoreRepugs Jan 2021 #42
mcar Jan 2021 #50
mvd Jan 2021 #44
kentuck Jan 2021 #51
Mr. Sparkle Jan 2021 #52
Celerity Jan 2021 #56
ancianita Jan 2021 #62
BobTheSubgenius Jan 2021 #68

Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:16 PM

1. They have no choice, they must jettison the filibuster to get stuff done, or they'll lose in 2022.

It's plain as day.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:19 PM

2. They have to bide their time for that, but Schumer needs to get the nuclear option done

so they can at least get on with committee chairmanships and cleanup issues.

Plus, by a 1 person majority vote, they can change the rules so that any filibuster needs to have a person talking non-stop and BE IN THE ROOM.

That can be a simple rule change. If the republicans want to filibuster, they're going to have to pay the physical price for it.

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Response to BComplex (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:38 PM

12. It's not that simple- the rule change vote is simple majority, but the motion to proceed isn't

Before a floor vote on a rule change can happen, a Motion To Proceed must pass, and that is subject to filibuster.

The filibuster, in all shapes and forms must be dead, dead, dead, twelve ways to Sunday, no exceptions, no excuses.

The stakes are too high.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #12)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:45 PM

43. Then how was McConnell able to ditch the filibuster without a supermajority vote? nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:04 PM

53. He used a parliamentary maneuver to shut down debate, but more importantly, had 51+ votes. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:05 PM

54. We have 51. Why can't we do the same?

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #54)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:06 PM

55. We do not have 51 votes to kill filibuster- we don't even have 48 votes. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:26 PM

58. Schumer just needs to nail down Sinema and Manchin, then we have 51 with Harris.

Republicans have made it clear they won't vote for the covid relief package Sinema's and Manchin's constituents desperately need. If Schumer can't convince those two of the need to get rid of the filibuster so we can rescue the American people, maybe some other Dem should be Senate Majority leader.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:28 PM

59. Wait, I thought the 117th is 50-50, right? And Harris (?) would break vote ties?

What the heck were we all crazy about the GA vote for, if not that? And we could get at least one reasonable Repub to join us, right? Schumer is the majority leader for a reason, so...
What am I missing?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:39 PM

60. The senate is currently organized under rules adopted on January 3

Before Dems won the majority, so Republicans chair committees, not Dems, and can block legislation from moving to the floor.

Rules can be changed with a simple majority vote, however, the Motion To Proceed to a floor vote can be blocked by filibuster.

Schumer could use a parliamentary maneuver to force a floor vote on changing the rule on filibusters so a new organizing resolution could be voted on, but he doesnít have 50 votes, as 2-3 Dem senators opposed changing the filibuster rule, even if just for the organizing resolution.

So, at the moment, Schumer is majority leader in name only, and with the filibuster intact, has very little power to do anything.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #60)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:43 PM

61. If this is the case then it's been a trap and the nuclear option is the only way out of this.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:48 PM

63. Yes, it is- only the timing is up for debate

Go nuclear over the Organizing Resolution, which few Americans understand, and it will likely fail.

Go nuclear over the COVID relief bill, which every American understands, and thereís a better (but not guaranteed) chance of getting Manchin and Sinema on board.

Manchin and Sinema would both have more power and influence without the filibuster, so I am mystified why they oppose killing it.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 10:24 PM

65. Good. The timing is to overturn the Organizing Resolution. There's got to be ONE country over

party Repub in that group -- say, Romney. Sell the power gain Sinema would get. Sell McCain on switching parties. Anything.

Looks like it's breaking right now that McCONNELL HAS CAVED.

So I guess our worries are moot??

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:34 PM

27. Yes I agree but

not sure they have the votes with Manchin and Sinema. Somebody needs to get in their heads about this, start calling their offices asap.

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Response to Bev54 (Reply #27)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:43 PM

38. Schumer needs to whip his caucus, in every sense of the term.

Time for Schumer to play hardball.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:47 PM

45. Biden may have to get involved and meet with them

they likely are attention seekers who need to be coddled.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:22 PM

3. Good God. Just get it done.

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Response to NCDem47 (Reply #3)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:45 PM

41. How?

Be specific.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:25 PM

4. I agree. k&r n/t

-Laelth

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:27 PM

5. What exactly is the nuclear option?

I keep seeing called for but I donít know what it is.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:27 PM

6. Moscow Mitch will obstruct as long as he is given the power to do so. He's working the press.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:28 PM

7. McCaskill's insight into process is very important.

Iím always glad to hear her on MSNBC because sheís tired of the bullshit and wants to get things done.

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Response to SharonClark (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:57 PM

17. I wasn't a huge fan when she was a senator... but what did I know...but on MSNBC I love her

Commentaries and explanations, like you.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:41 PM

29. Maybe not a big fan but she was beaten by Josh Hawley

Clearly, she was way better than that.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:58 PM

32. OMG...I didn't realize the voters of Missouri fell for him! Actually, I do. He puts up a good facade

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #32)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:26 PM

35. I would rather have any democrat over a Republican.

Manchin, Senima, although we canít totally rely on them, we know how the vote would be if their seat was held by a Republican.

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #35)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:23 PM

57. True!

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:48 PM

64. One of the reasons she was beaten by Hawley was that too many Dems thought she was too moderate

and refused to support her.

This is the result of mindless purity tests.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 10:30 PM

66. Agreed, and we would be so much better with her there.

She is clearly too moderate for Massachusetts, but she was as good as we were going to get in MO

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Response to bottomofthehill (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 10:32 PM

67. Exactly

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:29 PM

8. The US Sentate has turned into

an overpaid bunch of do-nothings thanks to Republicans, McConnell and their criminal obstruction. GET THIS DONE.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:47 PM

46. How?

Be specific. Thanks.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:34 PM

10. I agree, but I don't like the term "nuclear option" which makes the Dems look like the extreme ones.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:34 PM

11. Schumer is in a tough spot, it isn't him. Sinema, Manchin and maybe Feinstein

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #11)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:28 PM

36. She was talking about a way to require a simple

majority in order to organize the Senate, not to eliminate the filibuster for which we donít have tthe votes.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:49 PM

13. It's done not much for us lately. GOP got what they want. Let's not give them tools to block us.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:53 PM

14. McCaskill has been pretty damn awesome as a commentator.

I get the feeling that a lot of her, let's say, Manchin-like antics while she was senator was due to her having to hold back to win in a super-red state. Now that she no longer has that problem, she doesn't really hold back and is actually much further left than I first thought. I remember her, in her role as commentator, telling her former colleagues -- at the time I believe she was directing it towards Republicans to do the right thing in regards to something Trump-related, maybe impeachment -- that losing your seat, ESPECIALLY if it's due to doing the right thing, is not the end-all be-all. There is life after politics, she said.

I hope she gets on the phone with Manchin and any other holdouts from our side that are reluctant to engage in filibuster reform and drive home this point.

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:35 PM

28. so true, I think she by nature is far more liberal than Manchin and (now gone) Heitkamp,

Donnelly, etc.

Sinema is hard to figure out, she could be another McCaskill I think, as she was far more left early on and morphed into a semi-conservative centrist (she voted with Trump as much as Manchin, those two far more than any other Democratic Senator still there), BUT Sinema has by far the highest plus/minus score of any Dem Senator, meaning she voted more with Trump than her State would predict, for example she is almost full 61 points higher than Tester, a plus 10.6 versus a minus 50.3. As for McCaskill, she was a minus 37.2, so Sinema is around 48 points higher than her).

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/

Ignore Lummis, she was only there for a few votes in January 2021, and is a RWNJ in reality




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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:54 PM

15. She is absolutely right. Dems need to stop giving a damn what anybody says about them.

I don't know why we don't have a 50 vote, or who it is we can't depend on, but this nuclear option is a rule, and so we should use what helps our legislative progress.

from wikipedia (thanks, BlueSky3)
The nuclear option is a parliamentary procedure that allows the United States Senate to override a standing rule of the Senate, such as the 60-vote rule to close debate, by a simple majority of 51 votes, rather than the two-thirds supermajority normally required to amend the rules. The option is invoked when the majority leader raises a point of order that contravenes a standing rule, such as that only a simple majority is needed to close debate on certain matters. The presiding officer denies the point of order based on Senate rules, but the ruling of the chair is then appealed and overturned by majority vote, establishing new precedent.

This procedure uses Rule XX to allow the Senate to decide any issue by simple majority vote, regardless of Rule XXII, which requires the consent of 60 senators (out of 100) to end a filibuster for legislation and 67 for amending a Senate rule. The term "nuclear option" is an analogy to nuclear weapons being the most extreme option in warfare.


Let them scream to hell and back.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:47 PM

47. How will they accomplish this without 51 votes?

Be specific.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:55 PM

16. Why "even" Claire McCaskill?

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 06:59 PM

19. Because she was one of the most conservative Democrats. n/t

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Response to servermsh (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:07 PM

21. She IS a Democrat, not "was" a Democrat. Again, she IS a Democrat.

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Response to George II (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:08 PM

22. n/t

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Response to George II (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:13 PM

25. They obviously meant was one of the most conservative democrats IN THE SENATE

Everybody here including you knows that was what was meant.

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Response to George II (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:48 PM

48. Right?

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Response to servermsh (Original post)


Response to servermsh (Original post)


Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:09 PM

23. Turkey neck has already said he would be an obstructionist.



He will never change. Do whatever needs to be done and piss on him.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:11 PM

24. Nuke the obstructionists



Let them feel some of the pain we have felt for the last 4 years.


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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:18 PM

26. So, this is the thing

What do republicans and the media think should happen? What is the right way for democratic senators to deal with McConnell? What's the "good" way?

There isn't - because McC is the bad guy here. He's the same as Trump after the election.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:44 PM

30. Yes, but lacking 2 democratic votes, there is nothing he can do.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:47 PM

31. Good. We need her vote.

Thanks, Manchin. (You too, Sinema.)

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 07:58 PM

33. So, if McConnell won't give in and Shumer won't

or can't do anything about it, what happens? Do Republicans keep the chairmanships and numbers advantage on committees?

Does Moscow Mitch just get to keep running the whole show because two Democrats can't be bothered to show unity with their party?

What are they offering Manchin and Sinema to obstruct?

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Response to servermsh (Original post)


Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:28 PM

37. You ignore her first sentence

"The practical problem is that Chuck Schumer doesn't have 50 votes to change the rules on filibuster. He doesn't have the 50 votes"


He doesn't have the votes.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #37)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:49 PM

49. Thank you

These people are driving me mad.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:44 PM

39. How can he do this

without 50 votes? Be specific.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:45 PM

40. Schumer must tell Manchin and Sinema:

You will ensure that the Dems WILL BE DEFEATED IN 2022 if the Dems do not eliminate the filibuster. Period. Do not mince words. Put the responsibility directly on their shoulders.

In addition, Schumer must offer a carrot as well as display a stick. He must offer them something in return, such as legislation very favorable to their constituents.

This cannot fail. Schumer wanted to be majority leader. Here we are.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:45 PM

42. Democratic Senators displaying any disloyalty have to go.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #42)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:49 PM

50. Where should they go? When? How?

Be specific.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:46 PM

44. She does seem better as a commentator

Makes me think being Senator from Missouri held her back to some extent.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:51 PM

51. They would need at least 51 votes.

They don't have them.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 08:56 PM

52. no filibuster vote from Joe, no chairmanship. Suck it up Joe!

a nuclear option would put less pressure on those 2 or 3 wobbly Democrats not to end the filibuster.

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Response to Mr. Sparkle (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:19 PM

56. It is now not just Manchin, Sinema is now also on record saying no, and Feinstein always was a no

as well, at least up until now.

Sinema joins Manchin as being on record as against ending the filibuster

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215005932

snip



There may, may, be others too (perhaps Angus King, Mark Kelly, Bennett, Warner, Kaine, Tester, Booker, and Gary Peters, who have all said no in the past, although some have at least come around to considering it).

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 09:45 PM

62. We should get off here, get over to social media and start swarming Schumer. I just all capped

him on Facebook and got 10 likes right away.

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Response to servermsh (Original post)

Mon Jan 25, 2021, 11:50 PM

68. This subject is way more complicated thatn I thought.

And I thought it was pretty complicated already. Reading through this thread was a great education, in that it clearly showed how many of the arcane rules and procedures I know nothing about.

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