Brexit and COVID have slammed the not-so-United Kingdom. Its survival may be in danger (LAT)

[dalton99a]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-01-27/disunited-kingdom-brexit-covid-pandemic-uk-breakup

Brexit and COVID have slammed the not-so-United Kingdom. Its survival may be in danger
By Christina Boyle
Jan. 27, 2021



LONDON — After fulfilling his lifelong dream of becoming prime minister a year and a half ago, Britain’s Boris Johnson invented an extra title for himself: minister for the union. The new badge was meant to showcase his dedication to strengthening the bonds among England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which together make up the United Kingdom.

Johnson also pledged to “get Brexit done,” which he did by the skin of his teeth, with the U.K. striking a last-minute trade agreement with the European Union before pulling out fully from the club Dec. 31.

But what was supposed to help bring an end to the bitter domestic divisions that Brexit unleashed has only served to sharpen them. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted against leaving the EU in 2016 but were powerless to stop it. Many of their residents feel shafted anew by the trade deal, their resentment toward Johnson’s government in far-off London on the rise.

Add that to widespread criticism of his handling of the pandemic — Scotland’s leader is deemed to have done a better job — and Johnson is now having to face an uncomfortable question: Could this self-styled minister for the union be reading its last rites instead?

If Michael Sturrock of Edinburgh is any indication, Johnson’s desire to keep the four regions of the U.K. (Britons call them the “four nations”) welded together is in real trouble, with a disunited kingdom in danger of becoming a disintegrated one.

Sturrock, 26, was among the 55% of Scottish voters who opted for Scotland to remain a part of the U.K. in a 2014 independence referendum. But he never imagined at the time that staying in the U.K. would lead to his being dragged out of the EU against his will.

Now he’s in favor of Scotland going its own way. In an unprecedented development, at least 18 successive polls in recent months have shown a plurality or a majority of Scottish residents agreeing with him.

[Turbineguy]

1. Brexit

One of Putin's many successes.

[bdamomma]

29. oh yes,

it's a twofer, the UK and US.

But with any luck the protesters in Russia will not stop.

[malaise]

2. Hope I'm alive to see them turn into an impoverishes island

like those they created across the planet. The sun has set on that empire.
I cheer for the ghosts of my enslaved ancestors

[OnDoutside]

5. They've never come to terms with losing the empire. In fact, I would suggest part of the reason

for voting for Brexit, was the romanticised propaganda of taking their Empire back. They might find this time that the natives have a lot more than rocks and spears !!! Maybe they need to go through this, because they have never had that conversation with themselves. Particularly, the History taught in British schools glosses over much of the downside like the Irish War of Independence etc. I feel there is a harsh lesson on the way, but maybe it's one that needed to happen and one day they will emerge all the better for it.

[malaise]

6. You are correct - all those Eton, Winchester and St Pauls boys yearn for empire

as do the Oxbridge racists.

[Dawson Leery]

9. The natives have nuclear weapons.

[OnDoutside]

14. Hold onto yer hats, lads !

[Drahthaardogs]

17. No one has ever practiced slavery like the Brits

Their cruelty is unprecedented

[dlk]

3. Johnson is Trump lite

[OnDoutside]

4. I fear the Shinners will drag us into another Civil War. Whatever the merits of uniting the island,

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2021, 04:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Sinn Fein only care about their number one goal, a United Ireland. They will do anything to achieve that, including barefaced lies and deceptions. As a Republic of Ireland citizen, I'm ok with where the ROI/NI relationship is now. Forcing the Unionists into a United Ireland is fraught with danger, when they clearly aren't ready and the relationship between the extremes of both sides is as hateful as it ever was, but just bubbling beneath the surface in an uneasy truce. They're a heck of a long way off from coming to a UI in a spirit of friendliness. If I was a Unionist, I wouldn't trust that a Shinner/Nationalist majority wouldn't take retribution out on the Protestant minority (as it would be). As a Southerner, I don't want to draw that shitfest on to us. And that's aside from the huge economic cost. In any case it's 100 years anniversary in 2022, and the difference in mindset between North and South is huge.

And the consequence of a Scottish Independence referendum passing, is massive pressure piled on the UK Government to hold a Border Poll in the North. It wouldn't be the first time a British Government just threw their hands up and walked away, leaving a trail of destruction behind.


EDIT : For Clarity, Shinner is an informal term here in Ireland. The literal pronunciation of the word Sinn in Irish is "Shin" !!! Actually Fein is pronounced "Fain". In the same way other parties have their name shortened eg

Fianna Fail (Failers, actually Fail is pronounced Fawl, so Fawlers),

Fine Gael (Gaelers, Gael is pronounced "Gale" in Irish).

[roamer65]

7. Yeah. India...Partition Day, 1947.

The British government walked away and let a slaughter happen.

My prediction is in 5 years, Ireland will be united and Scotland will be an independent nation with EU membership and in the Eurozone.

I read Plaid Cymru in Wales is gaining considerable support now as well.

[OnDoutside]

12. Yes, and much of the colonial countries in Africa. If you asked me in the 80s, who wanted

Independence more, Wales or Scotland, I would have said Wales by a mile. With their pride in their heritage, music, culture and language, and above all their hatred of the English at rugby internationals (!), funny how it didn't work out like that. I think a lot of the depressed nationalism in Wales is due to so many English people living there, who obviously wouldn't be interested in breaking away from England.

p.s. I just saw this on BBC news

Brexit: Police monitoring 'growing unionist discontent'

Police are monitoring "stress" and "growing discontent" within unionist communities over the Irish Sea border.

Assistant Chief Constable Mark McEwan told MPs the health pandemic may be "moderating people's behaviour in terms of the desire to protest".

Mr McEwan was giving evidence to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.

He added: "Were we not in this current environment we would probably see a more visible outworking of that on the streets."

He said signs of discontent in the "Protestant, unionist, loyalist community" is being seen in graffiti and on social media platforms.

The Irish Sea border came into effect as a result of the Brexit deal struck between the UK and the EU in December.

Northern Ireland has remained part of the EU's single market for goods while the rest of the UK has left.

Before the pandemic took hold, the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) had warned of possible street protests and attempts to disrupt ports.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55827679

[flotsam]

15. I thought we didn't allow denigrating terms here?

Shinner may refer to: A pejorative term for a supporter of Sinn Féin, a political party in Ireland. Sometimes erroneously used as a term for the Irish Volunteers, due to their association with Sinn Féin.

Shinner - Wikipedia

[OnDoutside]

21. No it isn't.

It's an informal term here in Ireland. The literal pronunciation of the word Sinn in Irish is "Shin" !!!

I actually live in Ireland, and in any case, if you know your history this current crop stole the name from our heroes of our War of Independence. Real heroes like Collins, Devalera and Ceannt. The real Sinn Fein and the common or informal use of Shinner goes back over 100 years ago.

[flotsam]

23. This

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS800US800&sxsrf=ALeKk03yaiSu4G4AxPsLkYVuitbN6RaokA%3A1611848435557&ei=89oSYL7JIY-DwbkPi9Wu-A8&q=Is+the+Irish+term+%22shinner%22+derogatory&oq=Is+the+Irish+term+%22shinner%22+derogatory&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoHCC4QFBCHAjoHCAAQFBCHAjoKCC4QxwEQrwEQCjoHCAAQsQMQCjoNCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQCjoECAAQCjoHCCMQ6gIQJzoFCAAQkQI6CwguEMcBEK8BEJECOggIABCxAxCDAToOCC4QsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOgIIADoICC4QsQMQgwE6AgguOgUIABDJAzoFCAAQsQM6CAgAELEDEMkDOgYIABAWEB46BwgAEEYQ-wE6CAghEBYQHRAeOgUIIRCgAToHCCEQChCgAToFCCEQqwJQ4nxY2a4CYMO0AmgCcAJ4AoAB3gGIAawlkgEHMjUuMTkuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXqwAQrIAQnAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwj-jrur-77uAhWPQTABHYuqC_8Q4dUDCA0&uact=5

[OnDoutside]

28. I live here.

It's exactly the same as people on this site shortening Republicans to Repubs. The members of Sinn Fein that I know use it themselves.

This is from a professional dictionary

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/shinner

Shinner
in British English
(ˈʃɪnə
)

NOUN (in Ireland)

informal
a supporter or member of Sinn Féin
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

[Dawson Leery]

8. The half island that borrowed and stole everything they have from someone else

is going to learn the world does not bend to their will anymore. All those Eton boys and country folk are delusional if they believe they will get their empire back.

Everywhere the Brits went they made trouble and left a mess behind. They raped India and Africa of their resources, leaving them impoverished.

China and India are massive nations with rapidly growing economies. They are the future. Also, both nations have massive nuclear arsenals. The Brits don't want to take that on.

[Yavin4]

10. If the UK all broke up into individual nations,

could each nation then re-join the EU? Since the UK would be no more.

[dalton99a]

11. Yes. If they meet the criteria:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/article-49-rejoining-eu

Under Article 49, any country applying to become an EU member state must meet the following criteria:
Be a European state
Respect and commit to promote Article 2 values – including human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law, human rights (specifically minority rights), pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality
Have its application unanimously approved by the Council of the EU
Have its application approved by a majority vote of the European Parliament

Additional requirements that a candidate country must meet to become a member state of the EU:
Political: broadly the same values as those outlined in Article 2, with an additional requirement for sound institutions and robust checks and balances
Economic: a functioning and resilient market economy
Administrative and institutional: the capacity to implement and absorb the EU’s acquis, i.e. the full sum of EU law

[OnDoutside]

13. Yes, though I think England would find a lot of obstacles in their way, and all the old cozy

advantages would either be gone or vastly reduced.

[MicaelS]

16. Never knew there was this much British hate here.

I am shocked.

[Lars39]

18. Look to history

They’ve done a lot of damage as an empire.

[DavidDvorkin]

25. So why don't we also see great hatred here for Spain?

Belgium? Germany? Portugal? Italy?

The United States?

[Lars39]

26. Perhaps the people here have been personally affected by the UK

and not the other countries.

[Turin_C3PO]

27. Probably because

we have some posters here who either themselves or their ancestors were affected by Great Britain’s policies. I’m sure if you went to a Latin American forum, you’d see the same hate toward Spain. And the US is constantly criticized on this site, much more than the UK.

[OnDoutside]

22. To be fair, I don't think hate is the operative word. Schadenfreude is more accurate.

I've worked a lot of my working life in England, have many English friends (some amazingly are Brexiters, despite having worked alongside me all over Europe ! In fact, one of them lives in France, with his French wife, and ran a local cafe/newsagent for years - go figure), and always look forward to heading over for work or rugby matches.

It's more of a "Chickens coming home to roost". Despite the Empire ending, there is an English Nationalist feeling that has never come to terms with that, who they are and what is their place in the world now. It's that jingoistic fervour, stoked by malevolent actors like Farage and Johnson, that has resulted in Brexit, and now they are beginning to learn a long hard lesson. I hope they come out of it as a far better, balanced country than they went in to it. Decade after decade, British Governments have used the EU as a whipping boy despite being a very powerful and influential position, to deflect blame away from themselves. They've done this to themselves.

[DavidDvorkin]

24. I've seen it here before

It's a constant on DU.

[Xolodno]

19. Looks like the final gasps of an empire.

In trying to save their empire that was already on its way out, they hasten its demise. And the leaders, like Roman Senators, more concerned about their own wealth and power...but ultimately diminish it because of naïve thinking that it would never happen.

Romanoff dynasty ruled Russia for three centuries...and was gone not in an instant, but after one bad decision after another, then abdication was only a formality after that point.

[Kid Berwyn]

20. There goes Air Strip One.

Thanks, Putin.