I fucking hate White People

[sir pball]

...and I'm one of 'em.

[Dan]

1. Are "all" of them bad?

[sir pball]

4. I think the majority of "us", yep.

I'm cracker-White privileged to have a very low opinion of my own race

[Rustyeye77]

176. You really have a low opinion of yourself as you said above

Time to respond to some posts here

[SlogginThroughIt]

29. Just about.

just about every white person I know let’s off-color jokes go without saying a word about them. I am white and I’m fucking tired of having to be the one to step up and say that’s bullshit.

[former9thward]

49. You have never heard such jokes by people of other races?

If so, you must not get around or live in major multi race cities like Chicago where I live.

[SlogginThroughIt]

59. I live in a multi race family

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2021, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Those other races aren’t a majority and have years of history subjugating other humans as a collective... And you know what??? Forget it This is exactly what we are talking about... This junk right here. This ridiculousness of making excuses and trying to somehow soften the blow. Screw that. White people, of which I am one of, don’t get a pass. At best they get told what they are doing wrong and maybe they get the benefit of the doubt if they say they learned something but otherwise... Yeah I am sick and tired of the “other people do it too” garbage. That is some both sides junk that needs to stop. If you can’t lead and say enough is enough that the people that have benefitted from privilege or straight out oppressing other races then... YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET IT! EVER!

“But black people”.... GTOH with that BS.


Edited for the pearl clutching. Apologies for any underwear that became twisted beyond repair. Enjoy your day and feel free to not care about other peoples horrible behavior because somewhere someone else may have said something too.

[cwydro]

64. Oh my.

Goodness gracious.

[SlogginThroughIt]

71. Well the title of the thread is I fucking hate white people...

Leave the pearls at the door. Ain't no time for clutching anyhow.

[cwydro]

74. Lol.

Oh dear.

[Faux pas]

2. I

have a prejudice against assholes, white supremacists are most of them. I'm white too. I love that song

[Bucky]

3. Thank you.

It's important to not feed the wolf we're trying to kill.

[Faux pas]

11. ...

[sir pball]

6. Oh you're no fun!

Assholes come in all colors for sure, but we're the worst...the first step in changing who you are is admitting who you are!

[Bucky]

8. That's a weird version of white supremacy you're working there, Pball.

Loving humanity starts with self love.

If you start with the premise that "we" are terrible (and the best at terribleness) because some people who have a few physical characteristics like us are terrible, you're actually validating their ideas of separateness based on those physical features, while ignoring the far more important character features that make us who we are.

You owe no kinship to haters unless you choose to identify with them. It's cool to cut off toxic people. I recommend it.

[sir pball]

12. I'm being farcical

I've had a bit to drink, and a wife that needs some serious distraction, so I dissertated to her on Voltaire.

Given how you analyzed...I take it you've read Candide, at the very least.

[Bucky]

15. I've not read Candide. If this was the best of all possible worlds, tho, I would've had the time.

I've read a shitload of history. And just about everything MLK wrote. I believe strongly you don't get ends by working out of bad principles. The hardest oppression to fight is the internalized sort, which you feed even with farcical attention. Hate is the only thing strong enough to stop you if you want to make a better world. Don't give the enemy safe harbor.

[Deacon Blue]

43. All in the Same Boat

Even though we came on different ships, to paraphrase Dr. King.

[MineralMan]

22. Posting while intoxicated is a bad idea, in general.

Given that, I'm done with this thread.

[Bucky]

30. ...and a waste of time. You could be operating heavy machinery instead

[cwydro]

65. Thank you.

These kinds of threads...

[tonedevil]

79. So disturbing to delicate white sensitivities.

[cwydro]

80. So what will happen if someone posted the same thread with a different color than white?

Hmm? Ah, you know the answer, doncha though?

I so dislike hypocrisy. Ymmv.

[tonedevil]

88. Because equality between races...

and social groups are so identical that saying white power means the same thing as saying black power you're just referring to different groups.

[cwydro]

89. Maybe it's too late and time to go back to bed.

But I’ve no idea what you said. Are you being sarcastic?

Maybe a comma is missing? A semi colon? A period?

[tonedevil]

90. You seem to think that a post..

saying I hate all (insert a not white group) would have the same meaning as an I hate all white people post. I think the weight of history makes such statements inherently different. Perhaps you aren't able to understand that would not surprise me at all.

[cwydro]

118. Oh dear, and again you left a comma out.

Personal attack noticed lol. Mwah.

[tonedevil]

124. OK Chief. /nt

[StarfishSaver]

106. I understand it perfectly well

Perhaps you should read it again and consider it in the context of American history and culture?

[Hortensis]

163. How about in the context of just plain person-on-race racism?

On looking for a definition of racism, which I actually believe the OP's expression of hatred toward an entire race is the very essence of, I was flummoxed by the ADL's definition, which apparently will gratify some others here though.

Turns out a person can't be racist if he's not part of a group powerful enough to "marginalize and/or oppress people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people. AND only white people can be racist. The ADL!

How do white and nonwhite Jews fit into this strange weltanschauung? Only white Jews can be racist but not Chinese Jews, even if they're oppressing immigrant Tibetan Jews who made the mistake of trying to find a home among them? Israel's polyglot mix are a particularly interesting trial of this definition. What are they thinking? Has the ADL decided Jews are their own race after all, a nonwhite one so they can be among the oppressed?

In any case, the ADL, which self describes as a "leading anti-hate organization," believes the OP's expression of hatred toward an entire race is not racist.

Go figure. We live in interesting times.

[Coventina]

227. Short explanation: Racism is systemic. Individual hatred is bigotry.

Hence, the ADL's explanation.

[sir pball]

208. They'd be castigated, even if

They were making a good point (I have no thoughts on that)

It's still PC to hate my own people though, so I will keep up at it...I took two days away and this is just amazing 😂😂

[Drahthaardogs]

236. He refers to Italian Americans as goombas

Here on DU, but apparently gets a little flustered when roles are reversed.

[StarfishSaver]

5. ...

[sir pball]

7. If you DON'T...

...are you aware you're White?

[Solly Mack]

26. Exactly.

[SlogginThroughIt]

33. This!

I didn’t always but I have for a long time and I’m tired of not seeing other people step up and do the same

[Caliman73]

9. Perhaps, getting rid of "White" as an identifier is a start?

It means nothing, except "not Black" or "not Brown" or "not Other".

I saw a fascinating TED talk about it. Here it is:

[StarfishSaver]

61. And yet you seem fine using "Black" and "Brown" and "Other" as identifiers

In my experience many white people don't think of themselves anything other than "people" and while they are perfectly comfortable identify other people by their race, they get very offended when they are called "white."

It's apparent on DU as well as other places. Any OP referring to "white people," regardless the context, is almost certain to get swarmed, hijacked and alerted.

[betsuni]

66. +1

[SlogginThroughIt]

68. Absolutely!

[cwydro]

76. And an OP referring to any other color people would not be alerted?

Guess what? An OP with any other color in the title would have already been “swarmed, hijacked, and alerted” as you put it.

Only difference being, it would have long since been removed.

[StarfishSaver]

82. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying because it's true

But how unsurprising that you jumped in to challenge my comment. The only thing surprising is that it took you this long.

[cwydro]

84. Ah, I do love ya boo, and I never put anyone on ignore.

But I try to restrain myself as much as possible.

I actually agree with you on occasion; you’d be surprised.

And you know as well as I that a thread with any other color as a descriptor would barely last five minutes, if that. That is also true.

[StarfishSaver]

85. "Black voters this, Latino voters that ..." crickets ...

"White voters ..." NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE!!! WHAT DOES RACE HAVE TO DO WITH IT?! YOU'RE BEING DIVISIVE!!!

[cwydro]

86. I've spoken up numerous times about those generalizations.

No reason you’d know that, but I hate those posts.

[Celerity]

81. I will take what is White Fragility for 1400 Alex (RIP)

'Interrupt The Systems': Robin DiAngelo On 'White Fragility' And Anti-Racism

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879136931/interrupt-the-systems-robin-diangelo-on-white-fragility-and-anti-racism



If you're white, you may not think of yourself as racist. Maybe you hardly think about race at all. But Robin DiAngelo, the author of White Fragility, says white people need to think about how they fit into racist systems if they want to be anti-racist. She calls for a more nuanced and informed understanding of racism so white people can take accountability for the ways they benefit from these structures:

"The simplistic idea that racism is limited to individual intentional acts committed by unkind people is at the root of virtually all white defensiveness on this topic," writes DiAngelo in White Fragility. Here are some tips and takeaways from our interview with DiAngelo to help you combat racism:

Start by reflecting on your own experience of being a white person.

"We live in a society that turns race over to people of color. They have a race, and we're just people. And so we see ourselves as outside of race," says DiAngelo. "If we can start our work by reflecting on our own experiences — specifically as white people — and not only as objective individuals outside of race, there's so much insight to be gained there. Start by asking yourself: What does it mean to be white? How has being white shaped my life?"

We need to change our definition of racism.

(Merriam-Webster recently agreed to revise its dictionary's definition.) It's important to recognize that all white people have been socialized into racist systems and it's inevitable that we all have blind spots, says DiAngelo. It is akin to swimming with a current, rather than against it. Instead of asking if you've been shaped by these systems, ask yourself how you've been shaped by them.

We're complicit in racist structures even if they go against our values or beliefs............

snip

[StarfishSaver]

83. Thank you for posting this

Unfortunately, the people who most need to read it are the least likely to.

[Caliman73]

87. True. Many do get offended. White is the default.

It is the absence of "race". As you said, White people are just people. White individuals do not speak for their racial group or represent their group as a whole. I can't imagine asking a person, "So, what to White people think about...?" as I have been asked to represent the views of people like me.

When I speak to White people about race, I often ask them to close their eyes and imagine what an "American" looks like. I can virtually guarantee that their image is not of me, or people who look like me.

I am curious though, I am not sure why you are pointing out my use of Black, Brown, and Other as identifiers. That is the language in common usage. They were simply the words I used to identify White as an exclusionary concept rather than a defining term.


I am Brown by the way. My skin is brown (though a lighter shade), my first language was not English, though I speak it and my other language fluently. Even though I was born here and parts of my family have been in the US for over a hundred years, I have and still get asked where I'm "really from" or I get told how "well you speak English".

My first question when addressing race is "Can you define 'White' for me without telling me what it isn't?"

[StarfishSaver]

99. White is no more of a construct than brown or black are

And black, brown and "others" are just as often be used in place of "not white."

White usually refers to Caucasians or light-skinned people descended from European ancestors. Certainly, that is not precise since some black and brown people are descended from Europeans. But it's no more imprecise than calling black people African-Americans despite the fact that some African-Americans are white or even calling us black when we are actually brown.

My point is that when white people are referred to as a group, some people immediately object, yet they have no problem referring to certain other people using these constructs. You suggested that white is not a thing, but it's just as much of a thing as black and brown. It could just as easily be said that black and brown are simply "not white."

And while black and brown are common terms in the English language, so is white, so I'm not sure why you think one label is fine but another makes no sense.

[Caliman73]

121. I don't think ANY labels make sense.

I think we are talking past each other, and that we agree on the issue.

The main point and what is discussed in the video I attached to my original post is that White was invented for a very specific reason. While, as you say, Brown and Black are just as arbitrary, contrived, and do not define anyone precisely; White carries a power and significance that the other two labels do not. The concept of White has been used to exclude and oppress. It could well have been any other term. Take the term Caucasian, derived from the Caucasus region of Eurasia. The guy who applied it to the discussion of racial identification, did so because a skull he discovered there was believed to be his most prized possession with him thinking it to be the most beautiful and perfect skull therefore, having to belong to a superior race of people (White of course).

There are differences in culture, religion, etc... but the problem is when certain traits, practices, features, and hues of skin are valued while others are devalued.

[StarfishSaver]

125. People of color didn't create the labels. White folks did

Yet many of them suddenly go all "no labels" whenever labels are applied to them even while they continue to label others.

I don't have a lot of patience for that.

People on this board and elsewhere don't think a thing about anyone being referred to as black or brown or reading or discussing what black people or brown people are thinking and doing, yet they get the vapors when anyone refers to white people and they suddenly jump into discussions to challenge the use of labels.

If they aren't inserting themselves into every other discussion about black and brown people, I'm not really that interested in their sudden new concern about labels when applied to themselves.

[Caliman73]

129. Agreed.

Having been in the position (as I explained earlier) of speaking for my entire ethnic/racial group throughout my life, I don't have much patience either, especially when I hear people talking about "discrimination" against White people. Like I said, when I hear that I ask, "What the hell does 'White' even mean?" The only discernable answer I can consistently come to is, "Not you (me)".

I am very aware that the labels were created and imposed upon "non-White" people, as were standards of beauty, intelligence, and social norms. Yet, as you said, whenever some kind of "group" identity is discussed in regards to White people, it does ruffle feathers.

[Hekate]

185. How old are you, by the way?

[Vivienne235729]

164. 100000+ if I could like this a million times, I would.

[sir pball]

209. Yep.

Anyone who self-identifies as White is automatically disgusting and racist.

[MineralMan]

10. Self-hatred is self-destructive

Racism is racism.

[sir pball]

14. I don't hate myself, I hate what people do in my name.

I am absolutely being provocative, but my great-great-great-granduncle (IIRC, my mom was a pureblood Waite) was Morrison Waite...not exactly a paragon of civil rights.

[MineralMan]

18. Nobody is doing anything in your name.

You are confused. You are the only one who acts in your name.

The problem is that you are promoting self-hatred. That solves nothing. The solution is in not hating based on race. If you do not do that, then you are not the problem.

Your post begins with "I hate White People." Do you not see the contradiction there?

[SlogginThroughIt]

35. Oh boy...

this is the type of garbage I hate on this site.

[Rustyeye77]

37. Obviously...you're in denial

It’s time you accept you’re part of the problem and don’t accept your guilt.

Just kidding

[cwydro]

78. What? Posts that make sense?

You joined, what,a year ago, but you hate “garbage” from long time members? Why’d you join?

I have disagreed with MM many times, but I don’t think his posts are “garbage.” Tsk tsk.

[LanternWaste]

38. So is literalism at the expense of actual intent.

Else how does one rationalize statements such as "never saw so much leather in one place..." in a plausible and believable manner?

[MineralMan]

47. ..

[Celerity]

94. Racists have to be a member of the race that has systemic control. Without that it's bigotry.

The US is an institutionally racist society by definition as whites have the vast majority of systemic control.

[Hekate]

184. So non-whites cannot be racist or bigoted? Or are not by virtue of their non-whiteness? Or what?

Wade on in.

[Celerity]

186. Where did I say they couldn't be bigoted? I said bigotry is what discriminatory and/or hateful

behaviour based off racial difference was in the absence of systemic power control.

I also never said that systemic control was a uniquely white domain, although they do control the majority of the overall physical and population sectors on the planet, even if it as indirect levels in some cases (Africa for instance). Whites do not control China and its sphere of influence at overarching systemic power levels for instance.

[cayugafalls]

13. Last time I checked Joe Biden was white...just saying, broad brush paints broadly.

Love of all mankind can only start with self love.

[AmyStrange]

16. That's true, but...

-

you can also love yourself too much, you know, like Trump does.
=========

[cayugafalls]

17. NPD is not about self love.

Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's idealised self-image and attributes.

Strange but true.

[AmyStrange]

19. In other words, extreme self love...

-

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
===========

[LanternWaste]

39. "Self-love, my liege, is not so vile a sin, as self-neglect..."

― William Shakespeare, King Henry V-- who oddly enough, never claimed to be a 'Threadmaster', regardless of the irrelevancy of agreeance.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. I'd say it's more likely a way of compensating for extreme self hatred.

I don't see self aggrandizement as being the same as self love.

[cayugafalls]

60. I will agree that extreme self love is flawed.

However, the symptom of the patient does not fully explain the nature or origin of the disease.

Self love as the symptom is merely a small part of the diagnosis and not technically relevant when the resultant aberrant behavior is rested in the hatred and lack of love shown by others, siblings or parents. This turning of love into hate or self love into self hate is paramount on any discussion in regards to the basic nature of man and his motivations for lashing out in anger while maintaining that they act out of love, whether that be love of self, others or party.

When confronted with love as hate or hate as love this discernment becomes even more important, it is therefore the will of the actor and their betrayal of their own id that forces those around them to confuse their love of self as something more than the desire to punish their self for their own deeper hidden flaws.

The actor controls their destiny, while the writer controls the story.

[Bettie]

20. Privilege leads to worse behavior

The majority of white people suck because society allows them to be horrible with few consequences.

White men especially can pretty much run roughshod over everyone and everything without any consequences.

ETA: NOT All white people, but the majority of us are like this at least where I live.

[safeinOhio]

21. I'm not White.

I'm kind of pinkish grey.

[Bucky]

31. all humans are the same color, really...

if you drop them in a blender

[Ron Obvious]

23. I'm getting mighty tired of this kind of self-flagellation

It's highly unproductive and likely to increase racism.

[Raine]

62. So am i

I'm sick to death of it!

[cwydro]

69. I hear ya.

And the intent is so obvious.

[tonedevil]

24. I really love the...

not all white people knee this jerks. I am someone who can only be described as an older white man and I think our club is the most fucked up. If you are white and this OP upsets you, you are probably in need of upsetting.

[sweetloukillbot]

27. Thanks!

50-year-old white guy here who recognizes how privileged he is.

[VA_Jill]

32. Well, you know

there are White people and then there are the other kind. I spell that Wypipo. Don't ask me where I learned that because you don't really want to know. Some folks say crackers but my son informed me that the PC term is "Saltine-American" (I damn near choked on my coffee at that). I am an older white person with 11 grandchildren who come in all colors. The oldest is a pale blonde. The rest of them come in various shades from dark to light with another lightish-skinned blonde at the tail end. Wypipo would call them mongrels. I am proud to call them my beautiful grandchildren. The Wypipo are trash.

[tonedevil]

55. Wypipo are on this thread...

like white on rice. I feel like the kid in The Sixth Sense, I see Wypipo just walking around like regular people. They don't see each other they just see what they want to see.

[StarfishSaver]

100. Lol

Nailed it!

[Rustyeye77]

25. Wow

can you imagine if someone said

“I hate _____ people “ (fill in race ,sex orient or other)

Yeah those evil white people..sheeesh

[jcgoldie]

28. You should delete this ignorant shit

If you have something meaningful to say about racism or race relations in America that would be productive. The title of your thread is just ridiculous and it is not helpful.

[Rustyeye77]

36. Thank you

Be ready to be accused of being in denial and that you’re part of the problem.

How you need to wake up and show some white guilt.

[Sympthsical]

34. Is it Racism Wednesdays already?

And the, "I think that, but I'm a white person!"

Yeah, I'm white, too. This kind of self-loathing doesn't signal that you're "one of the good ones." It just self-embarrasses in the most cringe way.

Shame this racism is allowed here.

A double shame it involves Nina Simone, whom I've adored since I was a teen.

[Dr. Strange]

40. Personally, I hate stupid people.

[cwydro]

70. Best post.

[dware]

102. Along with stupid threads designed to start shit like we're seeing

on this particular thread.

[StarfishSaver]

108. The OP didn't "start shit"

The people who jumped in and started shit about it started shit.

[dware]

113. Respectfully,

just the title I fucking hate white people is starting shit in my humble opinion and the OP knew what they were starting.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[StarfishSaver]

119. It seems the easiest course would have been to just ignore it and then it would have gone away

But jumping in to challenge it only stirs the pot. People certainly have a right to respond to any comment they disagree with. But once they jump in, they give up the higher ground to argue that someone else "started shit."

[dware]

120. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

[sir pball]

210. Teehehe, thanks

I mean, I really do hate "Whites" but also...if I could bait this well while fishing I could quit my day job.

[msfiddlestix]

42. Well then. I guess you hate me.

But you don 't even know me. I guess that doesn't matter.

[mnhtnbb]

44. Alvin Ailey dancers perform Sinnerman from Revelations

&list=RDI-OuqB1pgys&start_radio=1&t=13

[JuJuYoshida]

45. I'm Chinese let me start an "I hate Asians" thread, see how well that plays here

[Blue_true]

58. Good point.

I absolutely can’t conceive of hating people that I don’t know because of their race. That is what racists do, and we SEE the damage that they have caused.

I much rather evaluate people that I meet on a person by person basis.

I am Black, a very pivotal mentor in my life was a White person, in fact, his mentorship pushed me to strive for higher educational goals than I was headed for before I came to work for him as a young teen.

This OP is so distressing, I was absolutely floored by people that agreed with it’s stark and, in IMO, thoughtless tone.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

46. Great singer, great song.

She is great, I would have gone with the Kill whitey gif from chris farley.

I am also white and do not like what white people have done to america.

[DrToast]

48. WTF is this trash?

[Calculating]

50. Delete this thread

If this is a joke, it's not funny.

[kcr]

51. So cringey

You need to delete this.

[Iggo]

52. Me too, sometimes.

[Texasgal]

53. I don't hate any skin color.

And I never will.

[Rustyeye77]

235. Exactly

Crazy world

[PurgedVoter]

54. I'm white, and some of my best friends were white people.

Heck, I used to hang out with white people and sing in a choir with them. I married a white person, so I can't possibly be prejudiced against whites.

But there are times when a little song that was performed by Garrett Morris runs though my head and makes me smile.

[Rustyeye77]

56. Kick... this is such a horrible post

Should be seen by everyone

[WhiskeyGrinder]

57. So work to dismantle white supremacy.

[tonedevil]

213. Your comment seems to have been overlooked...

yet it is arguably the most important point in the thread.

[Raine]

63. Such a disgusting post, Ugh! 👎

[Zeus69]

67. What a pantload

N/T

[Rustyeye77]

179. Lol

Really

[JI7]

72. Speak out against White Supremacy like Joe Biden

[Ron Green]

73. I hear you. Needs to be said

from time to time.

Anyone who can’t feel it ought to dig a little deeper.

[Wednesdays]

75. This whole thread is unconstructive. eom

[LeftInTX]

91. It solves nothing.....

Maybe someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed...

This person doesn't just hate white people...they eff'ing hate white people....
I hate Donald Trump, but I don't eff'ing hate him.

There are very few people who I eff'ing hate.....

ETA: OP admits to being drunk

[Celerity]

77. Nina Simone - Mississippi Goddam

[Solly Mack]

92. I fucking love this thread.

[Paladin]

109. I don't. (nt)

[BannonsLiver]

112. Yes, unintentional comedy is the best.

Last edited Thu Jan 28, 2021, 01:20 PM - Edit history (2)

[Celerity]

187. It is quite telling, is it not?

[Solly Mack]

189. The expression of raw emotion without the ease of a buffer scares some people.

They never seem to realize that a buffer doesn't just safeguard their nurtured sensibilities, it prevents them from actually hearing everything that is being said. Like wearing ear buds - a soundtrack of pleasant tunes plays in your head - while someone is telling you something important. You can hear only so much - when you really do need to hear it without the filter. You need to hear it raw.

The constant refrains of - Yes, white privilege/supremacy has enslaved, raped, murdered, and oppressed you all with impunity, but must you yell about it? Must you express yourself so bluntly? Don't kneel. Don't march. Don't show anger. Tell us about it - gently. And never, ever, offend our "Not me" sensibilities.

Let's us tell you how to direct your pain, your frustration, your anger, your anguish, your sorrow - without ever making us feel like maybe, just maybe, our need for a buffer is part of the problem. We want to hear your pain, just not in a way that causes us offense. We don't want your raw emotions, your actual truth - we want it distilled into something more palatable. Easier to swallow.

If the whole range of raw emotions caused by structural racism were to be leveled against those who benefit from it, the roar would stun the world into silence. It would peel the flesh off the bone.


And, frankly, a white person who hasn't looked at other white people and wondered "WTF, white people!?!", then you really haven't come to terms with the ways white people have caused and continue to cause harm and have benefited and continue to benefit from the harm they cause.

It's not self-hate to recognize any of this. To feel the anger. To experience pain from it. What has been done in the name of white supremacy/privilege should cause white people pain. It should cause them to be angry at a system that propped them up (and still props them up) while oppressing others.

Saying you know it is true ain't the same as feeling it to your core. You gotta get down to the raw of it all.

[StarfishSaver]

194. This is amazing

How eloquent and true. Thank you for posting this.

It would be a great OP - if your skin is thick enough because you know what the reaction would be. But people need to read this.

[Solly Mack]

196. If my in-box is any indication, people are reading it.

A mixed bag. lol

Thanks.

[sir pball]

215. I don't blame them for not making it an OP

After admittedly drunkenly, but honestly, having my say, I avoided this thread; it blew the hell up and I didn't want to have to explain myself to people who didn't get it.

[Bettie]

195. Well said, especially this

And, frankly, a white person who hasn't looked at other white people and wondered "WTF, white people!?!", then you really haven't come to terms with the ways white people have caused and continue to cause harm and have benefited and continue to benefit from the harm they cause.

It's not self-hate to recognize any of this. To feel the anger. To experience pain from it. What has been done in the name of white supremacy/privilege should cause white people pain. It should cause them to be angry at a system that propped them up (and still props them up) while oppressing others.

[Solly Mack]

197. Thank you.

I always doubt I can get across what I'm feeling. I usually fail.

[Bettie]

198. I usually fail too

or it ends up incoherent... I totally get that.

This was great though.

I was kind of surprised by how angry some people got about this whole thing.

[StarfishSaver]

199. The anger, defensiveness and outright nastiness in his thread from people who are offended by the OP

are very interesting, to say the least.

It's always fascinating when people so unwittingly prove the point they are trying to push back on.

[Bettie]

201. Got to say, I expected better

on DU.

I was kind of surprised that people lost their minds as much as they did.

[StarfishSaver]

204. I didn't

It's par for the course around here

[Solly Mack]

206. I've seen it here before regarding racial equality/equity, misogyny, homophobia.

People bristling.

When my women friends get together (I'm also a woman) we speak our anger and pain - ugly, raw, and bitter - about misogyny. I know my husband has blanched a few times while listening. But he listens to learn. It has made him more aware. He used his discomfort as a learning tool.

[sir pball]

216. As do I

So I just get drunk and shitpost

[Solly Mack]

222. I've done that before.

[sir pball]

226. Thanks for the understanding.

Haven't had one hit 200 replies though...I really touched a nerve lol

[sir pball]

214. Thank you.

I drunkenly blurted it out, to be clear with no regrets. You, in your more sober, eloquent, and maybe more mature wisdom, elaborated and elucidated in ways I can't.

Thanks for getting it 👍

[Solly Mack]

221. You're welcome.

I got it immediately because I know the feeling.

[sir pball]

229. As I said elsewhere, "yasss fam!"

Cheers

[Coventina]

230. I notice that the self-righteous on this thread have no guts to reply.

Thank you for posting this powerful message.

[Solly Mack]

231. You're welcome, Coventina.

[sir pball]

233. They won't reply because they have no reply.

Too many of us can't admit guilt without feeling guilty...the two are not the same.

[sir pball]

211. YASS FAM

I mean... seriously!

[Solly Mack]

223. Yeah, but I have to work at it.

[sir pball]

225. Eh, it's easier to just embrace it

Like diving into a warm pool

[BGBD]

93. Well

This is going about as well as I would have expected.

[betsuni]

95. For people upset about this OP: immunity.

If you're a member of a group (ethnicity, nationality, class, gender, religion, region, whatever) you can say anything about that group, you have immunity because those are your people.

Seinfeld, joke immunity:

[Coventina]

96. wow, tons of white fragility on this thread.

[jcgoldie]

101. It isn't white fragility to call out ignorance

I'm not offended by it. I don't even really think it qualifies as racist because of the way the power relations work in our society. I just think that its completely ignorant, lacks any actual understanding for or appreciation of race or racism, and is probably self destructive. What is the message for anyone reading DU? Any of us or anyone else. That we are really really not racist because we aren't afraid to direct our hate at the hegemonic group? Or that its acceptable here to rant about hating groups of people because you are feeling self loathing? The problem isn't that "whiteness" is being highlighted and people are embarrassed by it or anyone is denying the reality of white privilege, the problem is that we are openly expressing it as hatred.

[cwydro]

117. Thank you. Funny, either we're privileged or we're fragile. How can we be both?

I don’t feel in the least bit fragile.

I’m aware I’m privileged, but I feel bad for the OP to have so much self hate. Certainly some fragility there, eh?

I’ve never hated any person for their color. I certainly have been perfectly happy in my own white skin. Being gay was troublesome in the beginning, but I never felt the need to sit in a closet. NO self hate on that score either.

[StarfishSaver]

122. Privilege and fragility are not mutually exclusive

In fact, all-to-often the fragility is a component of and protected by the privilege.

People of color usually don't have the privilege of being fragile. In fact, when we express objection or offense, we're told we're overreacting or making it all about race or, of course, "playing the race card."

White fragility is a privilege - as is the confident entitlement to invoke it at will while claiming it doesn't exist.

[cwydro]

128. Yes ma'am.

Thank you kindly

Trying to get this all down. okay, let’s see...privilege equals fragility. Ok, got it, or was it the other way round. Oh dear.

[tonedevil]

130. Why do you bother...

if it all confuses you so much?

[cwydro]

132. Oh, I find this rather enjoyable today.

Stuck inside for an hour or two. Usually I’m outside.

This is a hoot.

[tonedevil]

134. There is a quote from Maya Angelou...

that you have brought to my mind.

[StarfishSaver]

131. No, you didn't get it. That's not what I said.

Race and racism are complicated issues and serious people with genuine interest in understanding them tend not to engage in these discussions in such a flippant, dismissive and shallow manner.

[cwydro]

133. Your wingman already pointed out how confused I am.

Please take pity.

[StarfishSaver]

137. As I said ...

[Beringia]

135. Gay people haven't ever been a group that oppressed others

that I know of. Being gay, you can go out in public without everyone seeing a sign reading you are gay.

I think people are hard wired generally not to want to find fault with themselves, but in order to have a social conscience, I think it requires some finding fault.

I know I worked for 2 big teachers/dentists at a dental school and they never addressed the issue of AIDS affecting minorities disproportionately. I used to make their Continuing Education slides and I made a few on my own for them on AIDS and the greater numbers of minorities that have to deal with it, along with of course less access to high quality healthcare. I doubt they used them, but I tried.

[BannonsLiver]

157. I wouldn't get too worried about it

Just another Woke Off that turned into parody. They usually do.

[cwydro]

161. I like that term.

Too funny. I literally laughed out loud.

[treestar]

202. Who invented this concept and why does anyone think it is going to help?

When POC spoke of their experiences of unfairness, it resulted in things like the Civil Rights Act.

But banging on about white privilege and white fragility just sounds academic and ponderous and the average white person will respond negatively. Even if we on DU get it, it's not going to work on the masses out there.Who thought this concept is going to create more fairness? Poor white people will never get it. They are "failures" with nothing to blame.

Its sole purpose appears to be to create a club of superior beings who can look down on the rest of the whites.

[StarfishSaver]

203. Why do you think a concept can't be discussed unless it "creates more fairness"?

Often things need to be discussed, even if they're uncomfortable for some people, in order to even get to the point of dealing with them and then moving toward greater fairness.

Dismissing realities such as white fragility as mere constructs created by academics not only dismisses the real lived experience of people of color, it suggests a defensiveness and blind spot that is really the reason we're having difficulty getting more fairness.

The problem isn't that certain concepts are discussed. The problem is that certain people don't want to discuss anything that makes them uncomfortable.

All too often, black and brown folk are told to just sit in our own pain and frustration because expressing it might disrupt white people's comfort. And it's almost always white people telling us when and how we can talk about these things and when we have gone too far and need to shut up about it because we're being divisive.

[treestar]

207. I just think most white people will naturally be defensive

at least average, apolitical ones. Why do they have to be "uncomfortable?" What's the great value of that? They are more likely to be sympathetic to injustice done to POC than they are to hear they are privileged and that if they say one word of disagreement, fragile. Is this discomfort going to motivate them to be fairer? Lecturing one's fellow white people about their privilege only gets them telling you how hard they had to work to get where they are. You have to be pretty educated not to do that.

[StarfishSaver]

212. Why should black folk pull our punches because telling the truth makes some white people defensive?

And this isn't about purposefully making white people uncomfortable. We're just trying to speak the truth. Often that truth makes some white people uncomfortable, but it's not up to us to alter our truth or bite our tongues because that truth makes them uncomfortable.

You know what's really uncomfortable? Being black in America. It's even more uncomfortable being black in America and having white people tell us that we're making them uncomfortable by talking about how hard it is to be black in America.

But do you notice how all of the focus is centered around white people's feelings? Nowhere in this discussion has there been any expression of concern about why black people feel the way we do or why we need to discuss this. Instead we're told "Be quiet -you're making us uncomfortable" without even a thought about how systemic racism and some white people's refusal to discuss it or address it or even acknowledge it makes us more than uncomfortable.

This is the essence of white fragility - centering all interactions and discussions around white people's feelings and expecting everyone else to adjust to them without any need for white people to put themselves out even a little bit if doing so makes them uneasy.

FYI, it's not our job to motivate white people to do better. "Magical Negroes" only exist in movies.

I suspect most black folk are sick and tired of tip-toeing around and being expected to teach white people and being told that we didn't teach it just right, so it's our fault that they still haven't learned anything. White folks need to take responsibility for their own evolution, stop expecting us to do all of the work they should be doing, and stop blaming us when they are too lazy or fragile to take any of it on themselves.

[Coventina]

224. This.

[Rustyeye77]

98. Great post

Thx

[tonedevil]

105. How fortunate to have the privilege..

of not seeing color. It is not a privilege extended to people who don't fall under the umbrella of whiteness.

[phylny]

111. How kind was her gesture?

Whether “privileged” or not.

[tonedevil]

123. Extremely kind...

it warms the cockles of my heart to hear of someone helping someone else help cats. I weep when white people say they don't see color thinking it is a good thing.

[phylny]

126. I weep when we give kind people no kindness.

[tonedevil]

127. Being white and saying...

you don't see color is the opposite of kindness.

[tonedevil]

141. Do you understand why...

being white and saying you don't see color is not a comfort to non-white people?

[StarfishSaver]

149. Interesting that you feel free to say that the OP is offensive

yet you vigorously resist when people tell you that they found something you said to be offensive.

You seem to think that YOUR thoughts and YOUR way of thinking shouldn't be challenged while you have no problem challenging others for presenting their own perspectives.

[StarfishSaver]

168. You don't seem to understand the difference between seeing people's race

and judging or making assumptions about them because of it.

I'm sure when you interact with people, you see whether they are male or female . There's nothing wrong or misogynistic about that. What you do with that information determines that. But if you walk away from that interaction completely unaware whether you were talking with a male or female (unless they don't identify or present as either), that would be really weird. The same goes for race.

[Empowerer]

173. Starfish must have really touched a nerve

Why else would you overreact with such a nasty personal atrack in response to her very polite posts?

[tonedevil]

174. Someone else who has moved beyond color.

[EffieBlack]

178. I didn't know they were black until I started bragging about how I helped some black people

and suddenly realized the people I helped just happened to be black although I didn’t see what race they were at the time because I don’t see race.

Lord have mercy.

[ShazzieB]

177. I'm white, and when other white people say they "don't see" color

it makes me cringe.

To anyone who doesn't understand why, I recommend reading this: https://www.oprahmag.com/life/relationships-love/a32824297/color-blind-myth-racism/

[phylny]

142. Your kindness speaks volumes.

Thank you for helping others and especially their animals.

[phylny]

139. I believe you knew what the poster meant, even if the phrase is not to your liking.

But you can continue and I’ll leave this be.

[tonedevil]

143. The phrase is on a par with...

some of my best friends are black. If that is to your liking I guess I will just accept that for what it is.

[StarfishSaver]

150. Interesting

I think we also all know what the OP meant, even if their phrasing wasn't to some people's liking.

Yet you criticize certain people for objecting to someone's words, expecting them to interpret what they MEANT, yet don't seem to care what the OP MEANT because you don't like the words they used.

[BannonsLiver]

115. LOL

[StarfishSaver]

110. You probably don't mean it that way, but saying you "don't see color" is offensive

You are saying that you don't really see them.

I don't believe that people don't see color. I think what you're saying is that their color didn't make any difference to you. But saying you don't see their color is telling them that a major part of who they are is invisible to you.

I always see color when I see people, just as I see that they are female or male or tall or short or have dark hair or blue eyes. When I look at someone, I notice their whole physical being. But I try not to judge them based on any of those characteristics. That's the key.

But saying you "don't see color" is either just not true - since it's pretty impossible to look at someone and not see their most obviously visible physical characteristic - or you are completely dismissing who they are. It also suggests an "I don't have a racist bone in my body" blindspot that doesn't help deal with these issues.

I think you actually meant that their color matter not to you, which is a good thing. But you might want to rethink saying you don't see someone's color since that's not what I think you actually meant.

[StarfishSaver]

144. My post to you was very kind and an effort to help you see this from a different perspective

Far from "nitpicking," I gave you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you didn't mean what you actually said since what you actually said was very offensive and suggested an insensitivity and blindspot one would think you wouldn't wish to have and definitely didn't want to convey.

Apparently, I overestimated.

[StarfishSaver]

152. Do tell - what "agenda" am I "pushing"?

[BannonsLiver]

154. I'm not quite sure either

Though I think we can rule out patience, grace and compassion.

[StarfishSaver]

160. As I thought

[EffieBlack]

165. You saw this family's color well enough to come here and announce you didn't notice they were mixed

Just saying.

[ecstatic]

172. lol. nt

[dware]

103. Well la dee da.

good for you, I personally don't hate anyone, it's a wasted emotion that eats at the soul.

Maybe you should try it some day.
Just sayin.

[mokawanis]

107. Sometimes I just like to sit back and watch people argue

[BannonsLiver]

114. You're trying too hard IMO.

[Happy Hoosier]

116. LOL... WUT?

C'mon, man....

[aidbo]

140. Lots of hurt dogs hollering in this thread.

“I would’ve voted for Obama a third time if I could have.”

[StarfishSaver]

147. You hear it, too?

[Kaleva]

151. I don't hate anyone. It's non-productive IMHO.

It's like letting others control one's emotions.

[aidbo]

153. Wow, very zen.

[Kaleva]

192. Not really. It's pretty easy not to let other's control your emotions.

[treestar]

200. You like this idea?

Is it satisfying?

What about the white people who don't care at all? Right wingers will not care. Is it frustrating it does not hurt their feelings?

What do you mean in the quote about Obama? White person signalling how cool they are by claiming they are so not racist? And you get the satisfaction of putting them down, even hurting their feelings, which you like, by telling them they still are racist? And you're so cooler because you are not? If you get to call other whites out like this, they can do it to you, or you aren't with the program.

Like the white privilege thing. The racists are fine with that. They think they are superior and deserve the privilege. So it's only to come down on those who are trying not to be. If we aren't hurt, we are racists, if we are, you're just glad to hurt us for once. But then it's not so bad as the sufferings of POC, right? So how great can it be? How much revenge is sated?

The OP is ultimately just bragging that he's not a Marjory Taylor Greene racist. Not much credit to just not being that.

[BannonsLiver]

145. Quick question

What if one is misanthropic and hates all people?

[aidbo]

158. This is the I hate white people thread if you want to hate all, start your own thread. 💫

[BannonsLiver]

159. Well that doesn't sound very inclusive.

[sir pball]

217. Like sibling says, start your own thread!

I hate my own folk and this is my stand! You wanna hate all humans, go start the Robot Revolution.

[BannonsLiver]

237. LOL

That would actually be more meaningful than this silly OP/Woke Off.

[Rustyeye77]

167. This is some damn thread

[aidbo]

170. But not *all* whites, right?

https://time.com/79357/not-all-men-a-brief-history-of-every-dudes-favorite-argument/

[sir pball]

219. Especially THOSE whites

Disgusting!

[Bucky]

171. Where's the button for hiding this thread?

[Hekate]

183. Right under the OP, bottom left, Trash Thread...

Yesterday it was already such a godsdamn ugly thread that I trashed it, and today I got called to jury one of the replies, so afterward I took the OP and thread back out of the trash to gauge the thread’s progress. Ironically, the post that was alerted on was such a mild rebuke that I had voted to let it stand. If one can possibly tell from a board with no Zoom features, it was from a wypipo to a (self-identified) non-wypipo and simply indicated (in my reading of it) that the two posters should agree to stop interacting with one another.

The OP and subsequent thread serve no purpose except to stir up animus among putative allies.

[Sympthsical]

175. In this thread: People who are OK with racism

I hope when people say, "I don't support racism," they realize it doesn't mean, "I don't support racism only if it happens against groups I like."

Fragility, privilege, etc. Being used nonsensically to justify racist sentiment. People can't woke their way out of not being bigoted. Not sure who told them they could.

Racism is racism. This isn't super difficult. If you wouldn't want it said about you, don't say it about others.

[BGBD]

181. I really can't believe that this is still up here

I think there would be universal condemnation on this board for an "I hate _____ (insert race here)" thread and it would be locked and removed within a few minutes. I thought that was the case anyway, but very clearly if it's about white people that's completely fine.

[Rustyeye77]

193. I totally agree

So I guess it’s ok to hate fucking white people

Pretty amazing

[gulliver]

180. This kind of juvenile sentiment discredits all the good causes liberals/progressives stand for

Setting back liberalism/progressivism is morally wrong. Ergo, this thread is morally wrong.

[tonedevil]

182. I can tell by the use of Ergo...

this is a serious and scientific conclusion.

[Sugarcoated]

188. Trashin this junk post

[Rustyeye77]

190. Should have been deleted but so be it

oh well

[fescuerescue]

191. And it's still here

That's a datapoint.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

205. I don't. But really do not trust albinos for shit........

[hunter]

218. I grew up in affluent 99 44/100 pure Ivory Soap Straight Christian White Boy World.

Quit high school and fled.

That was in the 'seventies.

There's no way in hell I'd ever go back.

[Rustyeye77]

220. Sir pball

Perhaps you want to comment on this thread?

[trof]

228. Oh bullshit.

I'm married to a 'White Person' and I love her very much.
Piss off.
This is click bait and I guess I fell for it but I just hadda.

[Dr. Strange]

232. I miss the old days.

Disruptors like philoslayer and zozosmom. They knew how to troll!

[Polybius]

234. I don't hate them

And I'm black.