Democrats consider impeachment alternatives after GOP signals likely acquittal of Trump

[orangecrush]

The prospect of likely acquittal for Donald Trump at his Senate trial has some Democrats contemplating an off-ramp that would condemn the former president but stop short of impeachment and a ban from future office.

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Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia said Wednesday that he has been exploring drafting a bipartisan censure of Trump that would short-circuit a potentially lengthy trial that could impede progress on other Democratic priorities.

“It could be an alternative,” he told reporters, saying he wanted the Senate to focus on responding to the coronavirus pandemic and confirming President Biden’s Cabinet. “To do a trial knowing you’ll get 55 votes at the max seems to me to be not the right prioritization of our time.”


Kaine’s focus on an alternative, which has been brewing since the House voted to impeach Trump over his role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, came a day after the vast majority of Republican senators signaled doubts about the constitutional basis for trying an ex-president on impeachment charges.

Nearly all GOP senators vote against impeachment trial for Trump, signaling likely acquittal

Forty-five of 50 Republican senators voted to back Trump on Tuesday. Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, who pushed the vote, said it showed that impeachment was “dead on arrival” in the Senate. Convicting Trump would require the support of 67 of 100 senators.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-consider-impeachment-alternatives-censure/2021/01/27/fdfd9b6c-60bd-11eb-afbe-9a11a127d146_story.html%3foutputType=amp




So, if this is to be believed, he is going to get away with it.

[Turin_C3PO]

1. It means he won't be convicted in the Senate.

Whether he’s held responsible criminally remains to be seen.

[onecaliberal]

2. Why do we always do this stupid shit.so now insurrection is not worthy of impeachment .

[orangecrush]

6. They literally

Were stopped from killing members of congress by gunfire.

They killed cops.

I am reeling in stunned disbelief that the orange jackass will see no consequences, and will be even more encouraged to incite violence in the future.

[Walleye]

40. It broke my heart to hear about the cops that were injured because they didn't have helmets, and the

One who lost his eye. I don’t even think these Republicans are human anymore.

[onecaliberal]

44. Can't say what I'm thinking. Just fucking hell.

[SergeStorms]

10. It makes me wonder...

exactly what would a republican president have to do to warrant impeachment? We know what a Democrat would have to do. Anything more dangerous than jaywalking would be grounds for immediate impeachment.

[ananda]

13. There is nothing a Reep prez can do that would warrant impeachment.

They are that treasonous, compromised, and cowardly.

[triron]

59. Bringing a butter knife to a gunfight again.

And very stupid and short sighted.

[exboyfil]

3. No.

Lay out your best case, and let history judge their vote.

[lagomorph777]

5. And if the GOP fails the test, hang it on their necks. Then hit Trump with the 14th Amendment.

[Midnight Writer]

11. Exactly. We need a public hearing in the Senate to show the people evidence of his crimes.

The Right Wing have their media megaphones and their people watch nothing else.

They may step out of their bubble to watch the trial of Dear Leader. Who knows? Maybe they will learn something.

Should we forego trying a criminal just because a conviction will be tough?

[Demsrule86]

22. The evidence is out there. I heard this argument before the first impeachment. It won't make a

difference. Those who choose to see the truth already have other are not persuadable. Personally, I would censure him and moves on. Time is of the essence. McConnell will waste months on this and for what? Acquittal...Trump declaring himself innocent?

[Midnight Writer]

56. The POTUS leads a conspiracy to violently overturn our elected government. Let's move on?

I just can't bring myself to agree with you on that.

By the way, in November, over 90% of Republicans wanted Trump for a second term. Today, that number is down to 56%.
Most of that slide took place after the insurrection. Biden's approval in his first week is near 60%, meaning that some of Trump's mid forties base of support are at least willing to acknowledge Biden's competency.

Despite his disastrous Presidency, arguably the worst in our history, Trump actually got over ten million MORE votes in 2020 than in 2016. His support was growing. Now it is shrinking. That is the worst time to let off the pressure. When your opponent is staggering is the time to punch him harder.

We can at least embarrass the GOP's corporate donors for supporting the Party of insurrection.

McConnell will continue his Grim Reaper methods regardless of impeachment. Or anything else. It is what he does.

I believe there is much more evidence to come that will prove Donald Trump is a traitor to our country. That evidence deserves a public hearing in the most high profile forum in the land.

There are more Donald Trumps on the horizon, conceivably taking power in as few as four years. Shall we signal to them that if they try the same stunts that they are subject to no more than a demerit on their score card?

[orangecrush]

12. This I agree with.

His will allow the discovery and presentation of evidence.

Another cop who was there just commited suicide, for God's sake.

[Demsrule86]

24. How long will this take to get absolutely nowhere? The evidence will come out in trials too.

[orangecrush]

66. It's going to come out a lot faster

And with a lot more public exposure in the Senate trial,


Because there is going to be one.

[ace3csusm]

20. I second that, show your case let them vote ...

When the mob comes in for round 2 ... trials have consequences you can chose which road you want to take this country...

[groundloop]

48. At the risk of sounding like a GOPer we need to play this for maximum political advantage

Absolutely Benedict Donald should be convicted (as he should have been the first time). GOPers are more than likely not going to act in the best interest of the country, so given that Benedict Donald will skate free again the least we can do is get as much political advantage as possible out of this.

[SoonerPride]

4. He was always going to get away with it. No surpise there.

What, you thought republicans had integrity or something?

[Iliyah]

7. There will be a trial with witnesses and discovery . . .

It's the talking point of the RWers.

[FakeNoose]

8. Make the GOP Senators vote, get their "Yea" or "Nay" on record

That's what they don't want to do. They want to hide behind Chump, McConnell, or whoever they can find to use as a shield. It will be their votes that matter. What are they afraid of anyway?

Maybe they're afraid they'll be expelled from the Senate? Or censured?
Hmmmm.....

[TheRealNorth]

18. Exactly

Make the Republican's vote and say sedition and murder are no big deal when we (Republicans) do it.

[Demsrule86]

25. And that helps us how exactly?

[TwilightZone]

49. They're already on record.

They just voted to declare the impeachment unconstitutional. If you want a record, there you go.

Conviction would fail with the same vote, 55-45.

[KayF]

9. the point is to get Kaine's senator friends on the record

including Susan Collins.

Divide the GOP. Make them pay for Trump.

I'd support the censure if it divides and damages the GOP, but I suspect it doesn't. I suspect Kaine doesn't like seeing his GOP senator friends in such a tough spot. I may be wrong.

[orangecrush]

16. Sounds rational

Nothing else does.

[Demsrule86]

26. You are wrong and unfair. This is Democratic Underground we support Democrats.

The fact is we won't convict Trump and if we continue with the trial and waste weeks or months...what is the point. At the end, he will declare victory...better to censure him and condemn the GOP for not doing more and move on. We don't have time to tilt at windmills.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. I'm supporting the Democrats who want to do a full Senate trial.

I believe it would be to out political advantage because it's the biggest platform available for laying out T's crimes, and it will force the Rs to put themselves on the record as being okay with that criminality.

You can call that an "anti-Democratic" position, but I strongly disagree with you.

[orangecrush]

64. I'm with you.

Enough is enough.

[Tommymac]

61. And to get SWORN Testimony and evidence about 1-6. There is none right now.

Speaking under oath is a whole 'nother ball game then tweeting or Media interviews.

Regardless of the outcome we need legal sworn statements about the events of 1-6, and those leading up to it and the aftermath, to be read into the record.

The outcome is important, but giving the public the real story is just as important.

[LuvLoogie]

14. How about keel hauling?

I kind of like that alternative.

[mikeysnot]

15. Spineless republicans, what does trump have on these fucks...

[bdamomma]

41. tRump

the mob boss neutering his mob. They will be on the wrong side of law and order, which they have none.

[BeyondGeography]

17. So if you lose an election, you can manufacture an insurrection and avoid an impeachment trial

As long as, you know, you have enough people cowed in your own party to avoid a 2/3 vote against. Because, time management?

Great precedent, Timmie.

[Demsrule86]

28. And if we waste months on this with the evidence blah blah...and the GOP present lies as well to.

further inflame voters? Best to let Justice deal with this and may a commission. This is to slow down our agenda...they are betting we lose in 2022...and we might if we don't move forward with the pandemic relief and other legislation.

[Mr. Ected]

19. Let the process takes its course and use the results to campaign like hell in '22 and '24

This isn't just about Donald J. Trump. It's about a political party that runs its business on lies, propaganda and hyperbole. They must be stopped. This isn't about politics. It's about an existential threat to our democracy.

[Demsrule86]

29. That will not help us in 22. People who are not political junkies care about the economy,

health care and the pandemic. Those are our issues.

[tableturner]

21. Force GOP senators to vote in favor of a coup to end democracy!

Make them show support for the insurrection/coup, the installation of Trump as dictator, and the end of democracy. At least force them to vote for all of that so it can be recorded in the country's history, and then in future elections, they can be attacked as fascist enabling anti-democracy thugs.

[Demsrule86]

30. Obviously that won't hurt them with their voters.

[tableturner]

35. But it would solidify revulsion of centrist voters toward the GOP.

[Demsrule86]

38. Centrist voters already feel revulsion...and they are more likely to be concerned with legislature.

Biden ran on getting things done...we must do that.

[TwilightZone]

52. Most centrist voters left the GOP years ago.

More of them left after the insurrection.

Everyone already knows where the Senators stand, based on the constitutional vote.

[BlueTsunami2018]

23. There was never a chance he wouldn't walk on this.

The Republicans are simply too afraid of their base to do the right thing. They always have been. Thus the old adage “Republicans are terrified of their base and Democrats hate theirs.”

They want to keep their jobs, Тяцмр owns these people lock, stock and barrel. If the terrorist mob had killed members of Congress they still wouldn’t go against the boss.

But we should put them on record, for all the good that will do.

[Demsrule86]

31. But we need a quick trial. We can't waste time on this.

[Sprite]

27. Go forward with the trial. Let the world see all the evidence.

If the Republicans vote against impeachment it will confirm what we all know - they have no courage. They are the slimy bastards they portray each and everyday. The only one who will be laughing is Putin. Is that what they want? May be it is.

[Demsrule86]

32. We already know and this isn't going to convince those on the other side.

[Chainfire]

33. If there is strong enough evidence for a conviction on criminal charges against Trump

then it needs to be put in the Justice Department's hands, just like with any other criminal organization. Of course, if that is the case the Republicans will be screaming, "Unconstitutional" you should have impeached him instead.

I am not even overly concerned with getting a conviction in criminal court as long as all of the truth can come out and be placed squarely in front of our people and before history. It doesn't matter to me if Trump ever serves a day in jail, there are far more important issues at stake than his personal future. Trump, as a person, is inconsequential compared to the underlying problem we are facing.

If we do not get the truth in front of the American people about what a dangerous path our Democracy is treading, we will not survive as a nation. Failure will bring first Fascism in all of its worst forms, and then a total destruction of everything that we have ever attempted to be or do. If you want to see what the collapse of our nation would look like, read some on the siege of Leningrad, but then imagine it on a national scale, and not limited to just 900 days. It is difficult, heart rending, reading.

Our biggest enemy is within. Our external enemies will simply wait to pick up the pieces of a failed nation after we have become too weak to fight back. This process has repeated countless times through history. We are not so special as to be immune.

[Vinca]

34. The only alternative is indictment on criminal charges that will lead to a prison sentence.

It could happen anyway.

[BeyondGeography]

45. +1

[spanone]

37. Expose republicans for the insurrectionists they are. Make them fucking vote.

[bdamomma]

47. but you know

if they took this vote behind closed doors that would be another story. Repigs cowards all.

[spanone]

51. Yes they are....cowards one and all.

[TwilightZone]

53. We already know how they'll vote. So does everyone else.

55-45.

[spanone]

55. Make them vote their devotion to trump. Live on television.

After the trial where he is shown to be the cause of the insurrection.

[keithbvadu2]

39. " but stop short of impeachment" - Now, pay attention.

" but stop short of impeachment"

He has already been impeached.

He has already been impeached.

He has already been impeached.

He has already been impeached.

He has already been impeached.

So many articles that don't know that.

[Thekaspervote]

42. Seems a good idea, unfortunately the pukes won't go for the lesser either

So, let the trial go forward.

[EarlG]

43. This article is spin city!

Okay, first the title:

Democrats consider impeachment alternatives after GOP signals likely acquittal of Trump.

There is only one Democrat cited as considering an impeachment alternative in this article, so the title should really read "Democrat considers impeachment alternatives after GOP signals likely acquittal of Trump."

Actually though, even that's not quite right. The first paragraph states:

"The prospect of likely acquittal for Donald Trump at his Senate trial has some Democrats contemplating an off-ramp that would condemn the former president but stop short of impeachment..."

Trump has already been impeached, twice in fact.

And note that "some Democrats" are referenced here, even though Kaine is the only one mentioned in the article.

Further down the article we get to the real truth of the matter:

“Make no mistake, there will be a trial, and the evidence against the former president will be presented in living color for the nation and every one of us to see once again.” Senate Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Wednesday.

[Mme. Defarge]

46. Merci!

[Mr.Bill]

57. The impeachment has already happened.

There is no "alternative".

[stillcool]

50. I hope this stays a thought experiment...

The talk of impeachment threatening elections in 2022 is laughable, and is being used on both sides of the argument. There is no good reason why the Republican party, through impeachment, should not be held accountable. Let's all move on by going through the process of impeachment, and accountability. After all, if nothing changes, nothing changes.

[struggle4progress]

54. Continue and put all the Nazis on record

[davsand]

58. If he skates on it in Senate seems like Justice could still press charges.

After all, DEMS control Justice now. Take that bloated pendejo to trial for sedition. Let a jury decide his fate. Seems to me that a conviction in a court of law could result in some jail time, and that seems fitting if his pet Senators lack any spine. It begs the question, if he's convicted of a federal crime, will he then be prohibited from voting in Florida?





Laura

[Klaralven]

60. Open the trial, read the charges, and then table it for 6 months.

[Crunchy Frog]

63. It sounds like the Rs really, REALLY don't want the impeachment trial to go forward.

I wonder what it is that they're so scared of? I say that we find out. I will be VERY disappointed if the Dems cave on this.

[orangecrush]

65. I agree.

They really, really don't want this trial to happen.

So let's make it happen.

[triron]

67. How stupid can they be (the democrats) is the question.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

68. Hold it anyway

It'll indentify the traitors in Congress. Plus there's no guarentee any of them would vote for a censure.

[orangecrush]

69. Make them wear donnie the plague.