My Brother's rant on FB

[flotsam]

So, I was listening to my personally signed copy of Lee Greenwoods CD(can't do that with a usb) God bless the USA. Got it in Branson Missouri at a military reunion a few years back. Was thinking of America today, So Sad ! Back when I was drafted and went to war, we didn't believe in the war, but our country sent us, so we went. Today, people claiming to be patriots, riot in D.C.. Although they have NEVER done anything to earn that Patriot tag, they follow the most unpatriotic leader ever. While my brothers were fighting and losing their lives in Vietnam, trump was screwing every hooker he could lay his greasy hands on, even telling Howard Stern in an interview that avoiding getting a venereal disease from these hookers was his private Vietnam and probably more dangerous. A man who has NEVER done anything for this country except cheat and steal from anyone who's path he's crossed now has a following of racist and Nazi's who CLAIM to be patriots ! WOW has America really sunk this low? I am ashamed! think of the young men of my generation laying down there lives for THIS???? So Sad. Does anyone remember JFK's speech,"Do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" Grow up people !

Edit for typo

[Progressive Jones]

1. THIS !!!

[handmade34]

2. yup... you deserve a hug

[redstatebluegirl]

3. Amazing, I wish my brother felt this way.

He served two tours in Vietnam and went to the dark side and followed Trump down the rabbit hole a couple of years ago. He had been a republican since he got back from his first tour, but was a "normal Republican" until the past few years. I have stopped talking to him, which hurts a lot, but it has to be. He is batshit crazy right now.

Thank goodness for your brother!

[wnylib]

12. That happened to my brother, too.

He was always a Republican, but not always an extremist. He was older than me, so he was in the military while I was still in high school. He stayed in the service and made it his career (non-com).

I remember him emphasizing to me when I took civics that the civilian leadership of the military, by the CIC, prevented military dictatorships. When he returned from 2 years in Vietnam, he was disturbed that anti war protesters were villified and arrested. He said that he fought for the free speech of everyone.

When changing the voting age from 21 to 18 was being discussed, he opposed it in the belief that 18 year olds were not mature enough to make such important decisions. He asked me if I wanted to see a rock star or a TV or film actor in the White House, which he said was the kind of choice 18 year olds would make.

Then, in 1980, he voted proudly for Reagan. My brother was 37 at the time, old enough by his prior reasoning to know better. Later, he became a staunch supporter of Trump. For the sake of peace in the family, I ignored his political comments and focused solely on family news when talking to him. But one day his comments were so outrageous that I responded with my views, very strongly. He stopped all contact with me.

A few weeks later he died.

My SIL said he had become radicalized by pamphlets he brought home that had been distributed among the military, years before he retired. Then he followed those groups online.

He had gone from a rational conservative to a radicalized extremist.

[RVN VET71]

18. I voted for Richard Nixon while stationed in Nam

Nothing against the Democrats -- although HHH did serve as VP to the man who, after all, got us into the mess so deeply we couldn’t get out, so there was that. Besides, Nixon “had a plan” a real, well though out plan that he and Henry K. had concocted that could end the war, but only if we elected him. So I voted for him.

Talk about naive. Of course I voted for George McGovern next election and Jimmy Carter after that. Then I voted for Reagan, foolishly, because Carter had not really been effective as a president (he became a man I admire to the utmost after his term in office, of course) and voted for the wrong party for the last time. After that it was Mondale, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton, and Biden. (You’ll notice I didn’t mention Dukakis or Senior Bush because I sat out that election, bitter, actually, about the manner in which Dukakis undermined the campaign of Joe Biden.)

I will never vote Republican again. I won’t recuse myself from voting in any election where the Republicans need to be opposed -- and that will be any election in which a Republican is running -- and will vote against the Republican even in instances where (as with Dukakis) I feel repelled by the Democratic candidate.

What I’m saying is not every Vietnam Vet has turned sour on America after experiencing the bloody ugliness of LBJ’s terrible mistake. Nor has every Nam Vet turned in absolute confusion and fear to Trump and his ilk. I saw the error of my ways when I came home, saw them again with a vengeance when race-baiting Ronnie showed his true colors and Lee Atwater explained to Republican politicians not that racism was bad, mind you, but that they shouldn’t use the n-word when catering to their growing racist base. Once Bush Jr. stole -- yes, I said that -- the election twice: from Al Gore and then from John Kerry I made a vow that the entirety of the GOP could go to hell. After seeing the smirking mother fu**ers at the GOP convention for Bush Jrs second term, smirking because they had fucking bandaids on their saggy fat faces to mock John Kerry’s metals for bravery, I branded my soul as an anti-Republican and considered that brand the same as being anti-nazi, anti-fascist, and anti-KKK-racist.

There’s my journey from Nixon to Bernie and, of course, to AOC, whom I love like a doting and proud father might love his most intelligent, compassionate, and beautiful daughter. (Had to get that last bit in there because I am a huge admirer of this woman who I hope to be able to vote into the WH some day, if I live long enough.)

[wnylib]

19. I don't think it was disillusionment

from Vietnam service that radicalized my brother. He was always conservative in his views, even as a teen, before he graduated and enlisted. My immediate family were all liberals. It started with teen rebellion against my father and turning to conservative teachers and sports coaches for role models.

But he was not extremist then, and not when he returned from Vietnam, either. He did experience some disillusionment after his 2 years there, but that was under Nixon.

He just kept leaning more and more to the right. According to my SIL, after he retired from the service, young enough to keep working, he had problems adjusting to civilian life in civilian jobs. Instead of admitting that he might need help for his PTSD, he listened to political extremists who were happy to tell him whom to blame for any personal problems. It was downhill from there.

[RVN VET71]

26. A shame. I'm sorry to hear about his struggles.

Actually, I supported Pete Buttigieg for the nomination. I’m happy Biden was nominated and, looking back at the election, I don’t know if Mayor Pete could have beaten Cadet Bonespurs, even with the ugly failure of Trump to do anything about the pandemic -- anything, that is, that wouldn’t profit him or his family.

Also, I was pretty conservative myself back in the day. I supported Barry Goldwater back in ’64, but that was when I didn’t know shit from shingle about politics and the real needs of the American people, especially the underclass. I supported Goldwater because, as some few of us still remember, he said he had a plan for ending our military presence in Vietnam. I think it amounted to just pulling our troops out because there was no path to victory, no objective -- other than enriching the usual pigs and plutocrats (but I repeat myself). From that to supporting Berni in 2015 was quite an evolution!

[wnylib]

29. Goldwater to Sanders is definitely a change

on the left- right spectrum. But manybe it also reflects a consistency of preferring the outlyer, the guy on the edge rather than center. Neither one of them is even just a little left or right of center bur a lot in either direction.

I was still in high school during Goldwater's. campaign, but as I remember, there was some concern that his solution for Vietnam was to go full blast (literally) in bombing, to the point of a nuke. I think it was that concern and criticism of him that prompted his famous response about extremism and the defense of liberty.

I was not fond of Humphrey, but not because of his connection to Johnson and the war. I think Humphrey would have de-escalated the war, but as Johnson's VP he was tagged as a hawk. I just didn't like Humphrey's personality. He came across to me as a canned politician, lacking sincerity. But, I was only 15 so what did I know? I liked Johnson's domestic policies, but hated his foreign policy in SE Asia. It was years later that I understood why his generation (and my parents') were so concerned with appeasement and the domino theory, due to WWII.

But Kennedy had it right when he said we should not engage in warfare that was not supported by the native population of the country. He said it about Cuba and was starting to talk that way about Vietnam just before he was murdered.

[RVN VET71]

31. I remember the concerns about the bomb

Johnson’s famous commercial with the little girl picking daisies when, in the background, there’s an explosion and mushroom cloud. But I remember him saying, basically, that we would either be all in or all out. So the subject of nuking Vietnam -- god what a thought! -- was left hanging. But I really felt at the time that his path would have been “all out”. We’ll never know.

And I’ve mellowed a shitload since Nam about Johnson. I regard him now as an extraordinarily complex man, a compassionate son of a bitch who honestly cared about the underclass, Mexican, African American, and white, and managed to cajole enough Republicans to pass a civil rights bill and get medicare started. His legacy is mixed because of Vietnam and I think he died literally broken hearted because of it.

(And, yeah I felt unimpressed by Humphrey and felt there wasn’t much genuine sincerity in him. I think I was wrong and have since regretted casting my first ever vote for the 2nd most infamous president of the last hundred years, distant 2nd at that.)

[wnylib]

32. I grew up in a very Democratic city, Erie, PA.

In my senior year (1967), Humphrey came to Erie during the primaries. His motorcade was due to pass by my high school around 2:30 pm. The principal let us all out early so we could line the street to wave as he passed. I got close enough to get a brief handshake in passing. It was so clammy that my hand was soaked. I got a close look at his face. His smile was mechanical, no eye contact. He reminded me of a robot with human skin.

Not a fair assessment, maybe. He might have been just tired. Or preoccupied. But it left a negative impression on me. Anyway, I was 18 by election day, but the voting age had not yet been changed, so I could not vote in the 1968 election.

My first vote was 1972. No way in hell would I have voted for Nixon. I still remembered his campaign against Kennedy in 1960, even though I was only 10 at the time. Our teachers were getting us to pay attention to current events and follow the campaign.

Besides, I had heard the first, early reports of the Watergate breakin on our local radio station's hourly news. Then it disappeared rapidly from the news. I could not find coverage again when I tried to get my sister and parents to listen later that evening. I was convinced that it was a big deal, which, of course, it later turned out to be. But right through to election day, it was mostly ignored. I couldn't believe it.

Regarding in person contact with politicians, I had moved to NY state by the time Hillary ran for the Senate in 2000. I was able to meet her in person at a Dem rally for her. Contrary to criticisms about her being aloof, I found her to be very personable and sincerely interested in hearing what people had to say. She was relaxed, informal, and did not have a plastered on smile. She was serious when discussing serious issues. She smiled right up to the eyes when comments brought a smile to her face. She walked along an entire line of people to shake hands with each one and did not rush. If someone in the line asked a question, she paused to talk briefly with them before moving on. She connected to people in person in ways that did not show when she was on TV.

[RVN VET71]

34. I shared your outrage about Watergate when it first appeared in the media

And I was also stunned and furious when it vanished, suddenly, from public eye. The Washington Post got a lot of well deserved credit for what it finally published, but, seriously, there was plenty that should have been headlined well before Woodward and Bernstein reporting.

Nice to hear about your brief encounter with Mrs. Clinton. I’ve always had mixed feelings about her, ever since she backed a bill limiting, among other things, a citizen’s right to file bankruptcy to get relief from credit card debt. But I voted for her happily in 2016 and would have voted for her in 2008 had not Obama surged to the nomination. (Yes, I voted most eagerly and happily for him in 2008 and 2012 -- and would have done so again in 2016 if only the constitution allowed it.)

It’s been a long strange trip to reach the nadir of governance Trump delivered us. It’ll be a longer trip back to where we were, back when America was actually trying to be great.

[wnylib]

35. I voted for Obama in the 2008 primary.

I was unhappy over Hillary's vote on the Iraq War. When Obama got the nomination, I did phone banking and door to door visits for his campaign.

It was more than the Iraq war vote that made me choose Obama, though. I saw him on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno and was immediately impresssed with his demeanor. He had that "it," that something that says leadership and ability that I look for in presidents. I bought Audacity of Hope and was sold on him.

I did not think that Hillary could not do the job. I just preferred Obama between the two of them. She had an edge on Obama in experience, but his intelligence, demeanor, and even his wit and humor just screamed out "leadership" to me.

I phone banked for Obama again in 2012.

In 2016 I went for Hillary in the primary and in the general election. In primaries, I don't decide solely on a candidate's ideas. A lot of them have good ideas. But I look at their experience and knowledge of the various departments and duties that a president must be able to work with and manage. Hillary's experience and knowledge were broad based, which, IMO, made her the most qualified for the job.

Between Hillary and Trump, there was no question of who was best able to lead the country. It was a no brainer. Not only did she have the experience and knowledge, but the stamina to handle all the ridiculus charges and complaints thrown at her. She was probably the most vetted candidate we have ever had, considering all the hearings and investigations the Republicans tried to tarnish her with. She would have won easily without foreign interference. But her administration would have been plagued with all the vitriol that R's always threw at her. Still, she paved the way for women and will always be known for that achievement among others.

At least oldsters like us have seen good governance and candidates. We know what a good leader is and can accomplish. I am glad to see that younger folks are catching on. They have seen Obama and now Biden and Harris. They can compare Trump to them. It will be a long time before the fascist movement is completely crushed. But we can do it.

[Traildogbob]

4. Patriots?

The real Patriots draped in a flag come home dead in a box from war. These assholes draping themselves in the flag are a disgrace. There are rules about how that flag should not be abused. That is one of them.

[RVN VET71]

16. Also it is wrong to try to kill a police officer with one

I mean, it’s wrong to try to kill a police officer in any case. But using a flag-pole bearing the Stars and Stripes to beat a cop grabbed by a bloodthirsty mob of violent traitors shows your true, traitorous mettle, I think.

[BobTheSubgenius]

20. That issue - admittedly a side issue in this current political climate - just chaps my ass.

Obviously, as a Canadian, I don't venerate the Stars and Stripes the way you do, but I DO recognize important symbols of belonging and pride, and I feel a hell of a lot more patriotic than I think those asshats are. Claiming to be so patriotic, vilifying those who would burn the flag in protests. While I recognize why people would feel resentful about that, it's still a way better use of it than wrapping yourself in it while you burn the country down.

[Traildogbob]

21. Not a flag worshipper.

Had it on my uniform but I do not bow to it. But there are “suggested” limits on what is considered respect of how it is displayed and used. As a vet, seeing bothers and sisters return in a box, with the flag draped over them as recognition for their ultimate sacrifice and the country they sacrificed for, it chaps my ass to see these treasonous pricks attacking and threatening to bring down our country while draped in that flag, Flying that shit stain blue flag with the treasoner in chiefs name on it, next to the stars and strips. A draft dodger, claiming he served and suffered more trying to avoid STD.
At our current state, I dispose the chant, USA USA, and because I see the flag flown with these idiots so much, I am not a fan of the flag right now.
In the worlds eyes, our flag represents corruption, lies, disloyalty to friends, ass kisser to foes. My generation from Vietnam era, burned it quit a few times. I respected that right. The war was bullshit.

[malaise]

5. The truth

Great rant

[flotsam]

6. I'm sorry

My brother is an actual good guy. He did Vietnam and proudly. Long career as a firefighter. He's now retired with his wife of nearly 50 years and whatever his ghosts he has so far won. Kinda guy who makes you proud to hang with and fun to spend time with. I wish everybody had at least one sibling so inspiring.

[AllaN01Bear]

7. yes.

[KT2000]

8. Excellent!

Sending to my brother-in-law.

[ad121rome]

9. National Service

Thank you for your service. I also was drafted but could not pass the physical, my loss. I think we need to restore the draft, everyone is included. We can all service our country in some fashion for at least two years. If you serve longer then offer reduced rate college or trade school after you complete your service. At least then we would all know what real service to the country is about and be extra careful about war mongering.

[SWBTATTReg]

10. Thank your brother for his service for us and our Country here on DU. And thank you for the rant,

It's pathetic that these thugs try to use descriptive titles in describing themselves, without earning them. "Proud Boys" is a gay term, and "Patriots" is a adjective for military veterans who served for our Country.

[Evolve Dammit]

11. Just losers and suckers to Cadet Bonespurs. Not to us.

[Pepsidog]

13. I hate that song, it's the White Nationalist anthem. Fake patriots.

[flotsam]

14. My brother likes it

and I assure you he is neither.

[Pepsidog]

22. I loved it to before Trump appropriated it and played it before all his rallies.

[11 Bravo]

24. I try not to allow shit heads to determine what I appreciate.

YMMV.

[NHvet]

15. Me too

I also hate when people thank me for my service now that its the fashionable thing to do and say.. Almost all would never have raised their own hand and done the things I did for my country but their glad I did, yeah right! I went in right after Vietnam, and I remember how I was treated then for wearing the uniform of my country.

[Traildogbob]

23. 🤜🏼🤛🏼

Preach! Was not Vogue to thank us for our service. I Would never wear my uniform when I did not half too. But then, the hair cut stereotyped you as a freak killer with mental instability.

[soldierant]

25. I don't hate the song, just what they have done in co-opting it.

"I'd gladly stand up next to you" - no, you wouldn't. Give me a break.

Same like Christianity and the bible. Yes, throughout history there have been people who only cared about using it to steal from others and screw them over. But there have also been people who got it and lived it. And, incidentally, died for it.

Of course the same is true for Islam and Judaism and Buddhism and Shinto and Taoism and Hinduism and every religion once it gets big enough to be exploitable. It isn't the doctrine or the essence that's the problem with religion, it's the grifters.

Our language doesn't have a word that fully describes the users and grifters. The hypocrites. The counterfeits. The cult leaders.

[flotsam]

28. + many! N/T

[iluvtennis]

17. KnR. nt

[Skittles]

27. excellent rant

I too fail to see the patriotsm in following a draft dodging, pussy grabbing con man....no INDEED

[Meowmee]

30. 👍🏻👏🏻

[PatrickforO]

33. Good rant.

Trump is vile, evil.