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fleur-de-lisa

(14,624 posts)
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 05:39 PM Feb 2021

Sen. Warren will introduce legislation implementing a wealth tax on fortunes over $50 million.

Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1 (MSNBC)

Sen. Warren announces that she's joining the Senate Finance Committee and will be introducing "legislation implementing a wealth tax on fortunes over $50 million."

3:31 PM · Feb 2, 2021


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Sen. Warren will introduce legislation implementing a wealth tax on fortunes over $50 million. (Original Post) fleur-de-lisa Feb 2021 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Feb 2021 #1
Wealth tax is the way to go. safeinOhio Feb 2021 #2
Loopholes done right are good ... Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2021 #21
Too many loopholes for a wealth tax dansolo Feb 2021 #30
This won't get passed thanks to Manchin and Sinema. Nt Fiendish Thingy Feb 2021 #3
Have either commented on this yet? Budi Feb 2021 #7
If Manchin won't vote for relief for the poorest in WV Fiendish Thingy Feb 2021 #10
Manchin has said he will vote for relief. So please saying he won't. Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #40
Really have they said that? Please stop taking shots at Democrats. Without Manchin and Sinema, Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #39
Manchin and Sinema won't vote to kill the filibuster, so Mitch & Co can block wealth tax Fiendish Thingy Feb 2021 #48
The polls say it's popular. My Pet Orangutan Feb 2021 #4
Uh oh. Sarandon didn't make the cut-off Budi Feb 2021 #6
I don't think she would be opposed to this. nt Gore1FL Feb 2021 #11
She says nothing positive if it begins with the Democrats & Joe Biden, Pelosi or Schumer. Budi Feb 2021 #12
Taxes is the topic, not Democrats & Joe Biden, Pelosi or Schumer. Gore1FL Feb 2021 #13
Doesn't matter the topic. It only matters who says it to her & her peeps Budi Feb 2021 #14
Wake me up when this is something other than fantasy. nt Gore1FL Feb 2021 #15
Snooze on. No one is required to reply to another. Budi Feb 2021 #17
I usually reply to the baseless "let's be divisive" posts. Gore1FL Feb 2021 #18
Baseless? Budi Feb 2021 #19
yeah, baseless. Gore1FL Feb 2021 #20
Susan's a victim now? I gave you a link. Budi Feb 2021 #22
Your link had nothing to do with your current claim Gore1FL Feb 2021 #24
Her claims of Trump bringing the Revolution & things will really explode is pretty dang Budi Feb 2021 #25
That's not the claim Gore1FL Feb 2021 #26
I refer you back to post #15 Budi Feb 2021 #27
Exactly. Gore1FL Feb 2021 #28
All I said was that Sarandon, worth $60 milliom didn't make Warrens's $50 mill cut off Budi Feb 2021 #29
I am sure your choice of Susan Sarandon as someone affected was totally a random choice. Gore1FL Feb 2021 #31
Haaahaa. Ok, Now you're SURE of what I REALLY meant. Budi Feb 2021 #32
I am only sure that your post brought up someone that had no direct connection with the article and Gore1FL Feb 2021 #35
My post was about Sen Warren slapping a TAX on the multimillionare celebrity elitsts. Budi Feb 2021 #36
I don't consider Budi's post out of line...Sarandon whom I despise would be subject to a wealth Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #38
Susan Sarandon: 'I thought Hillary was very dangerous. If she'd won, we'd be at war' Gothmog Feb 2021 #34
Here is the deal for me. I despise Susan...and always will...just like I despise Nader... Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #41
But, do you despise her so much that you bring her up in unrelated conversations? Gore1FL Feb 2021 #51
I fully support the findings of the UK Wealth Tax Commission WarGamer Feb 2021 #5
This isn't the UK...probably unconstitutional here. Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #42
Harsh truth SunStar Feb 2021 #8
A Wealth Tax Is Constitutional - American Bar Association Celerity Feb 2021 #23
You don't address the 1895 ruling and precedent. Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #44
Of course I did, you must not have read the ABA article, Pollock is dead and the 16th Amendment was Celerity Feb 2021 #45
That amendment made income tax an exception. It didn't destroy Pollack. And with this court, Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #47
no one said we cannot do both Celerity Feb 2021 #50
Good bdamomma Feb 2021 #9
Warren's energy on this is misplaced, in my opinion Massacure Feb 2021 #16
Nate Silver/538-Warren's Wealth Tax Isn't The Slam Dunk Progressives Want It To Be Gothmog Feb 2021 #33
I don't know if this will be upheld in court...I would rather see the tax laws changed. Demsrule86 Feb 2021 #37
What a fine idea to allow mega-wealthy Americans the opportunity to PufPuf23 Feb 2021 #43
The Democratic Party should include only one exception... WyattKansas Feb 2021 #46
I don't think the federal government can tax wealth. twin_ghost Feb 2021 #49

Response to fleur-de-lisa (Original post)

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,345 posts)
21. Loopholes done right are good ...
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:27 AM
Feb 2021

The original idea was to encourage putting money back into circulation in ways that would grow the economy -- if you benefit from the commons, make the commons better.

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
30. Too many loopholes for a wealth tax
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 07:23 AM
Feb 2021

I hope she adds in a lot more funding for the IRS into her bill, because enforcement is going to be a major issue. I'd rather see her focus on a financial transaction tax. Easier to implement and enforce, and will probably raise a lot more revenue.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,611 posts)
10. If Manchin won't vote for relief for the poorest in WV
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 07:45 PM
Feb 2021

He certainly won’t support a wealth tax.

Wall St. Will push back hard on this, but I’m glad Warren is putting it out for a vote anyway.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
39. Really have they said that? Please stop taking shots at Democrats. Without Manchin and Sinema,
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:46 PM
Feb 2021

McConnell would be in control and no doubt passing a new tax cut for the rich. Also, do you think a wealth tax would be upheld in court-particularly a rightwing court - given the 1895 ruling? I don't.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,611 posts)
48. Manchin and Sinema won't vote to kill the filibuster, so Mitch & Co can block wealth tax
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 04:41 PM
Feb 2021

I don’t think Schumer has the courage to try and ram this through reconciliation, so it can be filibustered.

Not sure Sinema and Manchin would vote for the bill in any case.

My Pet Orangutan

(9,249 posts)
4. The polls say it's popular.
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 05:49 PM
Feb 2021

It's worth having the debate.

I would prefer 2c per dollar above $100 million, and 3c above 1 billion.

Nice round numbers.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
6. Uh oh. Sarandon didn't make the cut-off
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 06:19 PM
Feb 2021

Susan Sarandon Net Worth:
Susan Sarandon is an American actress who has a net worth of $60 million.
Net Worth: $60 Million
wiki..


Will have to peek at her twitter.😬
Look out Liz!


 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
12. She says nothing positive if it begins with the Democrats & Joe Biden, Pelosi or Schumer.
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 09:15 PM
Feb 2021

... she wanted things to 'really explode'!!
Well, they sure did.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
13. Taxes is the topic, not Democrats & Joe Biden, Pelosi or Schumer.
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 09:18 PM
Feb 2021

Though, I suspect that was hyperbole.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
17. Snooze on. No one is required to reply to another.
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 09:41 PM
Feb 2021

I'm well aware of multimillionare Sarandon who remains unharmed while campaigning for the the country to 'burn it all down' & hoping that 'things will really explode'.


Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
18. I usually reply to the baseless "let's be divisive" posts.
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 09:57 PM
Feb 2021

When your speculation becomes a reality, be sure to let me know and I'll admit that I was wrong.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
19. Baseless?
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:15 AM
Feb 2021

Susan Sarandon: "Trump win could bring 'revolution immediately'"

Susan Sarandon, 'because Trump may 'bring the revolution' and 'things will really explode.'

She sits with $60 million worth & well protected from those who have had to exist & suffer & die as the country was wasted away under Trump, culminating in a revolution of his making in Jan 6th.

What a grand explosion it was, Susan! Is she satisfied? Was it all she hoped for? Was the "burn it all down" that she advocated for enough for her?

She didn't lose her business, job, family, food to feed her family, mortgage.
She's worth $60 million. Watching it "really explode" was sport to her detached life as a multimillionare with pensions, stock portfolios, investments.

4 years of Trump's revolution only affected other people.
Not her.

I hope Senator Warren pushes for even higher taxes for the sorry socialite multimillionare like Sarandon the actress, who sat there big eyed & giddy as she made her grand Revolutionary call for Trump. Because "things would really explode".

Oh ya, Rest in Peace Officer Sicknick.
You served well protecting the US Capitol.
You gave your life as the Revolution stormed the building in their grand goal of "burning it all down".

I hope the pitiful Sarandon gets taxed beyond her elitist means.

I thank you & applaud you Senator Warren, & I hope you're just getting started.

Here. You can view Sarandon in all her giddy glory right here:

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/susan-sarandon-trump-win-could-bring-revolution-immediately-877424707847?cid=sm_fb_allin



Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
20. yeah, baseless.
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:25 AM
Feb 2021

If she had said anything about this specific incident you would link it. You didn't You brought her name into this without merit. You thought it would be cool to bring her up in an unrelated topic. You were wrong. Maybe you should focus on unity rather than division.

I don't care for Susan Sarandon, but I don't have to make up conspiratorial fantasies to dislike her.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
22. Susan's a victim now? I gave you a link.
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:31 AM
Feb 2021

"Trump will bring on the Revolution. Things will really explode!"

Well, Multimillionare Susan Sarandon?
Ya Happy?
She sure used her celebrity to advocate for Trump & the rapid approching Revolution she screeched from every media source she could get a spot on. "It really exploded didn't it.
She advocated for Trump.
She owns her words.

REST IN PEACE~ OFFICER SICKNICK




Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
24. Your link had nothing to do with your current claim
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 02:12 AM
Feb 2021

If you are going to make an accusation, you should be able to support it. You did not. Rather than trying to name drop, perhaps provide content and context. Pretending to hate all of the right people is sort of transparent when you don't back the claims.

When Susan Sarandon complains about taxation under Biden, wake me up. Until then you have nothing but weak sauce based on speculative distaste. That may work for Qanon, but it doesn't work here.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
25. Her claims of Trump bringing the Revolution & things will really explode is pretty dang
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 02:30 AM
Feb 2021

..close To the Qanon bullshit talk that stormed the Capitol.

Same call for burning it all down.
Stop making excuses for those who advocated for Trump, & like Sarandon, used his exact words to incite supporting his disasterous anti-American Presidency.

She said the same damned enraging tribal wording he did to his Proud Boys & Qanon base of insurrectionists.

I hope Sen Warren taxes the f out of people like her.
Useless elitist priviledged multimillionare.








Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
26. That's not the claim
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 02:37 AM
Feb 2021

Do you pay attention to what you post?

Post a link that Susan Sarandon is upset about not making the cutoff of the wealth tax or shut the fuck up about it.

If you cannot support your claim. the last thing you should do is extend it for several posts. Put up or shut up.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
28. Exactly.
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 03:02 AM
Feb 2021

Post 15 is this: "Wake me up when this is something other than fantasy. nt"

You have nothing but divisiveness. Perhaps you should evaluate why you find it necessary to attack people who are otherwise unmentioned.

When you get to the point of not fabricating controversy, look me up. Otherwise, at least try to be a better DU citizen and not deal in fantasy and division.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
29. All I said was that Sarandon, worth $60 milliom didn't make Warrens's $50 mill cut off
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 06:41 AM
Feb 2021

I have no idea why my discussing the OP about the effect of Sen Warren's Tax Plan for those over $50million, would become a battle for defending a multimillionare elitist, over entitled actress who once grabbed the spotlight to sell Trump's burn it all down approach.

My post was about the line being drawn on elitists like SS.
I could easily name a few others who stumped for Trump & are now millionares & billionares because of his smash & grab policies. But SS is just one example.

I personally hope Sen Warren sticks every wealthy elitist who used their celebrity to put him in the WH, with a blistering tax rate .

SS happens to be a perfect example.
I'd would never defend a fraud like her.

SO, you see when Sen Warren speaks about a higher & fair taxing of $50mill +, Yes. I am damned pleased that SS falls into that 'above $50 mill' bracket.

I don't really give a shit what you think about my posts.
I addressed the topic of the OP .
And cited a perfect example as SS.

Defend SS all day & night if you choose.

She showed us who she is & THANK YOU SEN WARREN for making the cutoff at $50 million.

SS can now pay her fair share .

There's some high horses around here!
I'l just IGNORE all the crass swear words you threw me.
I'm not about to "shut the fk up" because you ordered me too.
Stop harassing me.

SS deserves the tax rate Sen Warren hands her.









Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
31. I am sure your choice of Susan Sarandon as someone affected was totally a random choice.
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:23 PM
Feb 2021

I am not defending her, I am simply pointing out that you made a weird attack post that serves no purpose other than division.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
35. I am only sure that your post brought up someone that had no direct connection with the article and
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 05:29 PM
Feb 2021

that it was simply speculating about someone you hate. It had no relevance to the discussion and no basis in fact.

I called you on it. There is nothing really mysterious about this sub-thread.

 

Budi

(15,325 posts)
36. My post was about Sen Warren slapping a TAX on the multimillionare celebrity elitsts.
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:31 PM
Feb 2021

..who spouted endlessly, all giddy & excited about how electing Trump would make things really explode!! Bring on the revolution & advocated for a tyrant. Just to watch it all go down from her priviledged multimillionare perch far above the damage the rest of the country dealt with.

Sen Warren's Tax on the likes of the uber priviledged SS & their enthusiam for Trump WAS the point of my post.

So stop trying to deflect from what SS really is & make it about some personal issue with me.

Susan Sarandon & the likes of her $$$$ elitist kind damned well should be taxed far more than they are & Big Fat Kudos to Sen Warren for putting that tax plan out there.

SS shilled for Trump & we all live & die with the spoils of her moment of personal entertainment.

Sen Warren should go even bigger on that tax plan of hers as far as I'm concerned.


Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
38. I don't consider Budi's post out of line...Sarandon whom I despise would be subject to a wealth
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:43 PM
Feb 2021

tax. I don't believe a wealth tax will be deemed constitutional. Why would Sen. Warren think a conservative supreme court would overturn an 1895 ruling-years and years of precedent? She would be better off to work on the tax code. This is why although I love Sen. Warren, she was my second choice after Pres. Biden. I think some of her ideas have no chance of becoming law and surviving in the courts.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
41. Here is the deal for me. I despise Susan...and always will...just like I despise Nader...
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:49 PM
Feb 2021

She helped elect Trump...so I don't give a damn what she thinks. She is unrepentant even after thousands of deaths, caged children and an insurrection.

Gore1FL

(21,132 posts)
51. But, do you despise her so much that you bring her up in unrelated conversations?
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 06:12 PM
Feb 2021

Hate SS all you want. Make a thread about it. I don't care. There is no relationship to her and the topic of this thread, however.

WarGamer

(12,444 posts)
5. I fully support the findings of the UK Wealth Tax Commission
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 05:58 PM
Feb 2021

www.ukwealth.tax

The report strongly endorses a "One-Off" wealth tax over an annual tax. The reasons for this are many and are included in the text of the report but they include complexity, public opposition and the risk of sending wealthy individuals to flight.

The report proposes a 5% (or progressive 3-8%) tax on all assets over 500k GBP, to be paid by any and all with UK citizenship at the start date which would predate the announcement of the tax.

This system seems completely appropriate for the US. The challenge would be HOW to use the multi-Trillion dollar largesse so that it makes a permanent change to the nation.

The report is very thorough and well written... worth a read

SunStar

(66 posts)
8. Harsh truth
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 06:57 PM
Feb 2021

According to standing Supreme Court precedent, federal wealth taxes are direct taxes and are thus unconstitutional unless they are collected in proportion to the states' populations. No one is going to write a law that meets the apportionment rule as that would require different tax treatment by state for those covered by the tax.

Some, particularly Warren, will say that the precedent is wrong about wealth taxes being direct taxes, but it's wishful thinking to suggest that the Supreme Court, especially this Supreme Court, is going to reverse itself in the face of such long standing precedent.

Precedent is clear. If Warren is serious, she should be doing what Congress did when it wanted an Income Tax: Propose an Amendment. Until she does that, I have to assume she's just posturing.

Celerity

(43,359 posts)
23. A Wealth Tax Is Constitutional - American Bar Association
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 01:33 AM
Feb 2021
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/taxation/publications/abataxtimes_home/19aug/19aug-pp-johnson-a-wealth-tax-is-constitutional/

As most readers who follow the 2020 campaign proposals are aware, Elizabeth Warren has proposed an annual wealth tax of 2% for wealth greater than $50 million and 3% for wealth greater than $1 billion. Various pundits have said that the tax is “probably unconstitutional” and that the Supreme Court could “stop the wealth tax dead in its tracks.”
Warren’s wealth tax is constitutional under the standards laid down by the Founders, as this article will demonstrate. Apportionment of a wealth or land tax by population would now require the injustice of substantially higher tax rates in poorer states: when that happens, under the Founders’ standards, the tax is not a direct tax for which apportionment is required. Apportionment was not written to protect wealth from assault, as proponents of its unconstitutionality now claim, but rather to reach wealth by what was thought to be the best then available measure of wealth.

The Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 4, requires that a “direct tax” must be apportioned among the states by population. For the Founders, a necessary element to be a direct tax is that apportionment among the states by population must be reasonable and just. Thus import taxes (the impost), excise taxes, duties, carriage taxes and now real estate and wealth taxes have been expelled from the definition of direct tax, sometimes by the operation of ordinary language and sometimes by Supreme Court decision.

Real estate and wealth taxes were once considered direct taxes because they were the taxes that the states would use to satisfy a requisition and because real estate and wealth were presumed to be equal among the states. Today, however, apportionment of a wealth tax among the states by population is neither just nor reasonable. Wealth per capita in poor Mississippi is under half of the per capita wealth in relatively rich District of Columbia. Apportionment by population would mean that tax rates in Mississippi would have to be more than twice the rates in DC. The result would tax residents of poor states much more harshly than residents of wealthy states. That result has no justification in history or policy: it would simply arise by necessity from the fact that Mississippi has a smaller tax base over which to spread its quota. Thus, when it was recognized that wealth and real estate are not equally distributed per capita so that apportionment forced substantially higher tax rates in poorer states, the taxes on wealth and real estate could not be treated as direct taxes. Apportionment would not be just or reasonable.

The Founders believed in wealth taxes: they considered that they would need taxes on wealth for the common defense in the inevitable next war. Various leaders made this clear. The power to provide for the common defense, one J. Choate told the Massachusetts ratification convention, “can be no other than an unlimited power of taxation, if that defence requires it.” “Wars have now become rather wars of the purse than of the sword,” Oliver Ellsworth told Connecticut. “A government which can command but half its resources is like a man with but one arm to defend himself.” Hamilton put it quite clearly.

A constitution cannot set bounds to a nation’s wants; it ought not, therefore, to set bounds to its resources. Unexpected invasions, long and ruinous wars, may demand all the possible abilities of the country. Shall not your government have power to call these abilities into action? The contingencies of society are not reducible to calculations. They cannot be fixed or bounded, even in imagination.


No hobble that made wealth taxes impossible would have been tolerated at the time, and apportionment, which was only intended to provide a reasonable formula for calculating tax shares when workable, would have been a hobble. The idea that Congress would nonetheless have to raise federal taxes by an intolerable injustice when it badly needed the tax revenues misunderstands what the Constitution is about. The consequences of apportionment by population when the per capita tax base is uneven rebuts the use of apportionment.

snip

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
44. You don't address the 1895 ruling and precedent.
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 02:56 PM
Feb 2021

"In 1895, in a case called Pollock v. Farmers Loan and Trust Company, the Supreme Court declared the income tax was unconstitutional. "The conclusion was that the income tax was a direct tax — at least in so far as it reached income from property — and it therefore had to be apportioned to be constitutionally valid," Jensen says.

The Constitution, in two separate provisions, says that "direct taxes" have to be apportioned by state population. That means a state's tax burden is determined by the size of their population. It doesn't matter how much income or wealth or whatever's being taxed is in the state. If California has 10 percent of the national population, it has 10 percent of the tax burden. In order for the math to work, the rule means tax rates will have to be wildly different in each state."

Please note, it took an income tax amendment for one to be deemed constitutional. And in my opinion the Roberts court would uphold the 1895 ruling and find a wealth tax unconstitutional. And there is no chance of an amendment anytime soon. This is a waste of time...change the tax code.

Celerity

(43,359 posts)
45. Of course I did, you must not have read the ABA article, Pollock is dead and the 16th Amendment was
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 03:22 PM
Feb 2021

the final nail in its coffin. The vast bulk of post-Pollock jurisprudence also considers Pollock to have been erroneously decided as well. I find the article's legal reasoning sound and persuasive.

I fully support a wealth tax and do not consider it a 'waste of time' at all.


from the article

Pollock is an ignorant misreading of history and the meaning of the apportionment clause, as discussed in the prior sections to this article. The Founders’ purpose for the apportionment clause was not to protect wealth from the force of mere numbers but rather to apportion a requisition to reach the wealth of the states. Population was considered an appropriate index of wealth. Apportionment was not an individual taxpayer right vis a vis the government, but a means of allocating taxes in a way that could reach that wealth. The rules regarding direct taxation were never intended as an impediment on the taxing power of the United States.

Pollock is also a condemnation of close reading of text as a sufficient ground for constitutional adjudication, without an understanding of the history of that text. If you know nothing about the history or original function of the direct tax, then it is easy to misinterpret the language “apportionment by population” as if it were forcing the same amount of tax per person and protecting wealth from mere numbers. That turns the original constitutional meaning upside down.

In any case, Pollock was bad history when it was decided, and it quickly became a pariah and shrank in importance. Justice Harlan described Pollock at the time as the “decision [that] will become as hateful with the American people as the Dred Scott case.”61 Looking back, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. judged that Pollock was an inappropriate overreaction to the populist William Jennings Bryan, a vague terror that was translated into “doctrine that had no place in the Constitution.”62 Almost immediately the Supreme Court began retreating from what it later called its “mistaken theory” in Pollock,63 by expanding the definition of “excise tax” elastically to include taxes that were obvious assaults on wealth, including the estate tax,64 a corporate gross receipts tax,65 the corporate income tax,66 and a tax on Chicago Board of Trade commodity transactions.67 The elastic expansion of “excise” to avoid apportionment of the tax was solely a tool to confine Pollock to its facts because the original 1787 meaning of “excise” meant only a tax on whiskey68 and other sins.69 The Sixteenth Amendment, passed by two-thirds of both houses of Congress and ratified by three-quarters of the states, allowed a tax on income without apportionment, putting the last nail in Pollock’s coffin.

The Founders believed in the wealth tax. Apportionment was designed to reach wealth by taxing states according to a proxy for relative wealth, using the best measurement of wealth that was then available. To turn a requirement designed to make it easier to tax wealth into a rule exempting wealth from taxation is to turn the Founders’ meaning upside down. The progressive idea of a wealth tax, like the estate tax, is clearly constitutional. ■


Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
47. That amendment made income tax an exception. It didn't destroy Pollack. And with this court,
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 04:31 PM
Feb 2021

there is not point in wasting reconciliation ( we can only do so many) in order to pass a wealth tax that is going to be overturned by a very conservative court...bet on it. We can't do another amendment presently so I believe we need to overhaul taxes instead.

Massacure

(7,522 posts)
16. Warren's energy on this is misplaced, in my opinion
Tue Feb 2, 2021, 09:38 PM
Feb 2021

Much simpler to increase the tax rate on the top bracket and to eliminate the preferential rate for capital gains.

Gothmog

(145,231 posts)
33. Nate Silver/538-Warren's Wealth Tax Isn't The Slam Dunk Progressives Want It To Be
Wed Feb 3, 2021, 02:57 PM
Feb 2021

I am still not convinced that a wealth tax is constitutional




Additionally, a wealth tax would almost certainly face a legal challenge from well-funded conservative opponents. And it’s genuinely unclear whether it would ultimately be ruled constitutional. The issue isn’t that Congress can’t enact a wealth tax. It’s that if a wealth tax counts as a “direct” tax, Congress would have to ensure that the amount of money coming from each state was roughly the same on a per-capita basis, as there is a provision of the Constitution that bans direct taxes unless the amount collected is drawn equally from the states based on their populations. Given that wealth is not evenly distributed across the states, that equal distribution would be functionally impossible to ensure.

The fate of a wealth tax, then, would hinge on whether it counts as a direct tax. That’s a tough question to answer, because the Constitution itself doesn’t really define what a direct tax is, beyond the fact that the category includes a poll tax, which is a fixed amount charged for every person. Taxes like tariffs and certain others that can’t be fairly distributed on a per-person basis are generally not considered direct taxes. But how all of this would apply to a wealth tax isn’t entirely clear. The Supreme Court weighed in on this question more than 100 years ago — and not in the wealth tax’s favor. In 1895, the court struck down a federal income tax law because it taxed income generated from property, including land and other kinds of personal property, like stocks and bonds. The decision was controversial, and Congress and the states effectively reversed part of it 20 years later with the passage of the 16th Amendment which allowed Congress to tax income without worrying about how evenly it was distributed. But Congress’s authority to tax wealth wasn’t addressed by the amendment, and the Supreme Court hasn’t really returned to the issue in the past century.

Warren’s defenders argue, however, that the court simply got it wrong back in 1895, and that a modern wealth tax wouldn’t count as a direct tax. But the court’s right-leaning justices might approach the tax with a less favorable eye. And the existence of the old precedent could give the court’s conservative justices a way to dispatch a wealth tax relatively easily, which gives experts like Daniel Hemel pause. “A wealth tax could raise trillions of dollars — or, if it’s struck down by the Supreme Court, it could raise nothing,” said Hemel, a law professor at the University of Chicago. “That’s a really big risk if you care about the redistribution of income and you’re trying to figure out how to get it

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
46. The Democratic Party should include only one exception...
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 03:59 PM
Feb 2021

A one time exception for lotto winners from a lotto sponsored by a state in the United States, so that those lotto winnings never exclusively place an additional tax on the winner. Some people think it is unfair if they are taxed even more if they ever won, which in reality will never happen, but the thought of it causes them to reject it outright. All I am saying is that the Dems should eliminate how Republicans will manipulate people to vote for being against themselves.

twin_ghost

(435 posts)
49. I don't think the federal government can tax wealth.
Thu Feb 4, 2021, 04:50 PM
Feb 2021

They can tax income and place tariffs on imports, but this would be like a property tax. They would need a constitutional amendment.

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