Primarying Joe Manchin has to be the dumbest idea in the world.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

He's probably the only person in America with a (D) after his name who can win a senatorial race in West Virginia.

[TwilightZone]

1. Agreed. What short memories we have.

Dems just ran a progressive for Senate in WV in 2020. She lost 70-27.

[BGBD]

106. She tried to primary Manchin in 2018

And lost to him almost as badly.

[Hotler]

2. Please list all the Democratic qualities he brings to the table.

I have lost my copy. Thank you.

[33taw]

6. His D gave us the Senate majority.

[themaguffin]

11. Please people who can beat him in a primary AND win in a general election.

[Cha]

102. Touche'!

[TwilightZone]

15. He votes with Dems at least 50% more than every, single, possible alternative.

With Manchin, we get at least half of his votes.

With the alternative - a Republican - we get zero.

This isn't hard, people. It's simple math.

[BobTheSubgenius]

66. That is exactly it!

Politics is the art of the possible.

[EarlG]

28. Right now?

Without Manchin, Democrats would not have control of the U.S. Senate. Mitch McConnell would still be the Senate Majority Leader, and would right now be blocking every single thing that Biden tried to do, including appointing judges and SCOTUS justices if that comes up.

Here are Manchin's votes over the years to protect the ACA:
https://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/412391

He also voted to convict Trump in the first impeachment trial
https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-manchin-will-vote-to-convict-trump-impeachment-trial-2020-2

Pulling a few random Dem senators out of the hat, Manchin voted in 70% agreement with Tammy Duckworth:
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/M001183-joe-manchin-iii/compare-votes/D000622-tammy-duckworth/115

70% of the time with Chuck Schumer:
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/M001183-joe-manchin-iii/compare-votes/S000148-charles-e-schumer/115

74% of the time with Ben Cardin:
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/M001183-joe-manchin-iii/compare-votes/C000141-benjamin-l-cardin/115

79% of the time with Michael Bennet:
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/M001183-joe-manchin-iii/compare-votes/B001267-michael-bennet/115

To be clear, I'm not a fan of Manchin's rhetorical shenanigans, although I understand them to be necessary in order for him to protect his seat. I also don't like how he voted on a number of Trump's appointees, even if those appointees were going to pass with or without his vote.

But until and unless he actually casts a deciding vote to destroy a major piece of Dem legislation -- for example, if he were to be the deciding vote that killed the entire COVID relief package -- he is in no way as worthless as a Republican would be in that seat.

A 50-50 Republican-controlled Senate would be a disaster right now.

[TwilightZone]

34. +1

We need to look at people like Manchin in context. Every viable alternative in WV is a Republican. We can have Manchin's "bipartisan" stance, which is why he keeps getting reelected, or we can have an R in that seat who votes against us every time.

[Bradshaw3]

37. Unassailable facts

Slams the door shut on the topic. Manchin may give people heartburn but he is 10 times better than a repub and probably a thousand times better than a repub WV would send in his place.

[Hekate]

57. Thank you, EarlG

[PunkinPi]

60. +1 nt

[c-rational]

64. +1 nt

[BobTheSubgenius]

67. That is one comprehensive post!

I'm amazed you can even find the time to do the research! Thanks for that.

[Demsrule86]

76. +10000

[Dem2]

29. Covid relief

Game. Set. Match.

[Drahthaardogs]

40. He still votes with the Dems 75% of the time

It’s the best we can hope for in WV.

75% > 0%

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good

[StarfishSaver]

48. The "D" after his name in the Senate roster is the most important thing he brings right now

The rest Majority Leader Schumer and the Democratic committee chairs can work around.

[BannonsLiver]

53. Find me a Republican that votes with Dems 75 percent of the time.

I’ll be waiting. A long time.

[Demsrule86]

73. How about this...he saved the ACA...without his vote , it would be gone. How about he

didn't vote for the Rightie tax reform...taking away Mitch's efforts to call it bipartisan...He also voted against the GOP plan to end fair pay rule and make work less safe...and without him, we don't have a majority. When it was important he voted with us...how many times has an GOP type voted with us?

[pnwmom]

97. He votes with progressives about 60% of the time, according to Progressive Punch.

More than twice as often as the most "moderate" Republican.

And if he were a Republican, Mitch McConnell would be majority leader.

[JonLP24]

115. Progressive Punch doesn't seem very accurate

I use this.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/report-cards/2019/senate/ideology

Manchin is there with Collins & Murkowski.

[pnwmom]

119. Manchin represents a state that gave Trump a 40 point margin in 2016 --

the biggest in the country.

We're not going to get a progressive voted in there.

[Turin_C3PO]

3. Agree.

Nonetheless, he pisses me off quite often.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. Republicans DO NOT want Bipartisanship, Joe....

They want to RULE, not govern. When is Joe Manchin going to get that through his thick head?

[TwilightZone]

23. But his constituents do.

That's why they keep reelecting him.

Should he do what his constituents want? He's not answering to Republicans in Congress. He's answering to them. The only reason he continues to win is that he at shows independence and bipartisanship.

Sucks for us sometimes, often even, but every viable alternative means an R who never votes with us.

[Turin_C3PO]

39. He could vote

for the 1.9 trillion relief bill and not lose any votes. I agree he has to be more conservative on a lot of issues in order to keep his seat but this bill has no political cost, imo.

[sop]

44. Manchin and Biden are redefining "bipartisanship."

To them it means following the will of the vast majority of voters of both parties, not simply compromising with a pack of corrupt Republicans in Congress, who only really care about their wealthy corporate donors, just to get legislation passed. Manchin understands the majority of his Republican constituents will benefit greatly from Biden's Covid relief package, no matter how much they buy into their party's rightwing propaganda.

I believe Biden is bypassing the traditional concept of legislative bipartisanship, appealing directly to a large chunk of working class Trump voters by actually improving their lives economically. He's hoping these disaffected voters will realize Democratic policies are better for them in the long run, despite all the divisive bullshit put out by the GOP.

[mopinko]

5. when is he up again?

no, unfuck the voting system, then primary his ass.

most red states arent red. they're suppressed.

[33taw]

7. He is a senator, gerrymandering is not an issue in the Senate.

[lagomorph777]

31. "suppressed" doesn't only mean "gerrymandered."

The QOP has spent decades cooking up hundreds of crafty suppression schemes.

[TwilightZone]

36. Trump won WV by 40 points.

It's a red state. Has been for 20 years. The claim that it's just suppressed is laughable.

[BGBD]

108. I challenge anyone to come

Find voter suppression in WV. It one of the easiest states in the country to vote in.

[Celerity]

12. 2024, if he chooses to run again, and if he has not switched parties by then (which I can see at

least being a possibility, if not a big one, IF we lose the Senate in 2022).

[Demsrule86]

74. I have seen snarky posts on this forum. I would remind everyone that Manchin is a Democrat and

this is Democratic Underground. There is no indication that Manchin would switch parties. We have opportunities in the Senate in 22 if we are willing to elect moderate Democrats like Manchin who without we will not.. have majority ever. Perhaps rather than primarying sitting Democrats with candidates that if they were successful would lose the election by 40 points are so, some could work on unseating Republicans. You know help Democrats actually win elections and all.

[Celerity]

100. I have no idea why you are having a go at me with your usual moderates only need apply

stances. I have said over and over that Manchin is the only Dem who can win that WV Senate seat, primary him, beat him (I do not see that happening) and we lose the seat.

I never advocated a prog should primary any sitting Dem Senator in 2022, You have the wrong poster.

I have always understood that we need to be pragmatic in purple, pink, and reddish states and districts.

I do think that some on here take it too far the other way, and want to see centrists/moderates take out some of the higher profile progressives, progs who are in deep blue districts. Go back and look at the AOC 2020 primary threads. The anti-AOC comments (in terms of her being beaten by a string of failed candidates) did not age well at all.

The big tent works both ways. We are never going to be a party that is made up of only centrists across the board.

As for Manchin, I never said it was a lock he would jump parties at all, only that IF we lose the Senate in 2022 it is not an impossibility that he would considerate it IF certain other things occurred as well. Many miles to go, I doubt he switches, and we are all assuming that he runs for re-election, which may not happen either, although I am fairly sure he will run again.


As for 2022 in the Senate

OH - Portman retiring is a big deal, as now we at least have a shot at flipping it, especially if Ryan wins the primary.

NC (open seat) should be Jeff Jackson for us, I think he would have won in 2020, as well, instead of the disastrous Cunningham (sext scandal blew that seat).

PA is an open seat as well, and I think either John Fetterman, the sitting Lieutenant Governor, or the sitting AG, Josh Shapiro (if he runs) can win it. Tom Wolf, the current Governor, is not running for it.

The other Rethug seat that is pretty flippable is Johnson in WI. Mandela Barnes, the sitting Lieutenant Governor, would be a great candidate, and I hope he runs. If he doesn't, then it is wide open on our end from all that I see. Tom Nelson, formr majority leader in the Assembly, is running, and the sitting AG Josh Kaul might also run.

FL is tougher to flip (hopefully Ivanka Rump causes chaos for Rubio) but we have a slew of potential good candidates,

Charlie Crist, U.S. representative
Val Demings, U.S. representative (my choice)
Stephanie Murphy, U.S. representative
Ted Deutch, U.S. representative
Nikki Fried, Florida Commissioner of Agriculture
Gwen Graham, former U.S. representative and candidate for governor of Florida in 2018
Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, former U.S. representative (lost in 2020, along with Shalala)


I terms of our at-risk seats, we have 3 and a half

The half is Kelly in AZ, as we dodged a bullet with Ducey refusing to run, plus the AZ Rethugs are imploding

that leaves 3 at risk

GA (Warnock) with Doug Collis perhaps his most likely opponent, and a horrid vote suppression scheme potentially rolling out to try and fuck us.

NV (Cortez Masto) Sandoval is by far the most dangerous potential opponent

NH (Hassan) Gov Crhis Sununu would be the toughest, and NH just went full Rethug trifecta at state level, as we lost both the state House and the state Senate in 2020, Ex US Kelly Ayotte might run as well.

The thing that worries me the most is our horrid record in the last two initial midterms (1994 and 2010) for a new Dem POTUS. We are in real danger in the House (35 to 45 or so at risk seats, although almost none of those are progressives in swing districts (and I doubt you will see any at risk Dem Reps primaried by actual legit, 'capable of wining the primary' candidates, none (in vulnerable districts) were in 2020 (at least nothing serious).

The only challenges were in the perfectly acceptable (for a primary challenge, and that is where me and you deffo disagree) deep blue seats. Multiple of them won, Jamal Bowman, Mondaire Jones (beat multiple centrists/moderates for Nita Loweys open, old seat), Cori Bush (mixed emotions on her, not that she beat too long serving (he and his father had that seat since the 1960's, and his district said it was time for new blood) Lacy Clay, but that she (Bush) has lose cannon potential), and also Marie Newman, who beat the RW Lipinski (RW on many things, plus his campaign falsely smeared Newman as anti Catholic and as a HOLOCAUST DENIER, ffs)-

We have a good deal more House seats we can lose in 2022 than ones we can flip back (a lot of those losses in 2020 for us were simply Red seats reverting to mean after the one-off Blue Wave of 2018).It is not a great position atm at all.

Finally, just so you are crystal clear as to my stance, there is only one Dem incumbent in congress I want to see primaried and beaten, One, that is it, now that Lipinski lost, Henry Cuellar, in safe blue seat, has never once be held by a Rethug, but he is the worst Dem (no one else is close) in Congress. Anti LGBTQ, forced birther, A- rated NRA favourite, pro drill baby drill, super pro private prisons, campaigns and fundraisers for racist climate change denier Rethug Jon Carter (Cuellar helped cost MJ Hegar that seat in 2018) against Democrats, and is anti immigrant far too often. Now, to show you that I understand how things work, we need a centrist, NOT a prog (like the last two challengers) to take hi on. All I ask is a person who actually supports our Democratic platform. Cuellar, other than voting for Pelosi, is barely a Dem.(in the Congress before the last one, Cellar voted with Trump and the Rethugs almost 70% of the time). All we need is a run of the mill moderate there who believes in in our platform and won't vote to take away my rights as both a member of the LGBTQ community, and as woman, which Cuellar does do.

[TwilightZone]

16. And lose a Senator.

Sure, great idea.

We ran a progressive in 2020 in WV, by the way. She lost 70-27. Look for similar numbers if we primary Manchin.

[mopinko]

43. well, maybe next time run someone more middle of the road.

but rly. this ass needs to go.

[Demsrule86]

78. Joe is middle of the road and votes with us most times and in all important votes...no other

Democrat will win period.

[BannonsLiver]

49. LOL

[LeftInTX]

52. I live in a red state....

It is red, trust me....

[Demsrule86]

75. And then lose that seat and the majority...oh yeah such a great solution...do you really believe

once Manchin goes WVA will send a Democrat to the Senate...once Manchin is gone so is the seat And a primary could weaken him.

[GulfCoast66]

103. May I ask where you live?

Because WV is red.

[mopinko]

104. illinois. in '18 i got my sister elected to a county board in a red county.

any more questions?

[GulfCoast66]

109. Sure. Do you really think most people in WV, KY and Al are just waiting to vote Democratic?

Yeah, with organizing like Stacey Abrams we have more of a chance. And states like GA and NC with large urban areas of well educated people we can win. Especially as those states are also becoming more diverse. Georgia should be a model for how we fight in them.

But I have family in KY. It is still overwhelmingly white and equally bad for us, evangelical. Can a democrat win? Sure, their Governor is a democrat. But it took a very bad republican to let that happen.

I’m certainly not saying we should not try to win everywhere. Otherwise we will always feel like we are treading water. But there are several states that won’t vote Democratic no matter who we put up to run. I would love to be proven wrong.

Have a nice evening.

[mopinko]

110. it's a new world.

the tide that changed in '18 is gonna keep rollin.

[GulfCoast66]

111. I hope you are right. But we got hurt in House elections.

Losing many districts we won in 18.

I’m not worrying about it right now. Just enjoying the changes Joe is making.

[JI7]

8. That group that wants to Primary him wants REpublicans to win

[Budi]

24. Yes they sure do! And Sinema too.

We will lose seats & majority because of it .
And that's what they want.
A nation of extremisim.

[JonLP24]

112. Arizona isn't as red as West Virginia

I'm not a fan of Sinema. She voted to confirm Barr who is one of the worst AG ever.

[Demsrule86]

77. That is exactly right.

[ebbie15644]

9. Agreed

they should be flipping other Senate seats instead to give us more votes

[Autumn]

13. If West Virginia really likes him the primary effort will fail. If it succeeds I guess he won't be

the only person in America with a (D) after his name who can win a senatorial race in West Virginia.

[bottomofthehill]

19. The only person with a D who can win a General Election

[Autumn]

35. How do you know? Crystal balls are fake. No one knows until it's tried.

[mountain grammy]

63. Agree!

[Fiendish Thingy]

14. And he is the only person in US who can single-handedly sabotage Biden's agenda and doom

Democrats to losing control of the house in 2022.

At this point, Manchin’s obstruction means Dems have NO power in congress, not even through reconciliation, since he opposes the COVID relief bill without bipartisan support...not even appointing judges since he won’t break the filibuster to force a vote on a new organizing resolution, so Lindsey is still in charge of the judiciary committee.

But nooooo, primarying Manchin is a “dumb” idea, because Dems would lose all that hard won power that they can’t use because of him.

Primarying Manchin is too good for him- if Dems add to their majority in 2022 (a good possibility), and Dems lose their majority in the house because Manchin’s obstruction caused them to fail to deliver on Biden’s promises and agenda, then Schumer should strip Manchin of all committee assignments, send him to the Steve King Club. Kicking him out of the Dem caucus might even be worth it.

At this point, Manchin’s career ends in 2024, he just doesn’t know it yet.

Biden is meeting with Dem senators today- I hope he makes Manchin feel the heat.

[Wawannabe]

65. Manchin's on board now

Tweet in the twittersphere

Musta been a good call!

[Fiendish Thingy]

95. Link? Nt

[Demsrule86]

80. Manchin is onboard with Biden's plan as I told you he would be...and we always need more

Democrats to vote with us... accept the face we have 7 moderate to conservative Democrats who will have to vote to keep their seats or McConnell is back in charge. This is how it is.

[Fiendish Thingy]

94. Please post a link where Manchin reversed his position on requiring bipartisan support

For Biden’s COVID relief bill. All I have seen is him shrugging off the $1.9T amount, but not backtracking on his insistence that, in order to get his vote, the relief package must have bipartisan support.

[pnwmom]

98. Try to keep up. The reconciliation bill is currently working its way through Congress

and he's not opposing it.

https://news.yahoo.com/manchin-support-democrats-reconciliation-bill-183600667.html

[Fiendish Thingy]

105. That article is from 30 min. Ago, after my original post

And it looks like Manchin is still using weasel words about only supporting “immediate relief”, which seems to exclude $15 min wage and possibly other elements of the package outside of relief checks, vaccine funding, and aid to states.

Manchin is a weasel.

[pnwmom]

113. Manchin's support of the reconciliation bill was first written about YESTERDAY.

For example, here.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/manchinsupports-advancing-covid-19-aid-resolution


Manchin is a Democratic Senator from a state where, in 2016, Trump won by 40 points -- the largest margin in the US. We're lucky to have Manchin there. We would be much worse off with any Republican.

[Fiendish Thingy]

120. And if Taylor picks up Portman's seat in 2022, Manchin will immediately become irrelevant. Nt

[pnwmom]

121. No, he won't. Not at all. It's still better to have him in the Senate than the Republican

from West Virginia who would replace him.

[Mister Ed]

17. Probably much wiser to pursue Dem gains in other states for 2022. n/t

[TwilightZone]

21. Yes.

Keep the seats we have; find more. Not a difficult concept.

[Demsrule86]

81. Yes...that makes so much sense unless your real motive in primarying Democrats is to help

Republicans.

[Dem4Life1102]

18. Agreed!

[TwilightZone]

20. I can't tell if the ignorance is intentional or if some simply have no clue.

A progressive just lost a WV Senate seat 70-27 and people *still* insist that a more liberal candidate should be an easy win.

I don't know if people just don't have a clue or if they're being intentionally obtuse. That happens a lot around here.

[R B Garr]

32. My thoughts exactly. Election losses do provide clues,

so if the brand building is contributing to these losses, time to get a clue.

[mopinko]

45. so next time try someone more middle of the road.

[Crunchy Frog]

70. I'm not interested in putting a "progressive" in that seat. I just wish we had someone

more like Claire McCaskill and less like Joe Lieberman. I know we can only get a conservative Dem in there, but I'd prefer one who is at least reliably loyal to the Democratic Party.

I also don't see how Manchin can lose by ensuring that his constituents get the assistance that they desperately need and overwhelmingly want during a time of national crisis. I think he's more about playing cutesy little power games than he is about either serving his constituents, or getting himself reelected. I hope I'm wrong about this.

It's why we need to build up a bit of a margin in the Senate.

[BComplex]

22. Robert Byrd was a democratic senator from West Virginia forever (50 years, I think?).

There definitely is room for a democratic senator in West Virginia.

[JI7]

25. Byrd started serving when West Virginia mostly voted Democratic. THings are different now

They are uncomfortable with social progress so they tend to vote Republican . But like Byrd, Manchin has served in office for a long time there so he has a relationship with many that newer democrats are not going to have.

[TwilightZone]

26. The WV of today is not the WV of Byrd's time.

Particularly his first few decades.

WV was blue for a very long time. Prior to 2000, only three Republicans won the presidency in WV in 64 years.

It is no longer. Trump won it by 40 points and they haven't voted for a D since Bill Clinton.

[JI7]

27. Also almost half of the DEMOCRATS voted for a prisoner over Obama in the Democratic Primary in 2012

[TwilightZone]

33. I forgot about that.

WV Democrats aren't typical Democrats, whatever "typical" is. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for some to grasp.

But then, that applies everywhere. Every state, every district, every race is different. Trying to apply NYC or SF or Northeast US rules to WV is just laughable, yet people make the attempt all the time.

The bottom line is that we have a Democratic Senator in a state Trump won by 40%. That should tell people just about all they need to know. If that's not enough, a progressive ran for Senate in WV in 2020 and lost 70-27.

[SoCalNative]

41. WV democrats

are the "southern Democrats" of old. It may say "democrat" but their "values" align more with republicans.

[mcar]

30. Yep

[Happy Hoosier]

38. 100%

Can't say I'm a fan of "Barely a Democrat" Joe, but it beats losing to an R in WV

[redstatebluegirl]

42. Agreed!

People really do not understand that not all states are the same. Hell all Democrats are not the same.

[Nasruddin]

46. Proportional representation

I agree with this (for the reasons cited by others).

I think what this sentiment argues for is proportional representation in the Senate. The Senate is an awful institution and probably the best thing to do is follow John Dingell's advice & just abolish it. Another alternative: look at a proportional representation hybrid system like Germany's (eg https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-does-proportional-representation-work-in-germany/]).

If we're going to have a system where a member in KY or SF CA has so much power over the whole country, the whole country should have some say. It's undemocratic otherwise. A proportional representation system is one way to accomplish this.

[BannonsLiver]

54. While we're waving magic wands I'd like a house on Maui.

[Crunchy Frog]

71. The country will break apart before that happens,

and yes, I do think that the country will eventually break apart. Minority rule is unsustainable in the long term.

[Stuckinthebush]

47. Totally agree

Manchin is back peddling a little anyway it seems. Chuck can work with him and get his vote while Manchin placates his crazy WVA voters. Better Joe than an R.

[BannonsLiver]

50. Most saying he should be primaried have never spent any meaningful amount of time in red states

[MadMike47]

51. Make Washington D.C. a state. Then Manchin looses his clout.

[JaneQPublic]

55. Progressive Paula Jean Swearengin primaried him in 2018.

She didn't come close.

On Twitter, etc., certain young Progressives keep saying we need to primary Manchin with a Bernie type, arguing that WV USED TO BE the heart of the labor movement and crawling with lefties and socialists, so there's hope!

Then I ask them if they've ever been to WV, and, of course, they haven't. Beautiful state, but you're much more likely to find Proud Boys and militias there than Bernie supporters.

[Demsrule86]

83. The Bernie supporters said they planned to vote for Trump in the election. They were

just fucking with our primary...I used to live WVA and DC people are starting to move out there but it will be years before we make inroads there. Manchin is just fine.

[cry baby]

56. Completely agree! nt

[Cobalt Violet]

58. Bipartisanship is the 2nd dumbest idea in the world.

Only maintaining the filibuster is dumber.

[Demsrule86]

85. Joe Biden say bipartisanship is for the American people not necessarily Congress.

He will try but if the Senate GOP don't come along, he will hammer them and/or do it a different way.

[peggysue2]

59. Pretty much. And yet . . .

Every single year, the same howl rises into the ether--purge the blue dogs from Red states/districts.

With the present configuration of the Senate, it's especially dumb. Unless, of course, we want McConnell to take power again.

Deja vu all over again.

[bucolic_frolic]

61. We Big Tent Party or Toe Line Party?

Senator Manchin has an independent streak. We may not agree with him most of the time. If you have a better alternative, go for it. Let's not deal with illusions.

[dchill]

62. Primarying Joe Manchin is lunacy.

[VA_Jill]

68. Yeah

I'm really no fan of his, but I see his value. I have to live right next door to West Virginia, and he gets a lot of crossover votes because he keeps his fences mended at home.

[TheFarseer]

69. A primary challenge to

Dems In safe states or districts makes more sense. As for WV specifically, why don’t they try to pick off a house district? That would be more productive.

[Demsrule86]

87. It is still a waste of money...no primaring anyone this year.

Win Republican seats.

[crickets]

90. Thank you.

I'm so sick of this talk of Dems primarying other Dems when going after reachable Repub seats is a much more constructive plan. I understand that there are those who want to change the makeup of the Dems we have, but at least get a bigger Dem margin overall in Congress before trying it.

Primary the Republicans for goodness sake.

[Demsrule86]

92. We need to hold the House and the Senate...and we can do this...but not with idiotic primarying of

Democrats.

[TheFarseer]

125. We simply don't agree on this

I’m less concerned what letter a person has in parentheses next to their name and more concerned with what policies they are fighting for. I fully understand why we support Joe Manchin in WV but if he was the rep from San Francisco or Manhattan, why shouldn’t we elect someone that is never going to vote with Trump and unequivocally fight climate change, lefty judges and income inequality etc etc?

[Gothmog]

72. This is a very stupid idea

[maxsolomon]

79. He's not even up for re-election until 2024.

It's pretty fucking dumb.

Focus on taking MORE Senate seats from REPUKES in 2022.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

82. I'm in Kentucky. I'd be happy to have Manchin as a replacement for BOTH of my Senators.

[IronLionZion]

84. Some Dems want to lose our majority to teach moderates a lesson

[Demsrule86]

86. I honestly think that some want us to be in the minority if being in the majority means adding

moderate or conservative Democrats.

[IronLionZion]

88. Our efforts are better spent going after blue/purple state Republicans. nt

[Demsrule86]

93. You are correct as always!

[JI7]

96. No, they want Democrats to lose so they can make money

off podcasts , subscriptions and other crap selling shit to Democrats angry at republicans in office.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

89. True that

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

91. It's the Susan Sarandon style of going down in the flames of self-righteousness.

Or self-lefteousness, as the case may be.

We need every dog we can get, regardless of hue. Even blue.

[Budi]

118. Thank You for the SS ref.

+

[LanternWaste]

101. Third dumbest-- just behind flat-earth and 6000 year old earth.

Tied for third place with chemtrails.

But I've learned how much of a waste it is to argue with these demographics. They'll pull any logical fallacy out of their pockets to force the round peg fit into a square hole and the result a triangle.

[NurseJackie]

107. The ones who promote such stupidity are all about the purity. It's a ego and pride thing...

... and a clear desire to hurt the Democratic party and "teach us a lesson".

Personally, I love Joe Manchin... we're damned lucky to have him!

Without him, we'd be TWO SEATS BEHIND in the senate. Do the math. It's true.

[betsuni]

114. It's kind of funny, after seeing progressive Democrats called centrists/moderates

for so long because they weren't the right kind of "progressive," to have an actual centrist to talk about.

[jalan48]

116. It might be good for Joe to find out his constituents aren't as conservative as he thinks. If

they are he has no worries.

[pnwmom]

123. WV voters supported Trump by the largest margin in the US -- 40 points in 2016.

We were very lucky we had a centrist Democrat who was able to win the state.

[jalan48]

124. No worries for Joe then.

[Calista241]

117. Doesn't matter. He's said he's not running for another term

So prepare to lose this seat in 2024.

[LiberalFighter]

122. Focus on other states.

[VarryOn]

126. He'll take votes to the brink nearly every time, and there will...

2 or 3 votes where he'll disappoint us in a big way. The question is which votes. We need him desperately, and he knows it and will use it.

[Mike Niendorff]

127. Just like GA?

Things change.

Especially when progressives actually start fighting back.


MDN