Slate "Trump Didn't Believe His Election Lies. His trial can prove it."

[NRaleighLiberal]

(interesting read)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/trump-didnt-believe-election-lies-impeachment-trial.html

Did Donald Trump lie about who won the 2020 election? The answer seems obvious, but it isn’t. If Trump was just deluded—if he told his followers to march on the Capitol on Jan. 6 because he really thought the election had been stolen—some senators might cut him a break in his impeachment trial. But if Trump knew his allegations were bunk, and he sent his mob to the Capitol anyway, that’s a more coldblooded crime.

Firsthand accounts from Trump’s former aides, lawyers, and political allies, detailed in several recent articles, suggest that he knew his allegations were false, flimsy, or baseless. He was repeatedly advised that his claims didn’t check out. He also privately admitted that some of these claims were dubious or absurd. Several episodes are worth exploring at his trial. Here are some of them.

October. Trump “was given several presentations by his campaign advisers about the likely surge in mail-in ballots,” according to the Washington Post. He “was told they would go overwhelmingly against him.” Axios explains how Trump set out to “exploit” the delay in counting these ballots. “As Trump prepared for Election Day, he was focused on the so-called red mirage … that early vote counts would look better for Republicans than the final tallies,” says the Axios report. “His preparations were deliberate, strategic and deeply cynical.” In an early October phone call with Reince Priebus, his former chief of staff, Trump “acted out his script, including … prematurely declaring victory on election night if it looked like he was ahead.” And that’s what Trump eventually did.

snip

Trump is a well-known fantasist. He says things that are crazy or plainly false, and he often believes them. At times, he probably thinks he won the election. But when you’re repeatedly warned that what you’ve said is false or baseless, and you acknowledge that these warnings are well founded or probably correct, that’s enough to establish that you knew you should stop. Trump lied, and his lies caused a bloody insurrection. The Senate should judge him accordingly.

[TwilightZone]

1. Of course he knew.

It was all an act. He'd been openly planning it for months.

[mr_lebowski]

2. A show he got paid $75M for performing, I would add (nt)

[TwilightZone]

8. F'ing depressing.

[gratuitous]

3. What Trump believed is inconsequential

When you're standing before an armed angry mob and tell them to march on the Capitol, and that you'll be marching with them, it doesn't matter if your fingers are crossed. When the armed, angry mob sets out for the Capitol, whether you're marching with them (and some in the mob thought he was), you set them in motion. When the angry mob reaches the Capitol bellowing that they're there on Donald Trump's orders, there's no "Hey, just kidding" exception. The crowd believed what Trump said, and what he said was "Storm the Capitol." That makes him culpable, whether he marched or not, whether he was telling the truth or not, whether he scuppered away and watched the events he set in motion back home on teevee.

[TimeToGo]

4. Oh it def matters

But I think it is complicated because I am not sure he knows what he believe from one minute to the next.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

10. You are correct

The sad things is, the republicans simply do not care. Under no circumstances do I believe they will vote to impeach. We are witnessing utter and complete lawlessness.

[NJCher]

5. trump as fantasist

Good article. I liked the timeline format.

But what's especially damning is how he said, "Can you believe I lost to that @#$#ing guy?"

[sueh]

6. I hope these people are called as witnesses to testify at the trial.

[MyMission]

7. Sadly, tRump bears no responsibility for anything, and

that makes me so damn mad! Thanks for sharing this interesting article.

He has many who protect and enable him. He was encouraged, persuaded, convinced by others telling him what he wanted to hear; and what actions he could and should take.

He's a con man. We know that. He'll say and do whatever it takes. He lies and cheats and gets away with it. Hopefully he won't get away with it this time; we'll see what evidence is presented and how it is received. He got advice from countless people, weighed his options, and engineered this coup attempt. Ultimately he was behind it, but he had many encouraging and enabling him. Powell, Wood, Flynn all encouraging him to take actions that he rejected (declaring marshall law, seizing voting machines). Why did Barr leave? Fired or resigned, what was being considered and coordinated was something he would not sign on to, a line he would not cross.

45 hedged his bets, replaced personnel in pentagon and called up a mob to DC, knowing that a good number would join the insurrection that was planned behind the scenes. His right wing army (extremist militia groups combined with crazy Q followers) which he's been cultivating for 4 years, was prepared to engage in violent insurrection. Then he could claim the people kept him in power.

Some have suggested that if enough rethugs do not attend (hide) when the final vote takes place, he could be removed. 2/3 of those present must vote to remove. That's my hope, that enough will stay away for the vote because they don't want to be on the record for either voting to acquit or remove. If 10 rethugs stay away and 10 join Dems in voting to remove, that's 2/3. Somehow I think that's our best hope.

[LiberalFighter]

9. If he believed he lost - damn right he should be convicted.

If he was delusional - all the more reason to be convicted and never allowed to hold an elected position.

[Nasruddin]

11. Reframe

I suppose it must be tiresome to hear this over & over, but Trump & other people like him don't think like normal people.
True is what helps me or hurts my enemies, & false is what hurts me or helps my enemies. That's about as close as we can get.

Perhaps we all have a version of this, & it shows up as motivated reasoning or cherry-picking. But most of us know it's BS. He doesn't act like he does, & researchers point out that extreme narcs don't exhibit much in the way of shame or distress about lying. Anyway, it's mind reading and best left to the experts.

We have to be clear about this & not try to get into his psyche in public about what he believes or not & whether he lied or was confused or whatever. There's too much opportunity to get smashed on the contradictions of this personality type. Leave that to some skilled prosecuting attorney down the road.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Some politicians claimed counting should stop at midnight Nov 3 and leader declared winner. nt

[mnmoderatedem]

13. here's something encouraging

[Maxheader]

14. Expanding the situation..Great!

I would never have considered looking at the case from that perspective....