Sanders defuses late-night fight over $15 minimum wage

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

Sanders, who has led the push to increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour, quickly stood up to speak on the Senate floor, and in a twist, it wasn't to oppose Ernst's amendment, but to support it.

"It was never my intention to increase the minimum wage to $15 immediately and during the pandemic," Sanders said. "My legislation gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 an hour over a five-year period and that is what I believe we have got to do."

He added that was going to support Ernst's amendment "because nobody is talking about doubling the federal minimum wage during the pandemic."

The amendment ultimately passed the Senate by a voice vote, instead of the high-stakes roll call vote that budget watchers were waiting for Republicans to force.

(snip)

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/537483-sanders-defuses-late-night-fight-over-15-minimum-wage

[Johnny2X2X]

1. This is a mistake

They should have taken Manchin's $11 an hour offer because there's no way $15 will ever pass as a stand alone bill.

[My Pet Orangutan]

8. + 11

[localroger]

2. But... but... Bernie's crazy! And unreasonable! nt

[Squinch]

3. Lol. That's an interesting interpretation.

I don't remember him ever saying before that he wants a $15 minimum wage in five years. I don't think his constituents ever heard that little caveat either.

[jorgevlorgan]

5. This is actually Biden's proposal which Sanders is on board with

[Squinch]

9. Does that mean he has caved to the establishment?

[Autumn]

11. No. That means that unlike the democrat Manchin, Bernie supports Joe Biden's agenda and realizes

the damage that can be happen in 2022 and 24 if things don't change. Bernie never put a time limit on raising the minimum wage. It has to be done, whether you like it or not.

[Squinch]

25. Gosh. That seems like incrementalism to me. I think it's fine, but in the past

the bros acted like incrementalism was worse than murder.

Funny how things change.

[Autumn]

29. Yeah the "bros" have changed, they realize Joe is open to things changing. They respect a politician

Last edited Fri Feb 5, 2021, 11:22 PM - Edit history (1)

who considers their needs. It's too bad others are so against change.

[betsuni]

52. +1

[Blue_true]

69. Please stop it. All of us have to stay on the same page.

I believe Senator Sanders sees that the best path forward is to time base the wage increase. I applaud him for that. Florida voters approved a similar plan, even as a majority of them voted for Trump. So the plan that Senator Sanders laid out has broad approval.

[Squinch]

70. Yes. That's why most of us Democrats don't consider incrementalism to be a dirty word.

And never did.

[Blue_true]

71. Until we eliminate republicans as significant officeholders,

incrementalism while making progress is the only workable option.

[Squinch]

72. Most of us have never had a problem with that obvious fact.

Glad to see that those who were so vociferously against it in the past have come around to understanding that reality.

[onetexan]

27. i like that Bernie's amenable to Biden's plan instead of being obstructionist to it, like the GOP

hats off to Bernie

[Autumn]

31. Yes, hats off to Bernie.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. Jan 26th, 2021, and his 2019 bill:

WASHINGTON, January 26 – In a press conference today, incoming Senate Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) joined incoming Senate HELP Committee Chair Patty Murray (D-Wash.), House Committee on Education and Labor Chairman Bobby Scott (D-Va.), Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), and Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.) to announce the introduction of legislation raising the federal minimum wage to $15 by 2025.

The Raise the Wage Act of 2021 would increase the federal minimum wage to $15 in five steps over the next four years. Beginning in 2026, the federal minimum wage would be indexed to median wage growth.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/sanders-top-democrats-introduce-bill-raising-minimum-wage-to-15/

The 'normal' minimum wage goes, in that bill, to $9.50 in 2021: https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/Raise-the-Wage-Act-of-2021-Fact-Sheet-FINAL.pdf (tipped and youth minimum wages are different)

In 2019, the Raise the Wage Act was introduced with 30 co-sponsors in the Senate. The bill would:

raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2024,
index future minimum wage increases to median wage growth, and
end lower than minimum wages for tipped workers, youth workers, and workers with disabilities.

https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-minimum-wage/

So this is his established proposal.

[BarackTheVote]

32. Thank you

I saw him on The View morning yesterday talking about the incremental process that he backed and how much the minimum wage would increase each year. Swear, some people on here try to gaslight you something fierce.

[fishwax]

35. Really? The legislation he's introduced in the past has had a five-year timeline too

The 2019 Raise the Wage act, for instance, called for immediately raising the wage to something line 9/hour and then raising to 15/hour by 2024 (five years).

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?id=BA9A238D-0EC1-45D9-B9E7-6838F158341B

[beastie boy]

4. Does this make an ex-political revolutionary Sanders a middle of the road incrementalist? Amen!

Welcome to the ranks of the Establishment and a political elite, Bernie!

[babylonsister]

6. No, it makes him a realist. nt

[beastie boy]

7. In the same sense it does all the politicians he derided as middle of the road incrementalists, no?

[Squinch]

10. Funny how that works.

[Autumn]

13. Unlike middle of the road politicians Bernie recognizes what can happen in 2022 and 24 if things

don't start changing. The people voted for that and more. If it doesn't happen who will get the blame when Dems lose then? Funny how that works.

[beastie boy]

14. Let me see if I understand your point:

Unlike middle of the road politicians, Bernie recognizes that things need to change, and that's why he is acting like a middle of the road incrementalist... That makes sense: things started changing dramatically when a middle of the road establishment incrementalist became President of the United States. Amen!

My only question is: who are those middle of the road politicians who don't recognize what can happen in '22 and '24 if things don't change?

[Autumn]

15. Yeah play it. Joe is not a middle of the road politician. And the agenda he is setting out there

is not middle of the road. If you don't see that well... you can continue not seeing it.

[beastie boy]

16. Joe used to be as middle of the road as they come when Bernie ran in the primaries. And worse.

To listen to Bernie, he was also an establishment elitist pushing neo-liberal policies. I am super glad Bernie changed his mind. I wish he did so in '16.

So if Biden is not middle of the road anymore, who is? If not Joe, how many Democrats can you name who are pushing an agenda that is to the right of Joe's and who don't recogize, as Bernie does, what could happen in '22 and '24 if things don't change? Are you by any chance referring to Republicans?

[Autumn]

17. Thank you, right there it is... "used to be" BOOM! There you go. nt

[beastie boy]

18. My apologies. I will not attempt sarcasm again.

I thought "to listen to Berne" was a dead giveaway, but apparently you missed it.

Bernie has been referring to Joe as a middle of the road incrementalist only a few months ago. Are you suggesting that Joe underwent a radical change since he won the primaries? Didn't he win the primaries (and the Presidency) BECAUSE he was running as a middle of the road incrementalist, a position Bernie frequently derided? And didn't Bernie lose the primaries because he ran as a political revolutionary?

Getting back to the OP, which, as a reminder, praises Bernie's middle of the road incrementalist approach to minimum wage legislation, it goes to argue that it is Bernie who abandoned his approach to politics, not Joe, and became the middle of the road incrementalist, like Joe.

To which I say: Amen!

[Autumn]

19. Sarcasm? No dude, you owned yourself. EOM.

[beastie boy]

20. Like I said, I will refrain from using sarcasm when addressing you, since you don't seem to get the

concept. Study the content of the post you just replied to, there is no sarcasm there.

Then consider the possibility of the phrase "you own yourself" having a meaning other than what you think it means.

And again, an advice that I believe I gave you before: if you have no arguments that favor you, don't argue. Makes a pathetic spectacle.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. Sanders proposed raising it to $15 *in steps over five years* in 2015

Sanders calls instead for an increase of $7.75. That’s more than double the present level -- which has been steady at $7.25 since 2009 -- and it’s 40 percent higher than the all-time highest inflation-adjusted minimum wage level, $10.69 in February 1968. (Sanders’ bump, it should be noted, wouldn’t come all at once; a bill he introduced in 2015 would phase in the $15 wage incrementally by 2020.)

https://www.politifact.com/article/2016/may/09/fact-checking-minimum-wage-debate/

So, no, Sanders has not "abandoned his approach to politics"; it's something he has been arguing for years, including 2 presidential campaigns. And by 2018 Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi were on board with it - perhaps before (I don't know).

[beastie boy]

22. This shows he has the same goals, but the OP praises him for adopting a

middle of the road incrementalist approach for achieving his goals. That's the radical change I am talking about.

To which I can't help but say: Amen!

On edit: If this wasn't clear, I make a distinction between proposals and achievements.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. The OP does no such thing.

Your "radical change" is in your own head. You're the one who came up with the "middle of the road incrementalist" stuff; it seems you've been ignoring his proposal for 5 years.

No, it's not clear what you mean when you claim you "make a distinction between proposals and achievements". No-one has achieved a minimum wage increase since 2009. So talking about "achievements" just muddies your position further.

[beastie boy]

26. It was the legislators, not me, who were ignoring his proposal for 5 years.

If Bernie was in the position to achieve his proposal, we would have had a $15 minimum wage right now. He kept proposing the same thing for 5 years and he achieved bobkes. Your mention that no one has achieved a minimum wage hike in those 5 years only underscores Bernie's failure. I hope this puts the distinction between proposals and achievements into a proper perspective for you.

Now, five years later, Bernie is in the same place he was 5 years ago, and he is finally pushing for consensus among legislators to achieve his agenda. This is what the OP and the linked article is all about. "Praising" is perhaps a bit strong, but the OP certainly brings attention to this. If this is not a radical change of his approach towards middle of the road incrementalism previosly derided by Bernie, I don't know what is. Which reminds me: middle of the road incrementalism is not the term I came up with. It has been used by Bernie and his supporters, almost exclusively as a derogatory remark, since even before Bernie proposed a minimum wage hike. So don't blame the messenger.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. "the distinction between proposals and achievements into a proper perspective for you." - No.

Your nonsense is just becoming more long-winded.

"he is finally pushing for consensus among legislators to achieve his agenda". Pelosi and Schumer supported it in 2018, as I already told you.

"This is what the OP and the linked article is all about." No, the OP is about defanging the Ernst amendment. That's in plain English.

""Praising" is perhaps a bit strong" - well, it's wrong, in term of how you completed your sentence - "for adopting a middle of the road incrementalist approach for achieving his goals". It wasn't about him "adopting" it at all. Since he's been saying it for over 5 years.

"If this is not a radical change of his approach towards middle of the road incrementalism previosly derided by Bernie, I don't know what is". Yes, it's very, very clear you don't know what this is. Because, and it looks like I have to repeat this again, he's been saying it for over 5 years.

" middle of the road incrementalism is not the term I came up with" ; well, you were the one who introduced it into this thread. I have found one person using it about President Biden - Walker Bragman in a 2019 tweet, who was already obviously an idiot by 2016. I can't find Sanders using it. A link would be appreciated.

[beastie boy]

46. So you don't get the distinction between proposals and achievements. Ok, it takes guts to admit your

limitations. But when you insist your limitations are your virtues, it really puts a damper on people taking you seriously.

What does Pelosi's and Schumer's support have to do with Bernies 5-year long failure to achieve his minimum wage proposal?

How did Bernie manage to put a damper on the Earnst amendment? By being a political revolutionary or by neing a middle of the road incrementalist?

Do you call something Beernie's been saying for 5 years as an approach for achieving his goal? Do you not know the difference between rhetoric and action?... Oh wait, you don't, we've already covered it. Never mind!

Yes, I introduced the term "middle of the road incrementalism" to this thread. Guilty as charged. But I didn't plagiarize, I gave full credit to Bernie and his supporters for borrowing it from their narrative.

Don't tell me you don't know the difference between "what is" and "what it is"! Or are you just trying to be clever with taking what I said out of context? Don't be clever, it doesn't seem to work as you intended. Moreover, let's not fall back on beating a dead horse with ignoring the difference between proposal and achievemment. It has been well established that he proposed a minimum wage hile for 5 years and achieved squat. Believe me, I get it: he's been proposing a minimum wage hile for 5 years, ok? And achieving squat. Can you move on already?... Damn, this is getting pretty tiresome.

And just to humor you: one of the firsr things that came up on Google:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democratic-primary-voters-revolution-incrementalism_n_5d522db6e4b0c63bcbec432b

"“You want incrementalism? Then Trump is going to win the election,” the Vermont independent told HuffPost."

Now, if you will excuse me, I have better things to do. I have to wash my socks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. "Do you call something Bernie's been saying for 5 years as an approach for achieving his goal?" Yes

I mean, obviously, it is. He's steadily built Congressional support for it. That was a truly bizarre question.

"What does Pelosi's and Schumer's support have to do with Bernies 5-year long failure to achieve his minimum wage proposal?"
Wow, what a stupidly leading question. I pointed out Pelosi and Schumer's support in reply to your "he is finally pushing for consensus among legislators to achieve his agenda". Obviously, he was pushing for consensus from when he first sponsored a bill. That's what bills in Congress are about. The 2019 bill passed in the House. It had mass Democratic support.

"How did Bernie manage to put a damper on the Earnst amendment? " By reminding people that they didn't need to oppose the amendment to go ahead with the planned phased increase. Ernst failed in her attempt to divide the Democrats. This was neither by being "a political revolutionary" nor "a middle of the road incrementalist", but a senator who understands legislation.

"Or are you just trying to be clever with taking what I said out of context?" I didn't take it out of context, I just pointed out you are unable to recognise reality.

"let's not fall back on beating a dead horse with ignoring the difference between proposal and achievemment." You're the one beating it. You're trying to persuade people that there has been a "radical change" in Sanders on this topic. There hasn't. He's been sponsoring bills about it for years; what's changed now is we have a Democratic-controlled senate, and a Democratic president. It's not about him changing from a "political revolutionary" to "a middle of the road incrementalist".

Can you move on already?... Damn, this is getting pretty tiresome.

Yes, I expect you will wash your socks better than you post.

[betsuni]

56. Incrementalism/Third Way/neoliberal/centrist/elite/establishment/milquetoast

as insults for Democrats, had to see them every day. FDR "transformative" blah blah blah.

[R B Garr]

24. You are totally right in your recollections. We were told

incrementalism means you’re not really a true and cool Democrat. I don’t recall Bernie emphasizing his phase-in.

Now we’re being lectured that incrementalism was the plan all along.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. You are totally wrong in your assertion.

I've give link after link in this god-forsaken subthread, and you're just ignoring them and asserting your own special reality. The lecture really is needed, it seems.

[R B Garr]

33. Bernie never emphasized incrementalism.

We’ve had years of listening to him, and incrementalism was never emphasized. That’s why the lectures are dismissed as the history revisions they are.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. You mean, apart from in the bills he sponsored?

Informing you that you weren't paying attention is not "history revision".

Go ahead, link to all the times you read or saw him apparently saying the wage should go up in one go. Even if he didn't say it explicitly, you must surely be able to show how you managed to interpret it that way. Shouldn't you?

[R B Garr]

39. I recognize your invitation to get posts hidden,

so I’ll pass on digging up links to years of threads at this very site with the same condescending tone demonizing centrist Democrats.

Were you not here for the Bernie primaries when he ran against other Democrats?

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. I was thinking you'd be able to point to news articles, TV discussions, things like that

No need for you to blame DUers for this.

I've already linked to an article about the 2016 primary which pointed out "Sanders’ bump, it should be noted, wouldn’t come all at once; a bill he introduced in 2015 would phase in the $15 wage incrementally by 2020" - see #21.

Were you not in the USA for that?

The "same condescending tone" as what? We haven't had one quote with a "condescending tone demonizing centrist Democrats" yet.

[R B Garr]

41. Were you here for the Bernie primaries when he ran

against other Democrats? Surely you can link to some threads where Bernie emphasized incrementalism. Thanks.

Edit: oh, just one quick google from 2016:
“Incrementalism is a cowards way of defending the status quo”. Remember?

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. Odd - when I google that phrase, I get no results, from anyone

with or without an apostrophe in "coward's".

No, I don't remember hearing that. But you can give us the link.

I've linked to the article which noted he wanted to increase the minimum wage in increments. QED. You're welcome.

[R B Garr]

43. Oh dear. How strange that you can't google simple

phrases like “Bernie incrementalism Democratic Underground” and read the results. So strange.

So, you’re saying that the Bernie supporters denigrating incrementalism didn’t really know his policies? Wow, that’s odd.

Edit h, and I’m phone typing and also forgot to capitalize Status Quo from the original post. Thanks so much for the very important admonishment about the apostrophe. Maybe that threw you off from finding the post.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. You gave the quote incorrectly. So, no, it's not strange at all.

Having found the thread (it's "method of defending" - if you'd just give a link some time, it'd be a lot easier for everyone), we see what was said in it about Sanders and the minimum wage:

Bernie had to admit that he would not be able to break up the big banks or change the minimum wage to $15/hr overnight. Guess what? That's incrementalism.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511762613#post61

So DU knew he wasn't demanding a sudden increase to $15, even in that thread. Also in https://www.democraticunderground.com/12961788, where it's in the quoted letter to McConnell.
Or there's: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251787061#post28
Or https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251479793#post23
Or his website page "A Living Wage" for the 2016 primaries:

ISSUES
A Living Wage

Millions of Americans are working for totally inadequate wages. We must ensure that no full-time worker lives in poverty. The current federal minimum wage is starvation pay and must become a living wage. We must increase it to $15 an hour over the next several years.
...

https://web.archive.org/web/20150906000019/https://berniesanders.com/issues/a-living-wage/

[R B Garr]

53. So that was so confusing for you, too? An apostrophe, two

words that were not capitalized, and another word that I typed incorrectly on my phone screen, and that throws you off so much? I’m glad you feel superior to my phone typing, but maybe that’s why Bernie lost twice. Condescending mixed messages don’t get people to vote for you.

You should explore the years of Bernie threads since you are the one who can’t remember what happened. I’m so done with Bernie and am so glad we don’t have to go through this type of revisionist history.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. "another word that I typed incorrectly on my phone screen" - well, yes, that's how Google works

You typed "way"; the quote from 2016 was "method". You presented it, with "way", as if it was a quote. You seem to be seriously thinking that I should remember every post on DU. It was Google that was thrown off by your inaccurate quote. I have indeed been exploring, and giving links to, threads on Sanders and the minimum wage. As we can see, he never claimed it was going to be an all-at-once increase, and plenty of DUers knew that.

Your gripe seems to be that you were allowed to believe things that weren't true.

"Revisionist history" is a phrase used for challenging an orthodox view of history. It doesn't mean pointing out to people the simple content of bills, and various discussion of them, from a few years ago.

[R B Garr]

58. I actually left that for you to slobber over. I saw it when I looked again and figured you

would type an entire paragraph about it as a segue into your revisionist history bits. It's all very predictable what you are doing.

Post links where Bernie touts incrementalism, edit: but not instances where he is forced to admit that his radical change rallies were unrealistic and other real world things he was forced to admit. Thanks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. The whole point is that Sanders has advocated a phased change in the minimum wage for 5 years

and a few DUers are acting as though this has suddenly changed. So I've already posted the links you demand.

You do realise that realising you've made a mistake, but leaving it there so someone else would waste time as a result, is basically trolling, don't you?

[R B Garr]

65. The fact is that you think people are stupid enough to

forget what Bernie’s attacks on Democrats were about.

I could say the same thing about trolling —-LOL. Good lord. I’m so glad this part of Bernie world is in the rear view mirror. Go Joe!

[R B Garr]

54. And, how laughable that you don't realize that the thread is lambasting Bernie

for not being realistic, yet you take credit for all of it as in "DU" knew. LOL. There are years of that type of thread. I suggest you go google and read them since you can't remember.

You don't remember Bernie and his "radical change" mantras. Years of them.

Just one google and you get this:
Although Trump has been defeated at the ballot box, the dissatisfaction that helped propel his rise is still with us. This is true in both red and blue America. Across a wide range of subjects — immigration, industrial policy, education and others — a commensurately wide range of thinkers and activists has come to the same conclusion: radical change is necessary. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) captured the spirit of our times when he declared, “Incremental change is not enough.”

Remember? There's just one quote in that article of many years of Bernie touting radical change. "Incremental change is not enough."

Please link to anything where Bernie is touting incrementalism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. The context of the Sanders quote:

Link to tweet

"Incremental change is not enough. We are going to enact a Green New Deal because we have no other option if we want to save our planet."

The Biden campaign on the Green New Deal:

Joe Biden knows there is no greater challenge facing our country and our world. That’s why he is outlining a bold plan – a Clean Energy Revolution – to address this grave threat and lead the world in addressing the climate emergency.

Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected.

https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

So, neither of them favour incremental change on the climate emergency. Both think the Green New Deal is crucial.

[R B Garr]

59. Biden beat Bernie, so it's rather superficial to pick one topic from 2019 and pretend it

is a full measure of Bernie.

Post some links where Bernie touts incrementalism, but not interviews where he is forced to admit things about how unrealistic his radical change campaigning against mainstream, centrist Democrats was. Thanks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. It was you who brought up that Sanders quote. I gave its context.

It's ridiculous to pick one quote from 2019 and then criticise someone else for actually examining it.

[R B Garr]

64. You misrepresented what the 2016 thread was about, too, which

is really the only thing you can do. We all know what Bernie’s war on incrementalism was about and silly snarky revisionist history isn’t going to change that. I’m so glad we don’t have to go through the reality denials again.

Feel free to check my phone typing punctuation. The Bernie misrepresentations are a complete waste of time, ugh. Go Joe!

Edit: I notice you have no substantive comments about the NYTimes article. It’s just lowbrow personal attacks. So glad we don’t have to put up with that anymore.

[R B Garr]

73. What a joke. You misrepresented this, as well. This quote is not from what you

are trying to spin. Pathetic. But this is all you have. Revisionist history and misrepresentations.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/527568-in-defense-of-incrementalism-a-call-for-radical-realism

Oh, and I'm home with my husband today, so dealing with the bernie revisionists is not a priority.

[muriel_volestrangler]

77. I didn't "misrepresent" it at all. I pointed out where it came from.

The Hill opinion piece gave it as a context-free quote from Sanders. I pointed out the one time he actually wrote it.

Your idea of saying anyone pointing out facts that are against your preconceived ideas or your bad memory is "revisionist history" is ridiculous. It's as if you think you can make your own reality.

[R B Garr]

78. Wrong. You posted something entirely different and

you were the one who made it about Biden vs Bernie.

I’m so sick of this kind of underhanded manipulation. The Bernie wars are over, and he lost twice. Take a clue from that and move on. This is shameful and so unnecessary.

Edit: laughable that you pretend Bernie said something ONE time about incrementalism.

[muriel_volestrangler]

79. No, I gave the one time Sanders gave the quote you used.

This thread is bizarre; Sanders successfully disposes of a Republican ruse, advancing Biden's objectives, by pointing out how this has been the plan for Sanders and the Democrats for some time, and the never-Sanders diehards are determined to paint this as some kind of reversal for him. If you really thought "the Bernie wars are over", then you wouldn't even have bothered joining the thread like you did. It's the never-Sanders group that are still determined to disparage him. It's you who really needs to "take a clue and move on".

There is no "underhanded manipulation" in my posts. All I've done is post the history of the minimum wage push. It's clear some didn't know much about it, but felt compelled to post anyway. What has been shameful and unnecessary was the attempt to do down Sanders. It'd help Democratic and progressive unity if you didn't have kneejerk "down with Bernie" reactions every time his name is mentioned. This bit of news was a success for us; you've been determined to use it to divide us.

[R B Garr]

80. Your petty personal sniping is only filling me with glee again

again that Sanders lost twice. I saw your posts doing the same thing to another poster...trying to imply they were too stupid to remember what the Bernie wars were about. Move on.

Take your anger and pettiness and go wallow in the 2016 and other post mortem primary war forums, but leave me alone. There are thousands of threads there that you can misrepresent, but I’m not going to waste my time.

You are posting nothing of substance except your history revisions. People know what Sanders’ campaigns were about, and he lost twice. Move on.

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. It's quite incredible that you, who are insisting this thread is about 2 past primaries

when it's obviously about the current minimum wage legislation, are telling other people to 'move on'. You are obsessed with past primaries, and are thus useless in discussions of current politics.

[R B Garr]

82. Oh, good luck with that. Calling people useless will

also be an uphill battle for you. You have your work cut out for you.

People asking what happened to Bernie’s radical change attacks on other Democrats will be keeping you busy. Maybe you could lobby him to issue some kind of statement so the majority who voted against him can see he is now a “realist, mainstream, centrist.”

[R B Garr]

60. NYTimes: Bernie says "no" to Incrementalism, highlighting divide among Democrats

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-democrats.html

[betsuni]

61. Bernie is "willing to accept incrementalism. He just doesn't want to talk about it."

It was the whole "authentic" "consistent" "fight for" "transformative" purity image. All anyone has to do is search for "Incrementalism Democrats" and a festival of nonsense appears. People who don't understand how government works falls for that. Do as I say, not as I do!

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-image-left-wing-purist-belied-record-compromise-n1143956

[R B Garr]

66. Exactly. It's just so basic to his entire campaign.

The war on incrementalism and all the purity crap.

[betsuni]

67. And that fifteen was the magic number, the only number: anything else wasn't progressive

and out came the centrist/establishment/elitist/corporatist/neoliberal/incrementalist/Third Way/beholden to wealthy donors and Wall Street, ignore the working and middle class/status quo bullshit insults.

Now that a Democrat is president the magic has worn off the number fifteen.

[R B Garr]

74. Yes! It's really pathetic that we have to pretend that 5 to 6 years of this nonsense

has to be rewritten. It's so dishonest and really seems like another vehicle to attack people personally. I am so glad we don't have this in our lives anymore, or at least it's been minimized, except for a few hold-overs who think they can insult people into compliance about Bernie. So sick of it.

I do remember all those names -- I remember the attacks on Democrats about incrementalism. Bernie's whole ethos was radical change. Sorry about any punctuation, but I'm home with my husband and we're watching movies. Much more important than googling old, well-known Bernie news.

[betsuni]

75. We were assured it was all about policy, when it was nothing but attacks on character.

Slogans and buzzwords aren't policy. Turning Democrats into THEM. Us/Them. Progressive grassroots/Establishment. Pure, good/Corrupt, evil. Revolution/Status quo. Going on and on about how everybody is out to get them and will stop at nothing to defeat them because everybody's corrupted by the donor class, Big Pharma, Wall Street, oligarchs, billionaires and hate their "radical" policies that are actually classic Democratic ideas. What a waste of time. Pathetic.

It's wonderful to not have to see/hear that cartoonish bullshit every day!

[R B Garr]

76. Perfectly stated, betsuni. Brings back the disgust at

all of it. And we had our hands tied behind our backs to deal with it or it would have been short work to handle. A pathetic waste of time, indeed! You are right, it was nothing but attacks on character. Thanks for your post that brings this subthread into perspective.

[Cha]

45. Touche'

[fishwax]

36. nah, this is pretty consistent with what he's advocated in the past

[Mariana]

50. This is consistent with legislation he has proposed in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/07/22/bernie-sanders-proposes-federal-minimum-wage-of-15-an-hour/

[betsuni]

51. +1

[malaise]

37. The D & R posse is still in full swing

Ah well!

[DeminPennswoods]

38. By 2025, $15/hr will be very close to what businesses are

paying as a starting wage. Right now, in my area, Walmart is starting employees at $12/hr, BK $12/hr for new closing shift employees, Aldi $11.75 for new employees and so on.

[Xolodno]

47. Makes sense.

A sudden doubling of the minimum wage would be a bit of an economic shock to small businesses and many are going to go kaput as it is due to COVID, don't need to exasperate the problem. Of course, other large companies could absorb this easily, but the stock earnings will go lower and the stock value will drop...the QOP loves to protect the big guys.

But the problem is, soon as it hits $15...it will be time to look at raising it again. It's still a band-aid on a larger problem. There should be a test at the state level, if the current minimum is suffice for the state, then it can remain at the federal. However, the state should adjust it higher if the cost of living is more. And the Federal minimum wage should be taken away from Congress and moved to an economic agency that automatically reviews every five years, adjusts and implements over the next five years.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. After the wage gets to $15 in 2025, it will be indexed

Index future increases in the federal minimum wage to median wage growth to ensure the value of the minimum wage does not erode over time

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/Raise-the-Wage-Act-of-2021-Fact-Sheet-FINAL.pdf

From the bill:

In calculating the annual percentage increase in
13 the median hourly wage of all employees for purposes of
14 paragraph (1)(B), the Secretary, through the Bureau of
15 Labor Statistics, shall compile data on the hourly wages
16 of all employees to determine such a median hourly wage
17 and compare such median hourly wage for the most recent
18 year for which data are available with the median hourly
19 wage determined for the preceding year.’’.
https://edlabor.house.gov/imo/media/doc/Raise%20the%20Wage%20Bill%20Text1.pdf

[Blue_true]

68. Florida voters approved a similar plan in November.

The minimum wage goes up something like a dollar plus right away, but reach $15 per hour over like a four year period.