Guns Yes, Dogs No.

[Pryderi]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by cyberswede (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I recently visited Mount Rushmore, and a gentleman was walking his dog towards the viewing area and was stopped by a park ranger. Dogs are not allowed into the viewing area, but a loaded gun is fine.

Seems fucked up to me.

[Missycim]

1. Well that doesn't surprise me that you are confused

A dog can piss and crap anywhere the owner wants (some dont curb them) and could also bite people without notice. To my knowledge its very very unlikely a holstered gun will jump out and start randomly shooting people on a whim.

[Chorophyll]

2. Yep, dog crap and guns. An equivalent danger.

[Missycim]

4. Well dog crap breeds diseases

and is unsightly, a holstered gun under a shirt is just as bad? LOL

[magical thyme]

18. responsible dog owners pick up their dog's poop

and socialize their dogs. Irresponsible owners can be easily seen and heard, and can be ordered to clean up their dog's mess and leave.

Irresponsible gun owners occasionally drop their hidden, loaded guns, cause panic and occasionally shoot somebody. They can subsequently be ordered out or made to pay medical bills, but the damage is done.

[Missycim]

19. You have proof of such behavior of gun owners

in forests? Not shootings of criminals, just dropped guns and such?

[JanMichael]

42. oh Christ on a trailorhitch

can you name ONE person? ONE? That you either know, or a friend or relative knows, that was sickened or died from a disease caused by dog poop outside?

Jesus Christ, we are a nation of idiots.

[Missycim]

43. It hurts that I am allowed to carry a gun in national parks

doesn't it?

If dog poop is so beneficial why do they fine people for not curbing their dogs?

[JanMichael]

44. We own guns...so let's get that crap out of the way right

the hell now.

WHERE in my post did you come to the brilliant conclusion that "dog poop is so beneficial?"

WHERE?

[geckosfeet]

8. Well you know, an unholstered dog is pretty darn scary. They bark and growl and snarl.

Sometimes they bite. And they can kill - 31 fatal dog attacks in 2011
2011 dog bite fatalities

Gun death per 100,000 in US - approx 10 (2004 - 2006). That seems like a lot... 1 in 10,000.
List of countries by firearm-related death rate

[Pryderi]

3. Yeah. Random shootings never happen... n/t

[Missycim]

5. Well its so bad in the forrests there's blood flowing on the trails

oh wait its not.

[Kolesar]

7. Think "school cafeteria" eom

[KurtNYC]

31. here's one

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-22-hunters-killed_x.htm

[Missycim]

32. Thats a crimnal act

I was asked about dropped guns that go off, etc. Criminal acts happen everywhere and I am pretty are banned in national parks.

[zanana1]

27. Watch out; here comes the gun "enthusiast" patrol! nt

[Missycim]

35. Sorry the gun grabbers beat us here first :(

nt

[iamthebandfanman]

40. STOP TRYING TO TAKE AWAY MY DOG WALKING RIGHTS

OMG WHAT COUNTRY IS THIS NAZI GERMANY !?!
RESPONSIBLE LEGAL DOG OWNERS CLEAN UP THEIR POO!!!!!

HANDS OFF MY DOG YOU FREEDOM HATERS!!!!!!!!!

[Missycim]

41. Hey I am all for your rights

but you have to be in a militia to walk your dog.

[Missycim]

6. lets put it another way

I have had more trouble with dogs in forests and out of forests then I have ever had with CC'ers

[Sekhmets Daughter]

14. Well you know what they say about animals and babies...

[Missycim]

15. I don't remember, so what do they say? lol

nt

[Duppers]

23. strange that I recently defended dogs being on trails on a Tenn. forum

I and others protested the fact that horses (another animal I love) are allowed on trails in the GSMNP. They are destroying many of the trails in the Smokies.

I posted:

"Personally I'm glad that hunting, trapping and logging have been forbidden in the Park and horses should also be stopped altogether. (The LaConte pack Llamas don't damage the trails nearly as much.)

The problem of horses damaging the trails is due to strong politically connected members of horse riding groups and not any objective evaluation of the damaged trails. Tradition? Or just political connected rich folk?

And on the subject of dogs, they were a part of the history of the settlement of the area and of Mt. LeConte in particular: "Paul Adams' constant companion on Mount Le Conte during that winter was a large German shepherd named Cumberland Jack."
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Mount-Le-Conte/dp/1572330104
and ....
http://kiva.lib.utk.edu/adams/ "

And, btw, my hubs always carried a weapon when hiking the back-country trails, even before it was legal. Once a few decades ago, I was surprised and charged by momma bear. Lucky for me and my camping buddies, she was bluffing. When you're ten miles from help in the back-country, you need a weapon, even in a national park.

I favor allowing both dogs and weapons in national parks. Most dog owners on trails are responsible. Lazy-assed jerks usually don't hike.



Missycim, I suspect by the way you write about dogs that you must hate them and that colors your thinking.

[Missycim]

24. Hell to the no

I love dogs and have had two up until recently (I only have one now). I just find the op really clueless, dogs do way more damage to parks and forests then lawful CC carriers. I don't mean that dogs do a lot of damage its just very hard to find any stories of lawful carriers doing much damage at all. So if you have a handful of dogs pooping on the ground thats a ton more damage then CCer's do

[Victor_c3]

26. Ditto

I have a carry conceal permit.

I had a pretty scary run-in with an unleashed dog when I was walking on a trail before. I had two beagles (25 pound dogs) on a leash and, coming the other direction, some guy had a big white dog off of a leash. The dog had a big lead on the owner and I didn't see the owner at all for quite some time while I was struggling with his dog. The dog went totally nuts on me and my dogs.

The guy's dog was lucky. My pistol was under my jacket and wasn't easily accessible. I probably would have shot his dog had the owner taken much longer to get to his own dog. I didn't even see the owner anywhere for a while and I thought I was getting attacked by some ferrel dog.

Someone else mentioned dropping a firearm and that causing them to go off. I have never seen that happen at all. I once had to do a formal investigation while I was in the Army about a negligent discharge that someone had when they claimed that they dropped their M-16. I spent a day with the guys M-16 dropping on hard pavement to try to get the thing to go off. I thought he might have had a legitimate claim for a while too. If you never take the ammunition out of your magazines and you constantly lock and load the same first round in your M-16, after a couple of months you'll see a small dimple start to form on the primer of that same round where the firing pin must just slightly rest there. However, I was never able to get the weapon to discharge from being dropped - and I've never noticed this dimple phenomenon occur on any other weapon that I've owned or used.

I'm probably in the minority on this forum, but the pro-gun thing is the only "conservative" belief I still hold on to.

[zanana1]

29. "ferrel" dog? Are you off your meds?

First of all, that's spelled "feral". And the idea that you even thought of shooting somebody's dog tells me alot.

[Victor_c3]

33. spel cheque did'nt ketch it

If I would have seen the owner (and he would have been responsible to keep his dog on a leash and under control) I wouldn't have thought it was a fer(r)el dog.

The guy just let his dog go and do whatever he wanted. That guy wasn't anywhere near his dog. I wouldn't have thought about shooting it if he would have been visible or anywhere near his dog. If you have your dog off of a leash, you're just asking for problems.

[ileus]

9. Unlike guns, dogs sometimes can't be controlled by their owners

A fine SD firearm is always under the will of the owner.

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. DUzy.

[porphyrian]

10. Guns don't shit on the walkway? n/t

[darkangel218]

11. lol!! :)

[porphyrian]

46. ...

[Hoyt]

12. Shows how little we've progressed in this country.

I'd really have to wonder about anyone walking around Rushmere with a gun. I'd wager they are likely to support TParty.

[Missycim]

37. Funny thing is

you'd never know that they had a gun unless you are the kind of guy that likes to randomly frisk people out of the blue.

[Hoyt]

38. You'd be surprised how easy it is to tell.

[Missycim]

39. well then explain

how you can tell?

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Guns aren't allowed in buildings there.

I don't know about dogs.

Actually, I don't see the need for either at Mt. Rushmore, of all places.

[Victor_c3]

30. I have to agree with that

Like you said, there is no valid reason I could think of as to why I would need to carry a pistol to Mount Rushmore.


Even though I have a CC permit, I very rarely ever carry a pistol. If I'm going somewhere or doing something that I think I need a pistol to protect myself, I probably shouldn't be going there or doing that thing.

The only exception is when I'm hiking and in the middle of the forest. I'll carry a pistol then.

[sl8]

17. Thomas Jefferson letter regarding dogs

From http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/letter-hostility-to-dogs :

To Peter Minor

Dear Sir
Monticello Sep. 24. 11

I participate in all your hostility to dogs, and would readily join in any plan for exterminating the whole race. I consider them as the most afflicting of all the follies for which men tax themselves. but as total extirpation cannot be hoped for, let it be partial. I like well your outlines of a law for this purpose: but should we not add a provision for making the owner of a dog liable for all the mischeif done by him, and requiring that every dog shall wear a collar with the name of the person inscribed who shall be security for his honest demeanor? I believe your calculation of their numbers & cost is far within bounds; & I am satisfied that taking the whole mass of dogs in the state into consideration, the average of what they get fairly & unfairly of the food fit for man, would1 feed a man. are there not as many sheep and hogs annually lost to the owners, by dogs, or with their aid, as there are dogs in the state? the petition to the legislature should I think refer to the wisdom of the legislature whether the law should be general, or confined to the counties below the ridge, or local to such counties only as shall chuse to be named in it, but should pray ultimately that if no other county concurs, it may yet be made the law for the county of Albemarle. I know of no service I can render in this business, unless perhaps to write to some friends in the legislature to interest themselves in promoting it. accept assurances of my esteem & respect.

Th:Jefferson

[Hoyt]

34. Interesting. I was first disappointed in Jefferson when I realized he was a slave owner. Now this.

[secondwind]

20. AN IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER WOULD HAVE LEFT THE DOG IN THE CAR.. IN THE HEAT

[abelenkpe]

21. I love posts

That flush out insane gun nuts so I can out them and their lunacy on ignore.

[Hoyt]

36. Me too.

[RC]

22. Neither should be allowed.

Too many people don't properly train or clean up after their dogs. Some people don't like to hear that, but it's the truth.
And anyone paranoid enough to think they need a gun to go out in public, should not be allowed to have a gun in the first place.
And for the reading comprehension challenged, the last sentence has to do with those that think they need concealed carry and not with the stash in the bedroom closet, or the gun under the pillow or in the night stand.
Gun related injuries and deaths, accidental and otherwise, in the United States are many time higher than in any other comparable country.

[Drahthaardogs]

25. I like guns and I like dogs, my favorite though are gundogs.

Most people do not know how to handle either very well.

[onehandle]

28. GOPNRA madness. nt

[99Forever]

45. I've had...

... dogs my entire life of 59 years and currently have 5 with a kennel license. None, not a single one I have ever been owned by, has EVER injured, let alone killed a person. Either deliberately or accidentally. Not one, ever.

Less than 2 weeks ago, a gun was used to kill 5 and seriously injure 3 others, just doing their jobs, at their place of employment,within a 15 minute drive of our home.

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. Seems to me that the problem with both dogs & guns are the people that own them. n/t

[cyberswede]

48. Locking...

I'm afraid this post doesn't meet the SoP for GD.

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