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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(135,387 posts)
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:48 PM Feb 2021

Ex-GOP congressman suggests many Republicans are discussing whether to form a new anti-Trump party

Former Rep. Charlie Dent (R—PA) revealed he and other Republicans have begun discussing whether to form a “new party or a new faction” in the wake of “ugly populism that we’ve witnessed the last four years under President Trump” in a new interview.

Speaking with CNN on Saturday, the former GOP lawmaker and longtime critic of former President Donald Trump shared how he had recently participated in a summit in which the idea of conservatives “united around core principles like democracy” forming their own party had been discussed.

“A new faction within the party or one that operates independently of the party,” he said. “That's the conversation that many Republicans are having.”

Asked whether he was concerned about Republicans like him “surrendering the party to a fringe element” of extremists and conspiracy theorists, the former congressman said: “Well, I think that's a real fear.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-gop-congressman-suggests-many-194545448.html

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ex-GOP congressman suggests many Republicans are discussing whether to form a new anti-Trump party (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2021 OP
Please Proceed vrguy Feb 2021 #1
PLEASE Proceed sfstaxprep Feb 2021 #2
the hilarious thing is... WarGamer Feb 2021 #3
"Their dog is eying them for dinner" Blue_true Feb 2021 #15
the Ryans, Flakes and McCains all benefitted from the Tea Party... WarGamer Feb 2021 #17
Any republican that is willing to compromise, even a small amount, Blue_true Feb 2021 #25
Here's the thing: MontanaFarmer Feb 2021 #4
That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say Clash City Rocker Feb 2021 #8
I agree with you RainCaster Feb 2021 #12
Good call. MontanaFarmer Feb 2021 #13
This country has a very long history of anti-intellectualism. Blue_true Feb 2021 #18
I think Dan Quayle was first DBoon Feb 2021 #29
I think Buckley & Goldwater laid the modern foundation along with The Birch society in the 1950's Tommymac Feb 2021 #31
Yes, thank you Hekate Feb 2021 #24
Go for it! :) n/t servermsh Feb 2021 #5
Go for it bdamomma Feb 2021 #6
If they bury them... they will be more of a minority Party than they are now. Good. Fuck 'em! nt albacore Feb 2021 #11
I honestly wish them luck. Tom Rinaldo Feb 2021 #7
It won't be outside the party. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author brewens Feb 2021 #10
Well, Mr. former congressman, no, you didn't surrender the party to the fringe element... JHB Feb 2021 #14
Maybe their clue should have been that all the racists became Blue_true Feb 2021 #19
To stop the infighting, they'll need to split into several parties. KY_EnviroGuy Feb 2021 #16
Excellent post. You defined the problem in a nutshell. Blue_true Feb 2021 #20
Look at Germany DBoon Feb 2021 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author intheflow Feb 2021 #21
They can call themselves the ROP. intheflow Feb 2021 #22
Starting a new party won't work, the system is heavily set up for two to prevail. Xolodno Feb 2021 #23
I agree. They'll have to work from within -- a daunting task. BarbD Feb 2021 #27
Won't make a difference unless they can get a couple dozen currently serving GOP to switch. Nt Fiendish Thingy Feb 2021 #26
typical about republicans -ya can't fix stupid monkeyman1 Feb 2021 #28
 

sfstaxprep

(10,599 posts)
2. PLEASE Proceed
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:51 PM
Feb 2021

Go ahead and split the party.

The truth is, an Anti-Drumpf party has little chance of survival. There are far more Cult members than anti-Cult members in the party.

WarGamer

(18,589 posts)
3. the hilarious thing is...
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:51 PM
Feb 2021

These pompous FOOLS loved it when the "fringe" was small and controllable like the "Tea Party" and they won the House...

But now their dog is eyeing THEM for dinner and they become "anti-dog"...

Sooo... Charlie, you created it, now deal with it.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
15. "Their dog is eying them for dinner"
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:46 PM
Feb 2021

That train left the station when Ryan was speaker. The loons took over the GOP in 2010 and never looked back.

WarGamer

(18,589 posts)
17. the Ryans, Flakes and McCains all benefitted from the Tea Party...
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:50 PM
Feb 2021

because it was a minority movement but large enough to take the House and State Leg's.

Now... Frankenstein is all growed up and looking for victims. Romney, Cheney, Sasse and Kinzinger are on the menu.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
25. Any republican that is willing to compromise, even a small amount,
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:47 PM
Feb 2021

is on the dog’s menu. Consuming that menu will only cause the dog to want to eat up more of society. That is why democratic voters, under our widely spread-out tent, must stick together and blow the crap-house called the Republican Party to bits, and if the Romneys, Sasses, et al want to stay in that crap-house, we blow them up along with the crap-house.

MontanaFarmer

(761 posts)
4. Here's the thing:
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 08:55 PM
Feb 2021

I support this for more reasons than the short-term electoral gain that would inevitably come for our party. There needs to be 2 functioning political parties proposing alternative ideas for how the country should run. We have not had that for 30 years at least; gingrich's bullshit poisoned the country. Maybe clear back to St. Ronnie the used car salesman. If the Republicans can be a functioning party again i don't think that's bad, it'll mean a purge of the fringe. Can they do it? I've my doubts, but time will tell.

RainCaster

(13,681 posts)
12. I agree with you
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:25 PM
Feb 2021

But I think the stupidity definitely began with Saint Ronny. His pandering to the religious right began the whole downward slope of the party. Gingrich's "contract on America" was just more of the same. Then we had "a thousand points of light", Baby Bush, President Cheney and so many more bad things.

MontanaFarmer

(761 posts)
13. Good call.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:35 PM
Feb 2021

I think the tipping point for the anti-intellectial, nativist, out-loud racist shit that led to a reality TV star being elected was the Thrilla from Wasilla
I remember thinking at the time how stunning it was that people were perfectly fine putting an idiot, a not-well-read dunce that near the levers of power. A fair bit of foreshadowing, that.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
18. This country has a very long history of anti-intellectualism.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:54 PM
Feb 2021

It dates back almost to the country’s founding, the notion that a poorly read idiot can drop his mule-plough or hope off a tractor to go to Washington DC to make laws. The reason why the Republican Party and evangelicals hate the teaching profession so much is that teachers ingrain in young people the capacity to observe and make rational comparisons, both poison to jackleg preachers or ethics challenged politicians.

DBoon

(24,957 posts)
29. I think Dan Quayle was first
Sun Feb 7, 2021, 01:54 PM
Feb 2021

and like palin was a sop to the fundamentalist anti-intellectuals

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
31. I think Buckley & Goldwater laid the modern foundation along with The Birch society in the 1950's
Sun Feb 7, 2021, 03:11 PM
Feb 2021

Thank the Koch Crime family also. They have been supporting Movement Conservatism since forever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_conservatism

Paul Krugman described the rise of movement conservatism in his 2007 book The Conscience of a Liberal as occurring in several phases between 1950 and Reagan's election as President in 1980. These phases included building a conceptual base, a popular base, a business base, and an institutional infrastructure of think tanks. By the 2000s, movement conservatives had substantial control over the Republican Party.[8]

Conceptual base

Editor William F. Buckley Jr. (left) and former President Ronald Reagan were dominant leaders of the movement from the 1950s to the 1980s
Author and magazine editor William F. Buckley Jr. was one of the founding members of the movement. His 1951 book God and Man at Yale argued against Keynesian economics, progressive taxation and the welfare state and gave him a national audience. In 1955, he founded National Review, which provided a platform for arguing the movement conservative viewpoint. His emphasis was on an anti-Communist foreign policy and a pro-business, anti-union domestic policy. However, in its early days the magazine also included sentiments of white supremacy. In the August 24, 1957 issue, Buckley's editorial "Why the South Must Prevail" spoke out explicitly in favor of segregation in the South. It argued that "the central question that emerges... is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas where it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yes – the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race.".[9][10] When the conservative editor and intellectual William F. Buckley, Jr., ran for mayor of New York in 1965, he may have been the first conservative to endorse affirmative action, or, as he called it, “the kind of special treatment [of African Americans] that might make up for centuries of oppression.” He also promised to crack down on labor unions that discriminated against minorities, a cause even his liberal opponents were unwilling to embrace. Buckley pointed out the inherent unfairness in the administration of drug laws and in judicial sentencing. He also advanced a welfare “reform” plan whose major components were job training, education and daycare.

In 1969, in his capacity as founding editor of National Review, launched a decade and a half earlier as a “conservative weekly journal of opinion” that stood in opposition to the dominant liberal ethos of the time, Buckley toured African-American neighborhoods in Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, Oakland, Los Angeles and Atlanta organized by the Urban League and afterward singled out for special praise “community organizers” who were working “in straightforward social work in the ghettos.” In an article in Look magazine months later, Buckley anticipated that the United States could well elect an African-American president within a decade, and that this milestone would confer the same reassurance and social distinction upon African Americans that Roman Catholics had felt upon the election of John F. Kennedy. That, he said, would be “welcome tonic” for the American soul. This Buckley, who emerged in the years after 1965, bore little resemblance (having been horrifically disfigured in a tragic accident while skinny-dipping) to the one who, eight years earlier in 1957, had penned an editorial he titled “Why the South Must Prevail”. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/13/william-f-buckley-civil-rights-215129

The movement also gathered support from such disparate sources as libertarian Monetarists like economist Milton Friedman and neoconservatives like Irving Kristol. Friedman attacked government intervention and regulation in the 1950s and thereafter. Other free market economists began rejecting the expansion of the welfare state embodied in President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal. Friedman also associated himself with the 1964 presidential campaign of Barry Goldwater, the first time a movement conservative ran for President, unsuccessfully in this case. Sociologist Irving Kristol and the magazine The Public Interest were another source of intellectual direction for the movement. During the 1960s, Kristol and his associates argued against the Great Society policies of President Lyndon B. Johnson, which had expanded the welfare state through Medicare and the War on Poverty.[8]


albacore

(2,747 posts)
11. If they bury them... they will be more of a minority Party than they are now. Good. Fuck 'em! nt
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:22 PM
Feb 2021

Tom Rinaldo

(23,187 posts)
7. I honestly wish them luck.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:01 PM
Feb 2021

I do of course realize that in the short to intermediate run this would clearly benefit Democrats, and I don't mind that in the least. But over the long run one party states or overwhelming single party rule almost invariably breeds corruption and is unhealthy to democracy. Beyond that is the fact that there always will be some rather fundamental differences of opinions among large groups of people about how to deal with issues that effect us all. The Democratic Party will never represent everyone, and given that reality, I would rather have an opposition party or parties that are sane and have at least some respect for democracy itself.

They have a tough road ahead of them, right now they are badly outnumbered.

TwilightZone

(28,836 posts)
9. It won't be outside the party.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:17 PM
Feb 2021

If anything, it will be like the Tea Party, which, contrary to what they tried to claim, was never a separate entity.

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

JHB

(38,168 posts)
14. Well, Mr. former congressman, no, you didn't surrender the party to the fringe element...
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:43 PM
Feb 2021

What happened was that you were suddenly and uncomfortably confronted with the fact that the "fringe element" was the Republican Party, and it was you who were the real fringe.

The beast you rode to success and power bucked you off.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
19. Maybe their clue should have been that all the racists became
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:58 PM
Feb 2021

republicans when the Civil Rights Act was passed, with Democrats passing it.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,780 posts)
16. To stop the infighting, they'll need to split into several parties.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 09:47 PM
Feb 2021

Over the last 50 years, they carelessly sucked in a bunch of disparate factions just to get votes and now they're surprised they just can't get along.

* The old-fashion anti-tax pro-business Bob Dole arm (mostly ultra wealthy businessmen).
* The Reagan/Gingrich anti-everything government branch.
* The evangelical religious nut cabal.
* The rabid gun nut coalition with sub-branches of dozens of pickup truck militias.
* The Trump brigade, including the new Qanon battalion, the Fascist company and the Confederacy group.
* The Libertarian arm (anti-everything group).

Note that any given Rethug voter may be card-carrying members of any or all of the above. In reality, if they start a new party, in time they will draw all those groups right back in.

Republicans cannot govern......

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
20. Excellent post. You defined the problem in a nutshell.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:06 PM
Feb 2021

If people like Dent, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson, George Conway want to build a new Republican Party, they are going to have to cast some elements into the wilderness and never look back toward them, or allow the rejects to crawl back in. Essentially, they have to be fine with losing political races of principled policy debate to Democrats, and not fall for the urge to pull back in racists, religious loons, and just run-of-the-mill loons to win on bullshit conspiracy spinning.

DBoon

(24,957 posts)
30. Look at Germany
Sun Feb 7, 2021, 01:58 PM
Feb 2021

They have a mainstream Christian Democratic party, which is actually capable of governing

Then there is the FDP, a small libertarianish party

Then there is the AfD, a nationalist populist party, like our Trump party

I could see the Republicans splitting along similar lines, though the equivalent of the Christian Democrats would be much smaller

Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Original post)

Xolodno

(7,348 posts)
23. Starting a new party won't work, the system is heavily set up for two to prevail.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 10:35 PM
Feb 2021

But creating a new faction will probably work. It will probably small at first, but it could bring back those who have become independent or just stopped trying. And eventually bring in a world of hurt on the rabid base.

For example, during budget negotiations, they side with Democrats, gain some projects for their districts/states at the expense of the fruit loops. People change their minds pretty fast when their wallet starts to hurt.

BarbD

(1,416 posts)
27. I agree. They'll have to work from within -- a daunting task.
Sat Feb 6, 2021, 11:38 PM
Feb 2021

No time like the present to begin. They can start with the few who have voted with the Dems.

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