I'm a Christian Dem and Frustrated

[Sugarmaggie]

I drove by a church marquee yesterday and they wove in a religious message that said something like when you stand before the Lord it won’t be rigged. Churches on both side need to keep their political viewpoints out of the pulpit if they want to retain their tax exempt status. You want to support a candidate, then pay your taxes like everyone else.

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Agree. However the IRS does NOTHING with reports of these violations AFAIK. Because Jeebus...

[paleotn]

14. Fear of a 1st Amendment quagmire.

The federal government is loath to going to court in what will inevitably devolve into a freedom of religion fight. It never plays well when those who actually control the country (the religious) have a strange martyr complex.

[grantcart]

36. A several years ago I regularly passed a Church in southern AZ (on the way to Douglas

from Sierra Vista) and a medium sized Church had a sign proclaiming it as the "Southern Arizona Headquarters for the Tea Party".

After passing it a dozen times I resolved to make a complaint to the IRS. I parked my car across the street (attired in a suit similar to what an FBI agent might wear). I spent 15 minutes taking pictures from different angles. Someone from inside came out and observed me taking pictures.

On my way back a week later on my return trip I was surprised to see all of the political signs taken down.

Talk about consciousness of guilt.

[pazzyanne]

2. ...

Matthew 22:21
"Caesar's," they answered. So Jesus told them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

[sanatanadharma]

3. When they stand before the Lord it won't be rigged and ythey will be judged and found lacking

Without the rigged support of inchoate inbred theology and false preachers and deluded congregations and the egoic-certainty that "I am saved", the objective judgement of God will be harsh and a huuuge surprise to many as they realize that they were not on the side of 'good people'.

Assuming God believes in the 10 Commandments, the always wrong right-wings of politics and Christianity (et al) are going to be judged harshly and without the 'situational ethics' that has become quite popular among the recently intractable.

[True Blue American]

8. Agree!

[DeSmet]

24. Yes

And it will be the First Commandment they have broken.

[lindysalsagal]

28. This is the only argument that sometimes makes me wish there was a god.

But it comes with the assumption the the thing is benevolent and kind. And there's absolutely no evidence of that, either.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

4. The government needs an investigative agency that infiltrates the fascist churches and take videos

of the preachers preaching hate and fascism, in order to prove that they are fascist political organizations and not religious organizations, and take away their tax exemptions.

The revenue from revoking the tax exemptions could fund the agency. Fascist evangelicalism is widespread, and even some of the traditional churches are preaching fascist doctrine.

Jobs would be created, and the revenue from busting the tax cheats would be considerable.

[True Blue American]

10. We had a big investigation here

When Obama ran. Churches, especially Catholic were brazenly telling their parishioners not to vote for Obama. I was attending a Southern Baptist Church. When I heard that it was the last straw. I lost a lot of friends. The expose stopped them.

One woman actually sent out a Sermon from the leadership comparing Trump to Churchill in the Prayer Chain. Next time I saw her she avoided me. I had let her know who I felt.

[Squinch]

5. Call the church or write the church and tell them that, and tell them that their published

message is singularly unchristian because it is fomenting disagreement and strife.

[Mariana]

6. I don't know if enforcing the Johnson Amendment

is on President Biden's to-do list. I hope it is. The partisan preaching that's going on on much of Christian television and radio, many Christian online ministries, and in thousands of Christian churches is incredibly damaging to society.

[smirkymonkey]

7. Hear, hear!

[JHB]

9. They seem a little fuzzy on the "thou shalt not bear flase witness" thing.

[BComplex]

11. By chance, Sugarmaggie, do you live in North Carolina? Our AG church in town has that

same marquee.

[Sugarmaggie]

30. Indiana

Shocker I know.

[mucifer]

12. I gotta say my liberal Jewish Synagogue gets pretty political. The Rabbi uses coded words

to get the message across. I know it's the same for a lot of Black Churches here in Chicago.

They need to just get rid of the tax exemption. It's stupid anyway.

[stopbush]

13. Well, it's all fiction. Right up there with "Greedo shot first."

[Turin_C3PO]

16. I'm agnostic basically

but I don't mind religion unless it pushes hatred and intolerance. There's been a lot of leaders who were inspired by their religion to do good such as MLK.

[paleotn]

23. I fall into the....

"I don't know and neither do you" camp. Highly unlikely? I agree, but I also don't believe in zero probabilities or absolutes except for death and taxes. They're rarely defensible logically. If their beliefs don't negatively impact the rest of us, I could care less what they believe. Quakers are an interesting bunch. One of the few Christian groups you can discuss these things without them getting super defensive.

[Gary 50]

31. There used to be two absolutes, death and taxes.

Now there are three. The third, Republicans get away with murder.

[stopbush]

35. Q: do you believe there's an equal chance that Zeus actually exists as the Biblical god?

Asking for a friend.

[paleotn]

37. The probabilities of both appear equally infinitesimally small ....

....given what we do know....but not zero. Only because I can't prove a negative.

[stopbush]

39. Well, if we're going to go down the "can't prove a negative" road, we inevitably

end up circling the sun along with Bertram Russell’s teapot.

The burden of proof is on proving the positive, no?

[paleotn]

40. I agree with you, but......

there's always a but...I keep the door slightly cracked because somewhere, somehow, there may be some kind of intelligence out there. Jefferson and Franklin's absentee creator type dude. Granted, the chances of that are damn near zero, but...they're not zero.

[stopbush]

41. I'd keep the door open if the chance were close to 50/50

which is what religionists would have one believe, but as you say, the chances are less than zero, so why bother? Why bother extending the courtesy to the gods of still-active religions when nobody - and I mean nobody - extends the same courtesy to the gods of dead religions?

Is there a chance tRump will stop being a fucking asshole?

[RealityCheque]

15. Absolutely agree...

There is clearly a huge issue here. From Trumps former press secretary and spewing lies while prominently wearing a crucifix, to Taylor-Green claiming that she is a pro life “Christian”, yet could care less about the lives of the children of Parkland and Sandy Hook.

Over Trumps term, the likes of Franklin Graham continued and still do espouse him as the “chosen one”

And lest we forget the site of “Jesus” banners at the insurrection where a mob killed people and terrorized others.

All of this, and to your point about the crafted weaving of a political statement into a church marquee is not only inappropriate, it is dangerous as it erodes the truth and serves to dilute Christianity.

The religious “right” is not “right” in the context of “right=correct”.

To be a Christian mandates an adherence to the teachings of Jesus Christ, not twisting and manipulating those teachings to a self generated distortion.

[paleotn]

17. It shows a gross lack of faith.

Either God is ultimately in control of world events or he's not. Including elections. And if he is, they have nothing to fear. And he certainly doesn't need the "help" of puny humans. Right leaning, evangelicals routinely want to take control out of God's hands, since they apparently think he isn't doing it right. It's arrogance and blasphemy, pure and simple.

I've had this argument many times with fundigelicals in my own family. I left the fold decades ago, but if they're going to still follow the teachings of Jesus, then, damn it, follow the teachings of Jesus.

[safeinOhio]

29. You sound like a Red Letter Christian.

You can google the Org.
Peace.

[paleotn]

34. Not really.

I was raised Southern Baptist, but now belong to the church of magical events are extremely improbable. What I do ask of Christians is they actually follow their faith. All of it. Not just the parts they like. I'll cut them slack on the Old Testament. That's inherited, and new covenant, dispensations and all that give them an out. But, the New Testament is theirs. Endeavor to follow it or don't call yourselves Christians. Particularly that Sermon on the Mount thingy in Matthew. Modern fundigelicals ignore that completely. Ironic, since Jesus echoed the moral bedrock of countless human civilizations since at least the invention of writing. So much for the grand keepers of morality.

[question everything]

18. However, I think, may be wrong, that Black preachers have often led

the mobilisation of Black voters. Mobilised from the pulpit.

Again, I think..

[infullview]

21. There's a big difference between

speaking for those in power and empowering those who don't have a voice.

[paleotn]

25. Think about reactionaries invested in the status quo.

And also, imposing their beliefs on the rest of us by force if necessary.

Encouraging anyone to exercise their constitutional rights by engaging in civic discourse is one thing. Legislatively enforcing a world view that devalues other humans based on their sexual orientation, race or whatever is quite another.

[Mariana]

27. Moblizing voters is legal and acceptable.

Telling them that God favors a particular candidate or party is illegal, and should result in the immediate loss of tax exempt status, regardless of the color of the preacher.

[infullview]

19. "then pay your taxes like everyone else" Agree wholeheatedly.

Next time they pass the basket you should slip in a note that says you will no longer donate to the church if they continue to dabble in politics.

[jmbar2]

20. Don't expect the government tax policy to fix problems in the church

It's up to progressive and just church members to reform their own houses. Persuasive progressive Christian messages are needed to reform the degraded form of Christianity so common today.

John Pavlovitz is a master at countering toxic Christianity.

Every day my timeline is filled with God and Gun Christians.
The two words are frequently given the same place of adoration.
They are spoken of with kindred reverence.
They are allotted equal fervor.

God. Gun.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/02/01/when-your-god-is-a-gun/


Dr. William Barber is also a powerful voice for reclaiming Christianity from the kooks

[Mariana]

32. But it's so much easier to just shrug and say, "They aren't real Christians."

Actually doing something - good Christians getting out there and protesting the bad churches, for example - well, we just don't see much of that, do we?

[jmbar2]

42. I was surprised to learn awhile back about Christian apologetics

I did not grow up in the church, and most Christian persuasive speech sounds like patterned gobbledygook. I know what they are saying and their intent, but the logic is so foreign to me that it can never be persuasive.

Career and professional Christians go through a lot of training on rhetoric, and persuasion to explain and support their viewpoints, and to try to convert people.

Perhaps it's time to have progressive Christian apologetics. Unfortunately, I am too far outside the church to be a good candidate for it.

[EveDibb]

22. Southern Baptist raised

Southern Baptist raised. Learned a lot of lessons Christians are enemies of my family which includes a transgender member and a gay member. My husband attends a progressive church and I Explained by calling himself a Christian he gives them (fuddies) numbers because whether he likes it or not they are the majority And the back bone of trumps base. He no longer states he is a Christian he says he’s a follower of Jesus.

On the subject of taxing churches the first churches these racists would go after to tax would be predominantly black churches.

[samnsara]

26. im atheist, but i do smile when i see a church marquee with a social message...

..of kindness or inclusion. There's a Presbyterian church near town which always displays messages of encouragement and safety. Good for them.

[safeinOhio]

33. I'm an Atheist and a member

of a UU Church. About half of the members are too. I was even president of the Board. Our church has a rainbow and BLM sign in front.

[msongs]

38. fear inducing threats on the church msg board lol. typical of the group nt