Is Tom Brady the GOAT?

[Nocturnowl]

No, don't be silly! He's the GOD!!!

[left-of-center2012]

1. Uh ...

No.

[Irish_Dem]

2. I thought they were saying he is an old goat.

[OAITW r.2.0]

5. This Pat fan sezs...yes, he is the goat.

Up to you to pitch someone better.

[Irish_Dem]

10. I have no idea about pro ball.

I only watch college football.

I just found out today who was playing in the SB.
Watching with a friend who wanted company, and I just heard them say what's his name was a goat.
I really thought they meant as in Old Goat.

That's all I know.

[OAITW r.2.0]

12. You Live....and You Learn.

Hopefully.

[Irish_Dem]

15. Or maybe not. :(

I am pathetic I know.

At least I learned what a goat is.

[dawg day]

18. This Colts fan says... Yeah. Reluctantly.

It was a great decade and a half for QBs, and being the one who won 7 Super Bowls against all the rest... yeah. I loathe the guy and his puritannical diet and Trump-leaning, but yeah. Greatest ever.

[OAITW r.2.0]

23. It must suck to say this....

but you can't bullshit yourself. Tom Brady is the best NFL QB of all time. Ask Patrick.

[rockfordfile]

42. Nope. I would put him in the top 15

Not with the rules like they have been. He wouldn't survive years back.

[Rustyeye77]

3. Why does everyone hate Tom Brady .?

[maryellen99]

4. Because he's a MAGAt nt

Plus he took PPP money.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. Ugh. He took PPP money too? Figures. nt

[Nevilledog]

35. And he's a maskhole

Link to tweet

[smirkymonkey]

44. He took PPP money?

Now I hate him even more. And I'm a Bostonian. Not huge sports fan, but I've never liked the guy.

[calguy]

8. It's only natural for people to dislike perennial winners

Although I had no problem at all when my 49ers dominated the1980's. But that was different. That was "my" team.

[Mattgoetznolovefromm]

16. Nope. As above, because he's a MAGAT

[OAITW r.2.0]

14. Because, he wins too much.

[bigtree]

55. no, it's because he's a right wing asshole.

...it's well-known.

But he can throw a football? How quaint.

Link to tweet

[uponit7771]

57. ... or cause humans don't like people who publicly enable racist and admitted sexual predators? tia

[JimGinPA]

6. With An Asterisk

His team(s) cheated in at least two superbowls that I know of.


Welcome back by the way!

[LenaBaby61]

48. His team(s) cheated in at least two Superbowl's that I know of.

No.

I'm giving him props for his longevity, and I have to admit that he's a very good QB, but IMHO, he is not the greatest QB or athlete ever. Hell no.

We know about deflate-gate and spy-gate, and way the rules were bent for the NE Pats. I HATE cheaters, and some of those NE Patriot teams got away with a lot of 'rule-bending' to say the least. Who knows what other rules they were allowed to bend? 🤔

Secondly, the league changed the rules to the point of where a QB couldn't be hit helmet to helmet by a defensive linesman (Due to concussions/CTE issues which the higher-ups in the NFL knew about years ago. How horrible and shameful). I remember Montana, Steve Young, Elway and Jim McMahon (Who now has dementia-like symptoms. His wife said that sometimes he can't remember that he played football) and other QB's getting hit viciously helmet to helmet by many a huge, fast, hard-charging defensive linesman (And there's no way Deacon Jones would be allowed to head-slap Brady or any QB like he did back in his day). And finally, let's not forget the huge role 'modern' free agency's played the last 20 years or so in sports, because many an 'elite' athlete who'd usually stay with one team/organization, was given the latitude to leave his team like a journeymen/hired gun, to pursue money and a possible championship in whatever sport. Yes, you were left with good teams, but it was difficult to build dynasties/consistency around those teams because the 'star' athlete(s) left. Then after a time, other players began to leave that same team which left them a hot mess or mere contenders with no real chance to win a title/championship. NOT many owners are willing to tear up their pay structure to accommodate one athlete. I'm not saying that modern free agency is the worst thing to ever happen, but it IS what it IS, and it does what it does as it relates to sports. It's nothing like what Curt Flood fought and won during his days of free agency.

Yes, Brady is one of the BEST QB's ever, and he is a freak of nature--being able to play that well--at 43 years of age, but IMHO, he's not the greatest QB or athlete ever due to him winning 7 Superbowl's, and especially given the fact that much had changed to help him and the team he was with to WIN those Superbowl's. And let's not forget deflate-gate.

See, I didn't even have to go after Brady's greedy, soulless politics, nor mention all that PPE money he got and KEPT when other more deserving people really needed it, nor after the questionable refereeing the Pats/he benefited from over the years, nor after his slimy-ass, tRump-loving owner Robert Kraft which is another whole story all together

[Blue_true]

7. In my view.

The argument of who is the GOAT of all professional sports come down to Brady, Gretzky, Jordan and Bill Russell.

[Mattgoetznolovefromm]

17. Chamberlain, not Russell

Though Russell is a better human being.

[Blue_true]

19. Russell won far more titles.

The GOAT has to win titles.

[krawhitham]

68. Gretzky has 4 Stanley Cup wins, Henri Richard has 11

[exboyfil]

22. The thing about the other three

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2021, 01:05 AM - Edit history (2)

is that they essentially won all of their championships with pretty much the same team. In many cases they had teammates with as many or nearly as many championships as them.

Brady has really won 7 championships over 21 years with three different teams (the 2000s Patriots, the 2010s Patriots) and the Bucs. He has won more championships that anyone except Russell and his teammates or Berra and his teammates (Berra has 10 and Russell has 11).

I would throw Ruth into the mix as well. He won seven World Series with two different teams at two different positions (pitcher for the Red Sox when he won three and four with the Yankees when he played outfield).

[Blue_true]

26. Thanks for the history lesson.

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2021, 06:22 PM - Edit history (2)

I completely forgot about Yogi Berra and Babe Ruth.

I saw Brady, Gretzky and Jordan in real time. I only knew about the legend of Russell, he was done playing when I first paid attention to sports.

I remember nothing about Berra, only talk about how he talked, he was already old at that point. I believe that I read that he managed the Yankees at one point, I only remember Billy Martin and forward (I was in high school when Martin managed the team).

[rsdsharp]

28. It's Berra. Lawrence Peter Berra. Two Rs.

Sorry, but he was kind of a hero of mine.

[exboyfil]

45. Sorry no disrespect intended

[Blue_true]

63. No issue, I corrected my spelling. I don't remember much about him other than

he was an old man who said things in a funny way.

But yeah, 10 WS titles is almost god status for a professional baseball player, you are right to adore him.

[rsdsharp]

65. He was at the end of it when I was a kid, and mostly

played left field rather than catcher. But in his prime he was a terror at the plate, and a great defensive catcher. He was MVP 3 times in the 50s.

Yankees manager Casey Stengel was once asked the secret to his success as Yankees manager, and he said he made sure he never played a game without “his man.”. His man was Yogi Berra.

[brush]

34. Just a quick note. It's Berra...two "r".

[Blue_true]

64. I corrected, thanks. nt

[dawg day]

53. Ruth was an extremely good pitcher

3-0 in the World Series. 14th in the post-1900 era in career ERA.

Being great at two positions makes him particularly impressive.

[Poiuyt]

24. I'd put Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ahead of Russell

Though Bill Russell was a great defensive player.

[Blue_true]

27. I ranked based upon titles, Russell had lots of titles.

Kareem was an offensive force, but Russell specialized in shutting such players down. I saw Kareem play on tv, but only saw stills of Russell.

[exboyfil]

30. And Jabbar won championships with two different teams

Which I think is also important in considering the best team champion.

In Russell's defense he was also a player coach for two of those championships.

[brush]

36. That's right. Kareem won with two teams too. He often gets overlooked.

And Lebron has won with three teams and is still playing. No one has done that but him.

And btw, Robert Horry has 7 rings also with two teams—the Rockets and the Lakers.

[Blue_true]

67. I can overlook Robert Horry. He was a good complimentary player,

but he was not “The Man”. Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Jabbar were “The Man”. I would put LeBron in the GOAT category if he gets one more title, he is a generational great and one of the greatest of all time, but he doesn’t measure up to Bill Russell, IMO.

[brush]

71. I only mentioned Horry because his seven rings matches Brady's.

I looked it up, and I should've known, several of the players from the old Yankee dynasties have seven or more. Ruth 7, Gehrig 8 Dickey 8, Damaggio 9, Berra 10 and I'll stop there because I could go on. So we need to stop making a huge deal about Brady's number of rings unless we're just talking about more recent players. He is the GOAT of pro football though.

And I believe Russell with 10, and several of those Celtic teammates of his had at least 7. I respect Russell and give him his due, but IMO Jordan is the GOAT in basketball, with Kareem and Koby next and Labron trying to catch them.

[Celerity]

33. Pele, Maradona, maybe Messi in that discussion as well. Football (real football, ie soccer) is

the biggest sport on the planet by far.

Now if you said American pro sports, fine.

Jordan for me then.

Cheers

[lpbk2713]

39. Ted Williams should be in that group.

The Korean War took him away from the game at the high point of his career.

[GulfCoast66]

46. Ted Williams was a total dick. That said he was the worlds best at 3 extremely difficult things.

Hitting a ball thrown by a major league pitcher. He might have been the best ever.

Flying a fighter plane. The people he served with thought he was the best. And he actually served 3 years during WW11 which would have been his most productive years. Without the military service he surly would have surpassed Ruth’s home run record. Steroid clean, of course.

Fly fishing. Which few know about.

Read Lords of the Fly. It is about fly fishing in the area of the state i fish. Ted Williams casting ability is legend among salt water fly anglers.

He had better than 20/15 vision and incredible reflexes and hand eye coordination. And granted, nerves of steel. He was a brave man.

Too bad it was wasted on a real prick of a man.

[lpbk2713]

49. Very true. He had no personality.

Williams and Trump would have been the best of friends.

[rsdsharp]

70. I beg to differ. Not long before his death I saw him at

Bob Feller’s museum in Iowa. He was recovering from a stroke and his eyesight was not good. As a result the waiting fans were told he wouldn’t sign baseballs. When Feller drove up in his Jag, Williams got out of the car and a little girl ran up to him with a baseball. He took the ball and boomed, “YOU WANT ME TO SIGN THAT, HONEY?” as he signed it.

I wanted him to sign my copy of The Science of Hitting. As we waited in line as Feller and Williams were signing, I asked his son John Henry if he thought his father would or could sign it. He laughed and said “Ask him. Those two old guys are running the show.” Williams graciously consented to sign the book, and I opened it to the correct page and tried to flatten it for him. After a couple of tries, he looked up and said “I’ll sign if you’ll get out of the way, dear!”. (I’m a very large man.)

No personality? He was bigger than life. As we waited for Feller and Williams to arrive a guy said, “It’s like waiting for God.” He could be prickly, as could Feller, but he was one of a kind.

[LenaBaby61]

51. "Ted Williams was a total dick."

One of my late friends used to go see him at Fenway as a little boy, and he said that he saw him spit in the direction of the fans going up to the on-deck circle (This friend said his parents were able to get the family seats up close), or when they tried to speak to him leaning on the fence, even in kind/enduring ways, he said that Williams used to curse the fans out just because. IF my friend was telling the truth, and I don't think he was lying, yikes at Williams. Needless to say, my friend never liked nor respected the guy and turned into a Yankee fan he said just so he could boo and root against him every chance he said he got.

Have you ever read about what happened post Williams death? My friend said he thought to himself "Well, what went around came back around to that nasty SOB."

Crazy stuff, Williams post death ....

[OAITW r.2.0]

60. A couple of yeaars ago, there was a display at Fenway Park of a letter Ted wrote to L.L.Bean....

he was interested in buying Bean's company because he liked the fly fishing gear Bean was selling.

[rockfordfile]

40. No don't put Brady near Jordan. Jordan could play in any decade in his sport

It's not even close.

[nightwing1240]

9. Yes, he is the GOAT

But, he is still quite vile when it comes to his political beliefs.

The previous GOAT's of my lifetime?

Jimmy Brown and Super Joe Montana

[CentralMass]

52. What do you know about his political beliefs ?

[nightwing1240]

54. He's a Drumpf supporter

I dont believe I need to add more

[ADK]

59. It's not so clear, and certainly more nuanced than you suggest.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/tom-brady-donald-trump-friendship/1o38nm6cqt81213w88q0ca2vtx

[MyNameGoesHere]

11. Good Old Asslicking Trumper? Yes he is.

[Iggo]

13. Maybe. Too bad he's a cheater.

[Jerry2144]

21. No

[erpowers]

25. Yes

Yes, he is the G.O.A.T. He has 7 NFL championships. As far as I know that is more than any other player/quarterback. Also, he has more championships than some of the best teams.

[exboyfil]

31. He has won more Superbowls than any other team

Next closest players with Super Bowl wins is Charles Haley with five.

[rockfordfile]

41. Nope

[flying rabbit]

29. Yep.

For now.

[Lucinda]

32. H's a punk who didnt bother to wear a mask into the facility today

[rockfordfile]

37. No. Not even close

I would put him in the top 15. He wouldn't last in the past with more evened out rules.

Maybe Wilson and Rodgers could play in those years.

You can tell there are brady fans on here because all of the crying when called out about the refs being corrupt in the first half of the SB and green Bay game. A more serious problem is that they make excuses for Brady being just like trumptrash.

[LenaBaby61]

50. "A more serious problem is that they make excuses for Brady .....

being just like trump trash."

Better known by it's more famous name: Brady's WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE.

Need I say the name Colin Kaepernick to ring a bell? He gets none of those white male privileges Brady gets of course, and Kaepernik only chose to kneel politely for a cause which he was damn right about for the broader good of humanity and LIFE.

[Yavin4]

38. Yes, of the modern football era.

But not of all time. Before the modern era, QBs got hit and hit hard. Today, QBs are protected.

[Tree-Hugger]

43. No.

He is not.

[BGBD]

47. I don't think you can compare era in football.

Given how much the game has changed since guys like Marino and Montana were playing, and especially the guys who played even before that.

In those days hitting QBs wasn't just legal, it was a point of the game. Back then you could get away with hitting QBs well after they released the ball, now you basically can't hit them with it in their hands. You could also rough up WRs downfield, and especially over the middle. They allowed more hand fighting, not jamming, and more contact. They also allowed you to pop WRs as they caught the ball and there were not defenseless player rules.

My point is it's a lot easier to play QB now than it was back then and you are much more protected, so careers are longer than ever before.

We wouldn't be talking about Brady right now if he's played in an era when he would have had to retire 5, 8, or 10 years ago because he wouldn't take the punishment anymore.

So, I think he's in the conversation, but I don't think it's absolutely clear.

If we were picking teams, my first pick probably wouldn't be Brady.

[Turin_C3PO]

56. Football?

Probably. But overall I’d say Michael Jordan tops my list.

[uponit7771]

58. Only if the refs give him a 1 to 10 penalty ratio ... if you can count that

[RANDYWILDMAN]

61. No, but for his Era he is, you can't hit a QB now

Per the Tom Brady Rules.

When Joe Montana had his back broken, the Game just continued on like nothing happened, if that happened to Brady the NFL would make a new rule, you can't hit Tom brady.

[egduj]

62. The greatest "up until this time" would be more accurate.

Until the NFL (or professional sports in general) is no longer around in some dystopian future, how can one know for sure?

[Mossfern]

66. What does this mean?

Please explain "the goat."

[DIVINEprividence]

69. I am a Brady hater but I have to give it to him

He is the GOAT. He earned it.