Donald McNeil, Science Reporter Ousted from NYT for

[janterry]

would one call this cancel culture? Wokeness to the extreme?

Does anyone have other information?

Here's what happened (this is from his apology)

On a 2019 New York Times trip to Peru for high school students, I was asked at dinner by a student whether I thought a classmate of hers should have been suspended for a video she had made as a 12-year-old in which she used a racial slur.

To understand what was in the video, I asked if she had called someone else the slur or whether she was rapping or quoting a book title. In asking the question, I used the slur itself.

I should not have done that. Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended.

I now realize that it cannot. It is deeply offensive and hurtful. The fact that I even thought I could defend it itself showed extraordinarily bad judgement. For that I apologize. (it goes on)

The pressure was internal:

That response was strongly criticized in a letter by more than 150 New York Times staffers who said that despite its “seeming commitment to diversity and inclusion … we have given a prominent platform – a critical beat covering a pandemic disproportionately affecting people of color – to someone who chose to use language that is offensive and unacceptable by any newsroom’s standards”.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-new-york-times-journalists-leave-paper-over-different-controversies/ar-BB1drRsY?%253Bocid=u146dhp+
From NYT editors:
the Times issued a statement saying, “We found he had used bad judgment by repeating a racist slur in the context of a conversation about racist language."

For those wondering about cancel culture, if this IS the story (please enlighten me if I've missed something) - then this is worse.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. I'd call it consequences for racist actions. Pretty simple.

[janterry]

2. action?

he repeated a word that the student raised. He was thinking through an issue.

This is dangerous and illiberal.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. According to participants on the trip, he also made other racist and sexist comments, and was

disrespectful of traditional rituals participants were observing.

[janterry]

7. I can't find more details

only allusions to things that might have been said (or suggested).

I wish I knew more, then I could make a good appraisal.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I do not believe using the word, one time, in this context, makes him a racist.

[janterry]

4. He started at the NYT as a copywriter in 1976

n/t

[hunter]

6. It was more than that...

Two students specifically alleged that the science reporter used the "n-word" and suggested he did not believe in the concept of white privilege; three other participants alleged that McNeil made racist comments and used stereotypes about Black teenagers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/star-new-york-times-reporter-donald-mcneil-accused-of-using-n-word-making-other-racist-comments

We've all met people like that.

[janterry]

8. I can't find details either

just that (what you quote).

So, I can't make a judgement.

[irisblue]

9. I have heard him on The Daily as well as Fresh Air speaking about Corona and how it spread

McNeil is 67, way past the age to realize a Grandpa aged white man should not be using the N word to high school students in 2019.

He clearly knows his science, but he didn't know the limits of acceptable conversation with minors as an adult man.

150 coworkers complained to management about you and your behaviors to management, something else is going on.

[janterry]

11. Perhaps

I don't think the word - in the context he used it - is a problem. Would I do it? No. But in this context it wasn't racist.

I have no idea what else happened. Clearly, it's all the NYT was willing to cite. (There seem to be suggestions of other offenses).

So, I'm not willing to make a judgment beyond the word - and, repeating it in THIS context? As a way of understanding?

I'd be open to hearing about the other -suggested- allegations, though.

[Dustlawyer]

10. The word should not be used by anyone.

Black people have been fighting for equality for as long as this country has existed. Yet, the “N” word is used in many contexts by black people such as a term of endearment “my n...” or a slur, but not at all by a white person. It is the only word I know of with this type of unwritten rules.

While I believe it should never be used by anyone, in cases like this context and intent matter. I do not believe it justifies the reporter losing their job. It was poor judgement on this reporter’s part but the punishment of termination is excessive. We get carried away with cancel culture being over-used.

My beliefs come mainly from numerous and long conversations with my black father-in-law and my wife. My father-in-law was an amazing man. He was a career Marine who served in Korea and Vietnam. He has suffered through such racism in his life as to not be believed. I have been appalled at what people of my race (white) have done to him and his family just because of the color of their skin. That word was to NEVER be used in his house no matter the context. The word needs to be dropped from usage in any context. He felt that equality must be true and without any privilege, including the privilege of black people being the only ones to be able to say it. I agree.

Yet this reporter is unemployed with a huge stigma to their name, though their intent was not to be derogatory. Context matters. The N word is such a trigger word it is a shock to hear a white person say it in any context, thus the poor judgement in using it at all. I guess what I am saying is two things, that this story is one example of why the word should be dropped from our vernacular and how cancel culture has gotten out of hand. They are not mutually exclusive, using the N word is a moral crime in my book, but crimes have different degrees and different punishments. I do not believe the punishment fit the crime.

[janterry]

13. For sure, I'd not use it

Though I've worked in places where I heard it all the time (mostly it was a form of affection). I've worked in the prisons, so my guys would often say it to each other. I'm sure it was used derogatorily too - but not in front of me (I was in the programs department, so that would have been a big deal).

I do think this might be an example of cancel culture.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. "I do think this might be an example of cancel culture."

What's the difference between an employer listening to complaints about an employee and deciding it doesn't want that employee to be part of its brand anymore, and "cancel culture"?

[irisblue]

19. Consequences are different from cancel culture IMO.

the social ostracizing he is living through because of his own actions to me is a consequence.

You mention your daughter, when as a child she misbehaved, you corrected her actions and if she repeated the behavior she lived through her consequences.

McNeil made choices, he chose poorly. He is living through his consequences.

[janterry]

21. I don't believe that the consequences fit the action

But it's hard to say. The NYT cited only one thing. That use of the word, in that context, is not problematic (imo). Should he have done it? Perhaps not. But I would not fire someone for using it in a discussion.

Did he say other things? Again, we don't know. Teens are given to hyperbole. Did he say he doesn't agree with the theories behind white privilege?

I don't either, entirely. I have a nuanced viewpoint. I think my graduate school class in white privilege was interesting. I thought it helpful in some ways. But it doesn't speak to class (only race). I find that problematic. So, if a group of teens asked me, I might point out the problems with the theory. I might say it doesn't translate well to the workplace either (can you have these seminars at a GM factory? No, I don't think so. Also, remember the professor who objected to having to fill out the ways he was privileged - and have it go in his file? This was supposed to be a yearly exercise for ALL faculty. I would object to that, too).

So, if I said, yes, there is a thing as white privilege but I'm not on board with how it's used today and I look forward to ways that this theory will evolve and change......That could be watered down to: No.

I don't subscribe to it 100%.

And that nuance could 'do me in' too. Just saying........

So, I don't know. we only have the one thing to go on. And I would not wish to fire anyone for that ONE thing. And if it was more than that - and perhaps involved nuance - well. That's what I worry about.

[Chainfire]

12. Not a defense for the accused, but

I do not believe in "bad" words. In a way it is like "bad books." The sin is in the context. Orwell warned us about the destruction of bad words as Bradbury warned us about the destruction of "bad books."

[janterry]

14. I worry too

My daughter is an exceptionally polite (and very left leaning, btw) young woman. But when she started her college essays - she wrote that before she says anything - she evaluates her words and whether they will harm anyone. I don't mean big harms (she's not weighing out insensitive horrible remarks. She'd never do that. Not even close). But she is so super sensitive to the needs of others, she often does not share any ideas.

She's scared.

[SlogginThroughIt]

17. I don't even like substituting the phrase "Nword" for the word.

When discussing the word, the actual word should be used. But we don’t because if we do we get banned or turned into a racist for discussing the word even though every time the phrase “N word” is used everyone now says it in their heads or knows exactly what we mean when we say it. It is beyond stupid and in my opinion lowers the level of discussion. (edited in: We also don’t because we don’t want to inflict pain on someone who may not understand the context)

There is a great video (that I cannot seem to find) of a black college aged woman giving a talk about it and does a good job of breaking down how this lets the word keep its teeth. I would never use the word as the insult that it is. But I do find it rather stupid that when talking about it we insert a substitute that means the same as what it is.

[Chainfire]

18. You are applying logic to an illogical situation. Shame....

How do you logically ban any use of a word by non-blacks, when it is in common usage within the culture it is damning? Context is everything. I agree that using the term N-word, is absurd. There are bad people, not bad words.

[SlogginThroughIt]

20. I agree.

[janterry]

23. Here's what the other employees said

the position of the 150 Times employees whose letter to Sulzberger clearly stated that McNeil's intent was "irrelevant;" that what mattered was "how an act makes the victims feel."

That's just an impossible yardstick. Very frightening. (and these are journalists at the newspaper 'of record' saying this.

[KentuckyWoman]

16. People rarely fess up.

I had to let some go for drunk at work. For a whole year plus .... Offered to pay for rehab, counseling etc. It just got worse to the point she had vodka in her water bottle and stone drunk on the job.

She told a lawyer she got fired for using mouthwash at work after lunch, which she regretted since it cam be a trigger for alcoholics.

I get the sense this reporter needs a good hard look in his mirror.

[janterry]

22. Here's another perspective

https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-times-succumbed-another-mob-journalism-unrecognizable-opinion-1567367