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Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:39 PM

Forget Impeachment--Donald Trump Should Be Under Arrest

https://www.thedailybeast.com/forget-impeachment-donald-trump-should-be-under-arrest?ref=home


Forget Impeachment—Donald Trump Should Be Under Arrest
WHAT’S TAKING SO LONG?
The Senate needs to go about its obviously constitutional business. But I sure hope prosecutors in New York and Washington are going about theirs, too.
Dean Obeidallah
Updated Feb. 08, 2021 9:31AM ET / Published Feb. 07, 2021 8:40PM ET

snip//

I encourage people to read the “Statement of Facts” portion of the House impeachment managers’ brief filed Tuesday that lays out more than just the grounds to convict Trump in the impeachment trial—it makes a compelling case to charge Trump with at least insurrection. While the House managers, headed by Rep. Jamie Raskin, do not cite the federal statute for this felony given that the impeachment trial is not criminal, they lay out the roadmap for prosecutors to build a case.

One of the most important points they make is that Trump’s misconduct is not solely about the words of his January 6 speech before the attack. Instead, they argue in powerful detail that Trump laid the groundwork for the insurrection over a period of months beginning with his repeated comments during the campaign that “the only way we’re going to lose this election is if this election is rigged.” Trump was priming his supporters to be on board with this concept if he lost the election.

From there, the House managers highlight Trump’s post-election lies about the election being “stolen” through his call for his most rabid supporters to gather in Washington, D.C.—not on any random day, but on the very day federal law mandated Congress meet to certify the election results.

The House managers’ brief leaves you with the sense that Trump radicalized some in his base —like ISIS does--with a non-stop drumbeat of lies and fiery rhetoric intended to incite them to the doorstep of violence. And finally, on Jan. 6, Trump pushed them through that door, activating them to use force to stop the certification.

snip//

The impeachment trial this week is step one—but even if Trump is convicted, accountability for Trump’s crimes cannot simply be disqualifying him from running from office again. Accountability can only come if Trump is criminally charged and fully prosecuted. That’s the best hope we have at preventing Trump or any future president from engaging in the same dangerous and illegal conduct. In fact, today would be a great day to arrest Trump.

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Forget Impeachment--Donald Trump Should Be Under Arrest (Original post)
babylonsister Feb 8 OP
BSdetect Feb 8 #1
panader0 Feb 8 #2
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #16
crickets Feb 8 #18
2naSalit Feb 8 #27
Evolve Dammit Feb 8 #39
KarenS Feb 8 #3
sboatcar Feb 8 #4
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #15
sboatcar Feb 8 #17
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #22
Tommymac Feb 8 #46
OLDMDDEM Feb 8 #5
berksdem Feb 8 #6
PuppyBismark Feb 8 #7
fwvinson Feb 8 #41
aggiesal Feb 8 #49
former9thward Feb 8 #51
spooky3 Feb 9 #55
former9thward Feb 9 #58
aggiesal Feb 9 #56
Fiendish Thingy Feb 8 #8
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #10
Fiendish Thingy Feb 8 #14
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #23
Demsrule86 Feb 8 #9
pandr32 Feb 8 #11
lindysalsagal Feb 8 #12
librechik Feb 8 #13
lettucebe Feb 8 #19
BarbD Feb 8 #20
world wide wally Feb 8 #21
Stuart G Feb 8 #24
electric_blue68 Feb 8 #28
Stuart G Feb 8 #30
former9thward Feb 8 #53
CaptainTruth Feb 8 #25
Stuart G Feb 8 #31
2naSalit Feb 8 #32
Lock him up. Feb 8 #37
Jetheels Feb 8 #26
lagomorph777 Feb 8 #29
2naSalit Feb 8 #33
lagomorph777 Feb 8 #34
2naSalit Feb 8 #35
OneBlueSky Feb 8 #36
calimary Feb 8 #38
SayItLoud Feb 8 #40
BobTheSubgenius Feb 8 #42
soldierant Feb 8 #43
bringthePaine Feb 8 #44
bucolic_frolic Feb 8 #45
Rebl2 Feb 8 #47
Lunabell Feb 8 #48
Blue Owl Feb 8 #50
hughee99 Feb 8 #52
triron Feb 9 #54
hughee99 Feb 9 #57
tclambert Feb 9 #59

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:41 PM

1. That is definitely essential. He must be dealt with in court.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:42 PM

2. I find it quite ironic that the first lawmaker to mention criminal charges is Liz Cheney.

She is giving Democrats a lot of cover on this. Do it!

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Response to panader0 (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:17 PM

16. She is indeed. A bipartisan support of prosecution would hurt the GOP as they try to

claim that it is a political prosecution.

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Response to panader0 (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:22 PM

18. True.

I can't stand Liz Cheney, but her "we need hearings and lots of them" message is certainly resonating with me. More like this, please.

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Response to crickets (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:06 PM

27. I agree.

She's not that popular in her neck of the woods and I was surprised to see her win at all. But in this instance, she is at least correct. She's still not our BF but she does have a sense of reason, and I'll take it, even from her.

I was surprised to see her quote but glad for her candor and strength to stand up against the mob.


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Response to crickets (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:51 PM

39. Agree. And SDNY needs to move as well.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:42 PM

3. I agree with this and it cannot come soon enough. n/t

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:43 PM

4. Would it be double jeopardy for him to be charged with these crimes after his trial?

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Response to sboatcar (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:16 PM

15. No, Impeachment is political-not criminal. He could still be tried in court and should be.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:19 PM

17. Excellent, thanks for clearing that up

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Response to sboatcar (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:49 PM

22. I wasn't sure and asked someone here and then even looked it up...it is a legitimate concern.

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Response to sboatcar (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:37 PM

46. The Impeachment Trial is NOT a Criminal Trial.

The House Impeachment is the political version of a Criminal Grand Jury Indictment.

The Senate Impeachment Trial is the political version of a Criminal Trial.

Some of the legal and political 'terms' look the same, the proceedings may look similar in some regards (testifying under oath for example - lie to the Senate and they can bring legal perjury charges) but each has it's own set of rules.

An Impeachment Conviction is NOT a Criminal Conviction. No double jeopardy involved.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:45 PM

5. I agree with you nt.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 02:51 PM

6. LOCK. HIM. UP!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:10 PM

7. You got that right

I can wait until the impeachment trial is over as it will help the public understand the arrest. Then the new attorney general and the state attorneys general can come public with the investigations and indictments. I think the Democrats are laying low until that time. No need to poke the bear this soon.

They certainly have an open and shut case in the matter of the payments to the two porn stars including the checks signed by him. Ask Michael Cohen. There are lots of federal charges to come.

I suspect he has written himself a pardon, but that will be decided by the courts and most knowledgeable lawyers have indicated it will not stand.

So, stock up on the popcorn, should be interesting.

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Response to PuppyBismark (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:56 PM

41. Can't pardon himself, or anybody, now. Pres. Bidden would have to do that.

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Response to fwvinson (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 08:21 PM

49. Pendejo45 signed the double-secret probation pardons before he left office for ...

his family and himself.

He will not produce them until needed.

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Response to aggiesal (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 11:48 PM

51. Nonsense.

There are no "secret pardons". The only people saying that are those who predicted Trump would pardon himself and others. When he did not do that now they are claiming they are "secret".

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Response to former9thward (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 12:01 AM

55. Are you saying that you don't believe pardons have been granted that have not been disclosed?

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 10:32 AM

58. There was nothing secret about the Trump White House

Every single day for four years things were posted on DU from "WH sources" about what Trump was doing. For those who think pardons can be secret and pulled out of a hat when needed, please show where that has happened in the last 230 years.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 12:28 AM

56. You don't seem to get a joke, when it is given. ...

Double-Secret Probation is from the movie "Animal House".

And there is no such thing as a double secret probation pardon.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:11 PM

8. Criminal prosecution is much more important than the senate trial. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:13 PM

10. He belongs behind bars...how are you!

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:15 PM

14. Fine thanks- looking forward to a DJT prosecution! Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:52 PM

23. I am too. Stay safe Fiendish Thingy

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:11 PM

9. This may be why certain witnesses are not called...looks like Trump met with the leaders of

the insurrection on January 5th in the White House.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:13 PM

11. I completely agree

Once upon a time these things were dealt with more harshly.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:13 PM

12. YEP. We all watched it. We are all prime witnesses.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:15 PM

13. I heartily agree. Bastards misrepresenting Traitor !'s.s heinous crime as mere politics

Is part of the treachery.

But DOJ is not obeying Biden. We have a leadership problem There.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:23 PM

19. Give it time. I'm sure he'll be charged criminally, sooner or later

He cannot stop committing crimes so even if the ones we know about don't bear fruit, give it time.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:47 PM

20. Seems to me that someone who plotted, encouraged and staged a coup

should be liable for sedition charges.

If this isn't a crime against the United States, what is?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:48 PM

21. I couldn't agree more

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:53 PM

24. New York State Attorney General Letitia James will prosecute to the fullest..... AND...

Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. WILL GET TRUMP....

Vance Jr. has bee District Attorney of Manhattan for 10 years.
He and Letitia James will get Donald Trump....Trump will go down.

and as he goes down..........Donald Trump will...................

GO AROUND AND AROUND....

Trump doesn't have a clue, says Stu..

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:06 PM

28. AG James, yes. But I thought I heard that Vance...

may be wavering... 🙄

I hope I read that wrong !

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:09 PM

30. .I honestly don't know..We will all see.

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 11:50 PM

53. So why haven't they?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 03:59 PM

25. "I want to see him in prison." Nancy Pelosi June 2019

I will never forget that quote because I DO TOO NANCY!

Nancy's statement makes me confident that she will turn over EVERYTHING the House has on Trump to prosecutors.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:13 PM

31. If Nancy Pelosi said that, she will do everything to make prison happen for Donald Trump!!!

This isn't Watergate, this is "Sedition and Insurrection..!!!!!!!!

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:13 PM

32. Yup!

I feel that the Senate trial is necessary in that it will expose the depth of organization in attempting to kill democracy which will place all evidence in the public access category which will provide evidence for the criminal trials to follow including the biggest RICO case in history along with other crimes. The GJs need time to get their evidence and I expect that, as I predicted back in 2018, a good third of Congress will be implicated. The Senate trial is necessary to expose the enablers and methodology, and to ban him from running for office ever again.

I expect a lot of litigation for a while.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:43 PM

37. I hope the DOJ will have access to and will review all the GJ material in the Mueller probe.

TEN obvious Obstruction of Justice violations cannot go unpunished forever.

Also all the obstructions of Congress relative to illegal orders to not comply with lawfully issued subpoenas!

If he gets a pass, no other POTUS will ever comply with the Constitutional rules of the three branches of goverment.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:04 PM

26. I wanted to read this article but members only. Thanks for snippet.

Anyway, I think the groundwork was being paved years ago, with trumps popularization of birtherism and his assault on facts, science, truth.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:07 PM

29. Before and during the insurrection, he ordered the National Guard to stay away.

That is the most damning evidence of all.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:15 PM

33. That and the strategy meeting the night before. ...nt

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:17 PM

34. Yup - I wonder if there's any way to learn what happened there.

Maybe arrest a couple of them and put the squeeze on.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:19 PM

35. I can't help it, but...

Oh lordy, I hope there's tapes!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:19 PM

36. Ummmm . . . Yes and No . . .

Yes, he should be under arrest . . . on more counts than I can enumerate on fingers and toes . . .

But . . . . . .

No, we shouldn't forget impeachment . . . he has to be held accountable for January 6 . . . and everything that led up to it . . .

JMHO, of course . . .

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:45 PM

38. Sure works for me!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:54 PM

40. Sure would be nice to know if tRUMP filed "secret pardons" and for whom. NT

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:00 PM

42. That "pre-priming" of his base with early, early mentions of a rigged election.

It was obvious and outrageous....and no one had the power, or at least influence, to get him to stop and act like a normal person for a few minutes?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:01 PM

43. No criminal conviction and no prison sentence

can reliably prevent him from ever holding public office again.

Convictions can be pardoned and sentences can be commuted. The only reliable deterrent it a Senate vote to bar him from public office, and that can only be done in connection with an impeachment.

if i understand correctly, and if my sources are accurate, that vote can be taken after the vote to convict or not is taken, and it can be taken even if he is not convicted. And it requires only a simple majority.

I think that's worth a wait.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:22 PM

44. gotta bring game as hard as possible on all fronts - make 'em defend the indefensible in

every venue, under relentless pursuit of both civil and criminal justice; mercy cannot be
quartered in any way - the crazies see it only as weakness, therefore they must be shown
only the most severe penalties allowable by law; the law will do its work if we nourish it
with truth and unflagging commitment to the demands of true justice - fair to complainants
and perpetrators, as well as serving the needs of just, democratic society

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:25 PM

45. I believe the evidence will show it is a matter for the courts and would have been

if he weren't President at the time.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:38 PM

47. I agree

I would have thought they would have already charged him by NY prosecutor.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 05:39 PM

48. He definitely has blood on his hands.

If not held criminally liable, the families of those killed during the insurrection can definitely show civil liability. If my love one died after trump's speech that day, I would sue. He needs to pay. Bigtime.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 11:12 PM

50. Now we're talkin'!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2021, 11:48 PM

52. Exactly! Trump isn't in office anymore, if he's broken laws,

He should be tried like a private citizen. Impeachment won’t provide any real accountability, certainly not now, after he’s left office.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #52)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 12:00 AM

54. Imprisonment is almost too good for him. How about sentenced to hard labor.

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Response to triron (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 12:46 AM

57. Either way, he'd still need a real trial. Nt

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2021, 11:43 PM

59. I generally oppose capital punishment, but it would be good for America to hang Trump for treason.

You see the world with Trump in it. Now picture the world without Trump. Which do you prefer?

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