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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe democrats dropped call to have witnesses because of this?! WTF!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-chris-coons-hounded-dems-to-drop-witnesses-because-people-want-to-get-home-for-valentines-dayservermsh
(913 posts)We don't know which other Democrats also put pressure on the Managers.
This was AFTER Schumer told them several times that they could call witnesses if they wished.
triron
(21,981 posts)Absolutely disgusting.
Trueblue Texan
(2,417 posts)elleng
(130,698 posts)Baloney
Malarkey
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)I can't believe it....
Beaverhausen
(24,469 posts)Sadly.
Mr.Bill
(24,228 posts)and it wouldn't have changed the outcome.
Response to triron (Original post)
relayerbob This message was self-deleted by its author.
relayerbob
(6,532 posts)They didn't need witnesses, they needed Senators with spines. Moscow Mitch wasn't going to vote to convict and without his cover ther was no chance of getting more votes. Just wasting time that can be better spent helping the country and prosecuting Trump and his associates. I hope the net catches Graham, Hawley, Cruz, at least
elleng
(130,698 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)
'Last night and this morning, many people demanded that McCarthy be called as a witness to force him to admit that he had the conversation with Trump on January 6 as described by Rep. Herrera Butler. They insisted that this information needed to be put in the record.
This morning, Rep. Raskin paved the way for Herrera Butler to testify. Trump's attorneys freaked out. Now, a few minutes ago, Schumer announced that Herrera-Butler's previous statements would be put into the record. And Trump's attorneys stipulated that he would not object to it going into the record.
This is a big deal. If the point of bringing in Herrera-Butler was to get her statement on record and the point of bringing in McCarthy was to get hm to admit to the conversation, then putting her statement in the record and having Trump, the other person in the conversation, essentially admit that the conversation happened achieves the goal of any testimony. And it does so without a lot of delays, distractions, drama, extraneous defense witnesses and other circus-like shenanigans.
I understand why some people may think this was a cave at first blush. But if you wanted McCarthy to testify to prove that this conversation occurred, Trump admitting that the conversation occurred takes care of that.
Now, if you were looking for some other kind of drama to come out of that, that's another thing. But the purpose most people claimed they wanted from McCarthy's testimony has been satisfied beautifully.'
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215105683
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,570 posts)sensational journalism and gives the pearl-clutchers another excuse for whining about "weak" democrats. There are many good reasons for the decision not to call witnesses, not the least of which are that it would have drawn the trial out for weeks; the witnesses would have been mostly hostile and uncooperative and there was a serious risk that their testimony would have been unhelpful; the Trump team had threatened to call 300 witnesses themselves (and they would have, if they thought it would have made the trial look like a waste of time); it would have given the Trump lawyers an opportunity to further broadcast Trump's lies to the public when cross-examining the prosecution witnesses; and it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference in the outcome. Raskin got exactly what he wanted when he got the stipulation for Herrera's statement to go on the record. The House managers included some of the best lawyers I've ever watched, and I'm damned if I'm going to join the chorus of Monday-morning quarterbacks who have never tried a case and had to make a trial decision on the fly.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Well said, as usual
Pantagruel
(2,580 posts)benld74
(9,901 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)but won't believe what Rep. Raskin plainly to their faces?
It's almost like some people are just grasping at any excuse to trash Democrats ...
Turin_C3PO
(13,893 posts)They would have been exposed to ridiculous cross examination by bad faith Repubs and it wouldnt have changed the outcome anyway.
doc03
(35,292 posts)was unconstitutional was their way out. If it turns out bad for the ones that voted to clear him they can claim they like turtle
thought it was unconstitutional.
calguy
(5,290 posts)I'm glad it was. I did not want to see this dragged out over several more weeks only to get the same result. The managers made a compelling and overwhelming case against trump as it was. Calling witnesses would only lead to diminishing returns at this point. The door is wide open to further investigation and prosecution by Merrick Garland's Justice Department. Congress's role in this is complete. Now Congress can get to more important things like passing President Biden's agenda to solve the problems that plague our nation.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)with the likelihood of dragging out further while the House managers haggled over witnesses?
People - including those who are now throwing fits because no witnesses were called - would be attacking the Democrats for letting this drag out, for losing the attention of the public, allowing the momentum to disappear, for destroying their case, etc.
sweetloukillbot
(10,957 posts)calguy
(5,290 posts)I think I remember Jamie Raskin saying at the press conference that the first witness the defense wanted to call was Nancy Pelosi. In other words, they were looking to turn the trial into a full blown circus.
I'm grateful they ended the trial when they did.
onecaliberal
(32,757 posts)Mitch set up the trial so the republicans could acquit on a process they made up and not the question. Theyre all saying trump did it today. The House managers did the right thing. They presented a damning account of the day in general.
marble falls
(56,974 posts)FelineOverlord
(3,571 posts)elleng
(130,698 posts)we needed more senators with spines.
CNN
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Ari Melber and some people on DU say they should have called witnesses, so they should have called witnesses.
elleng
(130,698 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 13, 2021, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Last night and this morning, many people demanded that McCarthy be called as a witness to force him to admit that he had the conversation with Trump on January 6 as described by Rep. Herrera Butler. They insisted that this information needed to be put in the record.
This morning, Rep. Raskin paved the way for Herrera Butler to testify. Trump's attorneys freaked out. Now, a few minutes ago, Schumer announced that Herrera-Butler's previous statements would be put into the record. And Trump's attorneys stipulated that he would not object to it going into the record.
This is a big deal. If the point of bringing in Herrera-Butler was to get her statement on record and the point of bringing in McCarthy was to get hm to admit to the conversation, then putting her statement in the record and having Trump, the other person in the conversation, essentially admit that the conversation happened achieves the goal of any testimony. And it does so without a lot of delays, distractions, drama, extraneous defense witnesses and other circus-like shenanigans.
I understand why some people may think this was a cave at first blush. But if you wanted McCarthy to testify to prove that this conversation occurred, Trump admitting that the conversation occurred takes care of that.
Now, if you were looking for some other kind of drama to come out of that, that's another thing. But the purpose most people claimed they wanted from McCarthy's testimony has been satisfied beautifully.'
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215105683
orangecrush
(19,382 posts)sfstaxprep
(9,998 posts)The topic of this thread is about witnesses. I'm in the camp that says they wouldn't have made a difference. The game was rigged, with or without them.
But if you are still expecting him to be held accountable, you're getting your hopes up. Don't let me stop you, but I'm not holding my breath he'll EVER be held accountable for a single thing he's done during his miserable life.
coti
(4,612 posts)The reasoning being offered for the move reeked of cognitive dissonance and was inconsistent with the purpose of impeaching Trump to begin with.
Seemed like they were just getting sick of dealing with the issue, wanted it to be over. And they're hoping he gets prosecuted.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Trueblue Texan
(2,417 posts)JI7
(89,237 posts)people want help in their lives .
Democrats made the case and most republicans admitted evidence meant nothing to them.
JI7
(89,237 posts)They think Republicans are honestly misled or not informed and if Democrats just did this or that they would finally see Trump is a bad man.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)a congresswoman they'd never heard of before testify about a phone call she overheard between Trump and McCarthy, they would have risen up and forced the at least 10 more Republican senators to vote for conviction.