There is a racial element to those who go out of their way to denigrate rap music.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It's legitimate to question the promiscuous use of the Nword or the Bword and some high proflle rappers have stated they will stop using them. However, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to the wholesale denigrating of the entire genre as "crap".

There are many genres of music I'm not a fan of but I would never criticize the talent of the artist unless it's Ted Nugent or Kid Rock.

ON EDIT-It's not just disliking it. It's making an ostentatious display of your dislike for it.

[mr_lebowski]

1. I'm sure sometimes/in some people's case, but I don't think 'always'

I mean, my 75yo mom hates metal, but I don't think she has a distaste for pasty, long-haired white dudes.

Conversely there's plenty of bona-fide racists that love and listen to hip-hop. Just like they watch the NBA and NFL.

Just sayin'

[NNadir]

7. I agree. Like your Mom, I hate metal music.

I find pasty, long haired white dudes to be a mixed bag though, and definitely have a distaste for some of them.

Rap music generally doesn't do it for me, although I love R&B and am definitely a jazz lover, particularly Coltrane, Miles Davis, Jack DeJohnette, Eric Dolphy, blah, blah, blah...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. As I said there's a lot of genres I'm not fond of...

But I don't go out of my way to denigrate the artist or the listener.

[catbyte]

2. Yep. I can appreciate the artform and form of expression that it is. I just can't listen to it--

it gives me a pounding headache. But then again, a 65-year-old, retired Ojibwe female isn't exactly the demographic they're trying to reach. My grandparents thought The Who was "just noise," too.

😉

[maxsolomon]

6. My Mom hated it when I started listening to modern Jazz in my 20s.

"It makes me anxious!"

Now I kind of agree with her!

[zaj]

3. Cultural tribalism

Rap is the wrong team

[USALiberal]

4. Nope, some people hate rap, country, classical, metal....

Just like I don’t like action movies.

Racists hate anything to do with black people, but hating rap does not make you a racist.

[Butterflylady]

10. You are right, I am white and to me rap is just

fast talking to underlying sound. But the again I am a classical music freak.

[maxsolomon]

5. There are Country Denigraters, Pop Denigraters, Jazz Denigraters.

As a fan of every one of those Genres, I can tell you that each contains utter shite as well. A lot of it.

The same is true of Rap. Moments of utter genius, moments of utter idiocy. I chalk up my current distaste for facial-tattooed, auto-tuned Soundcloud Rappers to my advanced age, so that tempers my criticism of the talent or value of a Post Malone, for instance.

If you don't like a specific song (i.e. the notorious WAP), then don't listen to it. It wasn't made for you, anyway. It's made for teenagers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I'm an old head

I like Dre, NWA, Eminem, Biggy, JayZ, P E and Tupac et cetera.


I'm listening to WAP for the first time. Maybe it's sex positive feminism. It's not my cup of tea but vivre et laisser vivre.

[maxsolomon]

16. Exactly. I appreciate the provocation, but at 57, it's not for me.

"Epater les Bourgeois" has a long tradition in music, and it keeps evolving. Popular Rap is particularly good at irritating uptight White People, and I salute that. It makes me giggle.

I do appreciate some Shabazz Palaces, but Ishmael Butler's >50!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. WAP didn't do it for me.

WAP didn't do it for me but outside of this thread I'm not going to loudly proclaim my dislike for it. I know the song made Ben Shapiro all aflutter. I won't go further in this thread but it shows an amazing unawareness of physiology.

[eShirl]

24. Disco Denigrators

disco effectively died overnight

[mopinko]

41. homophobia was a big part of the disco hate.

not everyone, but a similar paradigm was at work there.
incels hated it before the word was a thing. my ex hated it. when he met me, in 1980, he was a 21 yo virgin. he also could.not.dance. tbh, neither could i, but i did it and i loved it.
that same jealousy was at the root of a lot of it.

[maxsolomon]

54. that was mentioned in the HBO Bee Gees doc

hadn't occurred to me.

[luvs2sing]

11. Rap started becoming prevalent on the radio when I was about 23.

Other than “Rapper’s Delight”, which I still love, I thought it was crap. I had been heavily into soul and R&B since childhood, and this didn’t make sense to me. It wasn’t melodic. It wasn’t James Brown or Joe Simon or Mavis Staples or Al Green. It didn’t feel soulful. It was crap.

Twenty years later, I switched hair salons and was scheduled with a Black male stylist. Our personalities clicked. He is still my stylist and will be till I die or he hangs up his scissors. We talk about everything, but we especially talk about music. He educated me. He broke down those barriers and misconceptions that made me call it crap. He made me mix tapes of rap songs with great melodies and hooks. We talked about the social and cultural importance of rap. It changed my mind.

Twenty years later, I am a 63-year old white woman of Appalachian descent who lives in an upper class, predominantly white neighborhood. I cannot relate to rap on a personal level because I have not lived that life. But I honor and respect it as a legitimate expression and art form. It is NOT crap.

And, yes, I have a little Spotify playlist with Common, Sugar Hill Gang, Tupac and a few others.
It’s all music. It’s all good.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. It's not disliking it.

It's making an ostentatious display of your dislike.

[luvs2sing]

14. Yeah, I get that.

I’m not a fan of opera, but I don’t go around talking about it all the time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I had an an office mate who was an adjunct history professor

He used to say that he wasn't going to say he liked plays or opera just because that's what an "educated" person is expected to say but he didn't go around dismissing those art forms as crap.

[luvs2sing]

37. Exactly.

I have friends who love opera and a couple who sing opera. I have great respect for the talent and insanely hard work it takes to make it in that world. I want to like it. I’ve tried to like it. Sadly, except for the young son of a friend, an amazing baritone, it always feels emotionally overwrought and makes me nervous. That’s my problem, not opera’s.

Anyone who dismisses an art form as crap is showing their ignorance, no matter how “educated” they might be.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. That's the point.

The hatred of the genre and sometimes it's a loud hatred is more than a mere dislike for the music. Chuck D once said, "rap music is the CNN of the ghetto." It helps to understand the motivation behind it.

There's a song Sir Paul McCartney did with Rihanna and Kanye West. Sir Paul called rap "urban poetry".

[Laura PourMeADrink]

67. So is someone making an ostentatious display of their dislike

other than when they hear it or when someone asks? Is this a real widespread racial prejudice problem?????

In my mind, the absence of anything without melody is really on the outskirts of a definition of "music.". Including acid rock. I do like how some newer rap stuff has added a complimentary melody

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. I have seen t-shirts and graffiti that says "rap is crap."

That goes beyond a dislike for the genre. I don't particularly like NASCAR despite growing up thirty miles from the most famous stock car speedway in the world and driving past it every day when I went to state college but I don't wear"NASCAR SUCKS" t-shirts.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

73. I love Nascar! Think because I learned all

about it. . What track?

So how did you make the leap from dislike of rap to that the dislike is driven by racial prejudice?

Kind of a sore subject with me. Just because there are many people who don't even think of race first. Like try to make any kind of statement that's a remote constructive criticism of Harris, for example, and you're automatically deemed a racist... When nothing of the sort ever even entered your mind. To me, part of pure equality IS seeing the person or the music or whatever first.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. "What track?"

The most famous stock car speedway in the world-Daytona 500. I once was parked on the beach and parked next to me was racing royalty-members of the Waltrip clan It's hard to separate stock car racing from southern culture. That's why I question people who go out of their way to hate on it.

I had a friend who passed away, a Black guy, whose daughter invested in a race car team. It didn't do well. He said he told her that's no business for a Black person to get into.

However. NASCAR is becoming more inclusive and that's a good thing.

No person has to think everything a specific group does or a member of a group does is great. The point I'm making is when a person hates a specific aspect of a group or member of that group my antenna goes up.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

84. You are probably right. I am just hoping like hell that

trump being silenced (yay Twitter) sticks. Like let them all go back under that rock they came from.

Daytona! Went for first time 2019. Stayed at beach. Was totally impressed. What a great place to live. How cool being next to the Waltrips !!! My claim to fame was getting on top of a car with friends and driving on talledega track after race. Police converged from everywhere. The guy driving just acted ignorant saying we thought it was the exit. Man it is banked. We really had to hold tight.

You are right about Nascar. They were so respectful toward Bubba's incident. And so covid conscious. Until Daytona......

[Retrograde]

82. I went to a few operas because some friends were in them

I resisted for years because of all the hype and bombast associated with the San Francisco Opera, which made is seem more about making an appearance than actually liking the music. My friends sing with a small, local group: the theater they use seats about 400, the orchestra is too big for the pit so some of them are stuck in the wings, and the sets depend more on ingenuity than big budget: as a consequence there's more of a focus on the actual music and plot (it's just a big musical with some different conventions after all). I can't say they made me an enthusiast, but now I'm open to trying new varieties.

I think something similar is happening with rap: it's core - the music and poetry - is getting lost in the hype and the over-commercialization.

[luvs2sing]

85. Something about your friend's group..

makes me smile. It sounds like something I would go to even not being a fan of opera.

My ex was deeply into reggae when we met. I hated it. Every song sounded the same. A couple years later, he talked me into going to a reggae festival. Seeing it performed live made me a fan.

Hubster loves blues. The first time he played me a Son House record, I thought it was unlistenable. A while later, we were watching a documentary and there was a film clip of Son House performing. I was mesmerized. Now we listen to that unlistenable stuff together all the time.

Hmmm..maybe I need to take myself to the opera when this pandemic is over...you have to keep listening and growing.

[NRaleighLiberal]

13. the reaction to art is personal - neither wrong or right

We each get to choose what resonates with us.

My dislike of rap is purely based on what I like to listen to.

I am sure plenty of people hate my music tastes - and I could not care less.

Country, rap/hip hop, most operas and really free, discordant jazz - classic rock, heavy metal never really enter my listening space.

And over the years, my tastes shift.

[Hortensis]

25. Right. The OP's absolutism is just plain wrong. Intolerance of

changes after the music of one's youth was commonplace among many long before America was settled.

Not limited to grandparents or to art either. Just look at today's extreme rejection of gelatin salads and broadloom carpet among younger generations. Forty years from now almost all won't understand their grandkids' disgust and contempt for the "soulless, dishonest" (or whatever the criticisms are) Pottery Barn "transitional" style but the same sorts will share them for various of the styles that followed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Do you go out our way to lambaste rap or those who like it?

I don't like atonal music like Frank Zappa for instance but if someone told me they liked it I wouldn't insult them. I have had people tell me he was a genius. Maybe he was.


I did kind of like Valley Girl. His aficionados mildly criticized me for my choice.

[Hortensis]

65. Right. Never have, never will. But then I wasn't in training

before I was out of adolescence to become one of those grouchy old people complaining about how everything's gone downhill since my time, "And that rap stuff. That's supposed to be music?"

Nor does my typical disinterest in looking up rap lyrics so I can understand them stem from racism. Frankly, if I can't dance to it, the music itself needs to thrill and sweep me up. Bob Dylan in the '60s-70s, and my age, made him an exception because he was just sooo coool when I was a kid; you weren't anyone if you weren't a fan, even if we weren't always sure just what the lyrics were or meant.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. Is Bob Dylan Hip-Hop's Godfather?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/is-bob-dylan-hip-hops-godfather-64581/

[Hortensis]

75. Okay, you brought up a good one. I remember doing the

west coast swing to that (or what I imagine was), but my kids were teens by then, I was turned off to most popular music and feeling sorry for them, and I don't think I ever looked up the lyrics to this, much less to what they thought was cool.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

77. I actually prefer Diamonds And Rust but here's rap's reach.

[Hortensis]

83. Lol, thanks. She was one of my oldies, and I do like her "reach."

Fwiw, you could dance to this if you choose, or bop around while cooking. I certainly sympathize with her story, and it is poetry, but I would prefer to read it at my own pace. Sad to say, age has degraded my attention span along with most else.

Plus, I'm still a product of my formative years, and what hasn't changed is that I enjoy singing and humming along with music. I don't badmouth rap, it's just never become one of my enjoyments.

[ismnotwasm]

15. There is.

Rap takes incredible skill, word and memory talent. Of course, I like Hip hop a hell of a lot better than I like “new country”. In the kind of discussions with people regarding Rap you are referring to, there is usually a lot of ignorance as well a racial subtext.

People who hate it often haven’t actually listened to it, because that is also a skill. It’s not easy music, I mean, the musical flow is there, but the rapidly spoken words are hard to decipher.

Of course misogyny in any music annoys me, and all lyrical music forms will have some of it in certain verses.

Kid Rock has one old quasi rap song of his I like, but Nugent, who has skill, is an example of a musical misogynist. (see “Stranglehold”, “Cat Scratch Fever’ and “Wang Dang Sweet Poontang”)

[Arthur_Frain]

17. No, some of us appreciate what melody does for music.

Rap has no melody. It’s all 90% beat.

[SlogginThroughIt]

32. Yeah. No.

There is rhythm and often lots of melody. That’s the hook. The chorus and it generally occurs on most songs.

The same elements in rap, rhythmic reciting of lyrics has been present in rock.... Forever. Different but shared elements for sure. My band actually has a song named Rock vs. Rap which covers some of this. Because our singer is based in rap and hip hop.

What I get a kick out of is the assigning rap to be a monolithic thing that all of it falls under one category which couldn’t be further from the truth. There is no one style of rock, one pop, or anything else. But to many all rap is X.

[Arthur_Frain]

92. Disagree, respectfully.

Had a friend who really tried, sorry, but I don’t care for the genre.

Room for all of us in the musical firmament though, it’s a subjective thing in the end.

[SlogginThroughIt]

95. Well I could care leas if you *like* rap.

Music is a preference and different genres fir different people but just some of the untruths and falsehoods about it bother me.

[LakeArenal]

18. I'm confused. "unless it's Ted Nugent or Kid Rock."

You choose who you dislike but another can't?

I’m not sure if I even know the difference between the two. All I know is I like Cyprus Hill, Tone Loc, and House of Pain. House is white. Does that make a difference?

I hate most music where I get screamed at. That leaves out most all metal bands.
Lots of what I think of as rap, yells and seems pretty violent. Not interested in ever listening to that. By the same token I don’t like torch songs. What genre is that?

I guess universal condemnation on any group of people sucks. That’s why I try to find some thing I like that is out of the norm, for me....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I hate Nugent and Kid Rock because one is a racist and both are Trumplicans.

[LakeArenal]

22. I'm not sure why you threw them in then if it's not about the music.

Not trying to argumentative. Just trying to understand the underlying race theme you are discussing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Because their transgressions imo raises my ire.

If they were really great artists to me I could possibly see past their transgressions. It's easier for me to dismiss Scott Baio than Jon Voight, the latter of whom can actually act.


And I'm dismissing artists, not entire genres.

[LakeArenal]

46. But I really dislike both. I think Voight isnt a good actor at all.

Not really. You are discussing a racial element of hip hop or rap. Not whether some one is crappy at it

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. You got me to learn something about myself

I singled out those artists for opprobrium because I dislike their politics , the same way some denigrate rap in harsh terms because they don't like the culture that generated it.

Back to Voight I really liked his work in Ali and Ray Donovan.

[LakeArenal]

61. Thanks for keeping it a discussion and not an attack.

I appreciate it as I was just tying to get on the same page.

I think there’s a racial element in just about everything we do, see, or hear.

Most of the time I don’t think we recognize it. But I’m always willing to improve my own thoughts on racism and how I might be unconsciously racist. My parents were hard core and my community was very homogenized. (White)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. Nugent isn't a bad guitarist but I hate his politics so much I won't listen to him.

[WarGamer]

44. I can separate the music from the artist.

Nugent was part of the "Soundtrack" of the late 70's early 80's growing up in Southern California.

Saw him a few times, memorably at Cal Jam in like 78, 79, 80-ish...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. When I think of SoCal I think of the Laurel Canyon scene

Jackson Browne
The Eagles
Linda Ronstadt

[WarGamer]

57. I grew up near the San Fernando Valley in the 70's-80's...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I grew up in Central Florida but live in Woodland Hills now.

When I was a teenager I knew these two kids from Orange County who moved with their parents to Central Florida. Jackson Browne's mother was one of their teachers. Great artist.

[WarGamer]

64. Wish you could have seen the Valley in the 70's...

Truly was the GOLDEN STATE.

Best schools in the nation... new roads, new everything... my High School offered SIX foreign language elective options.

Will never forget, German (I took 3 years), French (took one year), Russian, Italian, Spanish and Latin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. What high school did you go to?

I live in Woodland Hills. Natives said it used to be cornfields. I'm a product of the suburbs. Woodland Hills is getting pretty far west, almost Ventura County. It's more of a traditional suburb than say Van Nuys or Reseda.

My gf works downtown. It takes me 70 minutes to pick her up from work and 50 minutes to drive home. I told her if I didn't have XM radio the trip would make me crazy.

This conversation is going all over the place. Rodney Dangerfield was disappointed that he became a huge success at an age where he was too old to really take advantage of it. I think I would have liked SoCal a lot better if I was a young man.

[WarGamer]

68. Glendale HS... still keep a home base in Pasadena.

With my former employer and current contract employer I have to travel and spend a few months here and there.

In DC now, afraid they will send me back to Mumbai before the Cherry trees bloom...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. That's the other side of the Valley.

So you know how insane the traffic is.

[dawg]

23. I'm sure that's true for some people, but others have different reasons for their outspoken dislike.

I think there are lots of rock fans who resent rap for pushing their favorite genre of music off of top 40 radio. Such individuals are generally equally resentful of dance pop, boy bands, etc.

Personally, I can find songs and albums to love in almost all genres of music.

[mvd]

45. As a big music fan, I can understand

Rap and heavy metal are among my least favorites, but I have listed to Eminem, Kanye West, and Kendrick Lamar before. Just like I have a Metallica album in my collection.

[BannonsLiver]

26. I detest country music with the heat of a thousand suns

Particularly modern country. I have respect for Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Cash etc., but this Florida Georgia Line and Morgan Whalen shit is just terrible.

I loved rap in the early days with Boogie Down Productions, NWA and Public Enemy, but nowadays it’s all about butts, going to the club or bottle service. Just not very thought provoking or interesting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Don't forget Kris Kristofferson or Emmylou Harris

[mvd]

49. I like country

Some modern and some traditional. But there is also plenty of crap out there. I grew up in the 80s-90s country when it was more consistent IMO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. My favorite country songs

The talent on that stage!!!

[Sympthsical]

53. Bo Burnham nailed modern "stadium" country

&t=83s

[nam78_two]

27. It is the total outlook

I slam religion all the time because I do dislike and fear religion (unless it is private and non-pushy). I just posted in a thread bashing clerics harassing women in Iran. But at the same time irl I call out islamophobia all the time-e.g.: moronic claims stereotyping all muslims or anyone really. Stereotyping is laziness in pattern finding.

Human beings are good at understanding subtleties and context when they are being honest. I can usually tell when people are prejudiced/disingenuous and engaging in sophistry. People who merely dislike rap rarely go out of their way to bash it.

And prejudices can be unconnected with race, religion and gender. I dislike sports (yes all of them) but mostly I don't think about sports.

[malaise]

30. +1,000

Like every genre, there are great, good, ordinary and sub-par artistes.

Here's something interesting - the man who pioneered toasting in songs - the great Jamaican U-Roy died this week. His classics preceded both Rap and Dance Hall. Dance Hall faces the same denigration.

By the way there is no Unforgettable duet with Nat and Natalie without the pioneering work done by the toasters.

Here's a great read
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/19/u-roy-jamaica-reggae-soundsystems-appreciation

[rogue emissary]

33. K&R for visibility.

[Politicub]

34. Hard to disagree.

I didn’t like rap when I started paying attention to MTV in the mid-80s. Maybe it was unconscious bias on my part since I grew up in a very racist area. But when I met my husband, he was really into rap, and had his car outfitted with big bass speakers.

Then I started listening to the words and felt the musicality of the form. I didn’t get beyond pop rap very much.

But learning to appreciate rap is what led me to the idea of learning about what to appreciate in other musical genres. I don’t always like genres; a friend loves metal and I liked learning about it, even though I don’t like listening. The themes of alienation, nihilism and catharsis thread through it.

[Jeebo]

35. It's rap music fans' ostentatious display of their LIKE for it.

Last edited Sat Feb 20, 2021, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I can't stand rap music, but the way its fans drive around with their cars booming so loud you can hear them two blocks away, the car itself bouncing up and down on its shocks in time to the sound, is what offends me about it. What I am saying is that the ostentation is not in my intense dislike for their "music" but in the way they rudely try to make everybody else HAVE to also listen to it, whether they want to or not. I am 71 years old, White, male, heterosexual, Southern, and a lover of classical music and opera, and I would never criticize anybody else for their taste in whatever they want to listen to, except when they "ostentatiously" and rudely try to FORCE me to listen to what they call "music" whether I want to listen to it or not. My brother in Leesburg, Florida had a neighbor some years back, a young Black man, who would take his loudspeakers into his front yard and blare his "music" at obscene volumes, and when my brother complained to his neighbor about this, the neighbor's response would include something about the way White people have historically mistreated Black people. Which is perfectly true, but it also had absolutely NOTHING to do with that situation. That situation had to do only with one neighbor being rude and obnoxious to his neighbors. It had nothing to do with racial issues. It had to do only with common courtesy and decency, and mutual respect.

-- Ron

[Delarage]

50. This

I don't like rap--or opera--but it's rare that people pull up at the gas station blasting opera so loud I have to listen to it. I don't really give a rat's ass what people listen or what is on the radio--I have my own collection of what I like. But when I can't avoid it, I get annoyed. I'm not opposed to vulgar language, either, but I am careful about when/where I use it or listen to it. I don't walk around in stores cursing and I wouldn't blast music (of any genre) that had vulgar language in it. I'm not an expert on rap---but what I've heard sitting in traffic or at the gas station seems heavy on inappropriate language. And I don't think I'm a fuddy-duddy--I just think we as a society need to improve our manners in general.

I love Bruce Springsteen, but if my neighbor blasted it so loud (and when I wasn't in the mood or I was trying to concentrate on something else), I'd be annoyed, too.

[Vinca]

36. I'll take the Temptations any day over rap "music." At best it's poetry IMO.

If you like it, fine, but there's no racial element involving in hating it. I hate country music, too, and that's mostly white.

[treestar]

38. I don't denigrate it

but I admit I don't like it. I like rock, classical, folk, but not jazz or rap.

[Delarage]

47. Being a Trump Tool

Is enough reason for me to dislike him---or any artist of any genre. Ick. Coordinating with Trump to try to help him win

[WarGamer]

40. Not in my head...

I just don't like certain genres.

I love 80's-90's Heavy Metal but the "Death Metal/Speed Metal" that came around in the 90's and 00's is terrible.

I like to make emotional connections to music. When I hear a well tensioned bow strike a well strung cello... THAT'S MUSIC.

I don't like Death Metal because the vocalists use this guttural technique.

I don't like SOME rap.

I DO like some rap.

I LIKE the catchy commercial stuff like 2Pac's California Love... it's an anthem for a generation.

I like Dr. Dre and Ice Cube...

I like Beastie Boys and even Will Smith... even that skinny white kid from Detroit

The only people who hate rap "cuz black thing" also hate NFL, BTV, Rihanna and hang Confederate flags out front.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. Cube flirted with anti-semitism but disavowed it. I hope he keeps disavowing it.

He's a great artist. A friend of mine's daughter went to high school with his son and went to a Lakers game with him. She said they were accompanied by a phalanx of bodyguards. She said her daughter asked Ice Cube if she could call him Cube. He said call me Mr. Jackson.

[mvd]

42. I agree. I don't listen to the genre, but some rappers are definitely talented

My favorite genres are classic rock, pop (especially power pop), rock, singer/songwriter and indie, folk and classical.

[DFW]

43. Not that it matters much, but my favorite rap piece was by an old white Jewish guy 40 years ago

Warning: By the way, if you don't like Mel Brooks, you won't like this!

[cwydro]

48. I like most of the original rap and the OG rappers.

Some of this new stuff, just no.

[Sympthsical]

51. Really depends on what you're criticizing

Let me say off the bat that I'm not a fan of hip hop. Just not for me. Same way country isn't really for me or jazz music that goes on and on without a melody like I'm in the longest elevator to hell.

That said. There are parts of hip hop that I think are great poetry and art. But that isn't really the part I hear complained about. It's not the part I complain about.

There was an incident at work last year where workers in a part of the warehouse pretty much listened to whatever as they went about things. Then complaints started rolling in about music choices. Then one day I went in there. It was n-word this, b-word that. Those b's hoppin on my D because I have money. The homophobia was just lovely, too.

Yeah, no. No, no, no, no, no. Not at work. Not acceptable. And when I told them to knock it off, I got called racially insensitive. "It's our culture." No, it's not. That bigotry isn't anyone's culture, and it doesn't belong in the workplace. There is tons of hip hop that doesn't include that. Want to listen to that at work? I have no complaint.

Imagine if you had an entire genre of country music that denigrated women, LGBTers, and black people nonstop. How long before we'd start having a lot to say about it?

Same thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. Homophobia and misogyny aren't intrinsic to anybody's culture.

And rappers are getting a lot better in not glorifying either, at least the ones who want to be commercially successful.

[quickesst]

52. There is more talent....

......in Al Green's little finger than there is in the entire catalog of rap music. Nuff said.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. "I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can."

That's genius and the epitome of boasting.

[quickesst]

90. okay....

[johnp3907]

58. And that racial element is on display in this thread.

I’m surprised no one has said “I don’t hear color.”

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. The point is lost on some.

There is a lot of rap I don't like. Sometimes there's one too many F, B, or N words but it doesn't fill me with rage. The genre fills some with rage towards the artists and audience. That's who I'm referring to.

[johnp3907]

87. Yeah, your point was totally clear.

The reaction of some here just shows how deeply ingrained racism is.

[LakeArenal]

89. There hasn't been one person on here that has said anything to warrant the accusation

of “ingrained racism”.

That statement seemed pretty racist to me.
As someone said earlier, sometimes you can’t disagree with a black person without being called a racist.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

93. Sorry but that is 100% unwarranted and ridiculous sorry.

[csziggy]

71. I work with Sturgeon's Law - "Ninety percent of everything is crap."

So for me, it's not surprising that most of any genre of music is crap. Even for genre's like rap, I have found some individual pieces that I like. So for rap, as for every type of music, if I hear something I don't like I change the channel if possible. If it's a situation I don't have control over, such as someone else playing it, I just ignore it. Repeatedly criticizing the stuff I don't like does not good - it wastes my time and irritated others.

It worked the same for the various forms of rock music, from the fifties through the nineties - there was a lot of crap put out. Even "classical" had a lot of crap - thankfully most of the crap has not survived.

My one big failing is that when I find an artist (or group) that I like more than one of their pieces, I tend to collect everything of theirs, even the crap. I keep hoping to find at least one musical phrase in the crap that is good.

[Retrograde]

78. I remember similar arguments in the 80s about disco

I heard some people claim back then that if you don't like disco you must be homophobic.

I believe in a modified Sturgeon's Law: roughly 10% of a particular genre is good, 10% is crap, and the other 80% is largely mediocre. The trick is finding the good 10%, which usually involves listening to a lot of the the not-so-good 90%. Going back to disco, I find that now, 30 years later, there is some good stuff there that still holds up - but it took that long for the dreck and not-so-good stuff to fade away.

I freely admit that I'm not au courant with modern Rap (I do know that it is a continually changing and evolving form), but if someone wants to point out some of the key artists I may take a listen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. I think Jagger called an album two good songs, surrounded by crap.

"I believe in a modified Sturgeon's Law: roughly 10% of a particular genre is good, 10% is crap, and the other 80% is largely mediocre. The trick is finding the good 10%, which usually involves listening to a lot of the the not-so-good 90%. Going back to disco..."

[brooklynite]

88. "Making an ostentatious display of your dislike"

Sort of like endlessly complaining about Joe Scarborough or Chuck Todd?


Personally, I hate rap music. The key point is I won’t point that out unless I’m asked.

[Azathoth]

91. It's the same thing as criticizing Israel

There are plenty of sincere, legitimate criticisms of rap, both artistic and cultural, but these critiques often get shouted loudest by insincere people who are looking for publicly acceptable arguments to cover for their non-publicly acceptable bigotry.

Same thing happens with Israel policy, immigration policy, crime statistics, etc.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. On another board

On another board, a poster will point out how the crime rate is higher among different groups, how the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases are higher in certain groups, how Jews's representation in certain professions is higher than their actual numbers in the larger community would suggest, et cetera. All without context.

It's hard not to see an agenda lurking.