General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe 2nd most frightening political statistic I've seen: Majority of Republican voters blame Antifa
for staging the insurrection at the Capital last month (with a smattering of Trump supporters in the crowd.) If that many million Americans can be convinced that lie is true, after the mob was broadcast live on national television, they can be convinced to believe anything. Unlike "the original sin" of Trump's Big Lie about a stolen election, which was predicted by Trump a thousands times before election day, and then peddled as stone cold truth by him a thousand times after the election, it took very little prepping to get Republican voters to swallow whole the lie that Antifa led the invasion of Congress.
Trump spent 50 million dollars to get his supporters to come to DC on January 6th. Republican voters were the ones bombarded by Trump's call to turn out en masse to "Stop The Steal", and yet they are willing to believe that a shadowy group called Antifa dominated that crowd in disguise? No wonder Republican politicians and GOP operatives have moved on from simply spinning facts and selectively editing data to the complete fabrication of an evidence free alternate reality.It is so much more efficient to make up anything they want.
The most frightening politician statistic that I'm still trying to come to terms with is that a majority of Republican members of Congress actually voted to overturn the certified results of a presidential election held in six states that didn't vote the way they wanted them to, in order to elect the candidate of their choice instead.
Beakybird
(3,332 posts)Definite cognitive dissonance.
StClone
(11,683 posts)Using people's own mindset, prejudices, and inability to use logic to sway them away from reality? They want to be entertained (as to their beliefs) and to see some one espousing that which goes with their ideas even if wrong. It's very magical! As in magical thinking...lies, untruths, delusion..and dangerous.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)for starkly obvious truth in the minds of the susceptible, and how many minds dwell in that latter category.
StClone
(11,683 posts)...on to more distant isles of alternate beliefs. They keep getting the lies they want to hear...rinse out the truth and repeat.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Botany
(70,490 posts)The Truth will come out starting today. If or if not the brain dead Fox News watchers believe it is
a question. Funny on how all those "Antifa people" had all those Trump flags.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/capitol-riot-trump-senate/2021/02/22/abd53038-7527-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html
But Tuesdays hearing before members of two Senate committees could also become a battleground for competing narratives over what prompted the riot and who was responsible for it a question that has become even more pointed following former president Donald Trumps acquittal on an impeachment charge earlier this month.
Trumps allies in Congress and beyond have sought to downplay Trumps role in gathering his supporters in Washington and spreading the false claim that he, not President Biden, won the November election facts that led to bipartisan impeachment proceedings. Instead, they have sought to blame lapses by Capitol security officials and the congressional leaders they report to for the buildings invasion.
snip
This is a moment to get the actual facts about what happened at the Capitol, she (Sen. Amy Klobuchar) said. The issues we identify and the answers we get are part of the solution, so this isnt just about throwing popcorn at a movie screen to try to get sound bites. We actually have to make decisions in the coming months.
snip
While neither Irving nor Stenger has addressed the matter directly, a former Capitol security official who spoke to The Washington Post last month at Irvings request relayed that Irving dismissed Sunds request to place National Guard troops on call, citing the optics of stationing uniformed military personnel at the seat of federal government.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)When they say the 'blame' Antifa, or that they are 'responsible', the respondents don't necessarily believe that Antifa was the ones there doing it.
Many of them actually know who was there doing it, but they think the actions of Antifa and BLM over the summer ... vandalizing the courthouse in Portland and such ... justify and excuse ... what happened on Jan 6.
It's a 'well, the other side did it first and we can't let their side win' type of justification.
Not all of course but I guarantee a fair % of them who answered 'Antifa is to blame' answered it that way on the grounds I said above. I've seen them do so online.
It is still frightening though. And what the RePuQ's did re: the election is worse indeed.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)They asked the question:
"Do you think Antifa was involved in the takeover of the Capitol building?"
69% of Republicans answered "Yes"
They also asked:
"How much responsibility does President Trump have for the takeover of the Capitol?"
53% or Republicans said "None". Only 8% of Republicans said "A lot."
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/4yijjbkc2z/econTabReport.pdf
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)That, in someone's mind who WANTS to blame it on someone else, is an open invitation to fabricate some reason to accuse them of involvement.
"The people who did it were mad about what BLM/Antifa did over the summer!"
Boom ... Antifa is now 'involved'.
My evidence is anecdotal but I've seen them doing this in a FB forum I peruse.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Many on camera directly blame Antifa. I was watching The Circus and they covered Trump's Texas rally after the insurrection and they weren't giving that level of nuance.
There was also a teacher that directly blamed antifa.
I have a bad feeling 20 years from now I will still be arguing who really won the 2020 election and who really stormed the Capitol.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)I guarantee you depending on how the question was asked, these people would answer that way.
How many such people are included in any particular survey, I'm not sure. But there are these people.
I'm also sure there are many who are completely duped (if you could call it that) and think the insurrection really was a bunch of uncover Antifa out to make IQ45 look bad.
Total fucking liars and/or morons, IOW.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Proud Boys showed up in Portland for the protests and many of them came from outside Portland. The Boogaloo Bois set a Minneapolis police station on fire plus they are known for killing cops. There was also the plot to kidnap Whitmer and they stormed the Michigan State Capitol.
They also stormed the Oregon & Idaho Capitols.
https://deadline.com/2020/12/armed-protesters-enter-oregon-state-capitol-building-assault-police-chemical-agent-1234660385/
Ammon Bundy, 3 others arrested at Idaho Capitol on trespassing charges
https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/ammon-bundy-3-others-arrested-at-idaho-capitol-on-trespassing-charges/article_7dbf7efa-f703-5fc2-b4e9-477f1a2dbe87.html
There was also the Charlottesville rally which ended with a counter-protestor dead and several others injured.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)'why do these people answer like they do'.
I'm not arguing it freaking 'makes sense'
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)It's a USA Today poll:
"Most Trump voters embrace a version of events on Jan. 6 that has been debunked by independent fact checkers and law enforcement agencies.
Asked to describe what happened during the assault on the Capitol, 58% of Trump voters call it "mostly an antifa-inspired attack that only involved a few Trump supporters." That's more than double the 28% who call it "a rally of Trump supporters, some of whom attacked the Capitol." Four percent call it "an attempted coup inspired by President Trump."
Find it half way down this page, under the sub headline "Embracing an untruth: antifa's role":
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/21/exclusive-trump-party-he-still-holds-loyalty-gop-voters/6765406002/
Ocelot II
(115,674 posts)are less than 30% of all voters. https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
It's still bad, though.
The Magistrate
(95,244 posts)It seems to me people answering 'yes' when asked if the election was stolen do not really believe it was, but are declaring they won't accept the verdict of the ballot box, and want their guy kept in office, no matter what.
People saying 'it was antifa' when asked who stormed the Capitol probably don't actually think this, but are declaring people like them ought not be punished for doing what they themselves wanted done.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)It's nice to have you back here
samnsara
(17,616 posts)...plus the insurrectionists left lots of DNA in various disgusting but easily traced forms.
Ponietz
(2,960 posts)What they're really saying is they will never again cede power if they regain the presidency--
and, if they control the House and Senate in 2024 they will refuse to certify a Democratic President-elect.
TheRealNorth
(9,478 posts)Our choice may very well be quiet acquiescence or aggressive resistance.
comradebillyboy
(10,143 posts)to the maximum extent of the law.
OAITW r.2.0
(24,455 posts)That would seem to be the logical conclusion to reach. Then, when every "antifa" insurrectionist is put on trial, we finally can get the inside story on this mysterious group that looks and acts like your typical Trump humper.