Bernie live on MSNBC: no chance we get a wage raise (even 11) unless it is through reconciliation

[Celerity]

He said that there is not a single Rethug atm who will vote for cloture on any wage raise (as they will filibuster any and all stand-alone bills on it)

ffs

[Fullduplexxx]

1. sinema ... manchin

[Celerity]

3. In a standalone bill, we need 60 votes to end the filibuster

Even if Manchin and Sinema support it, we are 10 short.

And at least 3 Dems (Manchin, Sinema, and Feinstein) will not vote to toss the filibuster. Likely some other Dems too.

[onecaliberal]

2. If we don't kill the filibuster we're screwed.

[Celerity]

4. Screwed it is then, as Manchin, Sinema, and Feinstein (and maybe more) will not vote to end it

[dsc]

5. There are things short of ending it than they might go along with

that would severely weaken it. One big one would be to require 41 votes to sustain the filibuster as opposed to 60 votes to break it. Another would be to raise the threshold to 45 votes to sustain. At the very least start requiring actual filibusters as opposed to emails.

[onecaliberal]

6. We need to get to work on our home turf and elect people

That want to do things for people and not those who are fucking corporate puppets that do nothing but harm.

[LizBeth]

7. So he has failed? And Sanders has always made it the Democrats failure in same situation.

[Celerity]

8. no, this is not Bernie as 'outside any sort of mainstream Dem policy' Bernie. This is Bernie

as a senior Dem leader talking about the raw brute voting power in the Senate allayed against BIDEN's own initiatives.. Sanders has no control over either the parliamentarian, nor over the Rethugs, so it is not 'his fail'.

[LizBeth]

9. This is the same ole Sanders that have brutally gone after Democratic Leaders in exactly the same

situation.

[Celerity]

10. Your framing on this is false. This issue has nothing to do with Sanders trying to push his own

agenda, it is Biden's (and ALL the rest of the Dems save for Manchin and perhaps Sinema) and he certainly is not blaming Dems on this at all. He was speaking only about the political realities of the Senate in terms of the reconciliation structural process and the standalone bill possibilities.

[LizBeth]

11. He can't blame Dems on this one because he is the one in position that is suppose to magically

get it thru regardless of the sheer power of opposition and the reality that he cannot get it thru. It never stopped Sanders from ripping the Democrats a new one. Now as a democrat I am well aware of the realities as I am when it happens to Democratic leaders in other situations and I do not blame Sanders. just point out previous history of Sanders accusations and allegations towards our Democratic Leaders.

[Celerity]

12. Sanders is not in a position to 'magically get it thru', that is nonsensical, and false scapegoating

Name me one time Sanders single-handedly stopped an Obama initiative that was sailing through before the evil Bern put his mighty foot down and stopped it. In case you missed it, the last time we had control, before January 2021, of the the POTUS, the House, and the Senate was the lame duck session ending in December 2010. You are trying to conflate advocacy for political stances with systemic blockage of bills.

[LizBeth]

13. Nor were the Democratic Leqaders and Sanders still chose to blame them. We Democrats are better than

that. Sanders has run twice in the Democratic Primary insisting he could get is far out policies thru.

[Celerity]

14. You are just trying to take shots at Sanders, and to ludicrously blame him for this mess.

Disagreement philopshically is not the same as stone-cold stopping bills and nominations that would have otherwise passed, like what Manchin and/or Sinema quite likely are going to do, along with what a multiplicity of upcoming Rethug filibusters (which could be overcome except Manchin, Sinema and Feinstein's insistence on maintaining the filibuster) will do.

[LizBeth]

15. I don't blame him for the mess. Realty says otherwise.

[Celerity]

17. Ridiculous, the 'reality' of this shows Sanders is NOT the blockage, no matter much you try and

paint it as such.

[LizBeth]

18. Nor are the Democrats when in the same situation, it doesn't stop Sanders going after them.

[Celerity]

19. Name the 'same situation' you keep talking about, and remember, it has to be only in the period

between January 20th, 2009 (when Obama was sworn in) and December 2010, when the lame duck session ended. We lost the House starting January 3rd, 2011.

Sanders was only in the Senate for 2 years before Obama won. We did not have unitary control of the House, Senate, and POTUS other than that short 2 year (actually less than 2 years) timespan. Anything else is chalk and cheese to situation now.

[LizBeth]

20. Check out debates in two primaries alone.

[ChubbyStar]

22. between January 20th, 2009 (when Obama was sworn in) and December 2010

That is what the poster asked. Did we have debates then? You seem to be skipping rope with no rope.

[LizBeth]

23. So? lol.

[ChubbyStar]

24. You didn't answer their question

LOL Liz.

[LizBeth]

25. Again, so?

[ChubbyStar]

28. Ahh fishing is a lovely hobby don't you think?

Just a person and a pole trying to reel something in, quite elegant. Enjoy your night Liz.

[Celerity]

26. Complete non sequitur. Primary debates are in no way comparable to the actual blocking of bills and

cabinet nominees. You apparently seem to want to have a go at Sanders because of philopshically differences. Sanders has never single-handedly blocked a Dem POTUS's major legislation, nor any Dem POTUS's cabinet nominee, and he is working hard to support BIDEN's agenda now.

[LizBeth]

27. You are missing the point of my post and not gonna be windowed into an argument I am not willing

to have.

[Celerity]

29. Oh, I so do get your 'point'. nt

[LizBeth]

30. You are certainly ignoring my point and wanting a different conversation.

[Celerity]

31. I am ignoring nothing, you were the one who tried to take the entire thread off into the weeds

of personal differences of opinion and attempted scapegoating, things that have absolutely no logical relevance to a simple informational OP about the structural state of a vote on the raising on the federal minimum wage.

You know, the one Biden and most all Dems have been pushing since the 2020 campaigns began (and which also was part of Clinton's 2016 platform, and was campaigned on by a multiplicity of other Dems in 2018 as well).

[LizBeth]

33. lol

[ChubbyStar]

32. Wait what didn't you ignore their point a few posts back?

You wanted a different conversation then, gosh this just must be so difficult.

[LizBeth]

34. So?

[ChubbyStar]

35. Thanks for your deep insight Liz

You are tremendously entertaining. Cheers!

[LizBeth]

36. Ahhhh. Very cool. Thanks.

[Hortensis]

16. No, Sanders can't now, and he clearly sees that

even if not everyone can.

True, unwavering belief in one's leader and the crusade is its own virtue, though. We all understand that a higher truth, transcending mundane realities, is that Democrats are always to blame.

[LizBeth]

21. This lol. Exactly. Would be nice if it was recognized for the future but not looking like it will

happen.