DU Farmers - tell me more about the no till model

[malaise]

of farming

[WheelWalker]

1. Are you asking about production agriculture or gardening?

[malaise]

7. Gardening really -

small production. I watched a program about it and was quite impressed

[MuseRider]

2. All I know is that

they started teaching at Kansas State years ago. A lot of farmers do it around here but the corporate farms do not, at least from what I have heard. My crop just grows...grass to feed cattle and horses etc. It has been successful keeping our top soil intact when the winds blow and that is always a good thing however there are times that it seems close to a small dust bowl situation often because of breaking the top soil down so much. You used to hear about it a lot because it was a big thing. Not so much anymore but that could easily be because more people ARE doing it.

That is about all I know. Not much but I do know if everyone did it things would be much better, our food would be of better quality and we would all be healthier.

[malaise]

8. I was fascinated about the preservation of top soil

and clearly you know more than me.

[MuseRider]

15. And now you know the complete

amount of what I know. I can say, if I had a crop that needed yearly planting I would know a lot more about it because looking back in the past it was the disturbing of the top soil that made the dust bowl so bad. We really should learn from that but I fear there are more farmers just busting the soil and spraying the crap out of it making it even worse. Time will tell. Not long ago there was a lot of press about no till farming. I hope many took advantage of the courses and started doing it. It would be much cheaper for them both in labor costs and soil additives.

[yagotme]

3. Not sure if this is the answer you seek,

but, for example, after winter wheat is harvested in early summer, soybeans are planted, with a "drill" (type of seed planter) without turning the soil over. The wheat stalks are the cover, until the bean plants start emerging. Properly planted wheat (which is also "drilled&quot , is thickly planted in the late fall, sprouting to a few inches high, wintering over, and growing in the spring, allowing no/very little weed growth to get started, therefore the beans have little competition for growing space.

A "drill" is a towed implement, usually planting rows approx. 9" apart, a small disc blade opening up a slot in the ground, with the seed being dropped immediately behind it in rapid succession, and some kind of drag, older models using large looped chains to "cover" the seeds. More modern equipment uses high pressure air to "shoot" seed into the ground, AFAIK. I'm more conversant with the older methods, myself.

No-till up sides are no extra trip over field to till ground, saving fuel, planting in "covered" ground, less erosion/runoff.

Down sides, tilling decreases the hardness of the soil ("black" dirt, not so much of a problem, clay/clay loam soils can become very hard), water "soaks" into tilled soil better if just a light/moderate rain, especially clay based. Look at a local baseball diamond after a heavy rain, most use clay for the base. Some you can just about go swimming in.

ETA: "Smiley" isn't supposed to be a smiley, it's a " followed by a ).

[Atticus]

4. Totally agree with your explanation. ( if you delete Mr. Smiley, replace him with an open space

and THEN close the parenthesis, he will not appear. )

Have had same problem numerous times.

[yagotme]

5. I just left him,

and explained why. Next time (if) it comes up, I'll fix it.

[malaise]

10. Thanks

It's the fuel saving and preservation of top soil that impressed me.

[Lars39]

6. Here's the wiki on it...

I didn’t know what I thought I knew
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-till_farming

[malaise]

11. Thanks

Bookmarked

[Brother Buzz]

9. No till beans was a big thing forty-five years ago

An easy peasy second crop after the wheat was harvested. That is, if if rained.

That's all I remember from my misadventures in the agricultural realm.

[malaise]

12. LOL

Thanks

[Alex4Martinez]

13. Kiss the Ground Documentary. Watch it!

Right Fucking Now!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc7HM-7sBLaxWhhOzAkf04A

https://veritablevegetable.com/kiss-the-ground-film/

[Backseat Driver]

16. Also watch "The Need to Grow"

https://www.earthconsciouslife.org/theneedtogrow

Steam here: https://www.kanopy.com/product/need-grow or enjoy at cost from Prime Video

Also, iIf you're interested in food organics, check out: The Rodale Institute
https://rodaleinstitute.org/blog/

[malaise]

21. Thank you

I love DUers

[Celerity]

14. a lot of videos on it here

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+No-till+farming

cheers

[malaise]

22. Thanks

[MontanaFarmer]

17. No-Till is also a major factor in production agriculture, as others above noted.

It requires some fairly specialized equipment, but the theory of building organic matter and storing more carbon in the soil has plenty of merit. In wheat country, most crops are seeded with a hoe drill with a narrow opener, which is not true "no till" but pretty darn close. What we're starting to see is something similar to the soybean drill mentioned above, with disc openers that just slice a very narrow trench in the soil to drop the seed in, then toss some soil back over the trench. I'm a believer in the soil health benefits of no-till, but it's still production agriculture, with the attendant chemical fertilizers and pesticides. There is a school out there of no-till organic, but it doesn't work well in certain soil types (lighter, sandier soils like where I am) due to exorbitant weed pressure. We till our organic acres with a chisel plow, which is very shallow and almost as low-disturbance as tillage can be. We don't use the old tandem discs or moldboard plows around here any more.
I think if we really wanted to make agriculture more holistic, more environmentally and climate-friendly, the incorporation of high-intensity grazing would accomplish that. The grazing animals cause re-growth on a cover or perennial crop, causing the plant to take in and therefore sequester more carbon in the soil. I really hope a policy change to facilitate this is in our future, but it can't be just happy horse s%$&, it has to be strictly farmed no-till to keep the carbon stored in the soil. Pretty interesting field, we have the tools to rebuild our topsoil, in my opinion, we just need the policies put in place (political will ) to do so.

[malaise]

23. DU never ceases to amaze me

I learn new stuff daily

[jcgoldie]

18. If you are talking about gardening...

Your issues are soil compaction and weed control. They depend a lot on the soil in your area and the climate. If you don't till then you will have to spend a lot of time hoeing weeds manually in tough soil or you can try chemical alternatives like preen which you may not favor.

If you try it then you should research hugelkultur... I tried it years ago and some things I like ...you bury logs its very sustainable and provides like a sponge for moisture sink beneath the soil but it makes it very difficult to till...

https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur

[malaise]

24. Thank you

First time I have been the word hugelkultur.

[GulfCoast66]

19. I studied Agronomy and plant science at the University of Kentucky where no till was invented

Kentucky has very rich soil but it tends to be hilly and prone to erosion. Most of the posts above pretty much explained No Till. It has helped to save our soil from erosion and even helps slowly improve it.

Now things may have changed since the mid 80’s when I studied it, but no till back then involved a pretty healthy use of herbicides because tilling soil helps eliminate weeds. I never worked in row crop agriculture since graduating instead working more in the horticulture field. Unless you garden on a hill I’m not sure No Till offers you much of an advantage. You can still add to the nutrition of you soil if using a tiller. Here in Florida with our sandy soil it took me 4-5 years of tilling in organic matter before I had decent soil for gardening.

[malaise]

20. Thanks - this is clearly your area of expertise and I want to

read the pros and cons.

[GulfCoast66]

25. So now you have me curious

It’s good your interested in soil. 33 years ago I joined a workforce of mainly horticulture majors and was surprised at their lack of soil awareness. You would think that horticulture majors would have a similar field of study as agronomy majors. But I found that in the 80’s they did not. That has changed some.

Do you live in the hills of Jamaica or the plains? In the hills soil conservation will be important.

What I’m curious about is what you grow. The wife and I grow all the things you would expect in the American south and because in Florida we do it October through April. Tomatoes, green beans, celery and every common green eaten in the south. Plus most herbs and tons of flowers. I imagine you grow more tropical items. Am I correct?

Gardening is my profession as well as a major part of my private life.

Have a nice weekend.

[malaise]

26. I live on the plains and am not a farmer

In this small space, we grow peppers, tomatoes, string beans and a variety of herbs and flowers.

I have links to folks living in Irish Town, Gordon Town, Guava Ridge and other parts of the St Andrew hills on the way to the Blue Mountains. Any good advice I can pass on to them is helpful as severe land erosion is a part of their lives..

Thanks for your help.

[Donkees]

27. Those techniques are mentioned in 'Climate-Smart Farming Practices - Jamaica' sites ...

Contour cropping, Barrier Farming, Mulching, etc.

---

There's also:

CBA (Community-Based Adaptation) Jamaica: Glengoffe Climate Change Adaptation (with links to videos, etc)

Project Details

The poor farming practices of small hillside farmers in Glengoffe, Jamaica, have had negative impacts on the environment due to the techniques employed and the fragility of the soil. Climate change is expected to exacerbate these damages to crops and ecosystems, and a projected increase in rainfall levels and drought are expected to bring about further onslaughts to the physical structures such as roads, bridges, power lines houses, and farm structures.

This Community-Based Adaptation project is designed to combat these challenges by increasing ecosystem resilience in the face of climate change. This will be achieved through activities that raise climate change awareness amongst Glengoffe residents, as well as enlist them in on-the-ground activities that reduce vulnerability. These activities include the reforestation of deforested slopes and in public spaces, erection of drip irrigation system to mitigate effects of drought, and contoured farming and terracing. Specific training and project works will also include tissue culture techniques; fruit tree planting; vegetative barriers; minimum tillage; cover cropping; log barriers; storm drainage; irrigation systems; and composting.

There is expected to be a significant reduction in crops and income losses due to climate change-related impacts. It will also empower farmers and the wider community by heightening their awareness and capacity to manage the local natural resources in light of climate variability.

https://www.climateandforests-undp.org/projects/spa-cba-jamaica-glengoffe-climate-change-adaptation

[malaise]

28. Glengoffe - wow

Manley pushed the replanting of the hills to help with the soil erosion, but I was unaware of the minimum tillage being a part of our climate change solutions.

Thanks for this

[Donkees]

29. The Rural Agricultural Development Authority (RADA) has more...

Soil and Climatic Conditions Suitable to Minimum Tillage
https://rada.gov.jm/minimum-tillage

The Rural Agricultural Development Authority (RADA) is a statutory body under the Ministry of Agriculture & Lands. RADA was established under the Rural Agricultural Development Authority Act of 1990, replacing the Land Authorities Act and began its operation on August 1, 1990. It is Jamaica’s chief agricultural extension and rural development agency.


Steep slopes
Shallow gravelly soils
Soils prone to drought
Soils with unfavourable subsoil e.g. marl
Soils with low organic matter content
Soils with low water and nutrient holding capacities
Regions characterized by high rainfall
Areas where rainfall is unpredictable

[malaise]

30. A good friend used to be the Chairman

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2021, 08:04 AM - Edit history (1)

of RADA I'll speak with him on Monday

[Donkees]

36. RADA has a lot of instructive videos at radajm youtube. This one below ...

focuses on the highland region farming techniques towards the last third of the video. I found the entire video interesting, seeing how those farmers are adapting to climate change.

Best Land Husbandry Practices

[malaise]

37. Thanks

[onethatcares]

31. just began my 3rd year

of no til gardening.

We bought a house on 1 1/2 lots in the city and the soil was sand, the covering was weeds, and the only thing growing were native palm tree/bushes.

I wanted to have a decent sized garden and began researching the interwebs. There are a gazillion opinions out there but I started watching the "garden channel". The gentleman there created a food forest using techniques that worked. He layed a layer of cardboard down to smother the weeds, he had a tree service come in and dump yards of wood chips over that and began watering and working his garden out. After a short time (2 - 3 years) he began planting. Pull back the chips, plant in the dirt, sometimes he added topsoil just to give the plants something besides broken down wood chips. Slowly, the roots and the worms began turning cardboard and wood chips into soil. Just like nature intended.

I'm on my third year of following his advice. It works, Where there was sand, there's soil, not a large 12 inch depth of soil, but enough to support tomatos, eggplant, cukes, squash, lettuce, carrots, beans, sno peas, cabbage, collards, swiss chard and some strawberries. I have a separate section for pineapples of which one just started sprouting and I hope to get 5 more on top of that.

I don't til. I compost, I mulch, I save water in gallon and half gallon milk jugs, in whiskey and alcohol bottles and in 55 gallon plastic rain catchers.and use what's free. I have wildflowers and pollinator atractors.

I like what is happening. check back to eden gardening and the garden channel out for what i"m talking about and above all: peace

[malaise]

32. Great post

Thanks for this - very inspiring

[onethatcares]

33. the hardest thing to learn

is Patience.

Nature has been around a long time and knows what she's doing. Let her..

[honest.abe]

34. PhD agri guy here from the 80's.

No-till was very popular back then. It was basically planting directly into wheat stubble to preserve top soil. One big issue was weed control so no-till tended to require most herbicides. I am no longer in agriculture.. switched careers to IT about 30 years ago. So not sure the latest thinking on this.

[malaise]

35. Thanks