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(13,565 posts)AZ8theist
(5,406 posts)SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)nolabear
(41,930 posts)Sure, shes a woman and has a particular drama but its a whole lot like his.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)It's one thing to insult a woman by portraying her as Norma Desmond, but when you suggest a man is Norma Desmond, it adds the insult that he is like a woman. This implies a man being like a woman is bad. Surely we can use our creativity to come up with an insult for a man that does not also insult women.
Yet these sort of insults are so ubiquitous that I often don't even think twice about it. But when I went into Twitter to retweet that funny Norma Desmond tweet, I was jarred by seeing this reply to it, and it is very true:
Link to tweet
nolabear
(41,930 posts)mopinko
(69,981 posts)SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)mopinko
(69,981 posts)is a hang up, yes.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Please don't change the facts of what is happening here.
Response to SunSeeker (Reply #2)
CurtEastPoint This message was self-deleted by its author.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)"Jesus. It's a goddamn movie." Yes, of course it's a movie. About a woman. Why are you so angry?
TNNurse
(6,924 posts)It is making use of an overly dramatic fictional character.
It suits him, he has the same ego as the character.
Nevilledog
(50,980 posts)CurtEastPoint
(18,612 posts)can get made fun of? And it's knocking Norma Desmond's egomania.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Why choose a female egomaniac to make fun of a man?
treestar
(82,383 posts)So you can get the joke by just looking.
What male egomaniac is pictured walking in like that? The joke won't work if you use Dump himself.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Or maybe Mussolini appearing on tbe balcony.
But neither are as funny, because we think men looking like women is funny. Think about why that is.
Duppers
(28,117 posts)👍
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Are there only female characters associated with vanity and megalomania?
jaxexpat
(6,791 posts)Trumps really only slightly more functional but otherwise a good likeness. As for male characters I can think of only one except he was highly functional, George C. Scott's "Patton".
BTW, I'm a real Patton fan none-the-less.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Trump is not like Patton. He's more like Mussolini.
jaxexpat
(6,791 posts)He was well read, prized intellectual endeavors and thought love of wealth a moral weakness.
Trump has none of those qualities. What's perhaps the hardest to take is that he is less than even Mussolini.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)And Trump does not have the same ego as the Norma Desmond character. His megalomania is much more sinister and detructive. Norma only hurt herself.
Ligyron
(7,615 posts)LisaM
(27,791 posts)I think it's just fine.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2021, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Norma Desmond was delusional, not a liar.
birdographer
(1,304 posts)I didn't even think about the woman angle. I was looking at her expression, her "Oh yes, here I am! Feast your eyes on this perfection that is me!" that is so like his narcissism. I imagine he even tossed his golden locks when he arrived to be worshipped.
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2021, 06:33 PM - Edit history (1)
And I don't think Trump's narcissism is like Norma Desmond's. His is much more sinister and destructive. Norma Desmond, as delusional as she was, she would not lie about others or hurt people to elevate herself. Trump is much more akin to Mussolini.
It is not her womanhood, it is the attitude - that she and Dump are seen to share.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)In some ways, its those that can only see it as a woman / man issue, who it clouds their ability to appreciate the inference, that have a problem IMO.
I read it as an over-dramatic actor/celebrity entering a room. And really, who cares if Trump takes it as calling him effeminate? I don't see why we can't use his fear of being seen as a "girly man" against him.
Like those who are needling the Proud Boys social media sites by hashtagging #proudboys to homosexual pages. And it looks like many in the LGBTQ community are participating in that. To make the PBs uncomfortable and frustrated. One of the reasons for that is that they can't retaliate by trying the same thing to a more liberal organization, because we'd just say..."Yeah...so what, we support the LGBTQ community."
Why not use whatever weapons we have against them, for which they cannot do much about?
SunSeeker
(51,502 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2021, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)
He is a gaslighter, dangerous and surrounded by a cult of personality.
He is so much more like Mussolini. This documentary describes the cult of personality surrounding Mussolini's egotistical strong man persona:
His similarity with Trump and his followers is eerie.
I understand why portraying a bombastic liar who likes to portray himself as a macho man as instead a delusional pathetic woman would bring him down a notch, and is funny. But think about why that is funny. Would it be as funny if Trump was being compared to a male narcissistic character?
It is unfair to say that it's the people who see the sexism in this humor as being the ones "that have a problem." I do indeed "appreciate the inference." And the humor. I just also see the sexism. It is possible to see both.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)I apologize for the "have a problem" comment.
I just don't see that its worth it to argue content the shows a woman in place of a man, or vica versa.
I just watched Aidi Bryant play Ted Cruz on SNL. Kate McKinnon has done various male politician roles. And I don't give one fig if Ted Cruz is perturbed at all that he is being played by a woman, and having his own biases in his own brain, think its demeaning to him personally.
KS Toronado
(17,136 posts)BobTheSubgenius
(11,558 posts)Perhaps the classic pig on a platter with an apple in its mouth. Or maybe elsewhere. You decide.