Do we really need the Senate Parliamentarian when we have the Senate President?

[GentleAlien]

There has been historical precedent(s) as cited by Ro Khanna, where the Senate Parliamentarian was overruled by the Prez. In this age of unprecedented economic hardship and staggering income equality, is it really that radical to increase the minimum wage? Now we all know there are only *two* ways it can be done: a) via reconciliation and b) via ending the filibuster. Pelosi and Schumer realize it, not sure what's going in WH... Any comments?

[Irish_Dem]

1. Is this nation going to be governable? Or always deadlocked for one reason or another?

If a government cannot respond to a national emergency in a timely manner then we are still not governable.

The experts agree on the course of action, but we are still stymied.

[Demsrule86]

18. We have a 50 50 majority...you want more done help win elections...let's be realistic here.

[Irish_Dem]

26. That's not my point. Arcane rules never stop trillion $$ tax cuts or pieces of junk F-35s.

[Demsrule86]

28. The tax cut was done in reconciliation. The defense bill is the only bi-partisan thing that ever

passes Congress. I would like to see the filibuster gone...make Senators vote and not hide behind it. But there is no way presently to do this. We need more Senators.

[GentleAlien]

25. Doesn't seem like it's governable

Filibuster will remain, preventing Dems from pursuing their agenda. Passing progressive ideas via reconciliation seems to be a long shot too, at this point. What's left? Executive order? Apparently they last for 1,2 presidential terms, and are swiftly undone after a change-election.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Yes.

[SCantiGOP]

2. Every serious deliberative body

has an impartial, expert parliamentarian. It’s the rules themselves that are screwed up, not her interpretation.

[Fullduplexxx]

7. Right payraise for the rich from the cons ok , pay raise for the poor from the dems not ok

Just fire the parliamentarian like trent Lott did and find another more agreeable one

[SCantiGOP]

13. Or, the VP can override the Parliamentarian

I would rather use that procedure than fire someone for doing their job.

[Fullduplexxx]

15. Oooo yea I like that better

[Fullduplexxx]

17. I just heard thom hartmann saying we need to fire the parliamentarian and hire someone

Who will give us the main wage hike...

[Demsrule86]

19. I don't think we have the votes if we overrule the parlimentarian and we need get the relief

package done...get out and elect more senators in 22.

[Demsrule86]

29. Taxes can be done in reconciliation. Bush was the first to do this. The minimum wage does not

meet the requirements...neither will the voting rights bill, the immigration bill ...all sorts of things. We need more Senators who are willing to end the filibuster...we have opportunities in 22.

[Fullduplexxx]

31. Wont get the chance ... incumbent parties lose seats in the

Congressional elections

[moonscape]

3. The problem is the 50/50 Senate and

not needing to lose a single vote, and keep the 50 together as much as possible for so much that needs to be done. Alienating any one member could be disaster. There was speculation at one point in the past that Manchin might become a Republican and that would be a disaster.

We need to gain 2 seats in the Senate to be able to get rid of the filibuster.

I don’t think this is only about the Parliamentarian. Getting a bipartisan bill that includes a number of things, and compromises with a $13 min wage which Manchin would support, and even a couple/few Republicans, could be the better play. This covid relief needs to get out stat without getting derailed.

No perfect solution, that’s sure.

[Celerity]

5. At least 3 (and maybe more). Feinstein is against doing away with it as well.

[Budi]

4. Yes to your question. I'm against burning it all down or even One Single norm of our process

..in our search for something to blame.


YES. We Do Need The Parlimentarian

"In this age of unprecedented economic hardship and staggering income equality,.."


Pass the $1400 ffs, & find another legislative way to get the Min Wage thru.

They ALL knew the votes weren't there for $15.
It was evident early on.

[GentleAlien]

11. Pelosi has kept MW in the bill that just cleared the house

I think she has enough of a pulse on public sentiment to not drop the ball on this one.
As Bernie pointed out, there aren't *many* ways of doing it, only two: it's either reconciliation or end-of-filibuster!

[Demsrule86]

20. It won't happen. I can see why she left it in the house is endangered. There is a real chance the

the GOP takes back the house in 22 then we are screwed.

[AZProgressive]

6. I'll answer

Biden Can Single-Handedly Run The Reconciliation Process: Parliamentarian Experts (VIDEO)

Two experts in the arcane rules of the Senate said on Monday that, as president of the Senate, Biden has the capacity not just to overrule any ruling that the parliamentarian may make but also to cut off efforts by Republicans to offer unlimited amendments.

“Ultimately it’s the Vice President of the United States [who has the power over the reconciliation process],” Robert Dove, who served as Senate parliamentarian on and off from 1981-2001, told MSNBC this morning. “It is the decision of the Vice President whether or not to play a role here... And I have seen Vice Presidents play that role in other very important situations... The parliamentarian can only advise. It is the vice president who rules.”

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_481031

The title “Senate parliamentarian” is so distinguished that one might easily assume it dates back to the 18th century. In fact, the post was created in 1935 in revolt against John Nance Garner, the vice president who famously said his office wasn’t worth “a bucket of warm piss” and who apparently worked out his frustrations by rendering as president of the Senate questionable parliamentary rulings. Only three people held the post before Frumin and Dove’s 28-year do-si-do. According to Dove, Vice President Hubert Humphrey routinely ignored his parliamentarian’s advice. Might Vice President Joe Biden do the same with health care? Dove sees it as a “more plausible” prospect with Biden than it might be with other vice presidents because Biden (like Humphrey) is a former senator who can draw on personal familiarity with Senate procedure. He’s also (I would add) kind of a know-it-all, an annoying quality in many contexts but a potentially useful one here.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/09/romancing-alan-frumin-the-senate-parliamentarian.html

These articles are from when Biden was VP but the excerpts answers your question.

[Sgent]

8. We either follow the Parlamentarian

or wind up with Mitch as the majority leader when Manchuin switches sides.

[GentleAlien]

9. How long with this blackmail continue?

So Dems will have to continue compromising their agenda so he doesn't switch sides? Imagine how well this excuse will work in 2022?

In case of a permanent threat like this, I would say a Trumpian Populism might be the answer: I am sure folks in WV are hurting as bad as those in say MI. May be it's time to rile up public support on Manchin's home turf.

[Sgent]

12. I mean

elections have consequences. Its still better to have Chuck as majority leader because Mitch wouldn't bring anything to a vote at all. But yes, the Senate no more liberal than its 50th most liberal Senator.

[Demsrule86]

21. We have a 50 50 majority...for God's sake face facts.

[GentleAlien]

24. Firing the Parliamentarian would have shown sincerity

That Biden was al-least 'trying'. GOP did that with Bush Tax cuts. Why couldn't the Dems do it? Now both figures on the left and right are saying 'they just wanted an excuse to not raise the minimum wage, and found one'. Way to go about 2022 IMHO..

[Demsrule86]

30. I would hope with the damage caused in 08,10,14 and 16...not to mention 2000, the left would

have learned why you vote blue not matter what. We need to work hard in the midterms to elect Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

23. That is being done...but truly we don't have time...and I don't think the Parliamentarian will be

overruled period so lets get on with it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. They have different roles.

[librechik]

14. How I wish Ms Harris would overrule that parler-whosis. NOW is the time! n/t

[GentleAlien]

16. Completely agreed.. let's show some assertiveness

and make Senators vote!

[Demsrule86]

22. No and No...pass the relief bill. Minimum wage will have to wait.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

32. Every time this stunt was tried this stunt failed

Link to tweet

[GentleAlien]

33. Ok I will concede that using the precedent isn't a strong argument

I do want to use the "unprecedented times call for unprecedented measures" line.. but I know I will be accused of shifting the goal post..